Time To Upgrade

irishmotorist

Omygod...I'm so excited!

I've been threatening it for a long time, but now my job has agreed to go for the Cycle to Work scheme so I'm going to go for it and upgrade I'm pretty much decided that I'm going to get a Focus Cayo.....unless anybody here has a better suggestion for something at that price that I've overlooked??

I'll ask Wiggle about sizing but would like any opinions from here. I'm 6ft bang on so I was thinking of getting a large frame (56...5'9-6'0"). I feel reluctant to go for the bigger frame (XL/58....6'0-6'2") because I'm coming from using a comfortable feeling Sirrus (large also) and I think that going to a bigger frame would cause me too much stretch and discomfort. Any opinions on this?

I haven't bought from them before, but has anybody haggled with Wiggle or got a discount for asking for one? As an online retailer, I'm inclined to think that there won't be much joy there but you never know.

Bambaata

i thought u can only gte it from an irish retailer who is signed up to the cycle to work scheme?

Blowfish

Bambaata wrote: »

i thought u can only gte it from an irish retailer who is signed up to the cycle to work scheme?

Nah, it can come from anywhere. From here

Q. Can a bicycle be bought anywhere, e.g. online from abroad, or will it have to be bought in Ireland or from a pre-approved selection of shops? A. There are no limits as to where the bicycle should be purchased by the employer.

I've been looking at the Cayo myself too. It would be my first road bike and is miles above my skill level, but I'm attempting to justify it to myself by the fact that so far I've saved about 6k in bus/dart tickets by cycling.

72hundred

Bambaata wrote: »

i thought u can only gte it from an irish retailer who is signed up to the cycle to work scheme?

Nope. Anyone.

Aka Ishur

Lol i'm in the same situation, employer just said ok to the c2w scheme but i'm looking at the focus Culebro

Lumen

irishmotorist wrote: »

I'll ask Wiggle about sizing but would like any opinions from here. I'm 6ft bang on so I was thinking of getting a large frame (56...5'9-6'0"). I feel reluctant to go for the bigger frame (XL/58....6'0-6'2") because I'm coming from using a comfortable feeling Sirrus (large also) and I think that going to a bigger frame would cause me too much stretch and discomfort. Any opinions on this?

OK....

You can size a frame by length (for reach) or by height (for standover clearance). Due to modern compact geometry, standover is less of an issue, so generally it's best to size based on "horizontal equivalent top tube length".

One factor in determining required length is preferred saddle setback. If you like a lot of setback (generally more comfortable due to less weight on arms and hands) this will reduce your required stem length. But if you move yourself back too much (e.g. setback saddle, short stem) the handling will get worse as you will have too much weight over the rear wheel.

A second factor is reach. A comfortable, upright position will shorten your reach, so you want less top tube again, right?

So, you specify a frame for setback saddle (short) and more upright position (short again). You now have decided on a small frame.

But wait, check out the head tube! As the frame gets smaller, the head tube length decreases dramatically. So you have a nice short reach and a nice setback saddle, but you're running 10cm of drop to the bars, and your arms and neck hurt like hell.

Headset spacers to the rescue! Build up that headtube with spacers, flip the stem and you have regained the lost height.

Now you're comfortable again, but your bike looks completely crap, and your weight is rotated back over the rear again, affecting handling.

Welcome to the joy of bicycle fit. The more you learn, the less you understand.

The moral of the story: if you want something really comfortable, find something with a relatively long head tube and longer chainstays, like a Cervelo RS, except cheaper.

Let me know when you've worked it all out, thanks.

(the short answer, if you want a Cayo, is to get a 56 or 58)

Lumen

Oh yeah, one more thing.

As Sheldon points out, a significant factor in how comfortable you are on a bike is how hard you pedal.

The harder you pedal, the more weight is supported by your legs rather than your arms. This is why I find that going up hills cures any arm/shoulder ache.

So, long distance touring bikes have higher handlebars partly because the cyclist is applying less pedal force and therefore more weight is borne by the upper body.

If you want to be more comfortable you can therefore just HTFU and train more.

irishmotorist

Thanks for the info Lumen. From what you say, I think I'm still leaning towards the large rather than x-large. I have a couple of questions on some of the things you mentioned.

It sounds reasonable, but by "a lot of setback", do you mean that the saddle is adjusted further back? Or is setback where the bent knee is - which is obviously affected by how far back the saddle is? Currently on the Sirrus, the nose of the saddle looks to be about 3cm or so behind the middle of the BB and I have no idea where my knee is.

I don't want my neck and arms hurting like hell :pac: so I'd like to keep that end of things comfortable. If I'm spacering things up though and my weight is more over the back wheel, how bad would handling be? I'm happy enough descending at speed in a straight line but am not so happy with corners so I'll never be flying through them. Would handling be put off so much that balance is poor through normal cornering?

Obviously to have things perfect I should be fit properly, but general ideas on these would be appreciated and I don't mind spending time on trying them myself.

irishmotorist

Lumen wrote: »

So, long distance touring bikes have higher handlebars partly because the cyclist is applying less pedal force and therefore more weight is borne by the upper body.

Would it not be the case that if the handlebars are lower then more weight is on the upper body? I'd imagine that being lower means that your core won't be able to keep your weight, but if you're in a higher position then you could do without arms (apart from steering of course!) because you're more upright.

Lumen

irishmotorist wrote: »

Would it not be the case that if the handlebars are lower then more weight is on the upper body? I'd imagine that being lower means that your core won't be able to keep your weight, but if you're in a higher position then you could do without arms (apart from steering of course!) because you're more upright.

Sorry, my wording was ambiguous. Because the pedal force is less, the upper body bears more weight, so the bars are higher to counteract.

sy

Aka Ishur wrote: »

Lol i'm in the same situation, employer just said ok to the c2w scheme but i'm looking at the focus Culebro

Don't forget to look at this offer as the spec is excellent for the price. The bikes have a good reputation and the Sram Rival groupset with Fulcrum7 wheels is top notch for a starter bike. Decisions decisions:)

@irishmotorist The Cayo is a great bike for the money. I have the 08 model in small which they recommend for 5'5" to 5'7". I am 5' 7" and just got a longer stem 110 as opposed to the standard 90 for that size. So the large should be fine for you with the possibility of using a longer stem if necessary. By all means ask for a reduction in the price, infact it might be no harm to send a link to this forum and maybe Wiggle will offer all Boardsies a 10% or even a 5% reduction, what they call Platinum or Gold customers

irishmotorist

sy wrote: »

I have the 08 model in small which they recommend for 5'5" to 5'7". I am 5' 7" and just got a longer stem 110 as opposed to the standard 90 for that size. So the large should be fine for you with the possibility of using a longer stem if necessary.

That's good to hear. I had been considering that if the bike was a little wrong either way, then it's probably easier to make it a bit bigger rather than a bit smaller.

irishmotorist

sy wrote: »

It might be no harm to send a link to this forum and maybe Wiggle will offer all Boardsies a 10% or even a 5% reduction, what they call Platinum or Gold customers

I've mailed them to ask - personally and also for a potential group discount. I gave them the link and pointed out the good reputation that they have here and the number of people that purchase from them.

We'll see if they will!

FrankGrimes

irishmotorist wrote: »

I've mailed them to ask - personally and also for a potential group discount. I gave them the link and pointed out the good reputation that they have here and the number of people that purchase from them.

We'll see if they will!

Fair play. This forum is worth its weight in gold to Wiggle (cue flashbacks to that classic scene in The IT Crowd....'it's the Internet...it weighs nothing...Duh!!'). The forum must have generated some pretty serious dollars for Wiggle so would be great to see them recognise that and give a standing discount or once off offers every now and then, think that's what the companies on the Commercial Interactio forum do and it seems to work well for them.

irishmotorist

I've done it! Order placed so with any luck, I'll see it before I go on holidays for two weeks. Thanks for the info and help.

BTW, no word back from Wiggle yet on the possiblilty of a discounting scheme. I couldn't see a phone number on the site to call and ask, but I couldn't wait any longer - I'm sure you know how it is :pac:

Blowfish

Nice one, I'll expect a full report when you get it

irishmotorist

Not quite a full report yet, but here's what I have so far.

Just back from holidays today and my new Cayo 105 has been waiting for me since the start of my two weeks holidays (it arrived into work just after I left for hols). My first piece of advice would be to never order a bike just before you go on hols. You will think of nothing else! I got a couple of road bikes out when I was away (Lanzarote) and found them OK, but nothing amazing. They were both alu Treks with carbon forks. They were so OK, I was a bit worried that maybe I'd made a mistake going for the Cayo.

Got my Cayo anyway, assembled it and just got to take it for it's maiden spin - about 5km around the block is all so far. My initial impression? Wow! I'm coming from a Specialized Sirrus so it's a different style, shape and materials. It's much more comfortable than I even imagined - the carbon fibre really soaks the road up and just gives you a comfortable ride. It's solid feeling, and the gears change beautifully. I never thought I had a problem with the Sora gears on the Sirrus, but the 105 shows what gear changes can really be like. The handling is great - I tell it to go, and it just goes in a way that the Sirrus couldn't.

The setup feels fine so far - the saddle height that Wiggle set seems to feel OK to me, but I'll get a better impression of that over the next few days once I really get used to it.

So, just tomorrow and some commutes to get used to it during the week before unleashing it on the ROK. Nice way to break in my new wheels :cool:

I took a few pictures and will get them up to the images thread during the week hopefully!

(Thanks to all for the advice earlier...)

unionman

Good man. You could fairly wipe the floor with me already on the sirrus, I anticipate you will be feet up beer-in-hand by the time i finish the ROK!:pac:

Enjoy the new wheels.

ArraMusha

Fair play 'irishmotorist' the information posted and reviews on the cayo is excellent. I'm about to order the Cayo meself, just deciding between frame sizes (56 or 58). I emailed wiggle for some advise as I'm 6ft 1 and have an inside leg of 32" and they have various sizing charts on the site, and i'm thinking 56" but will wait to hear back from them.

The question I have for you 'irishmotorist' is did you get anything back from Wiggle? ..about the boardsie 20% discount..? or did you just get the cursed silent treatment.:pac: thanks

blorg

ArraMusha wrote: »

Fair play 'irishmotorist' the information posted and reviews on the cayo is excellent. I'm about to order the Cayo meself, just deciding between frame sizes (56 or 58). I emailed wiggle for some advise as I'm 6ft 1 and have an inside leg of 32" and they have various sizing charts on the site, and i'm thinking 56" but will wait to hear back from them.

I'm 6ft0 albeit with an inside leg of 33.75" (are you sure you measured right? it's not your trouser measurement, you know that?) and I rode a 58cm Cayo. I would have been between the 56 and 58 myself. If you do have that leg measurement you would have a much longer torso than me and would definitely be a 58cm I reckon, I think you would be very cramped on a 56. It is a compact geometry frame, there was certainly loads of room to put the saddle down from where I had it.

irishmotorist

unionman wrote: »

Good man. You could fairly wipe the floor with me already on the sirrus, I anticipate you will be feet up beer-in-hand by the time i finish the ROK!:pac:

Enjoy the new wheels.

I don't know about that but thanks . I'm interested to see what I can do on it once I get going. I did an hour or so this morning around the Phoenix Park today and it's like cycling on air

ArraMusha wrote: »

Fair play 'irishmotorist' the information posted and reviews on the cayo is excellent. I'm about to order the Cayo meself, just deciding between frame sizes (56 or 58). I emailed wiggle for some advise as I'm 6ft 1 and have an inside leg of 32" and they have various sizing charts on the site, and i'm thinking 56" but will wait to hear back from them.

The question I have for you 'irishmotorist' is did you get anything back from Wiggle? ..about the boardsie 20% discount..? or did you just get the cursed silent treatment.:pac: thanks

I went for the 56 (large). I'm 6 foot even and my inside leg is about 32 or 33 - or that's my usual for trousers anyway. I asked Wiggle for their advice and I was right on the border line between 56 and 58 when you take my height and inside leg into account. I chose the 56 because I'm coming from a relatively upright Sirrus and thought that slightly small would suit me better than slightly big - I'd worry about getting a sore back when bent over much further than I'm used to. So far so good anyway, but a few days of commuting and the ROK to hopefully confirm I went for the right thing.

With regard to the discount, they got back to me alright. They directed me towards their standard partnership scheme...here http://www.wiggle.co.uk/h/option/Partner. I mentioned it here (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055587563), but it didn't seem to be a runner....unless somebody has since had some inspiration on it??

ArraMusha

blorg wrote: »

I'm 6ft0 albeit with an inside leg of 33.75" (are you sure you measured right? it's not your trouser measurement, you know that?) and I rode a 58cm Cayo. I would have been between the 56 and 58 myself. If you do have that leg measurement you would have a much longer torso than me and would definitely be a 58cm I reckon, I think you would be very cramped on a 56. It is a compact geometry frame, there was certainly loads of room to put the saddle down from where I had it.

Thanks 'blorg', I'm measuring from base of heel to the 'family jewels'. Is that the right way? (Jaysus I didn't think I'd be asking a question like this on a Sunday:p)

Sure you know it's just that I dont want to get a over or undersized frame and would appreciate some advise. My current commuter is a hybrid 56" completely different machine to the Cayo so no comparison.
Irishmotorist is advising a 56", so its either go with that and rise the saddle, or 58 and lower.

blorg

This is the general procedure:

The procedure is as follows: Stand in an upright position, without shoes, on a hard floor, and with your feet about 25cm (10") apart. Place the spine of a book about 1.5 inches (3.5cm) wide between your legs firmly, but without causing pain. The measure is then taken vertically from floor to the edge of the book. Try to obtain accuracy to within .5 cm, but definitely within 1 cm.

Smaller frames have a greater drop from saddle to bars, could be a bit extreme. The risk with the 58 is that you might be too stretched- I was marginal there to be honest but put the saddle forward a bit with a seatpost with less layback. Last year in any case 6ft0 was the dividing line between 56 and 58 suggesting you might lean towards the bigger one.

ArraMusha

Hi, I got a mail back from wiggle advising the 56inch frame. I did a quick re-measure and i'm more of a 6 footer than 6 ft 1, so will go for the 56".

Thnaks for the advice folks.

Noticed when I checked the price that wiggle's offer of 10% discount on orders from 'Paddy-land' is finished tomorrow.;)