Is 3Ireland still alive ?

Short Grass

Has anybody heard about or seen anyone who has actually been connected to the National Broadband Scheme? if I remember correctly it was part of their (3Ireland) contract that they would have 15% of the contract completed by June. Has anybody heard a dickeybird from them ?
Perhaps they have decided to run golf tournaments instead ?
have they appled for planning for any of the 160 new masts which they intend to erect ?
So much for Ryan having the country covered entirely with broadband by September 2010.
Any satellite dishes erected yet ??

Sponge Bob

the feckin satellite is still in a shed somewhere awaiting a late 2009 launch .

the orange bits on the map are coming soon ( by end July allegedly)

http://ve.bizmaps.ie/threeireland/Pages/Public/NBSPublicPage.aspx

mike76

was talking to someone working for a subcontractor on the nbs, allegedly they are having problems with the rollout in some places and there are big penalties if the don't get the areas covered by a certain date.

If true then Ryan and his officials should do the decent thing, or with a bit of luck the electorate will get a chance to do it for them

watty

I suppose 2010 is a very late 2009.

We know that if there is honest indoor coverage measured they would need x3 as many masts. The only way they can meet the coverage is to fake it using optimistic outdoor coverage predictions.

But there is no transparency. We don't know how exactly coverage will be determined nor exactly what the penalties are. The only major loss of licence ever was Chorus's Powernet & Wireless loop phone. There have never been penalties on eircom for lack of use of their 3.5GHz National Licence. Nor has there been any consistent monitoring or penalties of other licences. Basically operators have handed back unused licenses to save money. The 1800MHz GSM is very under used. It's doubtful that if their was an independent measure ment that 3 would be in complience with their 3G licence never mind NBS rollout.

And even if coverage was perfect the system can't even meet the original tender targets.

clohamon

Short Grass wrote: »

I remember correctly it was part of their (3Ireland) contract that they would have 15% of the contract completed by June. Has anybody heard a dickeybird from them ?

None of the answers to Dail questions on this subject recently include any reference to the June milestone. I think you can assume that it won't be achieved.

The next milestone that the Minister talks about is December 2009 when 48% of EDs are to be active.

watty

Active, but real coverage ?

clohamon

Yes I take your point.

I'm taking 'active' to mean the threshold at which 3 Ireland get paid;

95% of premises 'covered' by wireless
Satellite option available.

'Covered' meaning, 1.2Mb/s , 120ms latency, 36:1 contention as measured by Analysys Mason at the base station and reported in confidence to the department.

Whether the user experience is worth a lick is, I accept, a completely different question.

watty

Though you can't measure coverage at a basestation nor for 400 Eur per ED.

nor do you "Measure" contention of the kind required. It's the ratio of number of total customers vs the number that can have the 1.2Mbps speed at once.

Not the number actually on-line. So assuming it supports ANY people at 1.2Mbps indoors at required distance, the maximum number of customers in that sector area is x36. So by definition that is not someting that matters at the start, but later.

I don't believe Comreg has ever audited this. Nor can it be enforced on a sold in a box in shop nomadic system rather than FIxed Wireless. It fails on Contention on paper before they launch even if 100% coverage.

clohamon

Damien Gallagher and David Hennessy of 3 Ireland.

17th June 2009
Its mostly sales spiel but there were a few bits of news.

• 3 target for all planning applications to be submitted by October 2009.
• All Kerry green field sites expected to go to An Bord Pleanala, so expect Kerry NBS developments to be delayed by 9 months.
• 3 required by the contract to upgrade a cell if it reaches "70% or 80% utilisation"
• Mr Hennessy believes 3 will be able to offer Skype mobile phone coverage from the NBS areas.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=BUJ20090617.xml&Ex=All&Page=2

Short Grass

It seems that Avanti's Hylas Satellite launch has now gone back to mid 2010. But by the way 3 are dragging their feet they will still probably be on time to complete the satellite part of the project !



Payload Development Issues Delay Hylas

By PETER B. de SELDING
Space News Staff Writer
posted: 19 June 2009
10:35 am ET




LE BOURGET, France — Avanti Communications' Hylas Ka-band consumer broadband satellite likely will not be ready for launch until mid-2010, a year later than planned, because of delays in development of the satellite's payload and its intended launch vehicle, the satellite's prime contractor said.

Astrium Satellites Chief Executive Evert Dudok said Astrium has encountered unexpected challenges with Hylas' flexible Ka-band payload, which is being developed with funding from the European Space Agency. The gear will make its first flight aboard Hylas.

In a June 16 briefing here at the Paris Air Show, Dudok said it is Astrium that is behind schedule on Hylas, and not the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), whose Antrix commercial arm is building the satellite's platform.

Astrium and Antrix have established a joint venture to market a line of small telecommunications satellites. The first satellite built by the new venture, Eutelsat's W2M, has been declared a total loss by Paris-based Eutelsat because of a failure of one of the two solar arrays to deploy.

While the other solar array has deployed correctly, industry officials said W2M also has encountered problems with its batteries. While the satellite is able to provide partial service, Eutelsat has declared it a total loss for insurance purposes.

Dudok said the failure was caused by a defect in the solar array drive mechanism, which orients the panels. He said this is the first time that an ISRO satellite has failed in this way. "It shows that this kind of failure can happen to anyone. Most satellite manufacturers, including Astrium, have encountered problems with their solar arrays in one form or another."

Dudok said the Hylas delay has nothing to do with W2M-related issues at ISRO or Antrix. "This is not an Antrix issue or a platform issue. It is the very innovative reconfigurable Ka-band payload. Astrium underestimated the complexity of the payload and there is a delay. We now expect to deliver [the Hylas payload] to Antrix in August."

A satellite's payload, once completed, is then mated to the platform in preparation for a battery of tests to prove its ability to perform in orbit as designed. Dudok said Hylas would be ready for launch in mid-2010.

London-based Avanti has selected the Falcon 9 rocket being developed by Space Exploration Technologies Corp. (SpaceX) of Hawthorne, Calif., to carry Hylas into orbit. Falcon 9 is also behind schedule, and SpaceX officials say they plan an inaugural flight — for an unidentified U.S. government customer — late this year.

Dudok said Astrium is assisting Avanti in finding an alternate launcher in the event Falcon 9 is not ready for commercial flights when Hylas completes its ground qualification tests.

Industry officials said it will not be easy for Avanti, a start-up satellite operator, to secure the financing needed to purchase a launch that will place Hylas in orbit before 2011. As one of the early customers for Falcon 9, Avanti paid a launch fee that is far lower than prevailing commercial launch rates, these officials said.

Avanti currently leases capacity on other operators' satellites. Its future satellite-broadband business plans are dependent on the Hylas launch.

watty

An experimental prototype satellite.

An experimental prototype Launch Rocket that hasn't flown yet.

A tiny Satellite Reseller with very little exisiting rented capacity.

I bet 3 was almost getting it free. Don't they know there are no free Lunches Launches

See what Odds WilliamHill will give you. Or if you can get get insurance

Sponge Bob

But sure no worries, in any single given Electoral District that is marked live on that map of theirs 3 have undertaken to supply 95% of households with 3G and no more than 5% of them with Satellite .

clohamon

As I understood it from the 3 guy, they don't get paid for any ED until there is a satellite option available.

PogMoThoin

They're spending the taxpayers money on billboards, there's one between Ballyvary and Bohola, Co. Mayo saying "look what we've done with the place" with the NBS logo.

cowboy1981

Sponge Bob wrote: »

But sure no worries, in any single given Electoral District that is marked live on that map of theirs 3 have undertaken to supply 95% of households with 3G and no more than 5% of them with Satellite .

Some of the areas shown as green(live) on the NBS map appear to have very low coverage levels...even if you believe 3's own coverage predictions.

Have a look at the EDs in the Slieve Bloom Mountains, near Portlaoise, which appear to have only about 50% geographic coverage, or Avoca in Wicklow, which appears to have only about 15% geographic coverage. If someone has the patience to count the houses on the OS maps, you could check whether the NBS coverage targets have been met. I doubt it somehow.

http://ve.bizmaps.ie/threeireland/Pages/Public/NBSPublicPage.aspx

...There will be a lot of people applying for that satellite solution

Their map has all the hallmarks of a last minute panic with some green ink in order to meet the end of June NBS deadline.

watty

Actually since 3 needs to do a roll out this size or larger ANYWAY, and effectively no NBS means more buisness for all the Mobile operators, it may not matter if they never get paid as it means no-one else is providing the service.

RedLedbetter

Cowboy1981, I don't believe it! I had'nt checked the 3 map in a month or so. I live in the Slieve Blooms, in Paddock which is "covered". I just checked the map there now and sure enough...... it's live just about everywhere else except in Paddock.

Guess it's back to my 19kbps landline......

cowboy1981

RedLedbetter wrote: »

Cowboy1981, I don't believe it! I had'nt checked the 3 map in a month or so. I live in the Slieve Blooms, in Paddock which is "covered". I just checked the map there now and sure enough...... it's live just about everywhere else except in Paddock.

Guess it's back to my 19kbps landline......

Don't expect NBS/3 midband to deliver anything more reliable than your dial-up.

You could try upgrading to ISDN-at least this will deliver 128kbps steady - probably a lot more reliable than 3 will be, even if the speed is low. At least you know that you can run applications like VOIP & VPN over ISDN. Alternatively, if you are not too worried about latency, you might want to try Satellite.

watty

On Wednesday, July 1, for its third mission of the year, Arianespace successfully launched into geostationary transfer orbit the largest commercial satellite ever launched, TerreStar-1, for North American operator TerreStar Networks Inc.

Meanwhile's Avanti's satellite has no completion date, no launch date, and its launcher has never flown.

For the NBS, 3 Ireland was to have started installing dishes using the Avanti Ka Service a Month ago.

With a liftoff weight of nearly 6,910 kg., TerreStar-1 is riding as a single passenger on the dedicated Ariane 5. This Space Systems/Loral-built spacecraft will operate in the 2 GHz spectrum, enabling the American telecommunications operator TerreStar Networks to provide voice, data and video communications to satellite/terrestrial mobile devices the size of a typical smart phone. TerreStar-1 is equipped with an 18-meter deployable reflector and powerful S-band feed array, and will be capable of managing some 500 beams* during an in-orbit design lifetime of more than 15 years. Its relay services are tailored to provide critical services for government, emergency responders, rural communities and commercial users throughout the United States and Canada.

(*i.e. low contention 500x 10MHz + 10MHz. The beam steering means capacity is where the users are. At 36:1 sales contention on 1Mbps per customer that is 180,000 users at least.)

The Avanti service for 3 will probably be a 70cm dish with 2 coax cables to in home modem. If it is ever succesfully deployed

In recognition of the fact that some areas will be very difficult to reach using standard infrastructure, in a limited number of cases 3 will make available a satellite product, which may cover up to 8% of the NBS areas. The satellite product will have a minimum download speed of 1mbs, a minimum upload speed of 128kbps, a maximum contention ratio of 48:1, latency of 800 milliseconds and a 11gigabit (10 down, 1 up) inclusive monthly download allowance limit.

from http://www.three.ie/nbs/faqs.htm (emphasis mine)

Since 3G coverage is 170ms typical upto 2000ms and at 250ms slower than satellilte as it has no IP acelleration / ARP cache and 50kbps to 7000kbps, but typically under 1Mps at peak time will illegal 3G "jammers" sell out in NBS areas?

Existing really available Satellite (nationally everywhere) in Ireland has 3Mbps download on basic package, but higher contention and lower cap. Next year if Eutelsat's Kasat @13E is successful (on schedule and using a well tried "firework" to launch it) then expect x10 higher Cap, 10Mbps and similar prices to NBS. I hope for sake of people in NBS areas the Eutelsat bird gets up first.

It's really illegal to buy these 3G jammers and hide them in attic so to get a subsidized install. Besides the NBS satellite isn't available and NBS won't subsidize the non-NBS satellite products. (competition law anyone?)