Bath Drug Controversey Grows

Stev_o

BBC wrote:

Bath's joint captains Michael Lipman and Alex Crockett and winger Andrew Higgins have resigned from the club.

Their decision came before they were due to appear at an internal hearing into their failure to take drug tests.

England international flanker Lipman, 29, joined Bath from Bristol in 2003 along with Higgins, 27, while centre Crockett, 27, came through the ranks.

Bath were rocked by the positive drugs test and two-year ban England prop Matt Stevens received earlier in the season.

And when reports of fighting at an end-of-season party and alleged drug taking further tarnished their image they were keen to act decisively.

Bath chief executive Bob Calleja launched the investigation when a number of the squad were involved in a fracas with Harlequins players in London on Sunday, 10 May, the day after their Guinness Premiership semi-final defeat by Leicester.

Calleja said in a statement on the club's website: "Michael Lipman, Alex Crockett and Andrew Higgins had been required to appear at an internal disciplinary hearing today to address the failure on three occasions to take a drugs test following allegations surrounding player conduct on Sunday, 10 May.

"Immediately before the hearings were due to take place the players resigned from the club with immediate effect. The club regards this as an internal matter and intends to make no further comment."

The Rugby Football Union has asked Bath for details of their internal investigation and could take action against the players.

A statement read: "The RFU Disciplinary Officer will review all the information before deciding if there is a broader charge for these players to answer."

Australian-born Lipman has 10 England caps to his name and has played 127 games for Bath.

Crockett, who has played for England Saxons, represented the club in 125 games scoring 21 tries, while Higgins scored 28 times in 111 appearances for Bath.

The trio follow Justin Harrison in leaving the club. The 35-year-old former Australia international left Bath "by mutual consent" shortly after Calleja launched the internal investigation into the end-of-season fracas in London.

Having signed prop David Wilson, number eight Ben Skirving and former player Olly Barkley, coach Steve Meehan had suggested he was set to bring in just one more player before the new campaign.

But with Lipman, Crockett and Higgins following Harrison out of the club and South African fly-half Butch James sidelined by a knee ligament injury, Meehan now has significant rebuilding to do ahead of the new campaign.

Seems mad really and it's beyond obvious that they'v been doing drugs but the question remains how the will they be punished now that they'v quit, would it still be a RFU matter or a police one?

danthefan

I'd guess there's very little the police can do, and anyway admitting to prior drug use isn't a crime.

If they're found to have taken drugs though their rugby careers are as good as over. If they don't test positive then they'll be at new clubs by the start of next season.

RuggieBear

lads, if this is to be discussed can it be done in a civil manner please.

thomond2006

RuggieBear wrote: »

lads, if this is to be discussed can it be done in a civil manner please.

Sorry Ruggie.

It is a shame that it's the joint captains who are involved. I'd say there are more culprits than those three and Matt Stevens tbh.

Maybe Stevens was covering for them? :eek::eek:

Stev_o

danthefan wrote: »

I'd guess there's very little the police can do, and anyway admitting to prior drug use isn't a crime.

If they're found to have taken drugs though their rugby careers are as good as over. If they don't test positive then they'll be at new clubs by the start of next season.

Well im presuming that they won't be able to play in England now id say the RFU would make sure of that but i wouldn't be surprised if they headed to France.

danthefan

Stev_o wrote: »

Well im presuming that they won't be able to play in England now id say the RFU would make sure of that but i wouldn't be surprised if they headed to France.

On what grounds? If they test positive for drugs then sure, if they don't...?

Stev_o

danthefan wrote: »

On what grounds? If they test positive for drugs then sure, if they don't...?

Avoiding drug testing would be a huge issue with them id imagine plus would give a very negative message around to every player that if they avoid a drugs test they can get away with it, you know?

Chucky the tree

I dont think the RFU can do anything. I doubt many GP clubs would go near him though. They must of been horsing it into them if they still dont want to do a test.

danthefan

Stev_o wrote: »

Avoiding drug testing would be a huge issue with them id imagine plus would give a very negative message around to every player that if they avoid a drugs test they can get away with it, you know?

Yeah that's true actually. There are conflicting reports about now, some stating they had taken tests. Who really knows what the **** is going on.

Bad state of affairs for the game anyway.

d-gal

Is it thought to be the same drugs similar to Matt Stevens or a more performance enhancing drug?

Chucky the tree

It was an internal drug's test and they were perfectly within there right's to refuse it as the season is over.

d-gal wrote: »

Is it thought to be the same drugs similar to Matt Stevens or a more performance enhancing drug?

Recreational.

danthefan

d-gal wrote: »

Is it thought to be the same drugs similar to Matt Stevens or a more performance enhancing drug?

It's to do with an end of season night out in London, apparently they ended up in the same bar as Quins, a fight broke out, and few of them allegedly took drugs. Justin Harrison resigned from the club immediately afterwards.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It was an internal drug's test and they were perfectly within there right's to refuse it as the season is over.

Didn't coincide with WADA regulations or something.

anonymous_joe

I've never understood the hysteria about recreational drug taking amongst sports stars.

I mean, it's not cheating, and Christ, there's a lot of people in the stands who've probably taken drugs before. Why are the players held up to such a ludicrously high standard?

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I've never understood the hysteria about recreational drug taking amongst sports stars.

I mean, it's not cheating, and Christ, there's a lot of people in the stands who've probably taken drugs before. Why are the players held up to such a ludicrously high standard?

Because drugs are illegal and these guys are role models you can't send out the message "Rugby supports recreational drug taking" now can you?

anonymous_joe

Stev_o wrote: »

Because drugs are illegal and these guys are role models you can't send out the message "Rugby supports recreational drug taking" now can you?

They're not role models, they're professionals!

I hate that part of sports. They're paid to play rugby, not to raise the children of Bath. It's the job of parents, and not rugby players, to teach kids not to take drugs.

danthefan

anonymous_joe wrote: »

They're not role models, they're professionals!

I hate that part of sports. They're paid to play rugby, not to raise the children of Bath. It's the job of parents, and not rugby players, to teach kids not to take drugs.

It's not something either the clubs or governing bodies want to be associated with, and I don't blame them at all.

anonymous_joe

danthefan wrote: »

It's not something either the clubs or governing bodies want to be associated with, and I don't blame them at all.

Well I can understand that, but it seems mad to me that everyone's basically going loco over something that's so endemic in society.

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well I can understand that, but it seems mad to me that everyone's basically going loco over something that's so endemic in society.

Because it's illegal, i thought the whole drug taking part was fairly wrong and obvious.

anonymous_joe

Stev_o wrote: »

Because it's illegal, i thought the whole drug taking part was fairly wrong and obvious.

Yeah, but a huge chunk of society does it...

leeroybrown

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Yeah, but a huge chunk of society does it...

How does that make it acceptable? They get away with it because they don't get caught. Any professional athlete who knows that these substances are illegal and could be found in their system as part of a drug testing scheme yet still uses these them is an fool at best.

Also, it's important to note that cocaine is actually treated as a performance enhancing drug for testing purposes as it is a stimulant.

anonymous_joe

leeroybrown wrote: »

How does that make it acceptable? They get away with it because they don't get caught. Any professional athlete who knows that these substances are illegal and could be found in their system as part of a drug testing scheme yet still uses these them is an fool at best.

Also, it's important to note that cocaine is actually treated as a performance enhancing drug for testing purposes as it is a stimulant.

It doesn't make it acceptable, but pillorying people for doing something that a huge proportion of the population does in the same context (getting out of their mind and starting fights, I love how we condemn them for taking cocaine but not for starting fights) is so bloody unnecessary. They're paid to play rugby, their private lives shouldn't really matter.

And cocaine's a stimulant, but would it really improve performance?

Stealdo

anonymous_joe wrote: »

And cocaine's a stimulant, but would it really improve performance?

I'm sure it wouldn't, but I'd be pretty certain that it would negatively affect it. I think that if as a club/union you invest a hell of a lot of money in either the development of a player or in bringing them in, and then in paying their wages and their performance depends completely on their physical condition then you're entitled to insist that they are not putting this crap into their bodies.

danthefan

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well I can understand that, but it seems mad to me that everyone's basically going loco over something that's so endemic in society.

I haven't seen anyone going loco in this thread anyway.

What do you think should happen to rugby players who test positive for cocaine, out of interest?

anonymous_joe

Stealdo wrote: »

I'm sure it wouldn't, but I'd be pretty certain that it would negatively affect it. I think that if as a club/union you invest a hell of a lot of money in either the development of a player or in bringing them in, and then in paying their wages and their performance depends completely on their physical condition then you're entitled to insist that they are not putting this crap into their bodies.

Wonder would they care if they'd been drunk rather than coked out of it?

Stev_o

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Wonder would they care if they'd been drunk rather than coked out of it?

No cause alcohol is legal and has a long history with rugby.

thomond2006

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I've never understood the hysteria about recreational drug taking amongst sports stars.

I mean, it's not cheating, and Christ, there's a lot of people in the stands who've probably taken drugs before. Why are the players held up to such a ludicrously high standard?

anonymous_joe wrote: »

They're not role models, they're professionals!

I hate that part of sports. They're paid to play rugby, not to raise the children of Bath. It's the job of parents, and not rugby players, to teach kids not to take drugs.

Yeah Joe.

Maybe Tommy Tiernan was onto something when he suggested hosting a steroid olympics. :rolleyes:

anonymous_joe

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yeah Joe.

Maybe Tommy Tiernan was onto something when he suggested hosting a steroid olympics. :rolleyes:

But it's not steroids they took.

And tbh, I won't watch the Olympics until:

1. They're all on drugs
2. They find a way to stop drug cheating
3. They become interesting.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yeah Joe.

Maybe Tommy Tiernan was onto something when he suggested hosting a steroid olympics. :rolleyes:

anonymous_joe wrote: »

But it's not steroids they took.

You get my point though.

Photojoe

Stev_o wrote: »

Because it's illegal, i thought the whole drug taking part was fairly wrong and obvious.

So should every single employee be drug tested and fired if they are taking recreation drugs? Why should it be any different for pro sports players?

danthefan

Photojoe wrote: »

So should every single employee be drug tested and fired if they are taking recreation drugs? Why should it be any different for pro sports players?

Being tested for drugs is not especially uncommon when starting a job, especially in the USA. I'm sure plenty of companies would fire you too if you were caught taking cocaine.

But most importantly: because they are the rules, and are most likely condition of their contracts. Nobody is forcing them to be professional sports players.

Chucky the tree

Photojoe wrote: »

So should every single employee be drug tested and fired if they are taking recreation drugs? Why should it be any different for pro sports players?

Certain job's require drug testing and if you fail you'll be fired so it's not professional sports men are the only ones tested.

anonymous_joe

danthefan wrote: »

Being tested for drugs is not especially uncommon when starting a job, especially in the USA. I'm sure plenty of companies would fire you too if you were caught taking cocaine.

But most importantly: because they are the rules, and are most likely condition of their contracts. Nobody is forcing them to be professional sports players.

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Certain job's require drug testing and if you fail you'll be fired so it's not professional sports men are the only ones tested.

Some not all.

Assuming you lads drink a bit, would you work in a job if you could be fired for going out on the tear?

I mean, it's ok to play in the Guinness Premiership, but other mind effecting substances are a no no? Talk about hypocrisy.

Anyway, I'm guessing it's not so much the drugs as an excuse to get rid of certain players, for whatever reason.

Chucky the tree

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Some not all.

Assuming you lads drink a bit, would you work in a job if you could be fired for going out on the tear?

I mean, it's ok to play in the Guinness Premiership, but other mind effecting substances are a no no? Talk about hypocrisy.

Anyway, I'm guessing it's not so much the drugs as an excuse to get rid of certain players, for whatever reason.

No I'd be fairly miffed for doing something that's legal in my spare time. However I people who gotten in trouble in jobs due to drink and coming in work in a heap or late etc.

It's not hypocrisy since one if illegal and the other isn't. The player's are the one's who resigned and refused to take a drugs test so I dont think it's being used as an excuse to get rid of them.

anonymous_joe

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No I'd be fairly miffed for doing something that's legal in my spare time. However I people who gotten in trouble in jobs due to drink and coming in work in a heap or late etc.

It's not hypocrisy since one if illegal and the other isn't. The player's are the one's who resigned and refused to take a drugs test so I dont think it's being used as an excuse to get rid of them.

Ah I know they resigned themselves, but the entire situation's a bit of a clusterfúck.

I don't think it's right for them to have done something illegal, quite the opposite, I just dislike the extra condemnation they receive because it was drugs. Would we really care if they'd be fuelled by drink? To the same degree?

Junior

Lads,

Settle down a little, no need to try tear the head off Joe, I understand what he's saying at the end of the day the public who will judge these players do the same as them every Saturday night the country over. And therefore is it not double standards of us to hold them to a standard 'we' don't keep.

However, on the other hand they are professional sportsmen and there are rules with regarding drugs be they 'legal' or 'illegal' drugs, and in some sports like cycling once you are UCI Carded (basically once you are say at academy level) you have to let your whereabouts be known to the UCI for random tests, you cannot be anymore than 20 miles from that location. If you miss tests you get a two year ban, simple as that.

But at the end of the day they are not performance enhancing drugs and should be dealt accordingly, this is a bit of a storm in the teacup. However players refusing to do drug tests because the season is over is something I'd be raising a storm over.