IMRA Wiclow Round

Enduro

For those of you who don't read the IMRA thread, the IMRA Wiclow Round is a long distance running challenge in the Wicklow mountains. The basic details of the challenge are outlined here.

Yesterday (30th May, 2009), I set out to do the round. It is a requirement of the round that the results be posted, along with all the split times at the nominated peaks. (I've manually calculated the stage times, so let me know if there are mistakes). So, here are my splits (stage names with a * include a logistics stop in the stage time):

Checkpoint|Time (Actual)|Stage time
Start|4:45:00 am|0
Kippure|5:20|35
Carrigavore*|6:14|54
Gravale|6:34|20
Duff Hill|6:52|18
East Top|7:11|19
Mullaghcleevaun|7:24|13
Moanbane|7:50|26
Silsean|8:00|10
Oakwood*|9:17|1:17
Table Mountain|10:06|49
Camenbologue|10:18|12
Lugnaquilla|11:01|43
Corrigasleggaun|11:16|15
Carrawaystick|11:31|15
Drumgoff*|12:13|42
Mullacor|1:07|54
Derrybawn|1:33|26
Camederry*|2:43|1:10
Tonelagee*|3:44|1:01
Scarr*|4:46|1:02
Knocknacloughoge|5:52|1:06
Lugalla|6:23|31
Djouce*|7:32|1:09
War Hill|7:51|19
Tonduff North|8:21|30
Prince Williams Seat*|9:52|1:31
Knocknagun|10:04|12
Finish|10:38:45 pm| 34


The overall time to complete the round was 17:53:45. This is a new record. The previous record was set less than 24 hours earlier!!

The two big variables, in my opinion, for doing the round are weather and ground conditions (Dryness and vegetation growth).

The weather on the day was excellent. There was some early morning fogbanks around, which restricted visibilty on most of the peaks as far as East Top. After that the day was clear bright and Sunny. Temperatures seemed to be quite high through the day. However there was quite a strong breeze on the ridges and mountain tops which regulated the temperature nicely.

The ground still retained a lot of water from previous weeks, although there was a lot of dried out stretches as well. Overall the this was reasonably favourable and didn't adversly affect the time in any major way. The vegetation height was well on the way to being annoying, to the point where it will soon begin to seriously affect the possibility of doing fast times on the moutain. The vegetation certainly slowed me down on several legs.


As ever, if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask away and I'll try to answer them.

I'll post some thoughts and comments later...

fergalr

You're a legend, Enduro, congratulations! That'll take some time to beat...

sean_d

Congratulations Enduro, thats a feat that most of us can only aspire to

Zuppy

I am off to find a map, a very big map. WOW!

Zuppy

Ok a few questions for whenever your good for them. I am conscious your training for whatever tickles your fancy next.

1. Did you have to carry all your gear or could you resupply fluids at the logistical stops (not really enough of them)?
2. Food? Solid or gel/fluids
3. How did sunrise look?
4. At the finishline, elated or just dog tired?

Odysseus

Congrats, that's a great time for that type of terrain.

Supercell

Simply amazing run Enduro, I'm in awe, total awe, its going to be a long long time before that time is beaten I think.

earlyevening

Awesome. Well done. Yet another stupendous running achievement.

BeepBeep67

+1 Superb - great running!

Enduro

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

1. Did you have to carry all your gear or could you resupply fluids at the logistical stops (not really enough of them)?
2. Food? Solid or gel/fluids
3. How did sunrise look?
4. At the finishline, elated or just dog tired?

Logistics of carrying gear was totally up to myself. The only constants on the round were my mobile phone and some bog-roll in my pockets. On the first leg over Kippure to the Sally Gap I carried nothing else. At the Sally Gap I picked up my rucksack (a 32 litre OMM bag), which had some food in the side pockets, a super-lightweight jacket, and half filled 2l Camelback. That stayed with me for most of the rest of the run, and was mainly used for re-supplying food and liquids. I dropped it off at the support car (and picked up a small headtorch) before commencing my run up to Prince William's Seat. Logistics stops were used everywhere that the route crossed a road. Sometimes there were large gaps, particularly in the earlier sections. I had the mobile phone with me (for the first time on an ultra run for me) to co-ordinate with the logistics crew in case of any issues.

I reckon I didn't eat too much. As usual, I had far more prepared than I actually used. I had prepared 10 small brioche rolls filled with Nutella type spread (ate 4), 6 rolls filled with cream cheese and smoked ham (ate 3), 3 bannanas (ate 1), lots and lots of chocolate bars (ate about 4), two large bags of fruit jellies (ate about 10 jellies in total). I also used the mobile to request the support crew to get me a bag of chips in the Glencormac Inn at the Glenmalure checkpoint, which they did (special order at midday), and ate those heading away from there. Drinkwise, I had a 2l bottle of Coke, which was used at every logistics stop. I also drank 3 bottles of lucozade isotonic, a 500ml lidl yop-like fruit drink, and a 300ml smoothie (yum). No power drinks, bars or gels were used. I prefer to use "real" food when possible.

Sunrise looked awesome, although I had to turn around to see it as it was directly behind me as I climbed Kippure. It was one of those burning dark red ones that you get when its piercing fog banks, and of course the dynamic fog banks in the mountains add greatly to the atmosphere. I had Wagner in my head looking at it (Think the end of Excalibur)

At the finish I was oddly calm and not anywhere near as tired as I expected to be. The calmness probably came from the fact that I had been projecting finishing times for hours beforehand and setting targets for myself, the last of which was to finish in under 18 hours, and I knew I was going to do that reasonably comfortably with about 30 minutes to go. The lack of exhaustion is much harder to explain. Normally after being on my feet for so long I'd just collapse on the ground immediately at the first opportunity. but this time I wasn't even too worried about sitting down, or getting food or drink. Maybe I'm adapting to running for 18 hours :eek:. Probably calm satisfaction describes my state at the end.

Enduro

From the main IMRA thread:

The Round was revised in order to ensure it was a feasible challenge for a wide number of people. The creators did not intend it to be only within the realm of a very select elite (as the original 27 peak version probably would have been) but rather more like the Bob Graham which has more than a 1000 finishers. It may, in reality, be more like the Ramsay Round or the Paddy Buckley Round which have been completed by very few.

I now think that to finish within the defined 24 hour period will be quite a hard challenge for most people, so I think that the above sentiment is correct.

The round originally had 3 target levels of performance, which were to finish in under 12 hours, under 16 hours, and under 24 hours, if I recall correctly (they're not on the website anymore). After my running it myself I now think that under 12 hours can't be done, under 16 hours is probably do-able by top class athletes in very favourable conditions (but I wouldn't be surprised if this was never done), and under 24 hours is a very fine achievment indeed.

Enduro

Also, from the main IMRA thread:

lol at both SJ and Enduro. I'm not sure if I'm more impressed at you talking on the phone while running, or that you got reception in the mountains.

Well done to both Enduro and Moire on some terrific running.

Is there much strategy in choosing the route or is it pretty well defined by the terrain (and the rules)?

Reception is mostly good up on the mountains in Wicklow. Isolated valleys would be more likely to be mobile dead zones, I would say.

The rules only dictate the checkpoints to hit. Routes between are totally up to the individual. Where possible I would follow defined paths that hillwalkers have eroded in over the years. Quite a lot of the route was open country though. Being a clear bright day (That was one the main reasons for picking the day) I mostly didn't need to use a map or compass, and could simply do "head up" navigation and see where I was going to and pick out the best path through the terraine. On a lot of the non-tracked mountains picking the best line through the vegetation will be the biggest single factor on speed. I would have known a very high percentage of the route beforehand from having been there before, and had spent several hours looking over maps the day before to familiarise myself with my memory of the routes, and all the options available to me.

A few of the legs had at least two possible route choices. These included coming off Kippure (down the road, or straight line accross open country), Silsean to Oakwood, Carrawaystick to Glencree, Camaderry to Wicklow Gap (road versus straighter lines), Scarr to Knocknaclashogue, Lugalla to Djouce, and the biggest choice of all: Tonduff to Prince William's Seat. I had worked out 4 possible routes for that leg using all available maps, and in the end did a different variation again on the day.

donothoponpop

It's a fantastic thing that you've done; that time will take some beating. What a weekend- Moire finally completing the round, then you setting such a time. As a very average hill runner who lives in Wicklow, its great to be able to share these hills with so many dedicated athletes.

sean_d

No problem if its being kept a trade secret or anything, but just out of interest, which way did you take from Tonduff to PW?

Raighne

Enduro wrote: »

From the main IMRA thread:



I now think that to finish within the defined 24 hour period will be quite a hard challenge for most people, so I think that the above sentiment is correct.

The round originally had 3 target levels of performance, which were to finish in under 12 hours, under 16 hours, and under 24 hours, if I recall correctly (they're not on the website anymore). After my running it myself I now think that under 12 hours can't be done, under 16 hours is probably do-able by top class athletes in very favourable conditions (but I wouldn't be surprised if this was never done), and under 24 hours is a very fine achievment indeed.

That's very interesting and based on yours and Moire's times, it would be very hard to imagine someone breaking 12. That system was put in place when the Round was very theoretical though and I think the creators scrapped it when it became apparent that just doing it would be hard for most people.

The BG has been run in sub-13 hours and a few times in sub-15 but it seems very hard to compare. The BG may be a bit longer and has more climb and more peaks. On the other hand it features better trails, and a lot of the peaks are on ridges where you literally get "2 and more for the price of 1" (sometimes as much a 5 or 6 peaks a "lumped together"). On the Wicklow Round it seems to be 2 lumped together on a few occasions, at most.

On the other hand the BG has several passages of very dangerous terrain that the WR doesn't have (scree, technical climbs, exposed ridges). So the comparison is hard for anyone who hasn't run both.

I suggest Enduro or Moire run the BG later this year so we can compare and settle the matter once and for all ;-)

Also a crazy thought: a few people have run all three British Rounds within one summer. Imagine the preparations for doing all 4?

asimonov

Another champion performance enduro! Inspiring stuff for everyone, thanks.

jeffontour

Great news and a phenomenal time. As ever setting a stupendously high bar.

copacetic

great run, interesting info on the food etc. What about clothing? what shoes and did you wear shorts and singlet or are tights the way to go for some protection from the heather etc on untrodden paths?

Enduro

sean_d wrote: »

No problem if its being kept a trade secret or anything, but just out of interest, which way did you take from Tonduff to PW?

I took the road route variation. Headed westish towards the military road, hit it just above where it S-bends neat upper lough Bray. Intentention was to run all the way to the Oldboleys forest entrance and run the lower track to the point where it is within 100 metre of the peak. However running along the road I saw that there was freshly felled forest with a fireroad running quite close to the track, and figured it might be quicker to get to that rather than rake the road climb up and around. So I went past the Glencree centre, and ran down to theTonygarrow forest entrance, up the fireroad, cut up along a river in the fresh felled forest and popped out onto the track there, then carried on as planned. I reckon that gained a few minutes by using roads and fireroads more effectively. It was very much a case of sight-navigating.

However, if I was to do it again, I reckon I would take a different route. There are a few candidates, and the one that looks most interesting to me would require a fair bit of pre-recceing. (I did no on-the-ground preparation for this attempt at the round).

Enduro

Raighne wrote: »

The BG has been run in sub-13 hours and a few times in sub-15 but it seems very hard to compare. The BG may be a bit longer and has more climb and more peaks. On the other hand it features better trails, and a lot of the peaks are on ridges where you literally get "2 and more for the price of 1" (sometimes as much a 5 or 6 peaks a "lumped together"). On the Wicklow Round it seems to be 2 lumped together on a few occasions, at most.

On the other hand the BG has several passages of very dangerous terrain that the WR doesn't have (scree, technical climbs, exposed ridges). So the comparison is hard for anyone who hasn't run both.

I suggest Enduro or Moire run the BG later this year so we can compare and settle the matter once and for all ;-)

Also a crazy thought: a few people have run all three British Rounds within one summer. Imagine the preparations for doing all 4?

I actually know very little about the BG round, although I did just have a quick google to check it out. It does at first glance appear to me that the BG is less up and downy than the Wicklow round. But, I agree that only someone who's done them both could really say how they compare. Would anyone like to sponser an Irish athlete to be the first to do both? :D

I reckon I could run all 4 in a summer without too much of a problem, but only by focussing on them exclusively. I've already put in a fair few big runs this year and we're not halfway through yet!

Enduro

copacetic wrote: »

great run, interesting info on the food etc. What about clothing? what shoes and did you wear shorts and singlet or are tights the way to go for some protection from the heather etc on untrodden paths?

I started out wearing my Asics trail shoes, as the first leg before the fist available logistics was kippure, which has a long double track leading in, and a long road run on the way out. The Asics are a nice balance between road-trainers and pure fell-running shoes. I had several pairs of shoes on standby, and had intended to switch to Inov8s at the Sally Gap. However, as it happens, I never bothered changing shoes for the rest of the day. I didn't feel the need to in the end (and its a lot of hassle to change shoes). The Asics were a good enough choice.

I wore my trusty old reliable Patagonia shorts. These are probably as much lightweight trekking shorts as running shorts. They have 2 big pockets, which is why I wore them. I kept my phone and food supplies in the pockets. Its very easy to grab food from pockets. I didn't bother with leggings as the forecast was so good (I'd be the first to change to leggings as soon as the weather changes). I wasn't too worried about bashing through the heather in shorts. Its a hazard of the trade! I got plenty of scratches etc through the day, but nothing I'd notice. Only a temperature drop would have gotten me to change to leggings (never happened).

I started out wearing a long sleeved Aldi winter running top. At the second logistics stop, as the sun was starting to really generate some heat for the day, I switched over to what I call my sleevless t-shirt, which is a technical top I got from my first 24 hour world champs in Tiawan. Its not quite as flimsey as a singlet, but its good for hot weather running none the less. (I don't really like singlets, to be honest). I switched back to the aldi top on the last leg at the Glencree centre, as the sun was on its way down.

sean_d

Enduro wrote: »

I took the road route variation...

Thanks - had been speculating (both previously and today) with fergalr over which is the best option here, but always very interested to see what the elites would do.

Enduro

Some notes and musings:

Doing the round this year was pretty much an aspiration rather than a target. I'd be happy to let it slip another year, especially after everything I've done so far this year. Still, I would grab an opportunity if it came my way. In my mind there is a very narrow season in which the round can be done optimally. The weather, the lenght of the days, and the growth of the vegetation on the ground lead me to believe that May-June is probably the best time to attempt it.

I had further narrowed this by doing a 24 hour run a month ago, so leaving a "shadow" of recovery time behind. Its also a busy time of the year for potential events. I had considered running the Cork City Marathon, as I hadn't run a marathon in years and that would be the nearest I have to a home marathon. But a small injury incurred a few weeks ago made me park that idea. I was also commited to running at least 2 legs of the Wicklow Way Relay next weekend, but the team fell apart when one of the key runners got injured.

It was only on Wednesday that the thought really started to enter my head that this weekend was the opportunity to do the round. Even at that I was thinking more of Monday. But the weather forecast and support crew availabilty made Saturday look better. It was only on Thursday evening that I 100% decided that I was doing it, as I had got enough support to make it feasable. A big thanks to Kate and Bob there. They were the key people in making this happen.

Most of the attempts so far seem to have involved a lot of preparation, from what I can tell. This has involved specific training, route scouting, setting target split times etc. I didn't do any of that. I basically just decided to give it a go, knowing that with my ultra-running and mountain running ability I would be able to make it around physically, and that with my route finding and navigation experience that I would be able to find a good enough route, even if it might be sub-optimal.

My thinking was that even in the worst case scenario I would still put in a reasonable enough time, and that I would learn more by actually doing the thing than any amount of theorising (A good lesson from ultra-running). I would definitely figure out which parts of the route would need more scouting for better routes, and how to adjust my pace to get a more optimal time. So, for me this was a straightforward risk free no pressure fling at the thing!

As it happens it all worked out quite well. Pacing was good. I finished in much better shape than I would have thought possible. If I was to do it again I would obviously push it a bit harder (nothing to loose by trying), but now I have a better idea of the best places to do that.

There are 3 or 4 legs where I would look again at the route choice. If I was to do it again I'd go out and do some timed runs on the routes to see how they compare. Overall though, I don't think that there is an enormous amount of time to be gained with better routing. At most an hour, but I would say in reality somewhat less than that.

The obvious question to arise from the approach I took is how good/beatable is the time. My own (short, for the moment) answer to that is that it is a pretty good time, but not a brilliant time. Its definitely beatable.


A few points of Note:

I didn't make any predictions for myself for either the whole route or any section of it. I just ran it all on "feel" on the day. One of my friends (Hi Berndt!) apparently predicted I'd do it in 18 hours. Well done! I hope he bought a lotto ticket that evening

The way the route is specified would lead you to believe that Drumgoff is the halfway point. About the only prediction I made before the run, from looking at the maps, was that Glendalough was much more likely to be the real halfway point, due to the nature of the route. As it turns out, that too was an accurate prediction. It certainly felt that way on the day, and the split times would seem to line it up as being the halfway point in time terms.

The second half of the route is much harder than the first half. The mountains are more "up and downy", meaning that there is more height lost between them. There also tends to be a wider route choice, and more occurances of non-straight line routes. The nasty terraine is also much more prevalent on the second half of the route. All this probably contributes to the attrition rate of round attempts.

Krusty_Clown

Well done Enduro. An outstanding run. That's two food cravings in your last two races (Macdonalds milk-shake and a bag of chips). The food of champions.

So how come with a minor injury you'd discard the idea of running a marathon, and instead attempt something like the round? Is it the repetitive stress of a road race, or are you just a bit mad? Any idea what the total distance you covered would have been?

Enduro

sean_d wrote: »

Thanks - had been speculating (both previously and today) with fergalr over which is the best option here, but always very interested to see what the elites would do.

For your info, Moire did the full road variation.

Enduro

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Well done Enduro. An outstanding run. That's two food cravings in your last two races (Macdonalds milk-shake and a bag of chips). The food of champions.

So how come with a minor injury you'd discard the idea of running a marathon, and instead attempt something like the round? Is it the repetitive stress of a road race, or are you just a bit mad? Any idea what the total distance you covered would have been?

McDonalds in the Nutgrove centre is closed at 11:15pm on a bank holiday saturday... there's another piece of information I picked up on the day

The minor injury was cleared to my satisfaction by the start of last week, and wedesday's hill-run was the confirmation of that for me. By then it was too late to think about doing Cork again. And yes, I reckon a faster race on road would be more likely to make the injury flare up again. I've no idea what distance I covered. I didn't have any tracking device with me. I'd be inclined to agree with Adrian Tucker's observations after his round attempt that the actual distance covered on the ground is likely to be about 130km. But that's only one part of the difficulty (Height gain and loss, and terraine are the other big factors)

beertons

Inspiring stuff man. Your food/drink intake was a good read. The heat must have been unreal. I tip my hat to you!

donothoponpop

Three more imra regulars are attempting the Wicklow Round, starting tomorrow Friday at 2:30am http://imra.ie/forum/topic/id/1747/ best of luck with it lads.
I was up by Ballinastoe Woods yesterday evening, on a lovely clear evening, and could see the huge extent of peaks that comprise the WR, it was truely awe-inspiring.

donothoponpop

The three boys are well on their way, having started early this morning, they're gone back past the Wicklow Gap on the return journey. The weather looks perfect for the final part of their Challenge.

donothoponpop

Just for an update- they're about an hour ahead of their schedule, mist and rain are starting to come now, and the temperature is dropping. Sore and bloodied knees have been dismissed, and the three of them are in good spirits, with the scent of home in the air, before the setting sun.

donothoponpop

19h 35m 25s ! Well done to Jason Reid, Paul Mahon, and Paul Nolan, on completing the Wicklow Round, "shattered, sore, but very happy"!:D

Who's next?!?

Slogger Jogger

Well done to the lads. I look forward to the colourful report which will result from it. 3 successful rounds in a week. Fabulous.

Hard Worker

Well done lads.
I think there's another attempt next weekend.

donothoponpop

Some great photos of this attempt http://www.pbase.com/forrest5000/wicklowround2009

donothoponpop

Paul Nolan's account of the Wicklow Round here

Jason Reid's here

Hard Worker

Adrian Tucker set off on a solo attempt of the Wicklow Round yesterday at 1.47pm. I met him at the Upper car park in Glendalough, 10 hours and 37 minutes into the event. He is 44 minutes ahead of his predicted time and is in good shape.

Peterx

congratulations to Adrian!

Hard Worker

Adrian's finish time was 22 hours, 18 minutes and 45 seconds. He lost a few minutes during the dark hours but still ended up inside his predicted time of 22 hours 30.
I think I'm more knackered than him.:)

donothoponpop

Old Moore's Almanac will tell us that early sightings of Wicklow Rounders portend great summer weather. Six so far this year, thats incredible!

Enduro

A big well done to Adrian (and support!). He is a very able ultra runner, and one of the true nice guys. I'm absolutely delighted to see him do so well, particularly after having a tough time during his first attempt earlier in the year.

donothoponpop

Adrian has posted a fascinating report of his successful attempt on the imra forum http://www.imra.ie/leagues/view/id/10/year/2009/ . What makes this a really great read is that he can contrast with his earlier truncated attempt. Well done to the man.