Keith Earls, is he ready yet??

kopykat

First of all congratulations are due to all the irish players who made the lions tour to south africa, the munster team for winning the magners league and the leinster team for winning the heinken cup.all in all this season has been a sucess for irish rugby, proven by their grand slam win, however one thing that does bother me was the appeance of keith earls with the lions.this guy has barely played with ireland before yet the lions team decided to pick him.it showed in the game against the royal xv that he is not ready for international level yet,never mind lions tests,his mistakes were too basic,his handling was a disiaster and his attempt to catch a high ball was pathetic for a professional (first rule of catching is keep our elbows together),i am just wondering,how can this lions tour be any way beneficial to the young keith earls as so far it has only shown him up?

RuggieBear

it might be too much too soon but i prefer to think (hope?) he was just nervous. If he shows the mental strength he has hopefully gotten it out of huis system now and he will be a better player for it.

kopykat

kopykat wrote: »

First of all congratulations are due to all the irish players who made the lions tour to south africa, the munster team for winning the magners league and the leinster team for winning the heinken cup.all in all this season has been a sucess for irish rugby, proven by their grand slam win, however one thing that does bother me was the appeance of keith earls with the lions.this guy has barely played with ireland before yet the lions team decided to pick him.it showed in the game against the royal xv that he is not ready for international level yet,never mind lions tests,his mistakes were too basic,his handling was a disiaster and his attempt to catch a high ball was pathetic for a professional (first rule of catching is keep our elbows together),i am just wondering,how can this lions tour be any way beneficial to the young keith earls as so far it has only shown him up?

Probably not but he was playing 13 this season and him shanklin and Bod were the form 13's and they picked on form,so they said.

As much as I think the kid has talent he lacks the skillset for Centre at this stage imo,I would give him a few years on the wing Like Leinster have done with Luke Fitz.

wixfjord

This tour cold make him or break him, but he did come back into it well after the first four. Will be interesting to see his next performance.

DM_7

The experience of training and touring will be a major benefit to Keith. He is a good player and he has plenty of potential. He was brought as a player to play in the mid week games and I don't think he was brought to play centre. Circumstances found him taking up that position. He will be fine.

Trojan

RuggieBear wrote: »

it might be too much too soon but i prefer to think (hope?) he was just nervous. If he shows the mental strength he has hopefully gotten it out of huis system now and he will be a better player for it.

+1 on that, it's a tough start but you'll learn more from that than a 60-0 victory.

danthefan

If he's nervous against a team consisting of players he's most likely never heard of in front of a really tiny crowd then things aren't looking good.

anonymous_joe

Whether you're the best player in the world, or playing tip in the park with your mates, some days it just doesn't happen for you.

We've all had bad days before at anything and everything. He's young, we make mistakes.

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

If he's nervous against a team consisting of players he's most likely never heard of in front of a really tiny crowd then things aren't looking good.

What does that say about Shane Williams, World Player of the Year who also looked decidedly nervous and had a few knocks, dropping ball etc and he was playing with a back line that plays in week in week out/Wales?

He is just one 21 and made his Lions debut. They all looked nervous. Earls will be fine.

Stev_o

thehighground wrote: »

What does that say about Shane Williams, World Player of the Year who also looked decidedly nervous and had a few knocks, dropping ball etc and he was playing with a back line that plays in week in week out/Wales?

He is just one 21 and made his Lions debut. They all looked nervous. Earls will be fine.

But everyone said going into the tour that Williams was out of form and would be lucky to start while a great lot of people said that Earls great form will see him through.

danthefan

thehighground wrote: »

What does that say about Shane Williams, World Player of the Year who also looked decidedly nervous and had a few knocks, dropping ball etc and he was playing with a back line that plays in week in week out/Wales?

He is just one 21 and made his Lions debut. They all looked nervous. Earls will be fine.

Have I been saying Williams played well or something?

I think Williams is lucky to be on the tour after the season he's had.

thehighground

Stev_o wrote: »

But everyone said going into the tour that Williams was out of form and would be lucky to start while a great lot of people said that Earls great form will see him through.

Did anyone suggest that Earls would be a Test starter? Earls went as a bolter. Hopefully the nerves will settle. Remember Rob Kearney against Toulouse for Leinster? And look at him now?

thehighground

danthefan wrote: »

Have I been saying Williams played well or something?

I think Williams is lucky to be on the tour after the season he's had.

But the thread is about whether Keith Earls is ready and a comparison to a more experienced player on the day is not out of order, in my opinion, since you seem to think that since it was in front of a small crowd he should not have been nervous.

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

Did anyone suggest that Earls would be a Test starter? Earls went as a bolter. Hopefully the nerves will settle. Remember Rob Kearney against Toulouse for Leinster? And look at him now?

Bang on.

He had an awful first half, but looked a bit calmer afterwards. His form was good enough to get him there, let's hope he gets more chances to show why.

Was a bit disappointed not to see one of the older lads try and calm him down on the pitch, he looked like he needed an arm around the shoulder.

thehighground

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Bang on.

He had an awful first half, but looked a bit calmer afterwards. His form was good enough to get him there, let's hope he gets more chances to show why.

Was a bit disappointed not to see one of the older lads try and calm him down on the pitch, he looked like he needed an arm around the shoulder.

Since both ROG & POC know him pretty well, I'd be pretty confident they would know the right thing to do with him.

Anyone see the Irish Times/Gerry Thornley interview today with Earls:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0530/1224247745726.html

Stev_o

thehighground wrote: »

Did anyone suggest that Earls would be a Test starter? Earls went as a bolter. Hopefully the nerves will settle. Remember Rob Kearney against Toulouse for Leinster? And look at him now?

Nope and neither did I so what's your point. Rob is still a very nervous player in any jersey if things aren't going his teams way remember him vs Chabal in the 6N?

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

Since both ROG & POC know him pretty well, I'd pretty confident they would know the right thing to do with him.

Anyone see the Irish Times/Gerry Thornley interview today with Earls:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0530/1224247745726.html

Yeah, interesting comments on Fitzgerald. ^^

Ah there was just one moment I remember where he looked utterly miserable and ROG just walked by him. Stuck in the mind is all. He looked much calmer after the first poor period.

leeroybrown

danthefan wrote: »

If he's nervous against a team consisting of players he's most likely never heard of in front of a really tiny crowd then things aren't looking good.

A small crowd an an unknown team is one thing but knowing that you've got an 80 minute chance to impress tour management and potentially get into contention for a test match squad is quite another. I'd have expected anyone inexperienced to be feeling some nerves and pressure.

Judgement Day

thehighground wrote: »

Since both ROG & POC know him pretty well, I'd be pretty confident they would know the right thing to do with him.

Anyone see the Irish Times/Gerry Thornley interview today with Earls:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0530/1224247745726.html

Thanks for the Irish Times link. I'm a believer - Keith Earls is a brilliant player with a glittering future ahead of him and I look forward to watching him in the years ahead. I just hope his elevation to the Lions has not been too much too soon, but that said today was the first match of the tour and bound to be scrappy and I think anybody who thought it was going to be a walk in the park had not done their research properly.
________________

Trojan

I was gutted that Earls made so many basic mistakes, but give him a break. This game will stand to him and he'll go on and improve for the rest of the tour (even if he doesnt make the Test side). I'd be far more concerned with the poor performances from some of the older heads - but even then it's the first game of the tour.

CatFromHue

in fairness to earls his defence was good today, he made all his tackles well.
he did not play great offensively in the first half, well for the first 20mins or so, but did improve somewhat in the second.
its definitely one he'll learn from

Aidric

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Ah there was just one moment I remember where he looked utterly miserable and ROG just walked by him. Stuck in the mind is all. He looked much calmer after the first poor period.

Ya that struck me as strange as well. He just needed a word in the ear from an experienced player at that stage.

sm.org

Did I just miss six weeks of the Lions tour and Keith Earls played badly in ten games??

Oh thats right he only played one game and ten other more experienced internationals also played crap.

Most premature thread of all time.

chupacabra

In fairness the only errors Earls made today were unforced and his positional play was top notch. Unforced errors can always be put down to nerves so he didnt really have a bad game in that respect. I would imagine he will get another game against a midweek side but maybe off the bench.

chupacabra

chupacabra wrote: »

In fairness the only errors Earls made today were unforced and his positional play was top notch. Unforced errors can always be put down to nerves so he didnt really have a bad game in that respect. I would imagine he will get another game against a midweek side but maybe off the bench.

Yeah,if you look at the Lions videos the deal they make over presenting the shirt etc probably shook him up big time.

Fishtits

Jeez guys, give the chap a break. He's been playing pro rugby for one season, gets picked for the Lions (!) has a bad game, and you lot are questioning his ability? Get real FFS.

BTW, POC had a word in his ear during the match.

He's a talent, a young talent, but given the right circumstances he'll shine, no doubt about that IMHO.

We all have a horror from time to time.

Nukem

Think the nerves got to him a little - and wouldnt blame him. Compare that to the amount of experience some of the others had and the mistakes they made (williams-running into touch,dropping the ball, blair-silly passing??)

|He did come back into it and put in a few massive hits, which i think was outta annoyance at himself rather than anything else. Hope the whole lot of them settle down and play some decent rugby

kopykat

sm.org wrote: »

Did I just miss six weeks of the Lions tour and Keith Earls played badly in ten games??

Oh thats right he only played one game and ten other more experienced internationals also played crap.

Most premature thread of all time.

your gettin a bit ahead of yourself to think that earls will be playing any other games after the preformance he put in on saturday,never mind all ten games as quoted above.you seem to have not read the thread correctly,it asks the question how can this tour be beneficial to earls?not is earls any good as a player...anyway,lets all just settle down, briain o driscoll will be back soon enough and hopefully he will give a good preformance at 13.simply,lets leave the lions tour to the big boys,its not earl's time yet.not even close.

Tim Robbins

kopykat wrote: »

your gettin a bit ahead of yourself to think that earls will be playing any other games after the preformance he put in on saturday,never mind all ten games as quoted above.you seem to have not read the thread correctly,it asks the question how can this tour be beneficial to earls?not is earls any good as a player...anyway,lets all just settle down, briain o driscoll will be back soon enough and hopefully he will give a good preformance at 13.simply,lets leave the lions tour to the big boys,its not earl's time yet.not even close.

I would have started Earls on the wing. It's less presssure than the center. I think he's got a great turn of pace. But as for other attributes:

1. Making space for the outside
2. Offloading
3. Tackling
4. Decision making of when to put kicks in

I am not sure about as I haven't seen them (yet). We'll know when he's been tested, but I'd agree with other posters, we should go easy on him given his youth etc.

Photojoe

The rubbish being written about Earls is beyond belief. You get the people some people want him thrown off the tour and his IRFU contract cancelled after one bad first half.

He was the top try scorer in the Magners league so of course he is ready for the Lions.

He had a much better second half performance and I wouldn't read anything into a few dropped balls.

bleg

he's injured now, will probably miss wednesday's game.

Tomtom364

bleg wrote: »

he's injured now, will probably miss wednesday's game.

Doubt he was going to play wednesday anyway

zAbbo

Photojoe wrote: »

He was the top try scorer in the Magners league so of course he is ready for the Lions.

He wasn't - Thom Evans was, and only himself and Luke Fitz made the lions tour out of the top 10 eligible try scorers. But I agree with what you're saying. Earls didn't get the bounce of the ball, don't know if it was nerves or just a bit of bad luck.

He'll be back, and it's not like he was a certain test starter, so his non spectacular performance isn't a massive deal.

Podge_irl

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I would have started Earls on the wing. It's less presssure than the center. I think he's got a great turn of pace. But as for other attributes:

1. Making space for the outside
2. Offloading
3. Tackling
4. Decision making of when to put kicks in

I am not sure about as I haven't seen them (yet). We'll know when he's been tested, but I'd agree with other posters, we should go easy on him given his youth etc.

I think once they didn't replace Shanklin they were always going to have to try Earls in the centre, cause there really aren't all that many other options.

I understand the point about going easy on him, and I agree to an extent. Its still a Lions tour though, not a development tour.

leeroybrown

bleg wrote: »

he's injured now, will probably miss wednesday's game.

He was never going to play Saturday and Wednesday. So long as his injury recovers in time for the subsequent warm-up games he'll be fine.

Podge_irl wrote: »

I understand the point about going easy on him, and I agree to an extent. Its still a Lions tour though, not a development tour.

I don't think that the Lions management would have brought him if they thought he was there purely for development purposes. He's been in great form and they've obviously seen enough quality to justify brining him. Clearly he is a slightly risky choice and is there for his pace and finishing power but he still has an outside chance to make one or more of the test squads. From what I've seen of him he seems to have a great attitude so who's to say he can't make something of the opportunity.

I missed the game due to the Volvo Ocean Race so I can't comment on his play in it but there are five more warm-up games between now and the first Test, two of which he could still have a chance to impress in.

Profiler

zAbbo wrote: »

But I agree with what you're saying. Earls didn't get the bounce of the ball, don't know if it was nerves or just a bit of bad luck.

It was nerves and he got plenty of the bounce of the ball unfortunately he knocked it on at least 4 times. It was a disastrous start for him in a Lions shirt and he was a low light in a poorly performing team.

Hopefully he can bounce back but it won't be on this tour I doubt the Lions selectors will risk him at the test level Earls is a marked man and the next time he plays he will be targeted by the opposition.

thomond2006

Earls is a bit like Robinho imo.

He needs time and space to pose a threat.

When he played at FB, he had bundles of the two.

chupacabra

thomond2006 wrote: »

Earls is a bit like Robinho imo.

He needs time and space to pose a threat.

When he played at FB, he had bundles of the two.

His defense isnt good enough to be a FB tho.

danthefan

Photojoe wrote: »

He was the top try scorer in the Magners league so of course he is ready for the Lions.

Is Fionn Carr ready for the Lions too?

Tim Robbins

Podge_irl wrote: »

Its still a Lions tour though, not a development tour.

Good point.

acalmenvoy

I've no doubts Earls will come good in this tour, no way he's gonna have as bad a game as Saturday again, there was a lot of faith shown in him by one of the best coaches in world rugby, a guy that knows a Lions tour inside out and what selection is needed to get the job done.

Thats good enough for me.

Come on the Lions.

[Jackass]

Admitedly I didn't see it, but from the 3 papers I've read, Earls performance in the first match was described as a shocker in two and an absolute disastor in one, so it's not looking good...I said before his selection for this tour and when the suggestion of selection was made, that he has the talent and will be a future lion but he's not ready yet and it would be damaging to bring him.

So far that's the case, but I'm far from being proved right, but one more performance like that and I think I will have been and I also think it will crack his confidence which was so high.

A lot of the errors I read about were going forward, handling and physicality he just wasn't up to that level of intensity yet (he can hardly even be considered an international yet, so Lions is another step above that), but my OTHER main concern is those are the areas I thought he'd be able to do well in.

If he plays a test, he's the only player that would be targeted more than O'Gara, as his defence is weak. One on one he does ok, but hasn't really been tested, in scramble defence and running backwards he's weak and has been exposed a couple of times there at provincial level...plus, Munster back row have always been good at protecting players, also with good defenders like Howlett and Dowling there was some cover for him, but that's Munsters game and using what they've got to the best they can.

The Lions can't make exceptions for weakness and cover it up and I don't think he's a valid candidate for a test spot, but if he struggles like that against the weakest team they will play on tour, there should be concerns about putting him in again.

He certainly wont start the 3rd game, but I'd expect a bench spot for him and a full second half. If he sinks again in that his tour is over.

duckysauce

[Jackass] wrote: »

Admitedly I didn't see it, but from the 3 papers I've read, Earls performance in the first match was described as a shocker in two and an absolute disastor in one, so it's not looking good...I said before his selection for this tour and when the suggestion of selection was made, that he has the talent and will be a future lion but he's not ready yet and it would be damaging to bring him.

So far that's the case, but I'm far from being proved right, but one more performance like that and I think I will have been and I also think it will crack his confidence which was so high.

A lot of the errors I read about were going forward, handling and physicality he just wasn't up to that level of intensity yet (he can hardly even be considered an international yet, so Lions is another step above that), but my OTHER main concern is those are the areas I thought he'd be able to do well in.

If he plays a test, he's the only player that would be targeted more than O'Gara, as his defence is weak. One on one he does ok, but hasn't really been tested, in scramble defence and running backwards he's weak and has been exposed a couple of times there at provincial level...plus, Munster back row have always been good at protecting players, also with good defenders like Howlett and Dowling there was some cover for him, but that's Munsters game and using what they've got to the best they can.

The Lions can't make exceptions for weakness and cover it up and I don't think he's a valid candidate for a test spot, but if he struggles like that against the weakest team they will play on tour, there should be concerns about putting him in again.

He certainly wont start the 3rd game, but I'd expect a bench spot for him and a full second half. If he sinks again in that his tour is over.

his defence was the highlight of his game on sat, mad four bad knock ons, was very nervous, poc should have had a word with him early in the game, anyway hope he gets another chance and comes good, would not coment on players without even seeing the game, were these english newspapers?

twinytwo

Stev_o wrote: »

Nope and neither did I so what's your point. Rob is still a very nervous player in any jersey if things aren't going his teams way remember him vs Chabal in the 6N?

Kearney v A Tank... hmmm i wonder

thomond2006

twinytwo wrote: »

Kearney v A Cardboard Tank... hmmm i wonder

Changed that for you.

chupacabra

Those papers are all bollocks. They are completley focusing on the 4 knock ons. admittadly, one led to a try. but second half his performance was decent enough. He made some yards, defended really well and made a good clearance kick under pressure. I assume that most of papers being down on his performance are british ones... probably butt hurt that there are more irish players on the squad than english ones. Leave the kid alone.

anonymous_joe

chupacabra wrote: »

Those papers are all bollocks. They are completley focusing on the 4 knock ons. admittadly, one led to a try. but second half his performance was decent enough. He made some yards, defended really well and made a good clearance kick under pressure. I assume that most of papers being down on his performance are british ones... probably butt hurt that there are more irish players on the squad than english ones. Leave the kid alone.

It's not English jealousy that caused Earls to knock balls on.

He had a game effected by nerves, and played poorly. He was a bit better after the half-time break, but not that's about it.

Tomtom364

twinytwo wrote: »

Kearney v A Tank... hmmm i wonder

I may be wrong, but didnt kearney get out played by chabal? And not just steamrolled?

Tomtom364

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I may be wrong, but didnt kearney get out played by chabal? And not just steamrolled?

Kearney seems to have a problem defending on his right side but this can be worked on and if his wing is doing a his job he shouldnt be left isolated.

MORGANTHEMOON

Many of the team were nervous, unfortunately for Keith he had a mare but he's a good player and I'm sure he'll bounce back with the support around him.
Read the Martin Williams column on the BBC website. His thoughts on Keith and the game are worth reading.

duckysauce

MORGANTHEMOON wrote: »

Many of the team were nervous, unfortunately for Keith he had a mare but he's a good player and I'm sure he'll bounce back with the support around him.
Read the Martin Williams column on the BBC website. His thoughts on Keith and the game are worth reading.

fair balls to him a very honest summary of what it was like