quickie question with regards to the new laws that will come into play in the future?

bullets

Are we still OK to import airsoft gear? at present moment in time?

ie we should have no problems importing since that
CJM bill is not actually LAW in Ireland yet?

Im worried at the moment since the publishing of the bill
that if I order from abroad that customs will be spooked!

There is SOOOoooo much stuff I want to buy in the future
that quite simply the Irish retailers just dont stock at present.


~B

iceage

As you said mate....its not law yet. Customs is the issue.

Masada

Theres always the chance that it might get sent for testing, and ya know how they are up there. it can be there for months. by which time the bill will probably be passed. lol

bullets

More than happy to buy from Irish retailers if the price is right (fair) and they get cool goodies in stock! The last thing I want is to have to go sourcing stuff abroad.

~B

Arcto

Sorry im a bit behind on this new law: Is it going to restrict airsoft imports or is it a blanket ban?

Masada

Importing will only be possible for retailers.

Arcto

Ah right. So youll have to buy Irish?

Lets all pray the retailers dont band together and jack the prices up then :pac:


J/K


As it stands Irish retailers are pretty competitive with foreign. And im sure if this law comes into effect they will probably make some deal where they would buy something from a foreign site, not stocked here, and charge maybe 1% commission (hint )

CrazyRabbit

bullets wrote: »

More than happy to buy from Irish retailers if the price is right (fair) and they get cool goodies in stock! The last thing I want is to have to go sourcing stuff abroad.

~B

I went to one of the retail stores a few weeks ago. They didn't even have .23g bb's in stock.

I for one am praying we don't get forced to buying Irish. Look, fair play to all the local retailers, but they are a long way from providing the choice of the international retailers....the sport just isn't big enough here for them to justify having massive stock choice.

kevteljeur

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I went to one of the retail stores a few weeks ago. They didn't even have .23g bb's in stock.

I for one am praying we don't get forced to buying Irish. Look, fair play to all the local retailers, but they are a long way from providing the choice of the international retailers....the sport just isn't big enough here for them to justify having massive stock choice.

I went to a Centra last week, and they didn't have the Avonmore Super milk with added vitamins.


It's not like shopping in the UK or France here, it doesn't look like I'll be able to import cartons of Avonmore Super milk with added vitamins from abroad. I'm emigrating.



.

bullets

I feel a pressure at the moment to buy some of those usual pieces that you'd never see on an Irish store before the choice is taken away from me.

All those little pistols like the deringer, the little one that has 4 barrels, hand cocking
Olympic style ones, All the unusual ones that are not Practical for airsofting but
look cool, Cant remember if it was Marushin or Maruzen that had a huge range
nice stuff. Also the Brand named ones like Western Arms? No Irish retailer
has started selling these pistols that I am aware of even the ones
that say they mainly stock high end gear and the WA stuff are the dogs balls,
The Army Detonics new full metal one that is a super sweet deal at under 50 USD etc,
full metal revolvers, Custom made Bren Guns from England etc etc.

Its just way too much to expect an Irish retailer to have to try and aquire for you
on whims and impulse buys. (Or my whims and inpluse buys )

~B
(No loss not having Avonmore Super milk by the way, Manky stuff, Golden Vale for the win!)

kevteljeur

bullets wrote: »

I feel a pressure at the moment to buy some of those usual pieces that you'd never see on an Irish store before the choice is taken away from me.

All those little pistols like the deringer, the little one that has 4 barrels, hand cocking
Olympic style ones, All the unusual ones that are not Practical for airsofting but
look cool, Cant remember if it was Marushin or Maruzen that had a huge range
nice stuff. Also the Brand named ones like Western Arms? No Irish retailer
has started selling these pistols that I am aware of even the ones
that say they mainly stock high end gear and the WA stuff are the dogs balls,
The Army Detonics new full metal one that is a super sweet deal at under 50 USD etc,
full metal revolvers, Custom made Bren Guns from England etc etc.

Its just way too much to expect an Irish retailer to have to try and aquire for you
on whims and impulse buys. (Or my whims and inpluse buys )

~B
(No loss not having Avonmore Super milk by the way, Manky stuff, Golden Vale for the win!)

Sorry Bullets, I wasn't making slight of your original point - but I can understand that you're buying some specialist items from abroad which are not, and never will be, stocked here. The thing is, is this situation a 'glass half-empty' or 'glass half-full' scenario? I think it's the latter. The original aim of the legislation appears to have been to take airsoft away altogether, so a half-way house is that customs no longer needs to concern itself with whether you personally are trying to smuggle RS guns in, since it is going to a trusted airsoft gun dealer. I can't see how this affects importing in many of the other bits and pieces that we all have ordered in. Including bbs, and anyone who is importing those in bulk is either getting specialist items, or is loaded.

If you have a good relationship with a favoured dealer, then I'm sure you could work out something to your mutual advantage for your spur of the moment purchases, no? I can't see any avenue for the 'I'm not accepting this new legislation, I protest and refuse to accept it' line of thought. Not that you will, but that's where this thread is going.


.

The Master

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I went to one of the retail stores a few weeks ago. They didn't even have .23g bb's in stock.

I for one am praying we don't get forced to buying Irish. Look, fair play to all the local retailers, but they are a long way from providing the choice of the international retailers....the sport just isn't big enough here for them to justify having massive stock choice.

Ridiculous comment,

1 item was out of stock so all local retailers are rubbish and we shouldn't buy Irish?

Maybe if more people shopped in Irish retailers they could provide a greater range?

but they are a long way from providing the choice of the international retailers....the sport just isn't big enough here for them to justify having massive stock choice

:rolleyes: words fail me........

horgan_p

With all due respect - has anyone looking at something off the wall ever asked a retailer to get something in for them ???

I run an order book (as i'm sure most retailers do) , people come in ask for something , it gets ordered , job done.Usual turnaround is between 1 and 2 weeks.

In fact personally i usually order 2 ( one for the customer , one for the shop) on the thinking that if one person wants it maybe another will as well.
We cant order what we dont know you want.

bullets

horgan_p wrote: »

With all due respect - has anyone looking at something off the wall ever asked a retailer to get something in for them ???

I have indeed and the Irish retailers have been more than helpful
with sorting me out in the past. Also in the past some Retailers
have posted here and said....were ordering who wants what?

occasionally even the Irish retailer cant
get stuff I've been looking in the past due
to their supplier being constantly out of stock.

Sometimes cost is a factor, I try to buy Irish all of the time
and I understand the shops here have overheards and still need
to earn money and pay staff etc but sometimes the difference in
price is just too much of a deciding factor.

for example and I will use my Favourite shaped fugly gun:
(Proud owner of 3 forms of fuglyness and more to be had)

To purchase King Arms FAL in Ireland its around 400 Euros.

abroad Its 218USD +75USD Postage Roughly and VAT/Customs fees
add that all up convert to Euro
and your looking at maybe 250 Euros in Total.

Thats a major difference of 150 Euros.

~B

Dread-Lock

TBH I think CrazyRabbit was using the .23 BB's as an example. It was a little extreme, but I can see where he's coming from. If Irish shops don't have simple stock such as BB's what makes you think they're gonna have that metal slide for my Glock 17. (Just another example).

You say Irish shops will order in things if you ask. But the last time I asked I was told no chance, just order it yourself.
And that is fair enough I completely understand that there would be little point in them ordering in stuff just for me. I was also told by that retailer it would cost alot more ordering it through them.

I like to buy Irish as much as possible, not just because its "better for the sport" or its "better for Ireland's economy"...It's better for the buyer because of the amazing customer support that is given. But somethings are just more hassle for both the customer and the retailer. And me personally, I don't like the idea of having my options cut off.

kevteljeur

Seems to me that there's a business opportunity to be had here, since the law is going to be what it's going to be. It doesn't matter whether or not we want to buy AEGs here or abroad, we're just not going to be able to buy them abroad, end of story. And if your chosen supplier won't do business with you in the way you want, then buy elsewhere.

I believe most of the miscellaneous odds and ends that people tend to buy abroad aren't covered by the legislation?



.

bullets

I'll make a list at the weekend of some of my planned future buys.
I know at the moment there is about 10 Different Pistols I want
and at least 12 AEG's. At least that way a retailer here will be able
to give me a yes/no answer as to if they can source one for me.

~B

gerrowadat

kevteljeur wrote: »

Seems to me that there's a business opportunity to be had here, since the law is going to be what it's going to be. It doesn't matter whether or not we want to buy AEGs here or abroad, we're just not going to be able to buy them abroad, end of story. And if your chosen supplier won't do business with you in the way you want, then buy elsewhere.

I believe most of the miscellaneous odds and ends that people tend to buy abroad aren't covered by the legislation?

.

Legislation covers RiF (Replica imitation firearms), so once it isn't a replica gun or part of a real gun I reckon you'll be grand.

We're getting clarification from the DoJ in the next few weeks to be sure, though.

Dread-Lock

kevteljeur wrote: »

It doesn't matter whether or not we want to buy AEGs here or abroad, we're just not going to be able to buy them abroad, end of story.

Well its not law yet and things could change . (But I know it most likely won't).

kevteljeur wrote: »

I believe most of the miscellaneous odds and ends that people tend to buy abroad aren't covered by the legislation?

Has that been confirmed? Have the IAA cleared that up? Will we still be aloud order upgrade parts and accessories?
Just been answered by Gerrowadat.

kevteljeur wrote: »

Seems to me that there's a business opportunity to be had here

I really hope the retailers see it that way. Then I don't really care about not being able to import in (I still don't like it, but at least I can still get what I want).

kevteljeur wrote: »

And if your chosen supplier won't do business with you in the way you want, then buy elsewhere.

What if the only supplier that will do business the way I want is aboard? Don't bother answering that as I already know the answer its TS!

Shiva

The only time we've ever told someone they'd be better ordering something themselves is when it'd cost them a lot more to buy it from us. Personally, I thought we were doing them a favour by saving them a few quid.

Even then, the only time we've done that is when its for a small part that we'd have to order specially - we have NEVER and will never refuse to order a special gun for someone, once its either under 1 joule, or we can get it downgraded at source.

I personally don't like the provision that bans people importing their own RIFs, but I think people are panicking a bit too much. Its not going to mess most people up - most people seem to buy their guns from Irish retailers, and only go abroad for accessories and parts, neither of which will be prohibited by the Bill as its now written.

Toasty113

Shiva wrote: »

most people seem to buy their guns from Irish retailers, and only go abroad for accessories and parts, neither of which will be prohibited by the Bill as its now written.

Thats what I do anyway, there are just more advantages to buying your airsoft guns Irish, and you dont have to deal with customs or anyone else that "just doesnt like the look of it". Also, in most cases I've checked that after shipping + Customs charges you usually save very little, and even that can be lost if your gun breaks during shipping or in a few weeks after arrival because you'll be hard pushed to claim warranty.

And I know it sucks to have our options limited, but the matter of the fact is its not customs and garda balistics job to go testing our toys when they're supposed to be out for the real criminals.

All I can say is if that part of the bill goes through which is fairly certain, you'd best get in the good graces of your local retailer;)

Stercus Accidit

I am very much opposed to a law restricting import purely because customs no longer want to deal with these items, legal or not.

Fact is these items are legal, they are legal in Europe, why shouldn't we be able to import from within the EU for example? It is because they look like something scary they are being restricted, and airsoft is a weird sport with shadowy players existing on the fringe, or at least thats how it is viewed I imagine. Airsoft is a legitimate past time, with a dedicated following growing by the day, we don't need to apologise for existing, and measures that will unnecessarily restrict our sport are unwelcome and should be opposed.

Idealistic? Maybe, we are happy to have our sport safer than before, I am grateful to the IAA for that, but I'm not going to bend over every time someone wants to put arbitrary restrictions on my legal past-time.

Airsoft in Ireland is a well networked large group of people, voters and tax payers, and I'm sick of waiting on newer and more restrictive measures being slapped on us because of flaws in other aspects of the countries operation.

/end rant

I've popped a question up on the IAA forum, I'm hoping to hear back soon on where we stand at the moment on all the issues, as we all know this MJB in proposed form is deeply flawed, and worrier that I am its been on my mind of late. Any word on how its shaping up, and at what stage of discussions with the DOJ we are at?

Thanks.

MiniAirsofter

IMO I don't think this is going to affect people that much. You just can't buy RIFs. I personally have never bought an RIF abroad. The only parts I buy abroad are parts such as gears, pistons and other technical parts.

bullets

OK when the new laws come into effect I've made a list
of stuff I'd like to be able to get. I hope Irish retailers
will be able to get it. I dont mean now straight away
but these are things that I had planned on buying WAAAAYY into the future.
(And if anyone thinks I'm taking the mick, I'm serious I did plan
on buying the stuff over time, and have tried for some items before but
some shops are out of stock Long term abroad)

Shooters design Metal slide to fit my Hybrid WA Pistol.
Western ArmsWilson Combat Gilded for the Bling Factor.
Kimber Gold Match Shell ejecting pistol GBB.
WB 105 Competision Gas Pistol.
Marushin 44 Automag.
Marushin Cop 377
Marushin Derringer (Black and Crome)
SIISP990 Hard Drive (Parkerized)
KWC UZI (or any other brand Full size UZI prefereable)
HFC T77 Metal Gas Blow Back.
Hudson M3A1 Gas Blow Back.
Maruzen P99 Movie set with silencer.
Maruzen APS3 (May not want this as I've a clone on the way)
Maruzen Taurus 8inch Raging Bull
Maruzen?? MK1 Bull Barrell.
The new Browining Hi-Power (whatever the manufacture)
A Barrett
AGM M4 GBB (possibly)
Enfield Slme when it comes out.
Thompson with Drum Mag
Tavor (Any Brand)
Marushin Winchester Model 1892
Mosin-Nagant Sniper Version that is cheap.
Bren Gun (if I ever could afford 700 UKP)
Cheytac when a clone comes out.
FAL GBB if ever one is made (Dont care what price it is)
WWII stuff.

Thats all I can think of off the top of my head after
a quick rumage around a few of the Asian Shops.
There is probably more I've forgotton I wanted.

~B

ED E

I have an idea, which is probably a bad thing, but maybe not.

If person X wants to buy gun Y which is very hard to get/very particular/private sale etc. they cant ship it to themselves. But a retailer can have it shipped to their premisis. Could a system not be set up that person X orders the gun, then calls retailer Z and asks if its ok for him to ship to them, then pays and waits. Few days/weeks later he goes out to Z and pays him a €10 (for example) holding fee and gets his gun. That removes all the hassle of hundreds of players asking retailers for every little component/gun.

The retailers will make money purely out of signing their name and taking a box, and the airsofter gets their kit. They also wont have to be at their house at 2pm on a tuesday.

Arcto

Lethal that was allready proposed but as was said allready itd purely be down to the retailers and if they would want to go to the hassle etc.

I still maintain its a good idea though :cool:

kevteljeur

Arcto wrote: »

Lethal that was allready proposed but as was said allready itd purely be down to the retailers and if they would want to go to the hassle etc.

I still maintain its a good idea though :cool:

More to the point, which I was what I was getting at, that someone (might even be Bullets himself) might make this into a business; specialising in the ordering and importing of niche or specialised kit from abroad. It would have to cost more, and I don't see why an existing retailer wouldn't get into it apart from the pain in the arse factor, but since this is the way things are going to work in the near future whether we like it or not, it presents itself as a way to make some money, and to assist the specialist equipment buyers. Could be a club organising itself as a shop, even - subscriptions might cover the running costs of the so-called shop.



.

Stercus Accidit

kevteljeur wrote: »

More to the point, which I was what I was getting at, that someone (might even be Bullets himself) might make this into a business; specialising in the ordering and importing of niche or specialised kit from abroad. It would have to cost more, and I don't see why an existing retailer wouldn't get into it apart from the pain in the arse factor, but since this is the way things are going to work in the near future whether we like it or not, it presents itself as a way to make some money, and to assist the specialist equipment buyers. Could be a club organising itself as a shop, even - subscriptions might cover the running costs of the so-called shop.

This is the thing though, is it? All I've heard since the draft proposal is that it isn't finalised, proposals are in the pipeline etc. and I'm waiting to hear wtf is actually going on at the moment, I believe a statement is on the way, but I haven't a clue when.

This is one of the worst parts of this legislation, and is not the trend in other countries, in fact, I'm not aware of one other country where this is the law they have used to control airsoft.

Even in the UK you can get a private import onec you are registered with ukara, and that is one of the most imposing and flawed airsoft control measures around.


Restrict import, sure, but as a literally card carrying member of the IAA and legitimate skirmisher why on earth shouldn't I be able to post an airsoft gun to my home, rather than an hour bus journey into Dublin, because the end result is the same, I will own a replica gun, the only difference is hassle to me, and less hassle to a paid public servant whose job it is to sort these things.

I want some other option that starting a token business and the huge hassle that would cause to import legally. If they can register and maintain a register of businesses, why can't that be extended to individuals in some way? In before the "logistics" response, because this is a much easier solution than the current strain on customs and should be given serious thought. Its all well and good if you have the extra money for cost and postage to your home, the extra time to wait for your item or if you work in or own airsoft shop, but this particular proposal is sh*tting all over me and for not one reason of public order, only some feckin logistics issue.

Edit: http://irishairsoft.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/request_for_clarification_on_mpb_2009.pdf

Having read the IAA statement, thanks lads, I'm glad to see personal import addressed among the other equally important issues, and look forward to the DOJ feedback.

bullets

kevteljeur wrote: »

More to the point, which I was what I was getting at, that someone (might even be Bullets himself) might make this into a business; specialising in the ordering and importing of niche or specialised kit from abroad.
.

Not for me I'm afraid, Its hassle enough just trying to
time it to being at home for my own deliveries to arrive.
I dont drive and there is no post office locally so its a nightmare for me with regards to Mr. Postman if I miss him.

I work office hours, they deliver office hours, they are closed when I am finished work and the deliver office is closed over the weekends so cant collect then either.

Much easier solution is everyone being allowed to but stuff from aborad! :-P
or having a collectors & players permit.

The Database of IAA member names as much as I dislike the Idea could prove useful in
the future if provided to Customs as a list of poeple allowed to import...if all else fails.


~B