Cav pulling out of the Giro

Deller · 28-05-2009 11:08am #1

This is a joke.

He done the same thing in last years tour. Won a boat load of stages and then heads home, what a farce. How can someone doing the full race compete with another rider who is only in it for a bit of glory before headin' home.

petethedrummer · 28-05-2009 11:10am

Deller wrote: »

How can someone doing the full race compete with another rider who is only in it for a bit of glory before headin' home.

It's within the rules and the other guy can win the remaining sprints.

Deller · 28-05-2009 11:12am

petethedrummer wrote: »

It's within the rules and the other guy can win the remaining sprints.

Rules, rules, rules.

What about the spirit of the sport???

Raam · 28-05-2009 11:16am

Have a read here...

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/The_Wednesday_Comment_May_27_article_283379.html

Cavendish is a sprinter, and he's the fastest in the world. His job is to win as many races as possible and, since the start of this year, he has made no secret of the fact that he wants to challenge for the green jersey at the Tour de France. In order to do that, he has to remain as fresh as possible.

It's easy to forget Cavendish is still only 24. Slogging through a brutally hard final week of the Giro could do more harm than good at this stage of his career. Completing two grand tours in a season, on top of a full spring, is asking a lot of a relatively young rider. Columbia were exercising common sense by pulling him out of the race.

Chips Lovell · 28-05-2009 11:16am

He pulled out nearly a week ago.

Sprinters pulling out of Grand Tours has been happening for years. Nobody gets too upset about it unless they totally take the mick.

Deller · 28-05-2009 11:18am

Raam wrote: »

Have a read here...

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/The_Wednesday_Comment_May_27_article_283379.html

What do you take me for??

If you are not in the tour with the intention of finishing, you should not be there.

Raam · 28-05-2009 11:19am

Deller wrote: »

What do you take me for??

If you are not in the tour with the intention of finishing, you should not be there.

Why not?

Caroline_ie · 28-05-2009 11:21am

He also pulled out of the ToI on the last days after trying to go up Patrick hilll in Cork.

Deller · 28-05-2009 11:21am

Raam wrote: »

Why not?

Maybe you should look into the history of the sport?

If you want a bit of attention and glory. stick to the one dayers, leave the 3 week tours to the big boys.

Raam · 28-05-2009 11:22am

Caroline_ie wrote: »

He also pulled out of the ToI on the last days after trying to go up Patrick hilll in Cork.

Or to put it another way, he gifted the jersey to someone else

Junior · 28-05-2009 11:23am

Deller wrote: »

What do you take me for??

If you are not in the tour with the intention of finishing, you should not be there.

A newbie perhaps ?

I'd take more umbrage about his comments on the crit stage where he criticized other riders for their attitude. Then he goes and leaves..

Raam · 28-05-2009 11:23am

Deller wrote: »

Maybe you should look into the history of the sport?

What do you mean?

Junior · 28-05-2009 11:24am

Raam wrote: »

What do you mean?

Like that massive battle between Fignon and LeMond for the green jersey.. oh then again...

Chips Lovell · 28-05-2009 11:26am

Deller wrote: »

Maybe you should look into the history of the sport?

If you want a bit of attention and glory. stick to the one dayers, leave the 3 week tours to the big boys.

The history of the sport is littered with sprinters who only do part of a stage race. That's how stage racing works, some people are there for the overall, some there to help their team mates and some are there just to win stages.

There was only one stage left that he had any chance of winning, so if he was targetting the Tour, there was hardly any point in riding for another week.

Besides, its not like all the other sprinters are busting a gut now while Cavendish is swanning around on the beach. They are out the back, in the grupetto, going over the mountains as slowly as the time limit allows.

Deller · 28-05-2009 11:27am

Raam wrote: »

What do you mean?

Well, take the tour de france. It is an endurance event. Something originally developed to test the spirit as much as the fitness of the riders.

Only a small number completed the race in the early days. Now we have these glory hunters grabbing a few stages, making the headlines and them heading home. Absolute disgrace.

In my opinion, any rider who pulls out without an injury should have his times removed.

Raam · 28-05-2009 11:29am

Deller wrote: »

Well, take the tour de france. It is an endurance event. Something originally developed to test the spirit as much as the fitness of the riders.

Only a small number completed the race in the early days. Now we have these glory hunters grabbing a few stages, making the headlines and them heading home. Absolute disgrace.

In my opinion, any rider who pulls out without an injury should have his times removed.

Well the sport has moved on and sprinters have objectives as well as the GC men.

Deller · 28-05-2009 11:30am

el tonto wrote: »

The history of the sport is littered with sprinters who only do part of a stage race. That's how stage racing works, some people are there for the overall, some there to help their team mates and some are there just to win stages.

There was only one stage left that he had any chance of winning, so if he was targetting the Tour, there was hardly any point in riding for another week.

Besides, its not like all the other sprinters are busting a gut now while Cavendish is swanning around on the beach. They are out the back, in the grupetto, going over the mountains as slowly as the time limit allows.

"the grupetto" ! Been watching eurosport?

niceonetom · 28-05-2009 11:32am

Deller wrote: »

"the grupetto" ! Been watching eurosport?

You are making a fool of yourself here.

Deller · 28-05-2009 11:32am

Raam wrote: »

Well the sport has moved on and sprinters have objectives as well as the GC men.

It is one thing being a sprinter and completing the race, it is another to pull out when it suits your selfish motives.

What about the little fans. Would they not like to see Cav, even if he is at the back of the group over the last week. The sport is going the way of football, run over with selfish, money grabbing, arrogant peps.

Raam · 28-05-2009 11:33am

Deller wrote: »

"the grupetto" ! Been watching eurosport?

It's common parlance in the cycling world, as I'm sure you know

Just like derailleur, peloton, domestique...

Raam · 28-05-2009 11:33am

Deller wrote: »

It is one thing being a sprinter and completing the race, it is another to pull out when it suits your selfish motives.

What about the little fans. Would they not like to see Cav, even if he is at the back of the group over the last week. The sport is going the way of football, run over with selfish, money grabbing, arrogant peps.

This is great stuff

Chips Lovell · 28-05-2009 11:34am

Deller wrote: »

In my opinion, any rider who pulls out without an injury should have his times removed.

Your opinion being the operative word. It's not how cycling works these days and most fans don't really have a problem with it.

In your opinion, should riders be penalised if they don't try on certain stages and just ride to get around? After all, they might have an unfair advantage against someone who was busting a gut the day before?

Deller wrote: »

"the grupetto" ! Been watching eurosport?

That's what it's called.

Chips Lovell · 28-05-2009 11:36am

Deller wrote: »

What about the little fans. Would they not like to see Cav, even if he is at the back of the group over the last week. The sport is going the way of football, run over with selfish, money grabbing, arrogant peps.

Having the camera go back to Mark Cavendish hauling his fat arse up a mountain is the last thing I want to see at the business end of a stage.

ednwireland · 28-05-2009 11:39am

well he had to struggle through a week of serious mountain stages and wasnt in a position to win the sprinters jersey, i see no problem with it, also i think he's aiming to win green jersey at the tour de france, also riding two major tours for a 23 year old is asking quite a lot. he's ridden something like 40 races this year all ready. and when you've won as many races as he has this season no-ones arguing
2009 wins

2 stages of Giro d'Italia and wore Maglia Rosa

Milan San Remo
Final stage of Tirreno Adriatico
2 stages of Three Days of De Panne

2 stages and the Sprint Jersey at the Amgen Tour of California
2 stages of Tour of Qatar

wouldnt be too many teams complaining at that win rate

and in the interview he seemed pretty annoyed that he pullled out of last years tour to focus on the olympics which didnt really happen for him

btw i have no problem with him pulling out of the giro or the tour for that matter its the nature of big tours

Caroline_ie · 28-05-2009 11:44am

Deller ... who are you?

TinyExplosions · 28-05-2009 11:44am

Raam wrote: »

It's common parlance in the cycling world, as I'm sure you know
Just like derailleur, peloton, domestique...

Classement, bidon etc etc etc

Raam · 28-05-2009 11:45am

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Classement, bidon etc etc etc

Casquette

Hermy · 28-05-2009 11:59am

Deller wrote: »

In my opinion, any rider who pulls out without an injury should have his times removed.

Would there be any merit in introducing something to encourage riders to complete a Tour?
I don't mean that a rider should be punished for abandoning due to injury but maybe points, time bonuses etc, could be redistributed.
Actually I don't think it would work at all.
It's just that it always bothered me in the Tour how Mario would quit at the first sign of hills while Zabel, McEwen et al would battle it out to Paris and yet Mario goes down in a blaze of glory for winning god knows how many stages.

Lumen · 28-05-2009 12:10pm

Road racing is an unfair sport.

The best way to make it fair would be to eliminate teams and drafting, then add a bit of variety to level the playing field for people with different capabilities. Maybe a swim and a run?

Hermy · 28-05-2009 12:13pm

Lumen wrote: »

Road racing is an unfair sport.

Too true.

Raam · 28-05-2009 12:57pm

Hermy wrote: »

I don't mean that a rider should be punished for abandoning due to injury but maybe points, time bonuses etc, could be redistributed.

We could never really know if a rider has or hasn't pulled out due to injury.

E@gle. · 28-05-2009 12:58pm

Deller if you had ever watched cycling you would know that its not uncommon for a sprinter to pull out of a grand tour.

Look at mario Cippolini he never even finished the tour and how many stages did he win?

And also how its it selfish for him to pull out, he probalbly would not get over the climbs anyway

alfalad · 28-05-2009 1:24pm

Do any of you fine people have a link to a "dummies guide to racing" cause have not idea how this works and am getting a bit curious. Would have thought it is of no benefit to the rider or the team if he pulls out half way through. So would like to know more on how the points thing works etc!

Chips Lovell · 28-05-2009 1:28pm

alfalad wrote: »

Would have thought it is of no benefit to the rider or the team if he pulls out half way through.

Not necessarily. For Cavendish, it means he can turn up at the Tour de France feeling fresh, with the right amount of racing in his legs. He's a pure sprinter, so he isn't going to be that much use to his team in the final days of the Giro.

alfalad wrote: »

So would like to know more on how the points thing works etc!

You get points for finishing in the top few places on a stage. There are also intermediate sprint points during a stage, where the first three riders across can rack up points.

TinyExplosions · 28-05-2009 1:29pm

alfalad wrote: »

Do any of you fine people have a link to a "dummies guide to racing" cause have not idea how this works and am getting a bit curious. Would have thought it is of no benefit to the rider or the team if he pulls out half way through. So would like to know more on how the points thing works etc!

If he pulls out, he can't win the points jersey, and it passes to the rider with the next highest number of points.

The benefit the team gets is media exposure from stage wins, which is worth more to them (possibly) than purely the points jersey.

I suspect one of the main reasons Cav pulled out was to avoid running over the max time limit on one of the long, mountains stages and having to retire that way

Hungrycol · 28-05-2009 1:29pm

I think they should just let the sprinters race the last kilometer.

I agree with Deller in a way. I don't like they way sprinters only go into a grand tour or stage race with the intention of only racing a few days/weeks. Just doesn't seem right old chap. But that's what's done and so be it.

alfalad · 28-05-2009 1:35pm

el tonto wrote: »

Not necessarily. For Cavendish, it means he can turn up at the Tour de France feeling fresh, with the right amount of racing in his legs. He's a pure sprinter, so he isn't going to be that much use to his team in the final days of the Giro.

You get points for finishing in the top few places on a stage. There are also intermediate sprint points during a stage, where the first three riders across can rack up points.

Ah so it's to get himself ready for the big event as much as anything else. The team will only benifit from media attention etc and not from his points but like wise they won't be hurt by his dropping out.

Thanks guys, must do a bit of research!

Raam · 28-05-2009 1:44pm

Hungrycol wrote: »

I think they should just let the sprinters race the last kilometer.

I agree with Deller in a way. I don't like they way sprinters only go into a grand tour or stage race with the intention of only racing a few days/weeks. Just doesn't seem right old chap. But that's what's done and so be it.

I see it as a symptom of the way the races are structured. A tonne of emphasis is placed on getting a stage win, so it makes sense for guys to target them and not be too bothered about finishing the entire thing. There's so much glory associated with nicking a stage. To be fair to Cav, he raced for almost two weeks, that's a lot.

petethedrummer · 28-05-2009 1:45pm

You have take into consideration that only about 5 to 10 in the entire race are truly contesting the [Sean Kelly]Generhul Klassement[/Sean Kelly]. 1 guy out of each team is the sprinter, 1 or 2 lead men for sprinter. Then you have 5 or 6 domestiques to help the GC contender and they're not even contesting stages, bar the occasional break away. And there are TT specialists. So by your logic they should all be thrown out as well.

A tour is essentially a team sport. I think what would please Deller more would be if it was totally an individual race. No domestiques, no sprinters, no team time trial, no teams at all. Just each rider on his own. There is some merit in that, it would be a hard bastard who wins it but I don't think the format will change.

Raam · 28-05-2009 1:48pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

A tour is essentially a team sport. I think what would please Deller more would be if it was totally an individual race. No domestiques, no sprinters, no team time trial, no teams at all. There is some merit in that. It would be a hard bastard who wins it, but I don't think the format will change.

Back to Desgrange original vision. Which didn't work.

Chips Lovell · 28-05-2009 1:50pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

A tour is essentially a team sport. I think what would please Deller more would be if it was totally an individual race. No domestiques, no sprinters, no team time trial, no teams at all. Just each rider on his own and there is some merit in that. It would be a hard bastard who wins it, but I don't think the format will change.

As it is, a grand tour is a lot of races within one big race, which is quite fascinating once you get into it.

Making it into a purely individual event wouldn't work as the top riders would simply pay other people to work for them. Hell, it even happens now out on the road between guys from different teams.

Cav pulling out of the Giro

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