"Ní neart go Guinness" using the Ní

Beer Werewolf

Hello again

For the well loved phrase "Ní neart go Guinness", or Guinness for Strength, what is the Ní? Some places say it means 'not', so how does that make sense? If I wanted to use that sentance structure and say something like 'Beer for Wisdom' I could say:

Ní críonnacht go beoir?

And what would 'beer is wisdom' be? 'Tá críonnacht go beoir' or 'Tá beoir go críonnacht?'

The grammar is confusing me. I'm still confused over the 'go' thing as well, in some cases but not others. I've been slow with my learning lately, because of Uni, hope to get around to memorising all the verbs and the like once I've handed my assignments in .
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arse..biscuits

No strenght untill Guinness. I think

pog it

I would have thought it would be 'nil neart go Guinness'- so maybe that it's 'ni' instead of 'nil' is down to colloquial speak.. but I agree with arsebiscuits.. 'no strength without/until guinness' meaning.

If I was saying beer is wisdom, I'd maybe use 'sa' instead of 'go' but then you'd be more or less saying 'wisdom is in the beer'.. so it's a difficult one.

I'm not sure that knowing the verbs inside out will give you access to that information! Will you get the chance to get a lesson a week with a native speaker\somebody quite fluent? Or check in Teach na Gealt > After hours if you can ask in Irish- it's an all-Irish forum hence very fluent people hanging out there.

conchubhar1

it could be what arse buiscuits said

or it could be along the lines of ''ní folair...'' - ''necessary...''

fán go dtiocfaidh sé - the go meaning until - looks the most likely reason in the question sentence

no strength until guinness?

(im going into 3rd year of irish in college and i still get mixed up on these and verbs the odd time - its an intricate language but keep at it)

An gal gréine

"Guinness for strength" is not a direct translation for "Ní neart go Guinness". What's behind the saying is that whatever concept you previously had for the notion of "strength" it's as nothing until you taste Guinness. So, "no strength until Guinness" is a good pithy translation.
The "Ní" is correct and not colloquial.
"Ní críonnacht go beoir" is fine for "No wisdom until beer".
.
"Beer is wisdom", I would say, "Is críonnacht í an bheoir".

pog it

Maybe somebody will know why it's not 'nil neart' and 'ni neart'?---
I reckon it's colloquial but I'm not 100% sure on that!

But yeah Guinness has 'Guinness for strength' as the translation for 'Ni neart go Guinness' on some of the signs.

And 'ni neart' is also used in 'ni neart go cur le cheile'-as in there's no strength without unity.

So go has a few direct translations but the same meaning in these examples.

pog it

An gal gréine wrote: »

The "Ní" is correct and not colloquial.

Thank you! i have seen 'nil neart' more often than 'ni' so hence my confusion.

pog it

okay just found in O'Donaill-

'nil neart ar an mbás (ach pósadh aris)'.
'nil neart agam dul leat'
'nil neart air' (that's the common term).

So why is it 'ni neart go'.. and not 'nil neart go'?

An gal gréine

How I picture it in my own mind is:
"Níl neart go Guinness " would mean "There is'nt strength till Guinness" which is not the same thing.

pog it

okay, cool think I'm getting there- so gal gréine, would I be right in saying that:

'Ni neart' would essentially mean 'it's not strength' (or no strength) and
'Nil neart' = 'there is no strength'.

As in it's the copula in 'ni neart'.

Beer Werewolf

Guys...thank you! All of you!

I'd love to get lessons, but I live in Australia. they have none here. I'm doing what I can online until I go to Ireland in 2011 and seek out a teacher even for a couple of weeks, to go over what I've learned. I see there are some courses available. Depends how long I can afford to stay in the country for. My relatives all...I dunno dispersed across the world or I don't know them well enough, or not on good terms with them. Bugger.

"Wisdom is in the beer" and "No wisdom until beer" both sound good to me. The Guinness quote makes more sense...I've noticed a lot of loose translations around coupled with literal ones, so maybe that's why.

Oh dear I have to go to college myself and I have another question. I'll have to edit and ask when I get back.

EDIT: I found an Irish class around my area today...gonna give them a call, it's a bit out of my way, unfortunately, and on a day I work. It sucks. But hopefully there are other days they do it.

An gal gréine

Yes, Pog it, that would be my léamh on it.

pog it

berewolf, that's great news re. the irish classes. I hope you find a way to swing work to fit it in. I am starting a classes next week myself with a native speaker for one-to-one sessions so it'll make the learning easier- just one hour a week, but I'm really looking forward to it!
Sorry if my early post led you astray re. verbs, duh. I haven't done much on 'an chopail' yet (just been back learning for two months) so sorry I hadn't got the plot completely! I do try

Beer Werewolf

Lucky you, pog it! I'd love a one-on-one lesson. I'm hoping I can get down there. Do they differentiate a lot between the dialects in lessons? I hear if you go to somewhere like Dublin, it's all pretty mixed, but I've been learning mostly Munster because some of it is different.

Also, an chopail confuses me totally...I'll be picking your brains when you've done a few lessons, hehehe.