Renouncing Catholicism

cufroige

I am so furious with the catholic church. There's no need for me to elaborate. The people responsible for the atrocities we've been hearing in the Ryan report are disgusting monsters, they are a disgrace. I can not understand why they are not convicted of their crimes. Every time I see 'that uniform I want to confront the person and ask how they are not ashamed to wear it.

Apart from that, I do not believe in many things necessary for me to remain a (non practicing) catholic. I know I don't have to do anything 'official' for me to be a drop out but in light of everything I am ashamed of my life to be on a catholic register (or whatever) anymore

I don't have children but if I did I would not want to christen them. "washing away original sin??" BOLOX!! I know my family / hubby's family may have an issue with no christening, even my husband could have an issue with it but I just would not be able to participate in that nonsense anymore.

Has anyone here officially 'left' the catholic church? how?

Latchy

Not officially I haven't but nobody actually sent me a letter asking why I dont attend mass anymore .so it's always being an out of site ,out of mind thing with me anyway .

Coriolanus

Yeah you can officially leave, it's called Defection by Formal Act.

http://dublinstreams.blogspot.com/2007/11/leaving-irish-catholic-church-its.html

Details in the blog post.

maxxie

yep I am disgusted too! I would now find it really hard to go back to a church! How they protect these sick perverts and shy away from the compensation issue disgusts me. We the tax payer are paying for the sick crimes committed. The wealth the church sits on!! Now that angers me!

I think God would understand if I choose not to be a loyal Catholic anymore..

CiaranC

maxxie wrote: »

I think God would understand if I choose not to be a loyal Catholic anymore..

Frankly, if Jesus Christ is the son of God and his teachings are the word of God, I fail to see how you could be forgiven for remaining a Catholic in Ireland.

prinz

CiaranC wrote: »

Frankly, if Jesus Christ is the son of God and his teachings are the word of God, I fail to see how you could be forgiven for remaining a Catholic in Ireland.

I suppose much the same way I'd be forgiven for being a democrat despite what democracies have done in the past.

robindch

cufroige wrote: »

Has anyone here officially 'left' the catholic church?

Plenty have.

Try the A+A Forum.

Coriolanus

robindch wrote: »

Plenty have.

Try the A+A Forum.

One can defect from the Church and remain Christian. The OP doesn't seem to be renouncing belief so much as wishing to disassociate himself from one particular organization.

AtomicHorror

Nevore wrote: »

One can defect from the Church and remain Christian. The OP doesn't seem to be renouncing belief so much as wishing to disassociate himself from one particular organization.

Are you sure now? We've got lazy Sundays, flexible morals and forbidden music over here...

Coriolanus

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Are you sure now? We've got lazy Sundays, flexible morals and forbidden music over here...

Oh I know, I indulge in all of the above. Just from the tone of the OP he didn't sound like he was rejecting the whole shebang <insert joke here>. Yet. Mwahhaha. :pac:

c4cat

Just bypass Sunday Mass and go straight to the pub and say the following prayer


Our Beer,
Which art in barrels,
Hallowed be thy drink.
Thy will be drunk,
At home as it is in the pub.
Give us this day our foamy head,
And forgive us our spillage's,
As we forgive those who spill against us.
And lead us not to incarceration,
But deliver us from hangovers.
Our Bar Men

cufroige wrote: »

I am so furious with the catholic church. There's no need for me to elaborate. The people responsible for the atrocities we've been hearing in the Ryan report are disgusting monsters, they are a disgrace. I can not understand why they are not convicted of their crimes. Every time I see 'that uniform I want to confront the person and ask how they are not ashamed to wear it.

Apart from that, I do not believe in many things necessary for me to remain a (non practicing) catholic. I know I don't have to do anything 'official' for me to be a drop out but in light of everything I am ashamed of my life to be on a catholic register (or whatever) anymore

I don't have children but if I did I would not want to christen them. "washing away original sin??" BOLOX!! I know my family / hubby's family may have an issue with no christening, even my husband could have an issue with it but I just would not be able to participate in that nonsense anymore.

Has anyone here officially 'left' the catholic church? how?

cufroige

Nevore wrote: »

One can defect from the Church and remain Christian. The OP doesn't seem to be renouncing belief so much as wishing to disassociate himself from one particular organization.

Thank you, you are right. I do have beliefs, just none of them tally with the 'catholic' versions. The only thing I know for sure is that I know nothing.
I really feel the need to take some sort of action against the catholic church though!

I've made an appointment to meet with the local priest to chat about things. I'll post here after we meet & relay the outcome.

Thank you

Coriolanus

cufroige wrote: »

Thank you, you are right. I do have beliefs, just none of them tally with the 'catholic' versions. The only thing I know for sure is that I know nothing.
I really feel the need to take some sort of action against the catholic church though!

I've made an appointment to meet with the local priest to chat about things. I'll post here after we meet & relay the outcome.

Thank you

Welcome.

Let us know how it goes. I've been seeing conflicting accounts of the reaction to Defections by Formal Act. Some saying it's quick and easy, others it's like a stonewall.

Thumpette

I feel exactly the same as the OP.

I have always thought the Catholic faith was a bit of a farse, I'm sure we all know the dedicated front seater at mass every week who does not have a Christian fibre in their body. A relative of mine told me recently that she was glad that god had decided to make her brother and his wife unable to concieve, because she didnt think his wife was tidy enough around the house to deserve to be a mother! This same relative of mine goes to mass every day, knows all her prayers and probably thinks she is on the fast way to 'heaven'. It just makes me sick to my core (havent spoken 2 words to her since)

I dont know what faith I am, (apart from what my baptism cert tells me) but I know I believe in trying to be good and kind, to see the best in people, not to hurt people, things which I consider christian and moral values. I'm far from perfect- but at least i dont think I'm a hypocryte. I could have gone along with the lapsed catholic thing, church wedding, christened kids etc, but this latest report has torn the last shred of credibility there was in the Catholic religion.

They are steeped in incredible wealth, in horrendous corruption, abuse and cover ups. I dont want to be associated with this disgrace of a church- and i would be definately interested to hear how the OP gets on.

Good luck!

wicklowgal

Hi All, this is a difficult one for me. I have a lot of connections to the Church, all of whom are some of the greatest, most wonderful people I have ever met in my life. However, I couldn't agree more with the OP. My heart aches for those whose lives have been destroyed by the viciousness of such horrific abuse. It begs the question, could even the Lord Himself forgive these people?

Listening to the media over the past few days has really made me sick, to manipulate their positions in such a horrendous way, it leaves me speechless. To hear and see fully grown men weep so desperately is the epitomy of sadness.

I have not considered myself a Catholic for a long time, however, I do consider myself a devout Christian as I believe it is not Jesus who committed these horrendous crimes but the gift of free choice.

My prayers and thoughts are with each and every person who have had their lives torn apart by this evil.

kelly1

Thumpette wrote: »

I feel exactly the same as the OP.

I have always thought the Catholic faith was a bit of a farse, I'm sure we all know the dedicated front seater at mass every week who does not have a Christian fibre in their body. A relative of mine told me recently that she was glad that god had decided to make her brother and his wife unable to concieve, because she didnt think his wife was tidy enough around the house to deserve to be a mother! This same relative of mine goes to mass every day, knows all her prayers and probably thinks she is on the fast way to 'heaven'. It just makes me sick to my core (havent spoken 2 words to her since)

I dont know what faith I am, (apart from what my baptism cert tells me) but I know I believe in trying to be good and kind, to see the best in people, not to hurt people, things which I consider christian and moral values. I'm far from perfect- but at least i dont think I'm a hypocryte. I could have gone along with the lapsed catholic thing, church wedding, christened kids etc, but this latest report has torn the last shred of credibility there was in the Catholic religion.

They are steeped in incredible wealth, in horrendous corruption, abuse and cover ups. I dont want to be associated with this disgrace of a church- and i would be definately interested to hear how the OP gets on.

Good luck!

Does hypocrisy make the faith itself false? We all know that Christians often behave in unchristian ways. That has nothing to do with the the teachings of the Church which are about love of God and neighbour. Those who abused children will be severely punished either in purgatory or hell. We will all have to face God's judgement.

These abuse scandals sicken me and almost make me ashamed to call myself Catholic but I will remain faithful because I don't want to cause Jesus further pain by abandoning His Church and tearing away another member of His "Body". But I can understand how people don't believe that the RCC is Christ's Church.

cufroige

kelly1 wrote: »

Those who abused children will be severely punished either in purgatory or hell.

I wouldn't put too much faith in 'purgatory' or 'hell' reason being the fact that The RCC recently changed their stance on 'limbo'. Apparently that belief is expendable!! HOW can they expect to be taken seriously by anyone with half a mind? REALLY!?

Never mind having to be judged by GOD when we die (nobody knows what happens then) if one's own conscience is not enough to be judged by, I don't know what is!

Ass

Once you leave you're going straight to Hell OP so I wouldn't do it if I were you.

kelly1

cufroige wrote: »

I wouldn't put too much faith in 'purgatory' or 'hell' reason being the fact that The RCC recently changed their stance on 'limbo'. Apparently that belief is expendable!! HOW can they expect to be taken seriously by anyone with half a mind? REALLY!?

Limbo was only ever a theory based on the fact that Jesus said we must be baptized to be saved. It was never dogma.

philologos

Can't people take the Catholic bashing elsewhere?

I'm not personally one myself, but it's getting rather tedious. Theres a huge thread on the abuse in AH.

As for people attacking the beliefs of Christianity based on this, I don't even think I want to begin going into how fallacious that is.

Coriolanus

Jakkass wrote: »

Can't people take the Catholic bashing elsewhere?

I'm not personally one myself, but it's getting rather tedious. Theres a huge thread on the abuse in AH.

As for people attacking the beliefs of Christianity based on this, I don't even think I want to begin going into how fallacious that is.

The thread was closed. See my sig for the judgement of the mod on the issue.

As for the Catholic bashing, well, as I pointed out, this particular thread doesn't belong in A&A since the OP isn't renouncing Christianity. Not sure where else the thread could go but the Christianity forum tbh.

philologos

the thread is still open:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055570352

Coriolanus

Ahh, that one. He must've missed it. Pm sent. Thanks Jakkass.

RealJohn

How much money will it take to take back what happened to the abuse victims?

Lots of people have had bad childhoods. Far too many of these bad childhoods have been as a result of abuse by members of the Catholic Chruch but they are a small minority of those who had bad childhoods. No amount of money will give them their childhoods back so why should they be compensated at all, by the Chruch or by the state?

The Church does great work. Its money is better spent continuing its work, not trying to right a wrong that can never be righted.

Should they come out and admit the scale of the abuse? Of course. But then, if they did, how many of you would really believe that they weren't still hiding something? I suspect that it would be a small minority, so what good would it do?

Should more people be prosecuted? Probably but that's not the Church's problem. It's up to the state to prosecute them. You can't blame the Church if the state won't prosecute.

It's very easy to be outraged at the Catholic Chruch but it's worth remembering that if it wasn't for the Church, this country wouldn't be half the country it is today. The Church educated us when we weren't allowed to be educated. The Church gave us community, something which is rapidly dwindling with the decline in people's faith. Is that a good thing?

I am proud to be a Catholic. I'm not proud of everything the Church has ever done but I am in no doubt that the Church has been a force for good all over the world much moreso than it's done bad things. People are weak. Every one of you has done something they're not proud of. The Church is run by people and so, It isn't perfect. That doesn't make it bad.

What are you gaining from hating the Church anyway? Does that make you happier? If it does, you have bigger problems than the victims of the abuse.

Coriolanus

RealJohn wrote: »

How much money will it take to take back what happened to the abuse victims?

No amount of money will give them their childhoods back so why should they be compensated at all, by the Chruch or by the state?

That is, shall we say, a perhaps misconceived idea of what the compensation is supposed to represent.
For example, a man kill another man, his going to prison doesn't bring man b back to life, but it's a punishment for the deed. You do something bad, you get punished. It's pretty fundamental to most theories of justice.
It's also worth noting that several of the more vocal victims have gone on record saying they'd rather the perpetrators be jailed rather than receive money.

Edit: Meant to mention - I've been deliberately brief above. It might be worth starting a thread in Humanities on the underlying principles of crime, punishment and compensation.

philologos

RealJohn: The tax payer is paying €1.35bn, the Catholic Church is paying €129mn. Compensation will be paid irrespective.

cufroige

I'm not bashing. I am angry for a start. The scandal cannot be denied, I know the church has done a lot of good also. I have family who are comforted by the religion. I just don't believe in a lot of the things I am required to. When I was getting married I debated some things with a priest on our pre wedding course when he told me I was an "a la carte" christian & a hypocrite for having a church ceremony. I was trying to practice my religion at the time but have always felt uneasy with it. I just don't believe certain things.

At my pre nuptual enquiry I was 2 hours with the priest talking things over
as we went through the questions being asked of me. As I answered each question honestly, the priest was good enough to humour me by discussing & understanding. Most of my answers were "no" but to tick that box was not something you do! (apparently, It would mean no church wedding, I couldn't do that to my family at that stage just because I had issues) So essentially I fail the criteria. My husband's Pre nuptual enquiry took 15 mins. He zoomed down the yes boxes.

I did have a church wedding. It was lovely, but I honestly felt like I was hiding something, doing something wrong. The church part is so important to some people but that has always made me feel uneasy.

I have 4 Godchildren (the first 2 from just after I made my confo) The 2nd 2 I cringed at the altar because again, when the question was asked "Do you renounce Satan?" there is only one right answer, and so I swallow mine and again feel like I'm hiding something!

I know good people, a lot of them do a lot of great work through the church, my local priest who is meeting with me to talk about this is a good person. I know I can talk to him honestly. I'm not bashing catholics, or good people, but I AM furious with the church 'in general' because I am sickened by what has been known by them for years but was 'hushed', and lives ruined, among other things. What about the "Good brothers & priests & nuns" during those times & now, what legacy have they left that will not be tarred because of the actions of the bad ones. How hard was / is it to live with this?

I cannot trust celibacy. I have to 'come out' & tell my priest how I feel and what I cannot accept or believe. I am a bit 'a la carte' when it comes to my beliefs, but that way I can truly believe. It makes me angry that anyone can tell me that doing so is 'wrong', and if it is then I don't want to be in that position. Even as a child I always asked why is "our" way right? What about other religions? They think they're right too. That early question left me with the notion that nobody knows "what really is", so I kind of adopted that. God to me is Love, it is something internal that lives independently with each person and that's what binds us. Badness is an absence of love somewhere within that person. I don't say prayers, I don't like the sound of them, I don't like religious language, but I do close my eyes and thank (my version of) God at times or ask that someone be kept safe or ask for support. Is that praying though? I don't offer anything in return, I just though of that now.

I don't know guys, I don't want to "offend" anyone, I just want to live in a way that makes sense to me without having the feeling that I'm 'doing it wrong' or being untruthful. I don't want to feel anxious next time I show up in church for an event. It's helpful posting here because it helps me organise my thoughts & concerns for my meeting with the priest.

PDN

Moderator's Note

This thread is about renouncing Catholicism, and posters are free to post here on that subject.

If you wish to discuss clerical child abuse then take it to the merged thread that exists on that subject. Any further posts on child abuse in this thread, unless they are primarily discussing renouncing Catholicism, will be deleted.

Run_to_da_hills

It would beat me the amount of people that would blatently renounce the Catholic Church but would end up at a funeral Mass in a Catholic Church when they die.

hiorta

Walked away from Catholicism 60 years ago - not a single regret - ever.
The various ploys to keep you locked down are utterly superfluous.

We will ALL reap as we have sown - without exception - regardless of beliefs.
The kingdom of Heaven (and Hell, of course) are within us.

It follows from these two basics that neither religion nor theologian can do anything other than talk. The buck stops here. It is our life and the consequences must be ours too.

There is one simple rule for Life - some call it the Golden Rule - do as you would be done by.
God is Love and not the intimidating monster religion would hold against us.
Enjoy your God given Life.

Biro

cufroige wrote: »

I'm not bashing. I am angry for a start. The scandal cannot be denied, I know the church has done a lot of good also. I have family who are comforted by the religion. I just don't believe in a lot of the things I am required to. When I was getting married I debated some things with a priest on our pre wedding course when he told me I was an "a la carte" christian & a hypocrite for having a church ceremony. I was trying to practice my religion at the time but have always felt uneasy with it. I just don't believe certain things.

At my pre nuptual enquiry I was 2 hours with the priest talking things over
as we went through the questions being asked of me. As I answered each question honestly, the priest was good enough to humour me by discussing & understanding. Most of my answers were "no" but to tick that box was not something you do! (apparently, It would mean no church wedding, I couldn't do that to my family at that stage just because I had issues) So essentially I fail the criteria. My husband's Pre nuptual enquiry took 15 mins. He zoomed down the yes boxes.

I did have a church wedding. It was lovely, but I honestly felt like I was hiding something, doing something wrong. The church part is so important to some people but that has always made me feel uneasy.

I have 4 Godchildren (the first 2 from just after I made my confo) The 2nd 2 I cringed at the altar because again, when the question was asked "Do you renounce Satan?" there is only one right answer, and so I swallow mine and again feel like I'm hiding something!

I know good people, a lot of them do a lot of great work through the church, my local priest who is meeting with me to talk about this is a good person. I know I can talk to him honestly. I'm not bashing catholics, or good people, but I AM furious with the church 'in general' because I am sickened by what has been known by them for years but was 'hushed', and lives ruined, among other things. What about the "Good brothers & priests & nuns" during those times & now, what legacy have they left that will not be tarred because of the actions of the bad ones. How hard was / is it to live with this?

I cannot trust celibacy. I have to 'come out' & tell my priest how I feel and what I cannot accept or believe. I am a bit 'a la carte' when it comes to my beliefs, but that way I can truly believe. It makes me angry that anyone can tell me that doing so is 'wrong', and if it is then I don't want to be in that position. Even as a child I always asked why is "our" way right? What about other religions? They think they're right too. That early question left me with the notion that nobody knows "what really is", so I kind of adopted that. God to me is Love, it is something internal that lives independently with each person and that's what binds us. Badness is an absence of love somewhere within that person. I don't say prayers, I don't like the sound of them, I don't like religious language, but I do close my eyes and thank (my version of) God at times or ask that someone be kept safe or ask for support. Is that praying though? I don't offer anything in return, I just though of that now.

I don't know guys, I don't want to "offend" anyone, I just want to live in a way that makes sense to me without having the feeling that I'm 'doing it wrong' or being untruthful. I don't want to feel anxious next time I show up in church for an event. It's helpful posting here because it helps me organise my thoughts & concerns for my meeting with the priest.

That's a much better post than your first one! The priest you're meeting will let you know what you need to know first hand. That'll be better info than what you'll get here.