The complete breakdown of politics in Ireland

paddyland

Here we are at this crossroads in Ireland, half the country staring ruination in the face, with not even the slightest leadership or even a hint which way to turn from here. The other half blindly trying to continue the great farce, if you don't talk about it, if you cover it up, it might go away, and we can all return to a land of milk and money, where, engrossed in our life of gluttony and consumption, we can cod ourselves that that's all that matters in life.

We have NO political party that I can see, whose word is worth anything, only some glib, self serving propaganda, with a design towards self preservation, or short term gain for one individual or vested interest, and nothing of substance towards the betterment of our country.

Fianna Fáil, a poison, a cancer that has ravaged this country for decades, leaving a wheezing skeleton gasping for life.

Fine Gael, a party so incompetent, that given the most disastrous government the western world has known in peace times, they still cannot muster the self belief or the support to topple them. A party whose idea of politics is to simply keep throwing eggs at the other side.

Sinn Féin, the masters of double speak, every one of whose spokespersons speak publicly like they have a gun jammed to the back of their neck.

The Green Party, green in every sense of the word, who sold their soul and their credibility for a brief sup at Bertie's poisoned chalice.

Labour, the best of a bad bunch, who in principle stand for some kind of social agenda, but who are hog tied by unions whose idea of progress is a return to the 1970s.

Brian Cowen's sole vision for the future is some kind of remote, whimsical hope that 'soon' we can return to the rapid growth that got us into so much trouble in the first place, making us the most uncompetitive economy in the civilised world. In other words, as soon as we can start packing the pockets of the stupid electorate with more filthy money, wherever it comes from, the sooner we can forget about all this and get on with the business of codding ourselves.

There are people, families, children, destitute in this modern 21st country today. People who are ruined. Who have no hope for the future. Have no hope even for tomorrow. Who have no leadership. Who don't even merit a mention in any of the whole series of mini budget self-aggrandizing speeches we are subject to. From a party whose sole purpose now is one long public relations exercise, to continue to try to cod people, even when it becomes a complete fantasy, a fairy tale.

The sole purpose of the banks right now is a return, as soon as humanly possible, to profitability, the profitability once enjoyed before the great cod was exposed. Their entire will is bent towards that. Hence every shilling that enters a bank, whether through recapitalisation, nationalisation, repossession of homes, businesses, or whatever, will disappear into a bottomless black hole, until that magical profitability is discovered once more. Homes will be repossessed, people will be jobless, destitute, but the great banking scam will go on. There is no agreement with a bank worth anything to anyone. Least of all the government. The hospital wards, the children's wards, the families facing homelessness and destitution, should all have had some kind of restitution before the banks were allowed to swallow up the last ounce of remaining lifeblood in this country.

Do you think there would be any enthusiasm in all this despair, for ordinary people, who are suffering untold horrors at the moment, to come together in some kind of mass support group, to help each other, and maybe eventually, to become some kind of alternative political force? Or is everyone just too broken in spirit, or worse self absorbed, to help their neighbour?

Is there a future? A REAL future, not just a return to the sham we once knew?

oscarBravo

What do you suggest?

paddyland

Exactly what I mentioned in my second last paragraph, ordinary people to take all this out of the hands of the corrupt political system whose sole interest is the preservation of the status quo.

However, I wonder if ordinary people can do such a thing, or if people's spirits are too broken at the moment?

I'd love to start such a movement, but I wouldn't have a clue where to begin or how to muster people.

I greatly fear though, that given another year of this rudderless confusion and hopelessness, that the nettle will be grasped by the more radical elements, bent on pure destruction for it's own sake. We need hope, not despair.

Riskymove

Its easy to overlook the fact that its "ordinary people" who have voted to keep this status quo over the years

we have been here before and came through it with no real change to the sysytem and I think this will happen again

paddyland

Too many people accept the status quo. It's grand as long as they are getting their pockets lined. When the money runs out, they complain, but live in hope of a day when they can return to getting their pockets lined. For too many politics goes no further than that. Auction politics.

But there are many people, who are not politically motivated, but who would wish for something more meaningful to vote for at election time.

Take me. Who do I vote for? My vote for Labour will be a protest vote. That is wholly the wrong reason to vote for anyone. But no political party has given me anything worth voting for. I simply must use my vote to reject FF and everything they stand for, at a loss for anything more positive to use it for.

I'd love to be part of something more meaningful. I suppose the Irish electorate are too fickle for anything else to be much of a success. At the first sign of money sloshing about, too many people would fall by the wayside.

I wish there was more than that.

P. Breathnach

paddyland wrote: »

Exactly what I mentioned in my second last paragraph, ordinary people to take all this out of the hands of the corrupt political system whose sole interest is the preservation of the status quo...

And what would ordinary people do to take things out of the hands of the corrupt political system?
Option 1: stage a revolution
Option 2: form a political party and contest elections
Option 3: ???

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

paddyland

Well if Option 2 doesn't happen, you'll end up with Option 1, only those who instigate Option 1 won't necessarily have the country's best interests at heart either.

I dunno, I despair sometimes, the Irish people as a race seem to be among the most self destructive on the planet. They won't do anything positive as a group, and if anyone else tries to, they are shot down.

Does anyone really believe that the 'boom' we enjoyed for ten years, when everyone could afford SUVs and foreign holidays, was an honest way of life? I don't. But it seems I am in the minority.

Dr Galen

OP your first post sounds like an Obama campaign speech. A launch statement for a new political party perhaps?

It appears that this is what your advocating, rather than a revolution of the French kind, or maybe I'm wrong?

paddyland

donegalfella wrote: »

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The electorate vote the same parties, with the same policies, time and time again because they are offered nothing different. I wish there were another political party, that stood, not for 'communist' policies, how dare you, but for honesty and decency and integrity and openness in public life, not just the promise of more or less auction politics, depending on how much money is floating around the system at any one time.

I don't know how to start a political party, and I'm not inclined to, I'm not a political person. I wish there was a political party I could have some allegiance to though. At the moment, there is none, and thus, apart from being a protest vote, my vote is going to be wasted, as are thousands of ill directed votes at the next election, by people who have no idea who to vote for.

FF, FG, Labour, Greens, Sinn Féin, all varying shades of the same colour, i.e. auction politics, PR stunts, soundbites, and who can throw the bigger, messier eggs.

Who do YOU suggest I vote for? More of the same? Give me something different.

meditraitor

paddyland wrote: »

Who do YOU suggest I vote for? More of the same? Give me something different.

You could vote for Libertass, great bunch of lads.


On a serious note I think you are missing the point, the partys are what we make them not what they make themselves. So the majority of people like what is on the table at the moment so there is no need for the guillotine just yet.

Dr Galen

paddyland wrote: »

for honesty and decency and integrity and openness in public life,

But OP, this should be the central tenet of all political parties, and then they should differentiate on the basis of their ideologies. I agree that not all parties live up to this ideal, but you will hardly get a party campaigning on the basis of lying, cheating ans stealing will you?

Apart from the above quote, what sort of things appeal to you? Would you like to see more or less state intervention? Do you think that thw state should be the provider of a multitude of services or should the state stand back and let the private sector provide things for the people? High tax or low tax?

the_syco

paddyland wrote: »

Exactly what I mentioned in my second last paragraph, ordinary people to take all this out of the hands of the corrupt political system whose sole interest is the preservation of the status quo.

Spot the anarchist?

=-=

You want a different party, go make one. Too much hard work? Spin the bottle, and pick an existant one.

loveissucide

Is Paddyland a member of any political party?There is something for everybody.

jmayo

I think a lot of people have looked across at America and watn some messiah like individual like Obama to come along to rescue us.
Meanwhile while we ait for this messiah, which will never happen in ireland because the great leaders either f**k off out of this narrowminded incestous backwater, become corrupted or focus their efforts on getting rich for themselves in business world.

Meanwhile we sit in the sh** becuase we hear voters saying the following:
I can't be bothered voting becuase none of the parties are green enough, economically liberal enough, socialist enough or nationalists enough for my tastes.

And OP I know you did say you will vote Labour and you haven't thankfully resort to one of the above lines.

But you did state they are basically all the same when it came to honesty, ethics, openness and this I take issue with.
FG and Labour are a hell of a lot more honest and ethical than what we have seen from the soldiers of destiny over the last 30 odd years.
Yes they have memebrs who have quesitons to answer but you don't find their members stuck in every dodgy deal form here to Timbuktu.
Also they have speedily removed people that have transgressed whereas FF bring them back in if they get a chance.

The Greens were once of that calibre, but their display over the last two years when they renaged on most of their policies and have backed a morally corrupt regime has put them in the same bed as FF.
The PDs were once a force for good when led by Dessie O'Malley.
You might not like their liberal agenda, but at least you could believe they would keep an eye on FF, but Harney and McDowell have destroyed that party as they bent over backwards to do anything needed to keep themselves and FF in power.

It shows how well FFs propaganda is working when people just utter they are all the same.
FF use it as an excuse for their unethical behaviour and we allow it.

It is up to the voters to tell the corrupt dodgy ones you are not welcome but what happens the Lowrys, the Aherns, the Flynns, the Cullens romp home top of the polls.
It is us, the voters that can stop that once and for all.

Instead of people saying it is no use voting, it is the opposite, it is time we must vote.
You might not like Kenny, but he is an alternative to the abject failure that is Cowen and the FF party.
We give him a chance and maybe he fails, but maybe he doesn't. We take a chance but at least we have given alesson to the political parties that we want something different and new.

Joey the lips

Paddy if you can lay down a manifesto that rivals anyof them and betters them where you disagree and manages to spend less.

Guess what! You have my vote!

No political party is the perfect solution, you just got to find the one that supports your ideals and principles and gives you what you need the best!

Happy voteing!

Permabear

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johnnyc

have to say an american system where we have a president who selects a team for business,education and also a senate who can vote would be the way to go...the business leader has massive experience in business and is respected by his/her peers. what u think

capsubsidy.com

paddyland wrote: »

Exactly what I mentioned in my second last paragraph, ordinary people to take all this out of the hands of the corrupt political system whose sole interest is the preservation of the status quo.
r.

ummm.. we went through the exact same mess in the '80's and the "ordinary people" reelected the same idiots to make a balls of it again.

Better civics education would be a a good start. It's not going to change things over night but we might end up with an electorate who knows what's going on around them and not vote for someone just because their old man did.

meglome

jmayo wrote: »

I think a lot of people have looked across at America and watn some messiah like individual like Obama to come along to rescue us.
Meanwhile while we ait for this messiah, which will never happen in ireland because the great leaders either f**k off out of this narrowminded incestous backwater, become corrupted or focus their efforts on getting rich for themselves in business world.

Meanwhile we sit in the sh** becuase we hear voters saying the following:
I can't be bothered voting becuase none of the parties are green enough, economically liberal enough, socialist enough or nationalists enough for my tastes.

And OP I know you did say you will vote Labour and you haven't thankfully resort to one of the above lines.

But you did state they are basically all the same when it came to honesty, ethics, openness and this I take issue with.
FG and Labour are a hell of a lot more honest and ethical than what we have seen from the soldiers of destiny over the last 30 odd years.
Yes they have memebrs who have quesitons to answer but you don't find their members stuck in every dodgy deal form here to Timbuktu.
Also they have speedily removed people that have transgressed whereas FF bring them back in if they get a chance.

The Greens were once of that calibre, but their display over the last two years when they renaged on most of their policies and have backed a morally corrupt regime has put them in the same bed as FF.
The PDs were once a force for good when led by Dessie O'Malley.
You might not like their liberal agenda, but at least you could believe they would keep an eye on FF, but Harney and McDowell have destroyed that party as they bent over backwards to do anything needed to keep themselves and FF in power.

It shows how well FFs propaganda is working when people just utter they are all the same.
FF use it as an excuse for their unethical behaviour and we allow it.

It is up to the voters to tell the corrupt dodgy ones you are not welcome but what happens the Lowrys, the Aherns, the Flynns, the Cullens romp home top of the polls.
It is us, the voters that can stop that once and for all.

Instead of people saying it is no use voting, it is the opposite, it is time we must vote.
You might not like Kenny, but he is an alternative to the abject failure that is Cowen and the FF party.
We give him a chance and maybe he fails, but maybe he doesn't. We take a chance but at least we have given alesson to the political parties that we want something different and new.

I couldn't agree more.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

meglome

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well as much as I'd happily settle for some honesty in our government an Obama like person wouldn't be an issue as long as he tried to implement his election promises.

loveissucide

Obama isn't a self-appointed Messiah.The general public are that desperate for a quick fix they consider him one.

jmayo

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ah now donegalfella did I say we needed a messiah ?
But some people are looking at US and saying none of our leaders are that charismatic, passionate and inspiring :rolleyes:

BTW I don't think he ever said HE was a messiah, I think he always said we rather than I would bring change.
Remember the slogan YES WE CAN ?
So less of the self apppointed mullarkey

I presume anyway you would be a Republican fan adn hence your comment ?
Just think you could have had Sarah Palin, a self appointed nutjob moron, in there :eek:

loveissucide wrote: »

Obama isn't a self-appointed Messiah.The general public are that desperate for a quick fix they consider him one.

Exactly.

Dannyboy83

OP, you remind me of myself when I came here first.

I can feel the anger and the disgust in your post.
I've seen the same thing a good few times since I started reading this board. The long term posters here have probably seen it a million times I'd say.

Anyway, I will save you a few months and tell you straight, don't waste your time.

The political system in this country is broken, and its not going to change.
If it were going to change, it would have already happened.
Its structured in such a way as to make it near impossible for young, fresh outsiders to gain any power.
Its quite like the church, you have to do your time, work your way up, close your eyes at the right time, get your hands dirty so you're not a threat to anyone else and bend over for the whip.

The only option I could see as a step forward, would be the option that DonegalFella reguarily talks about, i.e. Rolling back Government massively and getting them out of our lives where possible, just the bare minimum involvement where absolutely necessary.
I don't know enough to go into detail about how that would work, but it seems to be a viable option.
I just can't see how any other option will work.

This country and its population are too small. Everyone knows everyone.
Different laws for rich and poor, connected and unconnected etc.
Our watchmen don't watch, they just nod and golden handshake.

Remember that recent senate debate hosted by Pat Kenny. The common theme was that they all believed it was their divine right to be in power. To them it was a foregone conclusion and winning over the audience/electorate was as irrelevant as the toxic debt on Anglos books before FF cashed in.

Politicans are generally self serving and live a different reality to the average person on an average wage.
They just can't seem to empathise with the average person, have to be ruthless to gett where they are (or family name etc.) and when they get the chance to grab the cash, they jump at it.
Fair to say its not that different in other countries, but other countries with similar systems generally have a large population to stiffle out some of the nepotisim and the corruption.

The only way realisitc way I know of which would break through the current culture of political corruption would be to ban any relative of a current politican from serving in the future.
Hopefully, FF will understand they will have to do that anyway in order to ever regain an iota of support.

When I heard that recent garbage about the blasphemy law, I figured FF would try to utilise it against anyone who spoke up against their incompetence.
You should read Pravda or any of the old Soviet propaganda, and then compare it to the Irish Political parties.

Could you imagine Michael Martin (who I consider to be a good politican) speaking up against the nonsense in FF and Clowen's incompetence?
I couldn't.