New Licensing procedure

Tackleberry.

Anyone know the new licensing procedure, what firearms does it cover? Pistols, shotgun, rifle.... all i would think,but anyone know the facts? asking because i'm wondering how hard its going be to be able to keep my revolver.

Sparks

Nobody knows yet Tackleberry bar the Minister. He's made comments in speeches (like saying that character references will be required) but there's been nothing solid, and probably won't be until after the Misc Bill is passed.

It wasn't me!

With regard to stuff like that, what's the legal position for your referees? Should your firearms cert be revoked for any reason, what's their position? Do they face penalties? Or is it enough that their reference and recommendation is made in good faith (assuming it is)? And if it weren't, would they face punishment, or how do they intend to demonstrate bad faith in someone's recommendation? It sounds a bit wishy-washy to me.

Sparks

If it's like other character references, they're only liable if you can prove in a court that they lied about the person they were testifying to. In other words, if there ever was a really bad day, the character references wouldn't do anything to stop it. Besides which, if druggie toerag #1 gives a character reference for druggie toerag #2 so druggie toerag #2 can get a licenced firearm, I think we'll be so far into bizzaro-land that we'll have other stranger things to worry about...

hk

Correct me if I am wrong, but the new three year licensing scheme is part of new law and as a result ALL FAC holders will have to reapply for a licence. My reading is that restricted firearms (pistols etc) will be in what is "Group 1" and will first have to reapply, but ALL firearms holders will reapply in subsequent groups. Therefor my reading of the act is that all FAC's in the country will reapply instead of renueing, and as a result ALL FAC holders will be subject to new guidelines and regulations when reapplying for a FAC for ANY TYPE of FIREARM.

Sparks

That's pretty much what I read into it as well hk.

bigred

Just a technical point on the Bill here.. it regularly mentioned that the Commissioner, Minister, Milk Man, etc. could issue 'Guidelines' for licencing.
Guidelines aren't Requirements or Rules, hence could not be enforced??

Have I caught a dose of Legalese thanks to all these new regulations??

Jonty

From an operational point of view, the application will still be placed in a drawer for a minimum of 6 weeks.:D

sfakiaman

Since I've held firearms licences in ROI for the last 28 years would the superintendents of the various districts be suitable for character references.

hk

bigred wrote: »

Just a technical point on the Bill here.. it regularly mentioned that the Commissioner, Minister, Milk Man, etc. could issue 'Guidelines' for licencing.
Guidelines aren't Requirements or Rules, hence could not be enforced??

Have I caught a dose of Legalese thanks to all these new regulations??

The bill will give weight to the guidelines so therefor they will be complletely enforceable. IE if your application for a FAC is turned down on the basis of a guideline and you decide to appeal through the courts, I would imagine that the courts will uphold the decision not to grant as the guideline was made under the provisions of the act. This is one of my fundemental issues with the Bill, that part and the part which allows the minister to ban any type of firearm if he so wishes essentially means that any minister of the day can decide firearms law as he wishes without having to put any changes through the Dail. The only challange I would envisage under the circumstances you outlined would be to challange the constitutaonality etc of a guideline as a whole, which I would not imagine any minister would leave himself open to. IE challanges to guidelines would need to be on a policy level with sufficient grounds to challange rather than on a case by case basis.

Sparks

hk wrote: »

The bill will give weight to the guidelines so therefor they will be complletely enforceable.

Actually, no, they won't be, bigred has it right. The Supreme Court ruled in dunne v donoghue that noone could issue new blanket preconditions for licencing that the Superintendents had to enforce, because that was in effect giving whomever drafted the preconditions the power to amend legislation which was a power reserved for the Oireachtas.

In other words, if you let the Commissioner or the Minister draft a new rule that says only people with red shoes can have licences, then they have in effect rewritten the Firearms Acts without drafting a bill and having it approved by the Oireachtas and that's not constitutional.

Guidelines on the other hand, so long as they're not rules can be issued by anyone - Commissioner, Minister, boards.ie moderator, anyone. (Yes, I mean anyone - the key difference between rule and guideline is you can tell a guideline where to get bent ).

Sikamick

Having been in Bisley for the Phoenix Show over the weekend, one finds the news re License fees and New Licensing procedures totally depressing.

I was at the Phoenix Show last year so I new what to expect, we had 12 VCRAI members attend the show most of which had never been there before, they where amazed.

Amazed at what is available to The British shooter, Black Powder firearms, Vintage Classic type firearms, Modern firearms and yes pistols all be it long barrelled Revolver and semi auto Pistols also metallic reloading.

I spoke to a number of British firearms dealers and shooters re UK firearms Law and they said it is very strict but when they were told of our situation they said its worse than draconian. They could not believe the way the amendments to the firearms act and the miscellaneous bill has been put together also that it is included within the Criminal Justice bill.

Details of referee required for Firearms UK license
http://www.surrey.police.uk/contact/flic_reference_form125.pdf

License Application Form UK
http://www.surrey.police.uk/contact/flic_form101.pdf

Some general information and fee cost
http://www.surrey.police.uk/contact/firearms.asp

I think that the Irish shooting fraternity would be more than happy to have the UK firearms licensing system taking all that is available to them. Opinions Please?

Michael O'Connor
Secretary to The Vintage Classic Rifle Association of Ireland
Also Dublin Target Sports Club

aka Sikamick

Grizzly 45

Dunno how they can say that in the UK our laws are any worse .
Considering that the UK is becoming gun crime ridden,Politically Correct invasive police surveillance state,and we are copying mostly their shennanigans in our liscensing laws.[And just about everything else that is rotten and bad for society:(]
The only positive things I see that the UK has to offer on this is;

One man one liscense for five[?]years
Reloading & BP being easier to do.
Airguns under 12ft/lbs[whatever that is in the new money] and Xbows being off ticket.[For however long that will last.]
A shame considering that at the turn of the 20th century GB was more liberal than the USA is today on firearms ownership:eek:.

Personally,would rather see somthing more on the line of French or Spanish firearms/hunting laws than anything from the UK.

It wasn't me!

The UK would be a god template to start with, but lose the silly clauses telling you what you can't shoot with your rifle (Not got fox listed for your .243? Well then you can't shoot one with it even if it's tap-dancing in front of you!) and various things like that. Somewhere between ours this time last year and theirs now would be fine.