a fatal mistake.

old boy

i have made a fatal mistake this season, every year EVERYTHING that came into the the garden got a bath in a ditane solution, this year for some reason (it must be my age) i never done it, now i have an outbreak of black spot on my roses, folks prevention is better than the cure, do not make my mistake yours.

Gordon Gekko

Black spot is hardly fatal for roses. I prefer to live with a bit of black spot on my roses than to go about dousing everything liberally in potentially toxic chemicals.

bmaxi

Though I am not an "organic" gardener I have never found chemicals to be effective against blackspot. Good housekeeping and good feeding is a better course.

Quartet

bmaxi wrote: »

Though I am not an "organic" gardener I have never found chemicals to be effective against blackspot. Good housekeeping and good feeding is a better course.

Gordon Gekko wrote: »

Black spot is hardly fatal for roses. I prefer to live with a bit of black spot on my roses than to go about dousing everything liberally in potentially toxic chemicals.

Fatal Indeed!

SECTION 11 - TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION

11.1 Health Effects

Swallowed

Main hazard of ingestion is aspiration of swallowed liquid into lungs, causing chemical
pneumonitis.

Eye Contact

Irritating, causing redness and burning sensation.

Skin Contact

Irritating, causing redness and burning sensation.

Inhaled

Harmful by inhalation. The vapour is irritating to the upper respiratory tract. May cause nausea, dizziness and
narcosis. Extreme exposure may result in unconsciousness, and possibly death. Breathing the vapour or
spray mist is harmful and may cause an asthma like reaction. Persons suffering from chronic respiratory
problems should not use this product.


Chronic or Other

Prolonged and repeated contact with the skin may irritate, and cause dermatitis. Prolonged overexposure to
the solvents (inhalation and skin contact) may cause effects to the central nervous system, liver, urinary,
bloodforming, cardiovascular and reproductive systems. Over-exposure to isocyanate, especially during
spraying operations without the necessary precautions, entails the risk of concentration dependent irritating
effects on eyes, nose, throat and respiratory tract. Delayed appearance of the complaints and development
of hyper sensitivity (difficult breathing, coughing, asthma) are possible. Hyper sensitive persons may suffer
from these effects even at low isocyanate concentrations including concentrations below TLV. In case of
longer contact with skin, tanning and irritating effects are possible. See section 3.2 for other chronic health
risks.


lovely.....

Safety Data Sheet Link

old boy

is not ditaine used to spray potatoes with, then we are all in trouble

John mac

Those msds sheets always give the BEWARE you will die message, to cover themselves.

If you eat 2 kilos of salt you would probably die also.:D


If used correctly there is no problem.

salmon7

Yes, Dithane. Prevention is better than a load of blight ridden potatoes.
Tried the no chemical route on my spuds for several years and it seems to have worked. Several blight warnings this year though on Met Eireann. Weather is ideal for it. Spuds not lookin so great this year....:(

The Sweeper

Part of the whole gardening experience is that some years are better than others. If you take an organic approach to your garden and use a number of different plans - companion planting, encouraging 'good' insects and wildlife, using sacrificial crops for the 'baddies' you can't weed out - your garden generally will be a healthier, stronger organism.

If you disturb that balance through extensive use of pesticides, fungicides or other chemicals, then indeed, the year you don't use a chemical you leave your garden wide open to attack - the organic balance isn't there and your garden has come to rely on chemicals for its health.

salmon7

On the whole, the garden is looking good. Spuds aren't as bad as all that.


Anyone got any tips for getting/growing good asparagus. Have had no success with it. Tried buying several different rhizomes in packets... nothing came of it.

Saw some healthy asparagus in 1L pots in a garden centre and I'm reeling that I never bought it. It looked very well established and could take the shock of being planted in new sandy soil.

Quartet

John mac wrote: »

Those msds sheets always give the BEWARE you will die message, to cover themselves.

If you eat 2 kilos of salt you would probably die also.:D

If used correctly there is no problem.

I agree that

If used correctly there is no problem

- however often many other garden chemicals are treated like salt with little or no safety considered needed

As the op detailed

every year EVERYTHING that came into the the garden got a bath in a ditane solution

Nice! where is this nice bathwater dumped following ministrations? PPE?

As for safety....its quite the opposite really!
MSDS are a legal requirement that give the techical, chemical and biological specifications of all compound chemicals

Dithane is composed of a number of different ingredients including:

Mancozeb
Calcium lignosulfonate
Hexamethylene tetramine
Ethylene thiourea

It is a stated respiratory and skin irritant that requires careful handling

On contact with skin it is advised to remove material from skin immediately by washing with soap and plenty of water. Remove contaminated clothing and shoes while washing.

Salt (Sodium chloride) on the otherhand one of the vital minerals needed for optimal bodily function. It is indeed toxic to most land plants but makes up a large part of extracellular fluid of many multicellular orgarisms including humans!

Last time I looked I dont remember seeing Mancozeb, Calcium lignosulfonate, Hexamethylene tetramine or Ethylene thiourea being sold for sprinkling on your food though maybe I'm not in with the fashion...

The problem with these chemicals largely centers on the application and disposal of the same

By the time you have eaten your spuds most of the active compounds will have broken down so persuming that things havn't been drenched in the stuff you should be ok

just dont ever persume that anything is harmless....

John mac

Quartet wrote: »

just don't ever presume that anything is harmless....

100% agree

old boy

some posters are under a misconception,
i do not use chemicals, except on the day that plants arrive,
i use only rainwater i have several barrels of the stuff,
i use only organic fertilizer,
i do not use weedkiller,
i feed the plants weekly,
weak plants get special treatment,
also
as i have a mobility problem, collecting diseased leaves from more than 30 rose bushes morning and evening is not a pleasent experience,
my garden is a prize winning garden both from an organic and astetic point of view,
it would be a waste of both mine and the judges time if i entered this year with a diseased garden

The Sweeper

Ah, now see, it's because you used the words "everything got a bath", which made us think you're out with your fungus gun every weekend, showering the place with chemicals and shouting "I love the smell of napalm in the morning!"

I try not to use preventative chemicals. I like to bulk plant pungent herbs (rosemary, lavander), companion plant (marigolds amongst other things), I have left weeds in the more feral areas of my garden for the bees and butterflies (mainly pattersons curse/salvation jane - rather leave them for the insects than poison them off - and when I'm ready I'll dig them out and replace with someone else for the insects) and will use curative chemicals in isolated doses if I have to (but in the past have just discarded or destroyed the plant rather than spray it.)

That includes good old dilute washing up liquid and white oil formulas.

I find that if you introduce the alchemy into the feeding aspect of the garden, (soil testing, adjusting nutrients and minerals for the requirements of different plants, root and foliar feeding with dilute seaweed or fish emulsions etc.) the garden itself tends to be a lot more resistant to pest attacks than if you take the sanitising approach.

Just to be clear, are you saying that you don't spray your roses at all, you just spray new plants to prevent spread of diseases from the nursery? And that this year you didn't spray the blow-ins, and now your organically grown roses are sickening?

old boy

the only time my plants get a bath with a ditaine solution is when they arrive after being purchased, this year i did not and i am now playing the price, i have a wild area at the back of my garden which is untouched year after year, i have several almost tame hedgehogs, they come to the backdoor and eat dog nuts every night, i use nettles left in water for 8 weeks then diluted as fertiliser, i use the leaves of rubarb left in water to keep my few brassicas pest free, i grow lettuce in boxes i spray them with a VERY light salt solution to keep them pest free,i make my own compost, i have my own supply of chicken manure, also a little horse manure, if the chemical companys were depending on me they would be like the economy.