Last bus did not stop

breadmonkey

I know there are a few Dublin Bus drivers knocking around here so I thought I'd post it up to get their views and the views of anyone else who's interested.

Last night I made my way to Donnybrook to get the last bus home. For those of you that don't know, there's an underage disco at Wesley on every Friday and Saturday night. So naturally enough, there were loads of knackers with mullets, people drunk etc. knocking around.

I was at the stop right outside the rugby ground; the closest stop to the disco. The last bus came along and simply whizzed by.

Now while I understand that maybe the driver doesn't want to stop and pick up a load of people who could well start trouble, I don't think it's acceptable that others get left stranded. I had to shell out €25 to get home in a taxi (or else wait around for over an hour for a Nitelink at Donnybrook church that may not have stopped anyway for the same reasons).

If the bus isn't going to stop at that particular stop then I expect some notification of same.

What is Dublin Bus policy with regard to this matter?

I anticipate that someone will come on and say something along the lines of "The driver has the right to decide when and where to stop the bus as he sees fit to ensure the safety of all passengers yada yada yada" but this is clearly not an acceptable response given that this scenario is a bi weekly occurrence and all drivers would be aware of it since the garage is a stone's throw away.

meanmachine3

breadmonkey wrote: »

I know there are a few Dublin Bus drivers knocking around here so I thought I'd post it up to get their views and the views of anyone else who's interested.

Last night I made my way to Donnybrook to get the last bus home. For those of you that don't know, there's an underage disco at Wesley on every Friday and Saturday night. So naturally enough, there were loads of knackers with mullets, people drunk etc. knocking around.

I was at the stop right outside the rugby ground; the closest stop to the disco. The last bus came along and simply whizzed by.

Now while I understand that maybe the driver doesn't want to stop and pick up a load of people who could well start trouble, I don't think it's acceptable that others get left stranded. I had to shell out €25 to get home in a taxi (or else wait around for over an hour for a Nitelink at Donnybrook church that may not have stopped anyway for the same reasons).

If the bus isn't going to stop at that particular stop then I expect some notification of same.

What is Dublin Bus policy with regard to this matter?

being the devils advocate did you put your hand out in plenty of time also was there alot of play acting like teens/ kids holding each other back. this is a common occurance where a kid would want a bus and his mates hold him back from putting out his hand etc.
if your hand wass out in plenty of time and there was no play acting then the driver should've stopped. i cant speak for that area as i dont work it.

breadmonkey wrote: »

If the bus isn't going to stop at that particular stop then I expect some notification of same.
What is Dublin Bus policy with regard to this matter?

T.B.H. i would've expected an inspector to be in the area especially if there was a big crowd of drunken teens waiting for a bus. i know at some rowdy schools there are inspectors there to make sure theres no trouble.the policy is the driver should've stopped unless something went wrong along the line somewhere and was instructed not to stop. sometimes this does happen. eg. if the driver before the last bus had trouble he would've called it in and a call would've been put out for buses not to stop at a particular stop.

breadmonkey wrote: »

I anticipate that someone will come on and say something along the lines of "The driver has the right to decide when and where to stop the bus as he sees fit to ensure the safety of all passengers yada yada yada"

personally i only make the decison on what action i take when i pull into a stop.

breadmonkey

Thanks for the reply.

I definitely had my hand out in plenty of time. As I said, there were a good few people around but it was all quite subdued really and there was certainly no messing like the stuff you described.

The bus that I tried to flag down was a 46A. The driver never even moved into the bus lane; he just kept on going. About three minutes later a 10 came by and when my mate tried to flag it down (was waving his arms) the driver ignored him and kept going.

Our man in Havana

Complain to DB and see what they have to say.

jaffa20

Crazy behaviour from dublin bus. Definitely complain with the exact details.

This happened to my friend before and just to spite dublin bus, he sent a long letter to them with a receipt for a 50euro taxi fare and they sent him a cheque :P

Aard

I had a similar problem one night standing at the UCD flyover on the N11 one night. About 3 busses didn't even bother going up the flyover, just because there'd be rowdy students there. When I walked down the road to the next stop, with some students following me, the driver didn't stop there either and just went past.

mikemac

I think I read on boards, probably in UCD forum that bus services were suspended in the UCD area over late night trouble a few months back.
Possibly it was last year, I'm not quite sure.

Since three drivers skipped your stop, I'd say there were instructed not to stop there.
Hey, I could be completly wrong, just seems a fair assumption to me.

breadmonkey

Bond-007 wrote: »

Complain to DB and see what they have to say.

Think I'll do that. Wish to God I'd gotten a receipt for the taxi! I'll post any response I get.

meanmachine3

mikemac wrote: »

I think I read on boards, probably in UCD forum that bus services were suspended in the UCD area over late night trouble a few months back.
Possibly it was last year, I'm not quite sure.

Since three drivers skipped your stop, I'd say there were instructed not to stop there.
Hey, I could be completly wrong, just seems a fair assumption to me.

this was down to anti-social behaviour be the students of all people. i believe an inspector was also assaulted in there at one stage.

Mimikyu

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Zoney

I was left standing in Castletroy, Limerick for well over an hour one cold Halloween evening after Bus Éireann withdrew *ALL* citybus services without notice just because of attacks on one route. This was at the not so dramatic hour of 7:30 PM!

As far as I'm concerned this kind of nonsense shouldn't happen - there should be sufficient policing cover that if an incident happens or is likely to happen, the transport company can call the guards for support.

The truth is that Ireland is barely policed at all.

Gauge

Something similar happened to me with the 46A. Was in town and the last bus just passed a group of us at the stop where I'd been waiting for almost an hour- no idea why none had passed before then. There was no messing or anything going on, just me and a few others. Had to get a taxi, it looked like the driver hadn't stopped in the city centre at all as there were crowds at every 46A stop we passed. I sent an email to Dublin Bus about it. In fairness to them they did check it out but the driver swore that he stopped and there was CCTV footage from Donnybrook to verify that the buses did their rounds. They offered to reimburse me for the taxi but I didn't have a receipt so they sent me a €17 bus ticket which suited me as I use the bus a good bit, and the taxi had only cost me €15.

I was happy to be reimbursed but I got the impression that there are definitely some drivers that chance things and get away with it. I definitely wasn't the only person stranded that night but apparently I WAS the only person to inform Dublin Bus about it- maybe if more people had they would have taken it a bit more seriously, I don't know.

So yeah- definitely get on to Dublin Bus about it!

the boss of me

breadmonkey wrote: »

For those of you that don't know, there's an underage disco at Wesley on every Friday and Saturday night. So naturally enough, there were loads of knackers with mullets, people drunk etc. knocking around.

There's your answer right there ! Drunk teenagers are a nuisance and drivers have to consider the safety and comfort of other passengers , so the bus will won't stop for them..simple as that. It's not just the wezz though, it's also Belfield and the whole N11 QBC..

The only advice I would give is that if you're waiting at the stop and there are drunks or muppets there that you move along to the next stop.

PS .. Just to add insult to injury, the taxi driver must have overcharged you as well, because there is no way it should have cost €25 from de wez to anywhere along the 46a route. Maybe when you can complain to DB you can also complain to the taxi regulater.:rolleyes:

breadmonkey

There's your answer right there ! Drunk teenagers are a nuisance and drivers have to consider the safety and comfort of other passengers , so the bus will won't stop for them..simple as that. It's not just the wezz though, it's also Belfield and the whole N11 QBC..

I acknowledged that this might be the case but it's still unacceptable to leave people stranded. The bus driver can pull in and then decide who to let on.

PS .. Just to add insult to injury, the taxi driver must have overcharged you as well, because there is no way it should have cost €25 from de wez to anywhere along the 46a route. Maybe when you can complain to DB you can also complain to the taxi regulater.:rolleyes:

The 46A goes all the way to Dun Laoghaire! Don't know what bargain taxis you've been getting!

SickCert

The last time i was in this area late there was a young Garda there de-canning them animals at the stop. Send in your letter to DB as the more they receive the more they may act towards protecting the decent passengers from the drunken scum of the N11.

I was off the road last night by 830pm, but by this time several stops had 'dont stop' orders on them from the radio controllers.

bk

SickCert wrote: »

I was off the road last night by 830pm, but by this time several stops had 'dont stop' orders on them from the radio controllers.

But shouldn't the controllers be calling the Gardai to these stops, to have them cleared, so that ordinary passengers can continue to use the bus?

Easy Rider

I think some drivers must be pulling a fast one. It use to happen to me with the 4 coming home from work...all of a sudden the 4 that I had been waiting for 30 minutes in the city centre would become a 4C...the timetable would have no mention of the 4C and the driver would never give an explanation as to why the bus had changed...

Also getting the 4 into work on a Friday morning, waited 35 minutes for a bus that is meant to be every ten, then decided to get a taxi like everyone else at my stop.....not sure how much longer the wait was...but this is why I now drive or cycle to work, totally unreliable service and unexplained no show buses....only use the bus when I am having a few after work...everytime it is a nightmare...

spareman

A few years back I pulled into a stop with about 5/6 women in there early 20s, They each had a can of beer in there hand, which I insisted were left outside the bus, that was fine, one of them was carrying a gear bag which I had a feeling contained more supplies, They sat upstairs down the back of the bus so I couldn't see what was happening, anyway 30/40 mins later I drop the girls off in O Connell st and head up towards parnell square, as I take the bend at the top of O Connell street, liquid begins to tricle down through the radio over my head, by the time I reach parnell square the tricle becomes a serious flood. When I finally got to a safe place to pull in I was covered in 5/6 womens urine, definitly the most disgusting thing that has ever happened to me.

Called control who wanted me to work my last journey back out!!:eek:
Finally agreed to drive the bus back to the depot seen as how I was already covered in piss, one of the other drivers went to his house and got me clothes and a towel while I scrubed in the shower for 2 hours.

Anyway since then and possibly more to do with dublin bus managements response to the incident, I have a rule of not stopping where I can see any open beer, Ive passed numerous stops and have never heard anything back from management about people complaining, but I look forward to the day I get called up over it.

I wasn't driving the bus in Donnybrook, but If i was I would not have stopped either.

breadmonkey

spareman wrote: »

Anyway since then and possibly more to do with dublin bus managements response to the incident, I have a rule of not stopping where I can see any open beer, Ive passed numerous stops and have never heard anything back from management about people complaining, but I look forward to the day I get called up over it.

I wasn't driving the bus in Donnybrook, but If i was I would not have stopped either.

So based on one bad experience you've decided to cop out and not stop if you can see any open beer even if it means others are left stranded? Why not pull in and not let anyone on who has open cans?

I would hope to God that if you were called up over this, reason would prevail and you would be destroyed by management for using that anecdote as a reason for abandoning passengers.

Mimikyu

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aliveandkicking

Spareman that's a shocking story :mad: Just wondering how it leaked through the upstairs floor right onto you? Through the periscope? It must have been an older type bus because all the newer buses don't have a periscope, they have a cctv camera. Just wondering do you still not stop if you are driving a newer bus where there is no chance of piss coming down through a periscope?

maxxie

build a bridge

breadmonkey

maxxie wrote: »

build a bridge

Could you clarify who you believe should be building this bridge?

meanmachine3

Captain Morgan wrote: »

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while this has never happened to me i've heard similar stories across the board, i think it was common on the RH type bus. theres also a risk factor here captain. in some cases if you refuse pasengers with beer/alcohol it'll turn nasty pretty quick so some drivers have to weigh up their options of either getting two passengers on or the threat of abuse to assault. sometimes a driver might approach a stop very slowly then pull away if theres a sniff of trouble. we also have to consider the passengers on board as well as the ones at the stops.

Captain Morgan wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

unfortunatley captain it's all to common for buses to be pulled because of a handful of scum. be it stone throwing, anti social behaviour, open season like in blanch a few years back where there was a sniper taking pot shots at the buses.all it takes is for one person to smash two windows on seperate buses and thousands of passengers will to suffer for the day. T.B.H. this type of behaviour is common in all walks of life across the city. it's very rare that you'd meet a dublin bus driver who hasn't had at least one window put through.

spareman

breadmonkey wrote: »

So based on one bad experience you've decided to cop out and not stop if you can see any open beer even if it means others are left stranded? Why not pull in and not let anyone on who has open cans?

I would hope to God that if you were called up over this, reason would prevail and you would be destroyed by management for using that anecdote as a reason for abandoning passengers.

I could not stop and then refuse passengers who have cans, as to do so would put my personal safety and the safety of passengers already onboard at risk and to be honest I dont get paid enough for that, While I feel sympatetic towards ordinary law abiding passengers left behind they obviously understand why I dont stop because none have complained so far.

As I say I look forward to the day management try to discipline me for failing to stop, I will let you know how it goes.

aliveandkicking wrote: »

Spareman that's a shocking story :mad: Just wondering how it leaked through the upstairs floor right onto you? Through the periscope? It must have been an older type bus because all the newer buses don't have a periscope, they have a cctv camera. Just wondering do you still not stop if you are driving a newer bus where there is no chance of piss coming down through a periscope?

It was an AX type bus, brand new at the time, complete with cctv and still nothing was ever done to catch the people involved.

maxxie wrote: »

build a bridge

A bridge over troubled water?

breadmonkey wrote: »

Could you clarify who you believe should be building this bridge?

Think his talking to me.

aliveandkicking

spareman wrote: »

It was an AX type bus, brand new at the time, complete with cctv and still nothing was ever done to catch the people involved.

I'm puzzled how it leaked down into the drivers cab so? Did they make a hole in the floor or something?

puzzled

The nuremburg trials after WW2 established the precident of collective guilt. If you are standing at a stop along side a load of piss heads, you are considered a piss head.
Either move to a empty stop and wait for the bus or get a taxi.

puzzled

When you are on the bottom deck of a bus look up. You can see the seam's where the ceiling panels join together, piss from upstairs has no problem dripping down from these gaps.
"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" once you get pissed on you won't want it to happen again!
Fact is you passengers only have yourself to blame, you see someone pissing upstairs and you laught or are silently disgusted, but you never ever bring it to the attention of the driver. Well maybe when you are getting of the bus, but too late the damage is done!
Getting soaked in piss only the once is enough for most drivers, so why pick up a bunch of rowdy pissheads and get soaked again!

anonymous_joe

Tbh, I live about ten minutes walk from that spot, and if I was in your situation I'd have walked to another bus stop. There are some beside the bus station, two minutes walk down from Wesley, and there's less chance of a bus driver speeding by there...

breadmonkey

puzzled wrote: »

The nuremburg trials after WW2 established the precident of collective guilt. If you are standing at a stop along side a load of piss heads, you are considered a piss head.
Either move to a empty stop and wait for the bus or get a taxi.

Well that's the stupidest post I've read in a long time. Clap clap.

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Tbh, I live about ten minutes walk from that spot, and if I was in your situation I'd have walked to another bus stop. There are some beside the bus station, two minutes walk down from Wesley, and there's less chance of a bus driver speeding by there...

I know that but I was barely in time to get the bus. I think that's kind of irrelevant anyway as the driver should have stopped there as well.

Also, I'd like to point out that not a single person had a visible alcoholic drink - they were all underage and there were gardaí at the entrance to Wesley about 20m up the road.

bk

puzzled wrote: »

Fact is you passengers only have yourself to blame, you see someone pissing upstairs and you laught or are silently disgusted, but you never ever bring it to the attention of the driver. Well maybe when you are getting of the bus, but too late the damage is done!

What a terrible attitude to have, to lump all passengers, your customers, in with a few scum bags.

The bus not stopping will simply turn the ordinary decent passengers away from using public transport and into their cars and will leave the buses for just the scum bags.

This will result in even more bus drivers losing their jobs as passenger numbers continue to drop.

If there is trouble on a particular route then DB should be calling the Gardai and security guys (like on the Dart) to that route to sort it out, not pulling buses from service.

AlekSmart

What a terrible attitude to have, to lump all passengers, your customers, in with a few scum bags.

The bus not stopping will simply turn the ordinary decent passengers away from using public transport and into their cars and will leave the buses for just the scum bags.

bk`s point is true indeed,however the "attitude" generally comes from experience and in the case of the situation on the N11 corridor it has long since passed the "Few scum bags" point.

The reality on the N11 is that large and considerable numbers of people with the common intent of "Partying" descend on the Public Transport services over the course of the evenings.

In true Irish style,this problematic situation,once begun,has been allowed to develop in size and scale until it reached it`s present levels.

Drivers ( and ORDINARY Non-Party minded customers) from several Garages have been experiencing,reporting,logging and generally attempting to deal with this nonsense for several YEARS now.

Bus Atha Cliath`s level of interest at Central Management level has been minimal and the Local Management`s have therefore been constrained by a certain need to preserve the "Serving the Entire Community" PR puffery demanded by Head Office.

The Gardai appear equally disinterested in the goings on aboard our Public Transport from a prevention sense.
However I will say that once involved,the individual Gardai are extremely supportive of the Busdrivers and rarely take any more abuse from the types of individuals perpretating this nonsense.

The essence of our problems,and they are SHARED by both Staff and Customers,is the reluctance of ANY of our Authorities to take pre-emptive action in the face of what is now regular provocation.

If there is trouble on a particular route then DB should be calling the Gardai and security guys (like on the Dart) to that route to sort it out, not pulling buses from service.

Speaking from experience,Bus Atha Cliath Route Controllers ARE calling on the Gardai,however these calls once made are entered into the Garda PULSE system and at busy times are then allocated a level of importance.

In a reflection of our societys general valuation of Public Services,this level is usually low enough to delay any Garda attention until long after the perpretators have done their thing and scurried off to pick on some other innocent party.

Generally speaking,there would need to be "Rivers of Blood" flowing out the Bus Doorway before immediate Garda assistance could be guaranteed.

That leaves us with Bus Atha Cliath`s option of hiring in private security a là DART.
This is now I believe inevitable,and only delayed by Central Managements reluctance to abandon the "Serving The ENTIRE Community" rhetoric.

Given Bus Atha Cliath`s excellent set of By-Law regulations,it is open to it to set-up it`s own security staff as "Designated Persons" therefore having the power to enforce the By-Laws on and about its vehicles and services.

If this involves unsavoury confrontation,then so be it.
The time for Niall Quinnism is long past at this stage and it is now a matter of Commercial Life or Death for the Company and Its Staff.

It is most certainly NOT in any Bus Atha Cliath Drivers interest to be leaving passengers behind in situations such as the N11 "Partying",however given the Company`s lack of interest in being Pro-Active I really cannot see the situation improving in the immediate future.

It will probably take a fatality of other major incident before some form of reluctant response emerges.

In the meantime I would advise "Ordinary" intending passengers to excercise an elevated deegree of awareness when arriving at a stop where such large groups of "Party-Goer`s" are congregating !

This really is an area where the Company NEEDS to get it`s Legitimate customer base on side and working WITH it to eliminate the "Right" of these creeps to impose their will on the greater body of society.

Only in Ireland would this bollix happen. What ridiculous logic - there are some dodgy people around, so instead of endangering the poor bus driver, let's just not stop, leaving regular people standing at a bus stop in the middle of the night, where they could be in danger? That is NOT an acceptable solution. If it really is so bad, Gardai should be called to deal with the problem or patrol around the 'trouble spots'. Simply not stopping is ridiculous and unacceptable. I'm so angry that this is Dublin's solution to the scumbags. So cowardly - everyone burying their heads in the sand instead of sorting out the problem! And who is the victim, the regular person, as always!

AlekSmart

Gage Immense Karate,you get busy putting your concerns about this bollixology on paper and forward it to Bus Atha Cliath Head Office as well as to the Asst Garda Commissioner in charge of the Dublin Metropolitan area.

The "Poor Bus Driver" you so readily caricature has absolutely NO control over this worseneing situation except to be required to shoulder the responsibility for what happens on his/her bus the moment the "Revellers" step aboard.

That is NOT an acceptable solution. If it really is so bad, Gardai should be called to deal with the problem or patrol around the 'trouble spots'. Simply not stopping is ridiculous and unacceptable. I'm so angry that this is Dublin's solution to the scumbags. So cowardly - everyone burying their heads in the sand instead of sorting out the problem! And who is the victim, the regular person, as always!

Gage Immense Karate,the Gardai ARE being called,as there is no "IF" about it being so bad...it IS that bad.

Not stopping is as you describe it,unacceptable,however It is NOT a solution but rather a decision usually made at the last second,on the fly by a Busdriver who is really is damned if he/she does-equally damned if he/she does`nt.

The Busdriver is the only one in this equation who is called upon to be Solomon with absolutely no backup or realistic options open to follow.

This is a serious Public Order situation which has been ALLOWED to spiral out of all control and which will now require a serious amount of grunt to reclaim it for those "regular persons",some of whom may even be Busdrivers themselves.

The solution,or at least a move towards one is for the company,in the absence of any realistic Garda committment to recruit and deploy it`s own security in the Parisian RATP mode.

I can assure Gage Immense Karate that of all the people involved in this debacle,the BusDrivers are the ONLY one`s with their heads not buried deep someplace sandy.....

bk

I think this problem needs a three pronged solution:

1) Dublin really needs a zero tolerance policy by the Gardai and courts towards scum bags, like that practised in New York so successfully.
2) We desperately need a dedicated transport police
3) Dart style, polish ex-military *, security staff at trouble spots and routes.

* I actually know a few of these lads, lovely guys in person, but you seriously don't want to mess with them, it is great fun watching the scum bags cower when approached by them on the dart.

I've heard that the scum didn't initially have this respect for them when they were first introduced, but quickly learned to respect them

breadmonkey

bk wrote: »

I think this problem needs a three pronged solution:

1) Dublin really needs a zero tolerance policy by the Gardai and courts towards scum bags, like that practised in New York so successfully.
2) We desperately need a dedicated transport police
3) Dart style, polish ex-military *, security staff at trouble spots and routes.

* I actually know a few of these lads, lovely guys in person, but you seriously don't want to mess with them, it is great fun watching the scum bags cower when approached by them on the dart.

I've heard that the scum didn't initially have this respect for them when they were first introduced, but quickly learned to respect them

I'm not convinced that partygoers along the N11 are such a serious source of hooliganism that they require a dedicated security force to deal with them.

AlekSmart

I'm not convinced that partygoers along the N11 are such a serious source of hooliganism that they require a dedicated security force to deal with them.

After several years of observing the N11 situation develop unopposed,I can categorically state that in my experience,and allowing for the unavailability of Garda resources,a dedicated pro-active Security presence is EXACTLY what the N11 "Partygoers" require.

OR,to put it another way...it`s exactly what the NON-Partygoers require !!

The entire thing needs to be put in the context of the numbers involved,and it`s worth also recalling that there are already two-murders, Annabels and the Waterloo Road Party cases where the entire N11 Party Ethos was a contributory factor to the eventual fatal outcomes.

The traditional Irish response of "Ah sure,It`s just a few lads havin the craic..." is wearing VERY thin right now...and not only for Public Transport users ... :mad:

breadmonkey

AlekSmart wrote: »

After several years of observing the N11 situation develop unopposed,I can categorically state that in my experience,and allowing for the unavailability of Garda resources,a dedicated pro-active Security presence is EXACTLY what the N11 "Partygoers" require.

OK fair enough, but what exactly is so bad? Is there really a huge amount of trouble or is it simply a case of people drinking and being loud? My own experiences have been the latter.

The entire thing needs to be put in the context of the numbers involved,and it`s worth also recalling that there are already two-murders, Annabels and the Waterloo Road Party cases where the entire N11 Party Ethos was a contributory factor to the eventual fatal outcomes.

No. That is totally and utterly unrelated and does not add any weight to your argument.

AlekSmart

OK fair enough, but what exactly is so bad? Is there really a huge amount of trouble or is it simply a case of people drinking and being loud? My own experiences have been the latter.

Equally fair enough....:)

However,quantifying what form of behaviour may be interpreted as "so bad" is obviously going to involve attempting to square circles as everybody`s perceptions differ.

Can I safely assume that for breadmonkey it is acceptable behaviour for people to "drink and be loud" when sharing enclosed public spaces such as Buses,Trains or Trams ?

I have operated services where the above "drinking and loudness" has escalated RAPIDLY into violent confrontation where I was forced to request Garda assistance with the attendant delay,fear and frustration for EVERYBODY else.
In addition I regularly would have to clean-up after the "loud folks" have gone on their merry way,leaving,as they do, the evidence of poor hand-to-mouth co-ordination all over the seats and floor for the next "quiet" passengers to sit amidst.

My only response to breadmonkey is not to doubt for a moment his/her experiences of this,but to underline how my perspective as Busdriver may differ considerably.
I would also underline the fact that my responses as busdriver will be guided by the level of interference and intrusion which both myself AND other non-party minded passengers are prepared to tolerate.

With the abundance of stretch-limo and Fire-Truck Cab companies now competing for the feelgood business I believe that if a group of individuals wish to swill alcoholl,roar abuse and wave their bare asses at passers by then there are now plenty of transport options which will cater for their needs.

Put even simpler paying a €1.15 fare on a public bus service won`t cover the cost in any way shape or form.

No. That is totally and utterly unrelated and does not add any weight to your argument.

I don`t put forward the two examples to "add weight" to my argument,simply because I don`t see any argument here at all.
The involvement of alcohol,party athmosphere,geographical location and age groups are common factors with the current N11 Public Transport situation.

The only element absent from the N11 Bus scenario thus far is the spark which ignites the potent mixture.

That potency can be experienced any night,particularly between Wed-Sat when Busdrivers generally would be far more apprehensive about their nights work.

Just to clarify,I`m not putting forward any argument in this matter,I`m merely attempting to describe MY perceptions of the situation and to outline my thoughts on the matter.

In the absence of any Company or Garda structured response I`ll continue to operate at all times with Safety as my main guideline,my own,my passengers and lastly the safety of the " loud drinkers" who may well do themselves a mischief in the confined spaces of a Bus.

AlekSmart

AlekSmart wrote: »

Gage Immense Karate,you get busy putting your concerns about this bollixology on paper and forward it to Bus Atha Cliath Head Office as well as to the Asst Garda Commissioner in charge of the Dublin Metropolitan area.

The "Poor Bus Driver" you so readily caricature has absolutely NO control over this worseneing situation except to be required to shoulder the responsibility for what happens on his/her bus the moment the "Revellers" step aboard.



Gage Immense Karate,the Gardai ARE being called,as there is no "IF" about it being so bad...it IS that bad.

Not stopping is as you describe it,unacceptable,however It is NOT a solution but rather a decision usually made at the last second,on the fly by a Busdriver who is really is damned if he/she does-equally damned if he/she does`nt.

The Busdriver is the only one in this equation who is called upon to be Solomon with absolutely no backup or realistic options open to follow.

This is a serious Public Order situation which has been ALLOWED to spiral out of all control and which will now require a serious amount of grunt to reclaim it for those "regular persons",some of whom may even be Busdrivers themselves.

The solution,or at least a move towards one is for the company,in the absence of any realistic Garda committment to recruit and deploy it`s own security in the Parisian RATP mode.

I can assure Gage Immense Karate that of all the people involved in this debacle,the BusDrivers are the ONLY one`s with their heads not buried deep someplace sandy.....

I e-mail Dublin Bus every time I'm waiting for a bus that does not stop or does not come (late at night). I have already complained to Gardai standing nearby and got pretty much the same answer - the driver wasn't stopping because of a 'potentially dangerous situation' - well why weren't the damn Gardai doing anything about it? I'm not blaming just the bus driver, I'm blaming everyone who ALLOWED this situation to spiral out of control until it came down to leaving passengers at stops. Did anyone ever stop to think about why this doesn't happen in other countries? Because the police actually step in, or the transport companies have their own security personnel (this is the case in Brussels). It is so laughable that Dublin Bus and the gov. keep pushing people to use public transport, and then fail at their most basic duty - actually providing a bus. If this happened to me, I'd either stay at home or get a taxi from then on rather than risk being a young woman stranded in a dodgy area late at night.

Part of the reason I left Dublin was that I was tired of being subjected to smoking, drug use, foul language and harrassment on the bus with everyone totally ignoring the problem. Telling the driver resulting in a 'well what can I do?' attitude. The first sign of trouble where I live now and the police are on the metro/bus taking off the trouble makers.

After several years of observing the N11 situation develop unopposed,I can categorically state that in my experience,and allowing for the unavailability of Garda resources,a dedicated pro-active Security presence is EXACTLY what the N11 "Partygoers" require.

I totally agree. It's time that people starting taking this seriously. But leaving passengers stranded in this 'dangerous situation' is not the way to handle things.

AlekSmart

I'm not blaming just the bus driver, I'm blaming everyone who ALLOWED this situation to spiral out of control until it came down to leaving passengers at stops. Did anyone ever stop to think about why this doesn't happen in other countries? Because the police actually step in, or the transport companies have their own security personnel (this is the case in Brussels).

Gage Immense Karate quite correctly identifies some of the contributory factors behind why the more civilized European Countries do not suffer to the same extent as us from wanton muppetry.

Most of the Major EU Capitals have their own problems with Social deprivation.
Paris,for example is ringed with many densely packed resedential suburbs which are always balanced upon a knife edge.
Yet,I have used Public Bus services in such areas only later realizing that I had sat in a fully intact Bus Shelter and used a Public Telephone kiosk which in the same type of situation in Dublin would both have been in smithereens.

I have spoken with Parisian Bus Drivers operating on routes serving some unsavoury areas and was somewhat surprised that fear of attack and aggressive behaviour did not occupy their mind to the extent it does in Dublin.

A major part of our problem is for us simply to admit that there is one.

It is not in our native physche to do this,as can be all to readily seen in the current Child Abuse scandals......so many knew,so many were observers,so many looked away...that is EXACTLY the malaise which exists within our Public systems right now.

breadmonkey

Here we go - my correspondence with Dublin Bus. Can you believe it took over six weeks to resolve the issue?! Note the dates on the emails.

24th May

me wrote:

Dear Sir/Madam,

On the night of Saturday 23 May I attempted to get the 46A bus that departs Parnell Square at 23:30 from the bus stop outside Wesley rugby ground in Donnybrook.

As you may or may not be aware, there is an under age disco held at this rugby ground on every Friday and Saturday night. As a result, there were a group of approximately 30 people in the vicinity of the bus stop. Despite the reasonably sized gathering, the atmosphere was quite subdued and there were no incidences of fighting, shouting, horseplay, drunkenness or anything of that nature. I must state that I was not associated with the disco as I am of an older age group.

The bus arrived at approximately 23:40. I gave a clear signal in good time but the driver simply ignored me, stayed in the outside lane and bypassed the bus stop. It was plain to see that the bus was by no means at full capacity. About three minutes later, a no. 10 bus arrived and exactly the same thing happened. Despite an even more emphatic signal the driver stayed in the outside lane and bypassed the stop.

While I understand that perhaps drivers are wary of picking up people who they think could start trouble, it is totally unacceptable that others get left stranded. I had to pay €25 to get home in a taxi as a result of this unprofessional behaviour. If the buses aren't going to stop at that particular stop then I expect some notification of same. This scenario is a bi weekly occurrence and all drivers would be aware of it since the garage is a mere stone's throw away.

Can you please state Dublin Bus' policy with regard to this matter?

This seemed the most appropriate address to mail based on the information provided in the "contact us" section of your website, www.dublinbus.ie. If I have made an error in this regard, please forward my email to the relevant party.

I eagerly await your response.

Yours sincerely,

29th May

me wrote:

To whom it may concern,

I wish to make a complaint regarding a Dublin Bus service.

Please advise me of the email address of the relevant party.

Your sincerely,

29th May

Dublin Bus wrote:

You can send it to this address and I will forward to the appropriate department.

Regards

29th May

me wrote:

Hello X,
Thank you for your reply. Here is the email that I sent to this address on May 24th. Please forward it to the relevant department as discussed.

---

Dear Sir/Madam,

On the night of Saturday 23 May I attempted to get the 46A bus that departs Parnell Square at 23:30 from the bus stop outside Wesley rugby ground in Donnybrook.

As you may or may not be aware, there is an under age disco held at this rugby ground on every Friday and Saturday night. As a result, there were a group of approximately 30 people in the vicinity of the bus stop. Despite the reasonably sized gathering, the atmosphere was quite subdued and there were no incidences of fighting, shouting, horseplay, drunkenness or anything of that nature. I must state that I was not associated with the disco as I am of an older age group.

The bus arrived at approximately 23:40. I gave a clear signal in good time but the driver simply ignored me, stayed in the outside lane and bypassed the bus stop. It was plain to see that the bus was by no means at full capacity. About three minutes later, a no. 10 bus arrived and exactly the same thing happened. Despite an even more emphatic signal the driver stayed in the outside lane and bypassed the stop.

While I understand that perhaps drivers are wary of picking up people who they think could start trouble, it is totally unacceptable that others get left stranded. I had to pay €25 to get home in a taxi as a result of this unprofessional behaviour. If the buses aren't going to stop at that particular stop then I expect some notification of same. This scenario is a bi weekly occurrence and all drivers would be aware of it since the garage is a mere stone's throw away.

Can you please state Dublin Bus' policy with regard to this matter?

This seemed the most appropriate address to mail based on the information provided in the "contact us" section of your website, www.dublinbus.ie. If I have made an error in this regard, please forward my email to the relevant party.

I eagerly await your response.

Yours sincerely,

9th June

me wrote:

Dear SIr/Madam,

It has now been 10 working days since I sent in my original complaint and I have received no reply.

Can you please explain why you are not taking this seriously? Simply ignoring the issue will not make it go away.

I expect my complaint to be dealt with in a professional manner and I await your response.

Regards,

10th June

Dublin Bus wrote:

Dear X,

Thank you for your e-mail.

I have spoken with Donnybrook Garage and they have informed me that on the night in question on a previous bus there were incidents of anti social behaviour caused by people getting on at the stop outside Wesley. As a result of this the next driver did not stop to pick up passengers.

I know you had nothing to do with this group and I apologise for any inconvenience this incident may have caused you. If you forward me you address I would be glad to send you bus tickets to the value of your taxi fare.

Best Regards,

June 14th

me wrote:

Dear Mr. X,

Surely there is a better way to deal with these incidents than simply abandoning people at the roadside? I suggest that drivers be instructed to pull in to the stop and then make their decision on who they will and will not allow onto the bus. This, in my opinion, is the only way to ensure that you are not regularly failing innocent members of the public.

Regarding compensation, I would like to thank you for your generous offer to reimburse me through bus tickets. Unfortunately, these would be of no value to me as I currently hold a yearly bus pass. If you intend to renumerate me for lost funds then I think the cash sum for the taxi fare is the only reasonable compensation.

Regards,

24th June

me wrote:

Dear Mr X,

Please respond to my previous email. I must say that I am truly appalled at the apathetic and unprofessional manner in which you have dealt with my complaint. It has been over eight working days since my last email. It seems that a prompt is required each time to extract a response.

Please reply in a timely fashion.

8th July

me wrote:

Mr X

It has been over two weeks since my last email.

The way in which you have handled my complaint is a disgrace. Please contact me immediately.

Regards,

8th July

Dublin Bus wrote:

Dear X,

I have been out of the office for the past week so my apologies for the delay in replying. Could you please forward me your address so I can send you out a cheque to cover the cost of your taxi fare.

8th July

me wrote:

Mr. X

Thank you for your prompt reply.

My address:
X

While I appreciate the compensation, I do hope the surrounding issues will be addressed so that this doesn't happen in future. I think the simple suggestion that I made could make a lot of difference.

Regards,

Thoughts?

karlr42

That's an extremely unprofessional attitude to correspondence. "I was out of the office", so no complaints may be handled? When I take holidays from work, I know somebody will cover for me, and I have covered from others- it's the basics of running a workplace.

bearded1

For the record, some 9 months or so since the original incident which resulted in Dublin Bus services around UCD Belfield are still a mess.

N11 buses will regularly not stop at stops before & and after UCD, as well as not going up the flyover after 9pm or so. Some buses will use the flyover, it is driver dependant.

Number 10s are supposed to leave from the first stop after Belfield but sometimes they leave from RTÉ or Donnybrook garage, this is also driver dependant.

Dublin Bus claim they are consulting UCD authorities on how the situation at night can be improved.

Meanwhile every night people are left standing at the Number 10 terminus inside campus, and people like me who work late in UCD have to either gamble and wait at the flyover, or walk into town and hope that buses don't flash past on the way.

Of course the most annoying thing is when buses don't stop but can clearly be seen to already have the upper level full of people in party mode!

While I appreciate some drivers are likely ignoring instructions to avoid UCD at night, it's very frustrating not knowing each night wheter or not a bus will stop..

A few years ago the number 18 was suspended along a stretch of the Kylemore road due to stone throwing. The timetable was changed to reflect this.

Why don't Dublin Bus admit there is a problem, and change the timetable, stating after xx:xx buses will not serve the following stops...
Also a few signs at the UCD terminus would be helpful..