Endurance sport a fad?

asimonov

Article here from the guardian last week about endurance sports. I'm pretty sure its not the greatest article on the subject ever written, and its a pretty dismissive take on it - but it does give an insight into how people can view endurance sports like triathlon, marathon and ultra running.

RHunce

pretty sh!t article truth be told i doubt he has ever competed in any of those events

mloc123

Regular triathlons are now too sissy, hence the surge in popularity for ultramarathons, notably the Iron Man competition

Note to editor.. proof read the articles first :rolleyes:

asimonov

Would the editor know any better? Ultra, ironman, adventure....sure they're all the same thing ;-)

RacoonQueen

I see from the comments below it that it's going down a treat.

Running Bing

Yeah this marathon fad has been going on for 2500 years...bound to end any day now:rolleyes:

thirstywork

I actually didnt think it was such a bad article.:p

jimbojambo

Ha Ha.... Oh the passion of an endurance athlete! Great the way journalists know everything...

spaceylou

okay everyone is entitled to their own opinon, (even if it isn't the same as mine) but one of the important rules of writing a piece that is going to be published is double check your facts and she got the title of Murakimi book wrong!!!

Zuppy

Not bad. Any PR is good PR. I am off to hurt myself just coz I can and it is cheaper than an Ironman entry fee. (Not all endurance athletes do it for the pain)

baza1976

I do think myself that the whole tri thing is "amature" athletics version of snobery call it a fad if you like..... it's the equal to horse racing v polo.... I haven't competed but have spoke to a good few "tri athletes" in person and completing a marathon is not an achivement anymore and all they talk about is how much their wet suit and bikes cost before they head home in their audi :rolleyes:

I know 2 guys who started of doing (trying) tris and for the very reason I mentioned packed it in...

note to mods: not trolling, just my opinion...
note to "tri athletes":... sorry.. just my opinion

jimbojambo

Opinions count! Personally I judge myself and others (in competition) on their times and performances. Its amazing to see how many people see themselves differently than the stats! Still thats the joys I guess!

liamo

baza1976 wrote: »

I do think myself that the whole tri thing is "amature" athletics version of snobery

I'm not a snob nor are the people I know in triathlon. I've never met anyone in triathlon that I would remotely consider to suffer from any form of snobery .

call it a fad if you like

Modern triathlon has been around for over 30 years and a part of the olympics since 2000. I think it's gone way beyond a fad.

..... it's the equal to horse racing v polo....

I'm struggling to make sense of this. Perhaps you would elaborate?

I haven't competed

Then, frankly, you are not fully informed and this diminishes any criticism you are making of the sport.

but have spoke to a good few "tri athletes" in person and completing a marathon is not an achivement anymore and all they talk about is how much their wet suit and bikes cost before they head home in their audi :rolleyes:

I have an entry-level wetsuit and I drive a battered 14YO opel. I would consider myself representative of a large portion of triathletes. Your experiences do not represent the vast majority of triathletes.

I know 2 guys who started of doing (trying) tris and for the very reason I mentioned packed it in...

Sounds like a pretty handy excuse to me.

note to mods: not trolling, just my opinion...

I somehow doubt the "not trolling" part of this. I wouldn't normally rise to the bait but I'm bored at the moment.

note to "tri athletes":... sorry.. just my opinion

While I respect your right to an opinion, may I respectfully suggest that you arm yourself with some facts and educate yourself about the fastest growing sport in the country before you come on to a forum containing triathletes and call them snobs and their sport a fad. Better yet, give it a go yourself and see what the attraction is.

baza1976

Hi Laimo,

A thread was created and I made a comment on it! I think I'm allowed to do that.

I may have.. I DID... worded my post badly, Of course not all triathletes are snobs... It's just my perception of that event in general and of some other people I have spoken to.. It's just like the old slagging of D4 rugby, it doesn't mean everyone playing "D4 rugby" plays like a Lady, just think back to last weekend!!!

Your opinion is that there are no snobs in Tri and my opinion is that there is.... they are our perceptions and other people will perceive it in their own way..

I never troll....took me ages to decide if I'd reply..as this is prob one of the friendliest forums on boards.... still not sure I should

I admire your vigour in defending your sport.. fair play to you... As I would defend any sport I participate in..but i do have facts and real life experences, I'm not going to name these tri guys............. and as for trying the sport I'm not a great swimmer and with the current economic climate, 3 kids and mortgage to pay I don't think my wife would be too pleased

jimbojambo

Lads, Lads, Lads..........In every sport, there are posers. No matter what job you are in there are posers. No matter what county, city or even country you are in there are posers. Who cares, leave them at it! Enjoy the sport and don't let silliness get in the way. Life is too short!

wizwill

I done a couple of tri's last year taking some time out from running, the un-ending gadgets and oppotunities to spend money do attract a slightly higher number of snobs but the vast majority are sound-types you meet in other endurance events. Not suprised tri is growing so fast, its very enjoyable, its like 3 different types of adrenalin in the one event.

liamo

baza1976 wrote: »

A thread was created and I made a comment on it! I think I'm allowed to do that.

Yes, you are. And I would defend your right to do so (and my right to respond )

I may have.. I DID... worded my post badly, Of course not all triathletes are snobs... It's just my perception of that event in general and of some other people I have spoken to.. It's just like the old slagging of D4 rugby, it doesn't mean everyone playing "D4 rugby" plays like a Lady, just think back to last weekend!!!

Your opinion is that there are no snobs in Tri and my opinion is that there is.... they are our perceptions and other people will perceive it in their own way..

Well, no. That's not exactly my opinion - I simply haven't encountered any. Still, if it's a perception that you have, then no doubt others have that perception too. Given that I've never encountered anything like that, I genuinely wonder how that came about.

I never troll....took me ages to decide if I'd reply..as this is prob one of the friendliest forums on boards.... still not sure I should

Thank you for your contribution to the discussion. My response was perhaps a little over the top - if so, I apologise.

Regards,

Liam

stevie_b

baza1976 wrote: »

Hi Laimo,

A thread was created and I made a comment on it! I think I'm allowed to do that.

I may have.. I DID... worded my post badly, Of course not all triathletes are snobs... It's just my perception of that event in general and of some other people I have spoken to.. It's just like the old slagging of D4 rugby, it doesn't mean everyone playing "D4 rugby" plays like a Lady, just think back to last weekend!!!

Your opinion is that there are no snobs in Tri and my opinion is that there is.... they are our perceptions and other people will perceive it in their own way..

your perception of tri probably says a lot about the kind of people you know and have talked to, rather than the sport in general. the fact that you don't participate in the sport is further evidence that your perceptions are flawed.

Odysseus

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

Not bad. Any PR is good PR. I am off to hurt myself just coz I can and it is cheaper than an Ironman entry fee. (Not all endurance athletes do it for the pain)

Yes some do it for the deep rooted sexual satisfaction, it that what you referring to? Remember I'm a big fan of Freud:)

MCOS

I've been around sport all my life and as the proud owner of

a basic wetsuit
a basic bike
a 10 YO Audi

I vouch for Triathlon as one of the friendliest and fun sports I have encountered... :P

Don't knock it until you try it!

Its a shame you met a few of those other types first... they exist in every walk of life
Peace

hunnymonster

Odysseus wrote: »

Yes some do it for the deep rooted sexual satisfaction, it that what you referring to? Remember I'm a big fan of Freud:)

Great, my fiance goes to teh desert with a Freud loving Shakespearian and comes bcak sexually satisfied? I obviously missed a memo somewhere

I'm met a couple of triathletes who are up their own asses but the huge majority are great. There are certainly no more tri-nobs than in the general population as far as I can tell.

shels4ever

MCOS wrote: »

I've been around sport all my life and as the proud owner of

a basic wetsuit
a basic bike
a 10 YO Audi

I vouch for Triathlon as one of the friendliest and fun sports I have encountered... :P

Don't knock it until you try it!

Its a shame you met a few of those other types first... they exist in every walk of life
Peace

+1
I met a all types when I had a go at a tri a few years ago, some good , some bad but wouldnt put me off doing one again sometime in the future. But I can see that some people would be scared away think i picked the wrong club to train with at the time but , but I was also not ready for it myself...

Odysseus

hunnymonster wrote: »

Great, my fiance goes to teh desert with a Freud loving Shakespearian and comes bcak sexually satisfied? I obviously missed a memo somewhere

I'm met a couple of triathletes who are up their own asses but the huge majority are great. There are certainly no more tri-nobs than in the general population as far as I can tell.

Ah but from a Freudian viewpoint its the same for all of us, even my love of Shakespeare.

On topic I have to add any of the tri or IM people I have meet have been sound.

jimbojambo

I met a girl in the pub once and she was rude to me. Never went there again!!

MCOS

Odysseus wrote: »

On topic I have to add any of the tri or IM people I have meet have been sound.

'sound' - ah come on now Tri folk are better looking than 'sound'

*if thats just local Limerick colloquiallism then embarassed I suppose I chuckle alone!

Odysseus

MCOS wrote: »

Odysseus wrote: »

On topic I have to add any of the tri or IM people I have meet have been sound.

'sound' - ah come on now Tri folk are better looking than 'sound'

*if thats just local Limerick colloquiallism then embarassed I suppose I chuckle alone!

I don't know about the looks department, now that would be a different criteria than personality wise;)

scottreynolds

hunnymonster wrote: »

I met a couple of triathletes who are up their own asses but the huge majority are great.

Hunny ... I met a couple of cyclists who are up their own asses but the huge majority are great. Different strokes for sifferent folks....

I meet a guy a few weeks ago who is doing a double ironman in 5 weeks.... 32hours with food stops... and why does he do it, "He's a hairdresser and doesn't want to look gay"

Zuppy

Odysseus wrote: »

Yes some do it for the deep rooted sexual satisfaction, it that what you referring to? Remember I'm a big fan of Freud:)

My GOD!!! I thought it was about the pain. As for Freud, didn't they prove he lied about a lot of his case studies? I think he blamed his mother for breastfeeding him.

hunnymonster wrote: »

Great, my fiance goes to teh desert with a Freud loving Shakespearian and comes bcak sexually satisfied? I obviously missed a memo somewhere

I'm met a couple of triathletes who are up their own asses but the huge majority are great. There are certainly no more tri-nobs than in the general population as far as I can tell.

Won't comment on the first part as my language will get me banned. As for Snobs and the such, I have visited many sports (crap at quiet a few) but find it seems to be the people you know in those sports that colour your views on it. You could talk generalizations all day like Sprinters are prima donnas (except all of the sprinters I know), Cyclists are OCD, Tri heads are suffering from over-training syndrome etc

It is about the individual to me, thats why I avoid team sports

Odysseus

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

My GOD!!! I thought it was about the pain. As for Freud, didn't they prove he lied about a lot of his case studies? I think he blamed his mother for breastfeeding him.

No, No and in case I missed something No;)

Odysseus

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

It is about the individual to me, thats why I avoid team sports

Personally I would be of the same opinion

Zuppy

Odysseus wrote: »

No, No and in case I missed something No;)

This context is in discussing his work on the sexual drive (he really was taken with it) and doesn't seem to be the mainstream opinion.

Freud supported his conclusions with only six full case studies. Some of the patients were not even his. Since Freud’s death people have dug up letters and contemporaneous case notes that demonstrate Freud did not, in fact, produce dramatic cures in these cases. In 1998 professor Frederick C. Crews published a series of essays by experts, called Unauthorized Freud: Doubters Confront a Legend.


On another note Freud used cocaine for years, and publicly touted its supposed benefits, even claiming that it could cure addiction to morphine. Which is why you follow him I suppose. :D:D

Odysseus

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

This context is in discussing his work on the sexual drive (he really was taken with it) and doesn't seem to be the mainstream opinion.

Freud supported his conclusions with only six full case studies. Some of the patients were not even his. Since Freud’s death people have dug up letters and contemporaneous case notes that demonstrate Freud did not, in fact, produce dramatic cures in these cases. In 1998 professor Frederick C. Crews published a series of essays by experts, called Unauthorized Freud: Doubters Confront a Legend.


On another note Freud used cocaine for years, and publicly touted its supposed benefits, even claiming that it could cure addiction to morphine. Which is why you follow him I suppose. :D:D

I don't want to go off topic too much, its something we can discuss the next time we get a chance to run again.

I read that a long time ago from what I remember I wasn't impressed with it. On the coke issue your spot on, but there was alot of papers published in the states at the same time supporting the same claim. It was only when he tried to help a close friend who was addicted to morph who died from it that he moved away from that. Though it was only a short episode in his early days as a doctor. They are only his full accounts of case histories that are published, he make use of alot of clinical examples in the 24 vols of his work.

Anyway back on topic, I know one psychoanalyst who makes the claim and I think he is right that there is a strong link between extreme sports, which ultras and adventure races would would fall into and addiction. However, it not based on any ICD-10 or DSM citeria, rather its connected to a French analytic concept called Jouissance below is taken from Wikipedia. Its a very difficult concept but at it most basic its a pleasure in pain. I keep meaning to do some research around it and ultra running, but I have too many projects going at the moment.

This sexual connotation (i.e. orgasm) lacking in the English word "enjoyment", and is therefore left untranslated in English editions of the works of Jacques Lacan.[1]. In his Seminar "The Ethics of Psychoanalysis" (1959-1960) Lacan develops his concept of the opposition of jouissance and pleasure. The pleasure principle, according to Lacan, functions as a limit to enjoyment: it is the law that commands the subject to 'enjoy as little as possible'. At the same time the subject constantly attempts to transgress the prohibitions imposed on his enjoyment, to go beyond the pleasure principle. Yet the result of transgressing the pleasure principle, according to Lacan, is not more pleasure but pain, since there is only a certain amount of pleasure that the subject can bear. Beyond this limit, pleasure becomes pain, and this 'painful principle' is what Lacan calls jouissance. (Dylan Evans). Thus jouissance is suffering (Ethics).

In his Seminar "Encore" (1972-1973) Lacan states that jouissance is essentially phallic. That is, insofar as jouissance is sexual it is phallic, meaning that it does not relate to the Other as such. Lacan admits, however, that there is a specifically feminine jouissance, a supplementary jouissance, which is beyond the phallus, a jouissance of the Other. This feminine jouissance is ineffable, for both women and men may experience it but know nothing about it.

In his seminar "The Other Side of Psychoanalysis" (1969-1970) Lacan introduced the concept of surplus-jouissance (French 'plus-de-jouir') inspired by Marx's concept of surplus-value: objet petit a is the excess of jouissance which has no use value, and which persists for the mere sake of jouissance.

The Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Žižek, a known Lacanian theorist, has adopted the term in his philosophy; it may also be seen in the works, both joint and individual, of Gilles Deleuze and Félix Guattari, and it plays an important role in the writing of Roland Barthes and Julia Kristeva.

Zuppy

Your right, a certain Mod might get annoyed if we discuss this too much off topic. I defer to your knowledge on this subject, I do remember from my training something about a pain/ pleasure centre reversal.
Might explain endurance running. The endorphins can't be that good to go a 100 miles or more. But if the body found pain to be pleasurable, well then a Paris Dakar of running might be on the cards.

--amadeus--

I leave ye all alone for a day and the place turns into Dark & Deviant :eek:

Cool!!!

Enduro

Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus!

Slogger Jogger

"endurophilia"?

Zuppy

Or Endurosis??

MrCreosote

Must say I get plenty jouissance when I see a nicely turned out tri bike.
Does that count?

Odysseus

ZuppyLurk wrote: »

Or Endurosis??

I have to say that has a certain ring to it. But we would have to discover if its an actual or psychoneurosis.

Zuppy

Odysseus wrote: »

I have to say that has a certain ring to it. But we would have to discover if its an actual or psychoneurosis.

If you find out, you get to name it.

Endurosis
State of mind where the pain and pleasure centres reverse polarity and the patient feels aggrieved at having to cease painful activity.

The running version of the above is normally referred to as the Odysseus complex. Characterized by a love of painfully and/ or bruised feet.