1 billion € saving

meditraitor

Looking at the RTE news site it seems obvious that we could save 1 Billion yoyo's (give it to the nurses/guards or me) by not paying for the abuses carried out by the Catholic religious orders.

Why has someone not thought of this before?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0521/abuse.html


As joe taxpayer I would like to tell them to Get to be fucked and pay for their own crimes.

Dennis the Stone

They've certainly got the money to pay.

preilly79

How about removing the churches tax exempt status and use the proceeds of that to pay for any settlements?

Dennis the Stone

Nobody ever answers for anything in this fuc*ing country

Caoimhín

meditraitor wrote: »

Looking at the RTE news site it seems obvious that we could save 1 Billion yoyo's (give it to the nurses/guards or me) by not paying for the abuses carried out by the Catholic religious orders.

Why has someone not thought of this before?
[URL="http://"][/URL]

Good evening Minister Lenihan,

You know you dont have to run every hair-brained idea past us? Just knock yourself out and tell us about it when you have screwed it all up, again.

hobochris

preilly79 wrote: »

How about removing the churches tax exempt status and use the proceeds of that to pay for any settlements?

are all religions tax exempt or just the catholic religion in this country? If it is just the church then they can complain about being taxed.

another easy way to get the surplus tax revenue they need is add 1c vat on each item/service across all goods and services. Would fix the problem in no time.

rotinaj

Comon lads, lets grab the the pitch forks and burning torchs and loot your local church.

Relevant

hobochris wrote: »

are all religions tax exempt or just the catholic religion in this country? If it is just the church then they can complain about being taxed.

another easy way to get the surplus tax revenue they need is add 1c vat on each item/service across all goods and services. Would fix the problem in no time.

That would take 400billion transactions.... "No time" at all

Wait. Is the State paying for the Church's crimes?

preilly79

Deleted User wrote: »

Wait. Is the State paying for the Church's crimes?

Pretty much you and I, I'm led to believe. Irish taxpayers, funding the perverted fantasies of sick catholic priests.

Mr.Lizard

preilly79 wrote: »

Pretty much you and I, I'm led to believe. Irish taxpayers, funding the perverted fantasies of sick catholic priests.

You and I (or at least our ancestors) are to blame for it.

Ok so if an ordinary old man rapes a young child and they get a fine and a prison sentence, would the State pay for their fine?

Why should priests be any different. The Church should pay for it's crimes.

admiralofthefleet

preilly79 wrote: »

How about removing the churches tax exempt status and use the proceeds of that to pay for any settlements?

that and get the vatican to sell off the nazi gold they have in massive stockpiles

Michellenman

Isn't the € supposed to go in front of the monetary value?

preilly79

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

that and get the vatican to sell off the nazi gold they have in massive stockpiles

I thought the Swiss banks had all that?

admiralofthefleet

preilly79 wrote: »

I thought the Swiss banks had all that?

no, the catholic cult has it

jdivision

The esteemed Michael Woods, a former Minister, signed a deal with the religious orders against his officials advice limiting Church liability to E127 m, with us picking up the rest. Bertie was in on this too. We get to pick up the other E900m cos they were useless. And you'd want to see what the Church is trying to give us to make up the E127m: schools, land that can't be touched etc etc. They screwed us once with the original deal and have been trying to screw us again since.

PeakOutput

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

You and I (or at least our ancestors) are to blame for it.

eh not really....at all in fact.

employees of the catholic church are to blame for it the catholic church should pay for it

not to mind the fact they can more than afford it and they tried to hide it

Caoimhín

In seriousness though people,

It is the first time in my life that I feel utterly ashamed to be Irish.

Those responsible should be dragged in front of the courts.

Tchaikovsky

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

that and get the vatican to sell off the nazi gold they have in massive stockpiles

The Swiss Bank has the nazi gold, ask them

Mr.Lizard

PeakOutput wrote: »

eh not really....at all in fact.

employees of the catholic church are to blame for it the catholic church should pay for it

And who allowed the catholic church play such a pivotal role in Irish society for hundreds of years? I don't remember the chapter in the history books where they took this country by force? We were quite happy to let them make our decisions when it came to social direction and to clean up our 'mess' whenever it occured. Yet when the ugly side of this bargain raises it's head we'd like to wash our hands of it all and let them take full responsibility for it all.

Typical Ireland. We'll never run out of other people to blame for everything.

Wertz

preilly79 wrote: »

How about removing the churches tax exempt status and use the proceeds of that to pay for any settlements?

How about going the whole hog and seizing any and all church owned lands and buildings, selling them off, and using the proceeds to compensate victims and whatever's left over be used for other charitable works.
Use of compulsory purchase orders and a big "f*ck you" letter to the Vatican...and finally cut the chord between churh and state here.

I've been raging about this all day after hearing some of the victims on the radio...one man told of brothers using a sliding sash window to hold boys in place as they were anally raped. No words can express my anger toward these motherf*ckers...that it was done with impunity, nay the blessing of those who had the power to halt it just enrages me even more.

/rant

You can get away with anything is this country it seems, we bail out the banks and now we pay out for the crimes of the catholic church, and no one goes to prison. What a joke :mad:

Wertz

We'll put them all in Thornton Hall.

Oh wait...

galwayguy22

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

And who allowed the catholic church play such a pivotal role in Irish society for hundreds of years? I don't remember the chapter in the history books where they took this country by force? We were quite happy to let them make our decisions when it came to social direction and to clean up our 'mess' whenever it occured. Yet when the ugly side of this bargain raises it's head we'd like to wash our hands of it all and let them take full responsibility for it all.

Typical Ireland. We'll never run out of other people to blame for everything.

Jesus that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on boards.

Well done for being a retard.

Mr.Lizard

galwayguy22 wrote: »

Jesus that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on boards.

Well done for being a retard.

That's quite a personal insult there.

galwayguy22

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

That's quite a personal insult there.

Indeed it is, indeed it is.

Mr.Lizard

I guess I'll seeya when you get back in that case.

galwayguy22

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

I guess I'll seeya when you get back in that case.

Get back from where? A ban?

It's not my fault you're a retard, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Mr.Lizard

galwayguy22 wrote: »

Get back from where? A ban?

It's not my fault you're a retard, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

You're absolutely right. ttfn.

PeakOutput

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

And who allowed the catholic church play such a pivotal role in Irish society for hundreds of years? I don't remember the chapter in the history books where they took this country by force? We were quite happy to let them make our decisions when it came to social direction and to clean up our 'mess' whenever it occured. Yet when the ugly side of this bargain raises it's head we'd like to wash our hands of it all and let them take full responsibility for it all.

Typical Ireland. We'll never run out of other people to blame for everything.

in that case anyone who voted for any politician who broke the law should share the prison sentence

individuals in the church broke the law in the most heinous way. they provided the best schools in the country because the church has a ridicolous amount of money to spend on these things and then ABUSED the children that were sent there for a good education. the parents / the kids or anyone else have no fault for this accept the paedophiles and the church who tried to hide them because they 'did not recognize the sexual abuse of a child as a criminal offense, but rather as a sin that required repentance. '

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30838320/

also your argument implies that the abuse was caused by our reliance on the church(which was substantial) but the church has abused children WORLDWIDE in countries that were nowhere near as under their thumb as ireland was

the church is/was at fault the church should be FORCED to pay every penny and every single paedophile put in prison for a substantial amount of time

dr.bollocko

galwayguy22 wrote: »

Get back from where? A ban?

It's not my fault you're a retard, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

Banned.

Karlusss

Wertz wrote: »

How about going the whole hog and seizing any and all church owned lands and buildings, selling them off, and using the proceeds to compensate victims and whatever's left over be used for other charitable works.
Use of compulsory purchase orders and a big "f*ck you" letter to the Vatican...and finally cut the chord between churh and state here.

Oh hi there Henry VIII, didn't see you for a minute.

Wertz

Karlusss wrote: »

Oh hi there Henry VIII, didn't see you for a minute.

*waves the head of ex-wife around on a stick*

I'd do it to the prods too, just for the sake of consistency. :pac:

These raping bastards have destroyed countless lives for their own pleasure and lorded it over all of us whilst doing so...tell me why these institutions should remain in the hands of those who would carry out such henious, reprehensibly vile acts on those that were supposed to be in their care and get to hold on to all the wealth that it does, whilst the already beleagured State gets to cough up compensation.

Personally I'd burn the lot in the morning with half the f*ckers still inside, but given our financial sitation it makes a lot more sense to take their ill won gains from them and put them to good use...something which the church seemed to have lost sight of in this country in the last 40 years...

994

galwayguy22 wrote: »

Jesus that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on boards.

Well done for being a retard.

He's only pointing out that the natural obedience and apathy of the Irishman (and Irishwoman) is what leads us into such dire straits.

fryup

the RC church is by far the wealthiest organisation in the world (bigger than microsoft & coca cola combined)

And we (the taxpayers) have to fork out for they're wrong doings??

i say F*ck that!!

they're not getting a penny of my money

Rented Mule

galwayguy22 wrote: »

Jesus that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on boards.

Well done for being a retard.

Who let the priest in here ?

Mr Benevolent

This isn't just the church's fault. The church0 was the equivalent of the social welfare back then - they took a child off a family's hands for whatever reason and paid for that child to be brought up. The government knew everything that was going on in there and probably turned a blind eye in return for the massive helping hand. The church was essentially subsidising the government as they had no ability to help anyone back then.

This is what happens when you give a group of celibate people with almost no access to the real world a group of essentially dependant helpless kids. They make up a lie and begin to believe it. Then the lie becomes their truth, the old 'we're doing this for your own good' scam.

Think about it. This whole problem was caused by a myriad of factors.

- The church being allowed to administer 'social aid'.
- The church outsourcing their problems to the christian brothers etc.
- Parents having too many kids to sustain a family.
- Society's attitudes to mental illness.
- No health system.
- No proper education system.
- A moronic civil war that did nothing for the country.
- No real government until the 40's.

Ireland wasn't the only one to have these problems. What about Switzerland's agricultural slave system (involving the government taking country children away from their families and selling them to large farms as slaves) flourished up to the 60's? Didn't think so. Or the Australian method of helping Aborigines up to the 60's? No?

The above doesn't excuse anything though. What went on was horrific and should be remembered as such.

Mr.Lizard

PeakOutput wrote: »

in that case anyone who voted for any politician who broke the law should share the prison sentence

I didn't say that the public of the day should charged with the same crime as the person who directly commited the crime. I said that it is wrong to just stand aloof from the findings of this report and act like it happened on some other planet when in reality it was we the people (or particularily our ancestors with their narrow backward views of what society should be - narrow backward views that still exist here today to a lesser extent) who created the social system for this sick practice to flurish. Everyone who had any say in the country of that time is somewhat to blame.

meditraitor

Mr.Lizard wrote: »

I didn't say that the public of the day should charged with the same crime as the person who directly commited the crime. I said that it is wrong to just stand aloof from the findings of this report and act like it happened on some other planet when in reality it was we the people (or particularily our ancestors with their narrow backward views of what society should be - narrow backward views that still exist here today to a lesser extent) who created the social system for this sick practice to flurish. Everyone who had any say in the country of that time is somewhat to blame.

I have no peadaphile/abusive catholic clergy in my family!

Anyone else?
Didnt think so, It was not us the people that commited these hainous crimes but the catholic church and therefore they should pay.

The catholic church has the money, we as a nation have not.

fryup

meditraitor wrote: »

The catholic church has the money, we as a nation have not.

exactly!!!

does the goverment honestly think we are going to roll over on this one????:mad:

they want us you & me the innocent taxpayer to pay cough up for the crimes of the clergy

Well if they do they've got another thing coming...there will be uproar!!

PeakOutput

Confab wrote: »

- The church being allowed to administer 'social aid'.
- The church outsourcing their problems to the christian brothers etc.
- Parents having too many kids to sustain a family.
- Society's attitudes to mental illness.
- No health system.
- No proper education system.
- A moronic civil war that did nothing for the country.
- No real government until the 40's.

they are all reasons why the church had such control NONE of them are reasons why a priest would want to do that to a child it is that simple.these were individual members of an organisation put in charge of children and then abused them. it is the priests and the organisations responsibility not the person who sent the child to the institution

I didn't say that the public of the day should charged with the same crime as the person who directly commited the crime. I said that it is wrong to just stand aloof from the findings of this report and act like it happened on some other planet when in reality it was we the people (or particularily our ancestors with their narrow backward views of what society should be - narrow backward views that still exist here today to a lesser extent) who created the social system for this sick practice to flurish. Everyone who had any say in the country of that time is somewhat to blame.

as i said the church has been raping kids ALL OVER THE WORLD in countries of different systems and different religous majorities that kind of disproves any argument that our society was the main cause / any cause in the abuses. the fact that we relied so heavily on the church simply meant that alot of children were under the churches care and that alot of children got abused.

even if i was to accept that the goverment or society was to blame in any way it certainly was not 90% at fault with the church being 10% at fault it should at the very very least be the exact opposite

exactly!!!

does the goverment honestly think we are going to roll over on this one????

they want us you & me the innocent taxpayer to pay cough up for the crimes of the clergy

Well if they do they've got another thing coming...there will be uproar!!

its already happened our goverment is legally bound to pay 90% of the damages and the church is legally bound to pay 10%. according to prime time last night there is no legal way for us to change that and if the christian brothers decide to pay more it will be totally their choice 'out of the goodness of their hearts'

jdivision

To be honest I'd like to know if Mr Woods is a member of a certain organisation with links to the Catholic Church.

stovelid

A billion is a lot. Maybe a like-for-like punishment would suffice. They could just build a theme industrial school, send all the offending priests there in schoolboy outfits, and hire in some contract abusers dressed in clerical gear.

AckwelFoley

meditraitor wrote: »

Looking at the RTE news site it seems obvious that we could save 1 Billion yoyo's (give it to the nurses/guards or me) by not paying for the abuses carried out by the Catholic religious orders.

Why has someone not thought of this before?

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0521/abuse.html


As joe taxpayer I would like to tell them to Get to be fucked and pay for their own crimes.

You are missing one vital point there ted.

The government are equally responsible.

Granted they didnt penetrate, but they were as good as holdng the padre' mickey while he did, due to their failure to do anything about this abuse when the knew at the time it wss going on, and because the children were in the custody of the state when it happened.. the state just picked REALLY BAD babysitters.

AckwelFoley

galwayguy22 wrote: »

, I'm just calling a spade a spade.

and you could be a racist...

I think they prefer the term "African American"

The_Minister

fryup wrote: »

exactly!!!

does the goverment honestly think we are going to roll over on this one????:mad:

they want us you & me the innocent taxpayer to pay cough up for the crimes of the clergy

Well if they do they've got another thing coming...there will be uproar!!

:rolleyes: We already paid the money. It's already been given out.

Sir Oxman

This utterly corrupt shower of gangsters called Fianna Fail railroaded this deal, signed sealed and delivered on the very last day of office for the FF/PD govt in 2002.

"This appalling deal, worth hundreds of millions to the orders who shielded (and continue to protect) child abusers, was finalised in such a way as to hide it as much as possible from public scrutiny.

The main architect of the deal was minister for education Michael Woods and, wouldn’t you know it, he and his cute cabinet colleague rubber stamped it on June 5th, 2002 – the very last day of the outgoing Fianna Fáil/PD coalition government. Ministers paid it scant heed – their attention, like the rest of the country’s – was firmly fixed on the Ireland v Germany World Cup match. They adjourned early that day to get to the nearest television set.

It subsequently emerged that both Department of Finance officials and the attorney general’s office were unhappy with how the deal had come to pass. Both had been excluded from much of the negotiation, which, unusually, was handled by Woods and his secretary general John Dennehy alone.

It was generally felt by State officials that a 50/50 split of the redress cost between the State and the religious orders was the fairest option. An equal sharing of the responsibility for the abuse of so many thousands of children was considered entirely appropriate."
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0522/1224247111378.html?via=rel

Notice not one word from CORI about their MORAL obligation to repay financially the poor innocent children whose lives they attempted to/did ruin but plenty about the countrys LEGAL obligation to uphold the stinking, corrupt FF nod-and-a-wink deal done.

If the streets aren't heaving with ordinary joes seething with anger at this poxy govt and the poxier bunch of dirty, sadistic money-grubbing bastards in dresses by this summers end, well we may as well just abandon this rotten, fetid ****hole of a kip to the bloodsuckers.

The_Minister

I have to admit that I was shocked to learn that most people in government didn't know about the deal until after it was signed by the Minister in question.

Bottle_of_Smoke

The state should have done a better job of regulating the church so in my opinion have to take some responsibility. The majority should be paid by the church though.

Time Magazine

The State essentially outsourced its educational responsibilities to the Church. That led to awful, awful consequences. The Department of Education completely ignored numerous complaints about the horrific sins that were occurring. The Gardaí laughed at children who complained.

It's funny how people here are demanding the separation of Church and State, yet feel the State have no responsibility to bear for this. There should be separation of Church and State largely because the State is partly to blame.