Ulster/Connacht - should they merge?

Digifriendly

I know this will provoke much debate but I'm only flagging it to see what people's views are on the immediate future of these 2 provinces. Both fill 2 of the bottom 3 places in the ML. To be honest I feel Ulster have made little progress under Matt Williams who has just resigned. Like Connacht (beating Leinster/Munster in Galway) they can produce the odd big performance (beating Munster in Limerick/Harelquins at Ravenhill) but overall this has been another mediocre seaon. Both provinces seem light years away from what we saw from Leinster in the HC semi-final at Croke Park and Munster in the HC quarter-final vs Ospreys. The league table does not lie. I'm also told that Munster/Leinster get big financial rewards from reaching knock-out stages of HC while Ulster and Connacht will continue to struggle to buy in some of the better players. In all honesty I can't see Ulster qualifying for the latter stages of HC in the forseeable future. If Connacht do achieve qualification for HC (best chance seems to through ML and finishing above Dragons) like Ulster I feel they would struggle in pool stages. So future to be honest doesn't seem terribly bright for either province. Sorry if this sounds a bit doom and gloom but I think it is facing reality.
I know a merger might seem unthinkable to both sets of supporters and there are major problems re logistics e.g. where would you play matches etc. But should some kind of link be explored? If best of both teams were to play together would this not make a more competitive side that could challenge Leinster/Munster dominance at present in Irish rugby? Any views much appreciated.

toomevara

Absolutely not, it would be an unmitigated disaster. It would dilute significantly the brand of Ulster rugby, which,despite recent on-field travails is strong with a good supporter base, and completely destroy the game in Connacht. It's lose/lose all round.

I'm not going to rehash the Connacht debate, the problems which dog rugby in the west are well documented and debated, but Ulster are seriously punching below their weight at the moment and with the right set up/coach and playing ethos there's no reason they cant make an impact. They've also got to be a lot more judicious in their choice and number of foreign imports

jimmybeige

Sorry, but that is really not a good idea at all and can't see how it would benefit either province. Ulster in particular are in no need of any kind of merger.

Firstly Ulster are not just capable of the odd big performance. They were consistently in the top few in the Magners League in recent years. If every team who had a poor season or two merged then there would be very few teams in the world. Ulster are also a very young team currently with a great selection of talented players like cave, pollock and ferris.

Connacht on the other hand are indeed in need of some development and restructuring but that is another story.

Leinster and Munster dominance? Short term memory I'm afraid. Munster and Ulster are still the only two Irish teams to have won the Heineken Cup. Leinster have hardly dominated anything in recent years and one final in what was up until recently a year of poor performances for them hardly makes them dominant. They have been good in the Magners league indeed, but they have hardly dominated. If one or two bad seasons in a row doesn't make you a terrible team, one or two good ones doesn't make you a great one. I'm not saying that Ulster are currently on the same level as Leinster or Munster, but there is hardly reason for them being merged with another province. Knee-jerk reaction I'd say and no, they shouldn't and won't be merged.

Hippo

Is this a serious suggestion?

toomevara

Hippo wrote: »

Is this a serious suggestion?

Probably more of a spitball after a few pints!...

nerophis

toomevara wrote: »

dog rugby in the west are well documented and debated

The sportsground has never been ideal

justsomebloke

just no. As said Ulster are just seriously under performing at the moment but have a great tradition and will bounce back.

conno16

Connaughster

they even sound good
with williams gone and connaught on a downward spiral for a few years, this proposal should be at least considered at lansdowne road
we could have a real force here with the 3 "provinces"
would deffo help our chances of retaining the heineken cup

velocirafter

conno16 wrote: »

Connaughster

they even sound good
with williams gone and connaught on a downward spiral for a few years, this proposal should be at least considered at lansdowne road
we could have a real force here with the 3 "provinces"
would deffo help our chances of retaining the heineken cup

Connacht aren't on a downward spiral, they're at the bottom of the pile, there's nowhere to spiral to!!

Hippo

toomevara wrote: »

Probably more of a spitball after a few pints!...

justsomebloke

velocirafter wrote: »

Connacht aren't on a downward spiral, they're at the bottom of the pile, there's nowhere to spiral to!!

actually if we do get a couple of italian teams in the Magners League, then there maybe clubs looking to get Connacht out of it and put them in to the British and Irish cup, thus reducing the amount of games that teams would have to play in an extended Magners League

conno16

Cannaughster, when established, will be an attractive proposition for fringe players at munster and leinster
at present, only players (from these 2 provinces) on the verge of the scrapheap would consider a move to the west or up north

it will be a true breeding ground for future leinster and munster rugby stars
i know at least 10 fringe players, top quality if they get good game time, that would sign almost immediately

CatFromHue

to quote a famous ulster man

"Ulster says NOOO!!!!"

Ulster have won both the heineken in 1999, i think, and celtic league in 05/06

They have had a poor couple of season but to get rid or merge them would be a bad idea.

I remember reading in the paper that the Leinster Ulster derby's were the big ones and only in recent times that its become the Munster Leinster derby's which are the big ones

jimmybeige

Connacht and Ulster together would not be a province.

Plus, winning the Heineken Cup is not the sole objective of the provinces. If it were, we may as just have a single team and focus everything on winning that.

Truth is Ulster provides some quality players to the Irish team an have been very competitive in the past. Connacht could also be very useful to irish rugby. With all the quality players that gone abroad and all the youth not being given adequate playing time at the other provinces, it could be a very competitive team also....but as mentioned, that's a different discussion.

TheBigGuy

the North-western provinces?

Robbo

A splendid idea.

In the spirit of cross-border collaboration, a new stadium should be constructed straddling the border between Blacklion and Belcoo, hovering above the river. Former Connacht supporters will enter from the Blacklion side and the Ulster chaps can enter the demilitarised zone from the Belcoo side, making sure they bring in the cheap beer from Asda. A passport control checkpoint will exist on the way to the gents at half time.

OP, I suggest you read Puckoon.

chupacabra

This is blasphemy. This is madness!!

Hippo

Robbo wrote: »

OP, I suggest you read Puckoon.

Superb!

When you think about it, there are certainly grounds for creating North London Athletic out of the ashes of Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur, given their season of under-achievement. There's even a case for creating a Merseyside Rovers out of Everton and Liverpool seeing as neither has won anything (yet) this season.

Or......maybe not.

toomevara

Robbo wrote: »

OP, I suggest you read Puckoon.

Brilliant recommendation..I knew this madcap scheme had the ring of familiarity...

anonymous_joe

Ulster are massively under-achieving.

A good coach and a few clever signings (or even resignings) and they'd give Munster or Leinster a run for their money.

They've definitely got some potentially outstanding players.

conno16

like who?

"rocky" wallace and humprhies younger bro with the two left feet?

conno16

conno16 wrote: »

like who?

"rocky" wallace and humprhies younger bro with the two left feet?

Cave
Wallace
Ferris
Danielli
Best
Botha
Boss

The have some great players and are massively underachieving.

anonymous_joe

conno16 wrote: »

like who?

"rocky" wallace and humprhies younger bro with the two left feet?

Isn;t Humphreys left footed as it is?

irishbucsfan

Tanner Incalculable Metro wrote: »

Cave
Wallace
Ferris
Danielli
Best
Botha
Boss

The have some great players and are massively underachieving.

This.

Plus, Pollock, Trimble, Court.

Also considering they have one of the most advanced training facilities in Europe... I think Ulster are doing just fine by themselves.

themont85

Ulster were going places with Matt Williams, dissapointing to see him going, a top coach. Ulster have been on a upward curve this year. Their performance in Thomand, wasn't like Connacht's deserved but not nearly as resounding as Ulsters. They flattened Munster, Leinster surely took a leaf out of their game plan for the semi. Ulster is a proud rugby province, ridiculous suggestion.

Amazotheamazing

If you look at Ulster over it's entire history, it is by far the most dominant province. In fact, traditionally it's a level above both Leinster and Munster. The players they produced are counted as among the best to ever play rugby, Kyle, Gibson, McBride etc.

Even in the 1980's (when Leinster were a dominant team), it was Ulster who beat the Grand Slam Australia team (in 1984, iirc).

I have absolutely no idea why the game has declined there. Their clubs are no longer anywhere near the best in Ireland (same as many of the traditional Leinster clubs) but their schools system is still producing players with a lot of potential. Ulster need to find out why so many talented underage players aren't making it to the pro level. If they can fix that, they'll probably become a top team in Europe.

Connacht, on the other hand, are decades behind the other provinces, imo.

anonymous_joe

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

If you look at Ulster over it's entire history, it is by far the most dominant province. In fact, traditionally it's a level above both Leinster and Munster. The players they produced are counted as among the best to ever play rugby, Kyle, Gibson, McBride etc.

Even in the 1980's (when Leinster were a dominant team), it was Ulster who beat the Grand Slam Australia team (in 1984, iirc).

I have absolutely no idea why the game has declined there. Their clubs are no longer anywhere near the best in Ireland (same as many of the traditional Leinster clubs) but their schools system is still producing players with a lot of potential. Ulster need to find out why so many talented underage players aren't making it to the pro level. If they can fix that, they'll probably become a top team in Europe.

They'll recover soon I reckon. The next generation is looking very good, and if they could sign Bowe back and maybe one or two of their errant players they might be a force sooner than we reckon.

They've got the strongest front row in Ireland on paper, and a very good international backrow.

Half-backs are passable, while the backline's good enough. They're a potentially quality outfit.

Connacht, on the other hand, are decades behind the other provinces, imo.

They're just smaller. Much, much smaller.

thehighground

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I
Even in the 1980's (when Leinster were a dominant team), it was Ulster who beat the Grand Slam Australia team (in 1984, iirc).

Funnily enough, Ireland which won a fair bit then (with 6/7 Ulster players) during that period was captained by Ciaran Fitzgerald who is from Connacht.

Phrio

Hell no

If it comes to it allow CB to be a private organisation and it'll do grand..
Ulster are rebuilding and will be doing brilliantly in a couple of years I believe... might even get a couple of players back in a year or 2...