Wife Christian, Me Unknown. Guidance Requested

murfie

I am married to a wonderful girl nearly a year now, she being brought up Methodist but would consider herself non denomination Christian. I being Irish was brought up Catholic but as many in Ireland these days don't have much connection to the church itself. I don't have the orthodox christian view, i believe that there is something there we as humans cannot understand but I am unconvinced and cannot 100% jump into a belief without evidence. I am an Engineer so i might look at things more analytical than others and deal with tangible things rather then abstract. I would consider myself a spiritual agnostic if that can even exist.

Over the last few weeks and the last few days especially my wife is having problems with my beliefs or lack of them. She is of the opinion that if i don't believe Jesus died for our sins I wont be joining her in heaven. I respond to this by pointing out the majority of the people on this earth don't share that belief so I cant imagine a God who would not allow the majority of human population into heaven, no matter what kind of life you live.

Its come to head in the differences in beliefs because we are signed up to a bible couples counselling based around a movie called Fireproof. Its about a guys journey with God and his marriage. I think it will be of benefit to us and she doesn't want it to become me standing out for my difference in beliefs.

I am really looking for peoples experience with being in a mixed religion marriage and how does one partner deal with the problems they are having with the others beliefs.

homer911

Wow, this is a tough one. There is no point in saying "told you so", but this type of relationship can be tough. My view would be that your wife should have known your views before your were married (I'm making an assumption here) and that you would have known hers. You both knew the relationship you were getting in to. Assuming everything else in your marriage is fine, then my advice would be firstly to your wife to respect your point of view and step back to give you space. Additionally, if you are open to your own spiritual journey, without having your wife on your case then you might consider some good books that approach the story of Jesus from a historical perspective, and read these in conjunction with the Bible. I remember one great book by Stan Telcin called "Betrayed" where he, as a Jew, sets out to disprove his daughter's acceptance of Jesus as Messiah in a methodical historical way

http://www.amazon.com/Betrayed-Stan-Telchin/dp/0800790685

Best Wishes

robindch

murfie wrote: »

Over the last few weeks and the last few days especially my wife is having problems with my beliefs or lack of them. She is of the opinion that if i don't believe Jesus died for our sins I wont be joining her in heaven.

That's a toughie and while it's too late to say so now, I think it's something that you should have discussed before you made any final commitments.

Ultimately, she's stating that her beliefs are more important in the relationship than yours, and by implication, that her view of the relationship is more important than yours. Short of her changing her beliefs about religion or what constitutes an equal relationship, there's not a lot that you can really do short of moving to a place where people don't supply this religious belief to her and hoping she becomes a good deal less zealous about things.

If she is insistent and won't give you space to have your own belief about immortality, then the simplest solution is to say that you have acquired whatever religious belief she wants you to acquire and trust that she believes you. This would presumably mean being dishonest on your part and, to say the very least, it's a less than perfect solution in a place where people are supposed to be able to trust each other. However, it might be acceptable as some part of a wider deal in which you'll say this, if she'll agree not to bring up the topic again.

BTW, you'll also need to discuss future children and who'll be telling them which particular religious ideas are true and which are false. Given where you are now, it's probably worth doing this sooner rather than later.

And good luck!

PDN

robindch wrote: »

Short of her changing her beliefs about religion or what constitutes an equal relationship, there's not a lot that you can really do short of moving to a place where people don't supply this religious belief to her and hoping she becomes a good deal less zealous about things.

What a wonderfully quaint and patriarchal attitude. If a husband doesn't like his wife's beliefs then he should whisk her away to a location more conducive to his own way of thinking. I didn't think such Victorian attitudes still existed nowadays.

philologos

Note the phrase "supplying religious belief to her". Do you see religion as a drug robindch?

murfie

Thanks for that guys, just to add a little more on some of the questions, we both knew where we stood on religious beliefs before entering into the marriage. I am non judgemental in this regard and didn't care that we thought different, it was or is more of an issue for her and she at the time decided that because she loves me that we could work through it and in time I would be "saved" and find Jesus.

She has never forced her beliefs on me nor I her and we have gone on like that fine, its not a big issue. But maybe now she realises that its not as simple for me to flat out believe in something that in my opinion has so many flaws, flaws in the bible and church.

I don't think i should go down the path of lying to her about what i believe in, its not really respecting her or myself doing that.

But i will look up that historical book on Jesus, it sounds like a interesting read.

philologos

OP: As hard as it seems, she is just concerned about your salvation. Have you considered going to church with her? I don't think people expect you to "flat out believe", I don't think the majority of Christians do. You seem to have a lot of misconceptions about Christianity, why not give it a shot?

murfie

I wouldn't like to think myself to have misconceptions on Christianity, been brought up Catholic and in a De La Salle brothers school I have had my fair share of exposure to Christianity. I do in fact go with her on special occasions to church.
I am in no way closed off to her beliefs, I find theology a interesting subject and try to discover why people believe the things they do, i even sat down with the church pastor to discuss my spirituality.

Sure I could give it a shot as you say, but how many people are Christians going through the motions, doing the church thing and basically for what. I think its deeper than that and if i ever was to have a change in my beliefs it would be a more profound thing then just trying it out, i have been there already.

When you suggested that i thought of that story in Sex and the city, where that one girl changes from christian to Jew to marry her husband. I never got that as, how can someone change their religion or beliefs so easily.

philologos

Christianity is deeper than that, but people do start somewhere. I started to put my trust in God and I asked Him that if He was there that He would reveal Himself through the Bible as I read it. Guess what? He actually did.

murfie

i see what you mean now.

antiskeptic

murfie wrote: »

I am married to a wonderful girl nearly a year now, she being brought up Methodist but would consider herself non denomination Christian. I being Irish was brought up Catholic but as many in Ireland these days don't have much connection to the church itself. I don't have the orthodox christian view, i believe that there is something there we as humans cannot understand but I am unconvinced and cannot 100% jump into a belief without evidence. I am an Engineer so i might look at things more analytical than others and deal with tangible things rather then abstract. I would consider myself a spiritual agnostic if that can even exist.

Let's assume for a moment that she's a Christian (as defined by God) and you're not. In this case there will exist a level of separation between the two of you in an area of your life. You might consider that separation to compare to the separation that exists between all couples (he loves golf, she doesn't get it at all). You might consider it somewhat less trivial a separation than that. It's likely that it's considered a canyon sized gulf by her however (in the sense that believers frequently look at all aspects of life through God-outlook-tinted spectacles (in the same way that Engineers tend to look at all aspects of life through Engineers lens). It doesn't mean she loves you less. It just means there's an area of connection missing which is important to her. You don't necessarily have to "get" the significance in order to acknowledge the extent of it for her.

I'm a mechanical engineer by the way and can assure you that nothing about Christianity would confound your engineers mindset if ever the time comes that the evidence required to believe is made available to you. God is the one who does that by the way - not apologetics forums like this. You could probably accept in principle that God is in a position to demonstrate his existance to you in such a way that you're convinced of his existance - without his having to write "God here!!" across the sky in too-big-to-be-conceivably-devised-by-man letters for all the world to see.

Over the last few weeks and the last few days especially my wife is having problems with my beliefs or lack of them. She is of the opinion that if i don't believe Jesus died for our sins I wont be joining her in heaven.

It's not as clear cut as that (Abraham didn't believe Jesus died for our sins - but your wife would likely accept that he's 'in heaven') but that's more or less it. Die an unbeliever (as defined by God) and you won't be joining her "in Heaven".

I respond to this by pointing out the majority of the people on this earth don't share that belief so I cant imagine a God who would not allow the majority of human population into heaven, no matter what kind of life you live.

Leaving aside the biblically demonstrable fact that you don't necessarily have to have heard of Jesus Christ or believe that he died for your sins in order to be saved (eg: Abraham mentioned above), the biblical fact is that the majority will perish.

Your destination hasn't to do with how you live btw. Hitler could theoretically be in Heaven and Mother Theresa in Hell. Ask your wife - she'll probably confirm

Its come to head in the differences in beliefs because we are signed up to a bible couples counselling based around a movie called Fireproof. Its about a guys journey with God and his marriage. I think it will be of benefit to us and she doesn't want it to become me standing out for my difference in beliefs.

I am really looking for peoples experience with being in a mixed religion marriage and how does one partner deal with the problems they are having with the others beliefs.

I know a few Christians who are married to unbelievers (no offence) and in all cases it's difficult - because of the aforementioned gulf. She is called to love you and to hope for you and to pray for you and to demonstrate Christ-in-her by her life in spite of the difficulty. It's the only true testimony she can offer you. You might have to fly on intruments on this one and simply trust that it is immensely difficult for her (because she loves you and you are currently, in her estimation, on a path to damnation)

God bless

robindch

PDN wrote: »

If a husband doesn't like his wife's beliefs then he should whisk her away to a location more conducive to his own way of thinking. I didn't think such Victorian attitudes still existed nowadays.

Did you take the time to read my post before posting your reply?

robindch

murfie wrote: »

I don't think i should go down the path of lying to her about what i believe in, its not really respecting her or myself doing that.

Yes, you're quite right.

From your original post, I assumed wrongly that you were agnostic or atheist and had deep-seated objections to your wife's beliefs. But in your follow-up post, you imply that you could believe what she wants you to believe and, I assume, that you wouldn't be upset doing so. In that case, the easiest solution is just to do whatever's necessary for you to accept your wife's beliefs.

postcynical

This is tough. You cannot force yourself to believe though, faith is a gift.

murfie wrote: »

I wouldn't like to think myself to have misconceptions on Christianity, been brought up Catholic and in a De La Salle brothers school I have had my fair share of exposure to Christianity.

Perhaps your wife's faith and congregation will offer you a more adult insight into Christianity. It can be hard to shake off the dogmatic Catholic upbringing and come to your own honest and critical encounter with Christ. I say this as a Catholic. Try and look at the world through your wife's faith.

Sure I could give it a shot as you say, but how many people are Christians going through the motions, doing the church thing and basically for what. I think its deeper than that and if i ever was to have a change in my beliefs it would be a more profound thing then just trying it out, i have been there already.

It might be better not to speculate on what goes on in other people's hearts especially with something so fundamental as their religious beliefs or faith. I think your stance is the correct one, be honest. If you are honest and open minded then nobody can ask anything more of you. And as a believer, IMO you will be open to receive God's message when He reveals Himself to you. And your wife can pray for that outcome.

Christians believe in a God of truth. Dishonesty always leads us away from God.

Seoid

Hi Murfie,

I'm in a similar situation myself and it is difficult.
It might comfort your wife to know that you're not definitely doomed to hell - Christianity as a whole has different views on this (although some preachers are very certain of their own beliefs). I wrote an essay on this in college but can't remember the details at the moment but it's possible that non-believers will be given a chance after death for example. I think God judges everyone at their own level, based on the choices they made with the experiences and knowledge that they have but I don't know any details.

1 Corinthians 13-14 "And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband."

From your perspective the best thing is to keep an open mind, respect her beliefs and be ready to discuss openly and honestly.

philologos

Seoid: That is hardly an orthodox view, and 1 Corinthians 7 doesn't mention anything about the final judgement.

murfie

Thanks everyone, its an interesting and tough subject, Faith. And been married to my wife has made me look at my faith and try and discover what it is that I actually believe in. I would have been content just to not think about and go through life as i was, without a spiritual aspect to my life.

I think its important even just that I give it a go with an open mind, for her and myself if I do indeed "see the light" as they say. I don't want her to think I am dismissive of what she believes and I can see now that it is a much larger deal for her than me just like antiskeptic wrote, I didn't find our differing beliefs that big an issue.