Luxo Barges - Is now the time?

rebel.ranter

Was just looking at this car:
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Mercedes-Benz/CL-Class/Massive-/200906191764519/advert?channel=CARS

and thinking to myself that is a lot of car for the money, there's a 2009 equivalent for €219,000, what a drop (OK the equivalency might not be exact).


So is it the time to buy a bus like this?
If you had a short commute & didn't mind the road tax would you consider it?

unkel

rebel.ranter wrote: »

So is it the time to buy a bus like this?

There was never a better time than now. That CL looks very good value, but make sure to have it checked out!

rebel.ranter wrote: »

If you had a short commute & didn't mind the road tax would you consider it?

Yup. I'm on my 3rd V8 petrol car

ToxicPaddy

Looks good, unfortunately with a car like that buying it is the cheapest part of owning it.. taxing, insuring, running and maintaining it are the expensive parts..

So something like that as a weekend run around would be a better option.


On the same point, I'm in the market for a very cheap barge, something late 80's, early 90's and preferrably a diesel for a few trips I have to the continent later this year where serious mileage will be covered..

Anyone know any garages selling such vehicles??

Voodoomelon

Certainly is a lot of car for the money, but realistically you're spreading the cost of the car over several years. Mine costs me just short of €5000 a year in insurance, tax and petol alone, so make sure you factor this in.

That's a nice CL except for the diarrhea coloured dash.

L-M

If you could bargain a years warranty out of the dealer, then tax it for the full year in one go, and got a reasonable insurance premium, then fair enough. Try sell it at the end of the year then before the warranty goes out.

For someone who has just 14k to spend, not it's not time to buy one.

For someone that has plenty of bob in the bank incase anything goes wrong, yes, buy away.

Zube

Voodoomelon wrote: »

That's a nice CL except for the diarrhea coloured dash.

Be fair, only the centre console is the colour of liquid sh1te. The rest of the dash is finished in "skanger's slip-on shoe" grey leather and plastic.

I do admire how M-B go to such lengths to make plastic look like an elephant's arse, but why do they then go and make the wood trim like hard shiny plastic?

rebel.ranter

It is tempting alright, if the choice was between sinking €35k into something or this then that would put a new spin on it.
The only thing that would bother me really is the maintenance of it, not the routine stuff mind, the "stuff that goes wrong" part. e.g. a sensor or a cat or something along those lines.
Petrol, tax & insurance I could live with. I suppose you would to me pretty sure you could hang on to it long term, you would probably end up married to it. Mind you the entire value of the car is more than the depreciation suffered on my present car. Even if I drove it to the scrappy in 4 years time I woudl be getting better value than I am now!

nialler

For that money, buy it, I have an S class same year, beautiful car, the CL is a step up again, I've driven a load of them and they don't suffer the ills of the S class of the same year, solid solid machine if you can live with 2 doors and goes like the clappers, between 8-16mpg though so prepared to be dropping to the garage a lot, services with a good indie are relatively cheap compared to the dealers. Put 5k away for work on it over the next 12,000 miles as it all tends to happen in that period (well my s-class did), you can get decent tyres for around 140 a pop rather than 250 for branded tyres, unfortunately your tax will crucify you, as a two door you can't tax as a limo and get it for 72 a year. Also be prepared to drop possibly another 3 grand in depreciation over the next couple of years, they won't drop much further than that.

Eoin

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

Looks good, unfortunately with a car like that buying it is the cheapest part of owning it.. taxing, insuring, running and maintaining it are the expensive parts..

If you compare those figures to an econo-box, then yes. But if you compare it to the base engine model of the same car, then the extra costs aren't that more expensive.

For instance, if you were thinking of a 520, then why not look at the 540 instead.

Taxing it - definitely more.

Servicing costs shouldn't be much more, as most the parts will be the same. Insurance is often no more expensive, depending on the type of car. I doubt a BMW 740 is seen as a risky car, so you probably won't get stung. Petrol - not always that much more either. I don't think I would see much of a drop in MPG if I changed from my 2.5 to a 4.4 5 series.

rebel.ranter

I have a 2.5 5 series myself, I am of the same opinion as you, I should have gone for the 530i or 540i instead at the time. I do all my own maintenance on the car, you are right there would not be a whole lot of difference in maintenance costs really (2 extra spark plugs in the 540i, a bank breaker )

Apart from fuel economy & tax there is not a whole lot in it. With low miles driven fuel economy is not relevant, the tax is €600 more which is a bit extra I suppose.

Eoin

The only thing is that a 525 is probably easier to sell than a 540, but I regret not going for a 530 as it wouldn't have been much more per year to run.

Matt Simis

Yes, great time to buy. See sig!

I would have no problem buying another big engined car. From tracking 6 series, SClass and A8 pricing, they have reached record lows putting them potiential hands of more enthasiasts than ever before. Unfortunately everyone Ive talked to agrees, but is unwilling to put any cash into a car of any sort. I also think the cost of running "a big car" is either grossly over estimated or perhaps Mercs (the benchmark) simply cost more in servicing and running costs.. or Im way out of touch with what running a 1.4l car is like!

L-M

Matt Simis wrote: »

Yes, great time to buy. See sig!

I'll give ya some brown bread for it?

Seriously though, If I had the time, I'd have bought your car ten times over. What a fantastic car is it.

ShadowHearth

I actually drice a clk200 now, and i was chekingthis out aswell. Thought i would love the older model more. What i know older models have bigger quality mark then newer ones.

5.0 is not scaring me... i drive only 10 miles per day to work, and sometimes 30milles to cork for shoping... soe low mpg does not bother me.

Thought one thing really bothers me... running costs... like part prices etc... Really would not like to pay 200eu for sensor a top of 1.5keu tax...

Thought i really think that mercs before 1998 are bullet prove.

Eoin

Maybe it's just the photo, but the dash in the advert doesn't look particularly "premium" to me.

netwhizkid

ToxicPaddy wrote: »

On the same point, I'm in the market for a very cheap barge, something late 80's, early 90's and preferrably a diesel for a few trips I have to the continent later this year where serious mileage will be covered..

Anyone know any garages selling such vehicles??

I'm thinking E-Class Mercedes maybe running on SVO with LHD for the continent, an Autobox would be nice too depending on your tastes. The UK is the place to look as finding LHD in Ireland of that age is rare. Alot of Eastern Europeans do land here with some massive barges altogheter if you are friendly with them they may be able sort you out.

Gatster

As Matt Simis stated, it's a great time, with seemingly mint 04+ BMW 6's and S/CL's for under 30k, the '05 750i at Joe Duffys is nice as well and I reckon you could get a decent amount off that with no trade (it's 35k at the moment).

Up to today I seriously contemplated chopping mine in for any of the above but as I don't think they'll rise (if at all) in the next 6-12 months I decided to throw a bit of cash at what I've got and see after Xmas...too much uncertainty to be getting involved at the moment.

I did hear that the air suspension and gearboxes can be expensive fix-its on the CL, not sure about the gearbox but from what I gather air-suspension is a nightmare if it buggers (see older Audi RS6...it put me right off buying one of them as I wouldn't have been able to buy & VRT it and have 2k left to get coilovers on it, may consider next year )

Matt Simis

Gatster wrote: »

I did hear that the air suspension and gearboxes can be expensive fix-its on the CL, not sure about the gearbox but from what I gather air-suspension is a nightmare if it buggers (see older Audi RS6...it put me right off buying one of them as I wouldn't have been able to buy & VRT it and have 2k left to get coilovers on it, may consider next year )

Ah but Air Suspension (as on SClass, topend Touaregs, Phaetons, Allroads etc) is totally different to DRC (as on Audi RS6 and the new TT has a version too).

Air Suspension uses an onboard Air Compressor to pump and deflate 4 Air "Bags", one for each wheel. Each Air Spring (bag) can be replaced independantly and so can the compressor. Springs are around EUR250 each and the compressor about EUR400 for an improved reman version. Air Suspension is a fairly basic system, technologically.

DRC (Dynamic Ride Control) uses a pneumatic recirculation valve (ie Fluid) per wheel as well as a Gas accumulator. DRC, for whatever reason, costs in the thousands to replace/repair.

unkel

rebel.ranter wrote: »

Even if I drove it to the scrappy in 4 years time I woudl be getting better value than I am now!

Exactly - that's the spirit! Don't buy it with a loan. Expect not to be able to sell it on and be aware that something serious could go wrong which could possibly be very expensive to fix or could even render the car to be an economic write off.

That's worst case scenario. You are very likely to have a better experience. In all my years of driving old (average about 15 years old) big engined high end cars, I have only ever had one bill of over €1k, and that was for a big suspension job at 137k miles that I knew was coming at some point. Buy a brand new diesel econobox and I bet you'll have a bigger bill than that within 5 years

eoin wrote: »

I doubt a BMW 740 is seen as a risky car, so you probably won't get stung. Petrol - not always that much more either. I don't think I would see much of a drop in MPG if I changed from my 2.5 to a 4.4 5 series.

Both sound points. A family saloon with a 1.8 petrol engine driven mainly in or around Dublin does about 28MPG. A 4.4 petrol 740 does about 20MPG in the same mix. A 4.4 petrol 740 is cheaper for me to insure than a 2.5l 523 (same year, value, etc.). I bet a 2l 320 would have been even more expensive than the 5-series.

Fishtits

My personal opinion is that now is the worst time ever for buying said or similar steeds. Hence the cheap prices.

High tax, high insurance, high maintenance bills, and you've bought it for life.

Wishbone Ash

A 9 year old car with "0" owners!

Matt Simis

Fishtits wrote: »

My personal opinion is that now is the worst time ever for buying said or similar steeds. Hence the cheap prices.
High tax, high insurance, high maintenance bills, and you've bought it for life.

Debatable high maintenance costs and insurance (for the younger folk it doesnt make much of a difference) aside, minus 5 years or plus 5 years from now, those cars are much more expensive and generally unattainable while the costs you mention stay the same, in or out of a recession. Hell, maybe the costs go down with the price of labour dropping during a recession.

I think you overlooked the difference between in vs out of recession thinking. When you come round to liking the idea, they will be too expensive to buy again.

Voodoomelon

The good thing about these old barges (i hate that term!) is that they are all essentially mechanically sound, you'll rarely have a problem with the engine itself. The transmission is the biggest worry, expect well over €3000 for a refurb'd box or twice that for a new one.

If the cooling system, suspension and electrics were all looked after, you should have few problems.

E39MSport

nialler wrote: »

For that money, buy it, I have an S class same year, beautiful car, the CL is a step up again, I've driven a load of them and they don't suffer the ills of the S class of the same year, solid solid machine if you can live with 2 doors and goes like the clappers, between 8-16mpg though so prepared to be dropping to the garage a lot, services with a good indie are relatively cheap compared to the dealers. Put 5k away for work on it over the next 12,000 miles as it all tends to happen in that period (well my s-class did), you can get decent tyres for around 140 a pop rather than 250 for branded tyres, unfortunately your tax will crucify you, as a two door you can't tax as a limo and get it for 72 a year. Also be prepared to drop possibly another 3 grand in depreciation over the next couple of years, they won't drop much further than that.

How can you tax a car as a limo?

nialler

E39MSport wrote: »

How can you tax a car as a limo?

Get PSV licence, apply to regulator, do NCT, limo licence then tax it.

rebel.ranter

nialler wrote: »

Get PSV licence, apply to regulator, do NCT, limo licence then tax it.

Would the tax man not look to see your accounts for the Limo business you were pro porting to run?

E39MSport

and no probs driving it about for day to ay use with family etc carried?

rebel.ranter

Also I presume you would have additional insurance costs because you were operating the vehicle as a PSV. Would that not balance out the additional costs in the Road Tax in private use form?

sneakyST

Does anyone have any experience of an S Class 320 cdi 01-04. Looking at one of these in the Uk with around 50k on the clock for around 10 grand

nialler

Sneaky I nearly bought one, great MPG but still a tractor, if you're getting one make sure it's the LWB version, there's much more room in the back, you want parking sensors, wooden steering wheel, auto up headrests in back if any of them have distronic (basically cruise control that keeps its distance), full on tv and sat nav, don't get 19" alloys as they ruin the ride quality.

Now for the limo thing, I do the odd bit of fill in work with the car.

Insurance is 300 more than standard with social and domestic use so let's do the math

Private: Insurance €700 (last quote I had), Tax €1399
Limo: Insurance €1100, Tax €72

Says it all really.

And remember if Mick O'Leary can do it why can't we?

sneakyST

Cheers Nialler - anything to look out for - faults wise?

nialler

airmatic is the main thing, pump is easy to do but if the bellows over each wheel go it can be expensive, timing chain at 120,000 miles, crank shaft sensor (bout 60 quid) and buy lots of bulbs if you're daylight running, mercs eat them for breakfast not sure about the xeon ones but certainly the halogen ones. Brakes, with a big auto like that you'll go thru them fairly regularly (I get around 6000 miles) and generally for every 2nd set of pads you need new discs, full set of pads and discs all round tops out around €800.

daRobot

nialler wrote: »

Now for the limo thing, I do the odd bit of fill in work with the car.

Insurance is 300 more than standard with social and domestic use so let's do the math

Private: Insurance €700 (last quote I had), Tax €1399
Limo: Insurance €1100, Tax €72

Says it all really.

And remember if Mick O'Leary can do it why can't we?

I had thoughts of doing this myself aswell, should I buy a nice luxobarge for myself.

Only thing is, the cost of a PSV licence (Which I assume you need before you can tax it, is now a sizeable 1,000 euro)

ToxicPaddy

I have to say the amount of luxobarges on the market at the moment is staggering.. some fab cars out there for very reasonable prices...

Was looking at this one and have to say, its very good of the private seller to arrange finance and a test drive with an appointment.. he will even take a part exchange.. :rolleyes:

Linky

Padraig Mor

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/Li/200852191290142/advert?channel=CARS

A 2005 740Li for 20k??? Someone stop me from driving over to Wexford right now!

EPM

Padraig Mor wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/Li/200852191290142/advert?channel=CARS

A 2005 740Li for 20k??? Someone stop me from driving over to Wexford right now!

Get down there fairly lively and put your money where your mouth is:pac:

Very nice but surely it has to be a typo, no?

Padraig Mor

EPM wrote: »

Get down there fairly lively and put your money where your mouth is:pac:

Very nice but surely it has to be a typo, no?

Doubt it. That car has been listed for ages at 30k, and 40k before that. Buy my car someone!

nialler

just had a look at a similar car on autoquake, 16 grand but another 13 grand to VRT it, that 740li is a damn bargain and a helluva lot of car for that money.

HashSlinging

Padraig Mor wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/Li/200852191290142/advert?channel=CARS

A 2005 740Li for 20k??? Someone stop me from driving over to Wexford right now!

I just laughed out loud.

Cañitas

I would wait till the 06 onwards S class diesel became cheaper...drive a eco box for a year or two to save on money..

It looks far classier and has one of the best dashboards out there...

Ideally i could see myself owning one of these but using say a mitsubishi spacestar as an everyday running car and this car for weekends, holidays and other occasions...



Some nice inside shots here...
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/gallery/?model=1454&img=archive/Mercedes-Benz/S-Class%20(06-)/39_s_class.jpg

Stevie Dakota

Hmmm, toss up between this and a new Mondeo....

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A8/3.0-tdi-/200920192808983/advert?channel=CARS

niceirishfella

nialler wrote: »

Sneaky I nearly bought one, great MPG but still a tractor, if you're getting one make sure it's the LWB version, there's much more room in the back, you want parking sensors, wooden steering wheel, auto up headrests in back if any of them have distronic (basically cruise control that keeps its distance), full on tv and sat nav, don't get 19" alloys as they ruin the ride quality.

Now for the limo thing, I do the odd bit of fill in work with the car.

Insurance is 300 more than standard with social and domestic use so let's do the math

Private: Insurance €700 (last quote I had), Tax €1399
Limo: Insurance €1100, Tax €72

Says it all really.

And remember if Mick O'Leary can do it why can't we?

good stuff that. Tell me, does the dept of whatever have criteria over what can be a limo?

Padraig Mor

Stevie Dakota wrote: »

Hmmm, toss up between this and a new Mondeo....

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A8/3.0-tdi-/200920192808983/advert?channel=CARS

Jaysus - what is with Wexford and bargain basement Panzerwagons?!

unkel

Padraig Mor wrote: »

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/7-Series/Li/200852191290142/advert?channel=CARS

A 2005 740Li for 20k??? Someone stop me from driving over to Wexford right now!

Bargain! :eek:

Voodoomelon

I'd say the 4 litre is putting people off, with the E65 I reckon a lot of second hand buyers will either be after the 730d or go all out with the 750, the 740 is kinda in no mans land.

Boggo wheels dont help either.

Wishbone Ash

nialler wrote: »

Get PSV licence, apply to regulator, do NCT, limo licence then tax it.

nialler wrote: »

Insurance is 300 more than standard with social and domestic use so let's do the math

Private: Insurance €700 (last quote I had), Tax €1399
Limo: Insurance €1100, Tax €72

Says it all really.

And remember if Mick O'Leary can do it why can't we?

I think you're missing the point nialler.

If taxed as a limo, it cannot be legally used as a private car. It's the same with the reduced motor tax for taxis. If the owner chooses this option, the car cannot be legally used as a private car.

If it was that easy, we'd all be at it!

niceirishfella

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I think you're missing the point nialler.

If taxed as a limo, it cannot be legally used as a private car. It's the same with the reduced motor tax for taxis. If the owner chooses this option, the car cannot be legally used as a private car.

If it was that easy, we'd all be at it!

when was the last time it was enforced tho?

unkel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

a lot of second hand buyers will either be after the 730d

Penny wise, pound foolish. The 730d is costs a lot more second hand than a 740 petrol. You'll need to do a lot of driving to ever recoup that. And drive an inferior car all that time too.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

or go all out with the 750, the 740 is kinda in no mans land.

There's very little between the 740 and 750 - both are decent V8s. People going all out will go for the V12 760 (but will have massively higher running costs compared to the V8s)

Voodoomelon

Perhaps, but you'd be scratching your head looking for a 760 in Ireland. 730ds are more desireable than the 740 and as a result are more expensive, yet people don't seem to grasp, like you said, that it would be a cheaper to get the 740 in the long run.

And its not necessarily all down to the engine, you get more standard equipment with the 750 over the 740. It also has a nice 750 badge on the back.

unkel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

730ds are more desireable than the 740

More desireable? :eek: Only in Ireland

Voodoomelon wrote: »

you get more standard equipment with the 750 over the 740.

You sure? I thought specs were pretty much identical on the two. Afaik the price difference when new was very small, which would be an indication of same / similar spec too (only paying for bigger, more powerful version of the same engine). Now the 760 comes with more goodies as standard alright!

And no matter which one I would own, I would take off the rear badge. Except for the diesel because the tractor sound is a bit of a giveaway

maxwell smart

I made a big decision today and plumped for this
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A8/4.2-QUAT/200913192309434/advert?channel=CARS

have been looking at it for about two weeks, its an ex-Lidl directors car, so exceptional service history guaranteed. So I rang today at about 2:30 thinking I'd go in at 13k......it sold at 2pm......sick!!!

Anyway, another ex-Lidl one coming in there soon he tells me, another 4.2 so I'll hold fire for another while