Haggling with Harvey?

Hey guys and girls,


Just wondering what the crack is with Harvey Norman's these days where pricing is concerned.I got aleaflet in the door the other day and the slogan on every page is "Harvey Norman: Where pricing is Negotiable!", but in the catalogue, only a select number of products have "negotiable" written under their prices.


I want to get a laptop, but I wouldn't mind saving a few € if i could. The laptop is €477 i think (i think it's already been reduced) and is a Toshiba Laptop. Should I chance my arm and risk looking like a fool? Am i likely to accomplish anything?


Also, is haggling only a viable option when paying with cash? I'd like to pay with credit card (handier for me) but any time i've ever haggled on anything before, i always paid with cash (i didn't have a credit card back then).


Just looking for some thoughts before i approach them tomorrow (or before they approach me and ask me "do ye need any help?" and when i say "No, I'm just looking" they still stand there looking at me... I really should stop wearing that balaclava into their stores.)

ShatterProof

Deleted User wrote: »

....... Should I chance my arm and risk looking like a fool? .....

yes you should and no you wont look like a fool. The shop will probably be empty anyway. Offer €318.

Headshot

the laptop is 477 euro

say you only have 400 euro in your pocket,take it or leave it
they wont know if its cash or credit card

or a better option i think

act the fool about the laptop and ask for some help about the laptop,ask the name of the employee and handshake
then ask stuff about the laptop,then when its nearly done,ask about the price and say all you have is 400 euro in your pocket

you couldnt do a deal

G'wan

mikemac

If you're not embarrassed by your first offer then it's too high.
Well I read that in Accomadation forum so this is slighty different.

Aren't they pulling out of Ireland? Even more reason to bargain.
Haggle hard

Maybe you won't get money off. But with a laptop they are loads of different extras you might want, maybe something small like printer ink as an example

partyatmygaff

Headshot wrote: »

the laptop is 477 euro

say you only have 400 euro in your pocket,take it or leave it
they wont know if its cash or credit card

Here's what I guess will happen

Haggler: Here Look, I've only 400 in my pocket, Take it or leave it
Harvey norman Sales monkey: Hmm, The door is about 50m away behind you, I would recommend getting off that high horse of yours too, the door's clearance is only 15ft
Haggler: Well this is crap customer service, I'm never shopping here again and im going to Joe Duffy!


Moral of the story is, the negotiable part means only up to 10% or so at managers discretion, most you'd likely get would be 430.

I won't mention how I'm paying, But I'll say it to one of the sales girls/guys that I can just as easily get it on eBay for €430 (that's a blatant lie, of course), and wouldn't pay much more than that. If they say they can't drop the price, then I'll waffle on about their warranty, confusing them and buying it without them realising i made a show of myself.

If however, they offer anything lower than the price on the shelf, i'll pay no more than €440 for it.

I think €318 would be going too low and I'd probably be laughed at.


I've mooched about the net for reviews on the laptop, etc. (its a Toshiba Satellite L300-1DN) and as far as i can tell, though it's a pretty good laptop for what i'll use it for, it's been discontinued by Toshiba. Dunno if that could help me or not.


Thanks an awful lot for the advice and replies so far everyone. Really appreciate it!

padocon

When my mate was buying a laptop he negotiated the price a little, then picked up the ink he needed for his printer and say's throw in this as well (at no extra cost). They say no you dont buy. They will hardly drop a sale over ink!

Good luck

smelltheglove

Wouldnt you be better off going to a small local computer shop where they will try their best to give you a bargain? I know one guy in Celbridge that always has some good stuff.

smelltheglove

smelltheglove wrote: »

Wouldnt you be better off going to a small local computer shop where they will try their best to give you a bargain? I know one guy in Celbridge that always has some good stuff.

I can see where you're coming from, but they have a pretty decent price on this laptop as it is, and they're pretty handy for me to get to. On top of that, I can't think of any smaller computer shop in the town (Drogheda) worth cecking out that won't try and sell me a top-of-the-range laptop that I don't need.

rubadub

partyatmygaff wrote: »

[/B]Moral of the story is, the negotiable part means only up to 10% or so at managers discretion, most you'd likely get would be 430.

My mate works in Harveys as a salesman. They get commision based on a % of the PROFIT of the sale. It is not up to the manager, they can discount what they want. The big problem is that many items are sold as loss leaders, i.e. very little or no profit, hoping people will buy accessories too. Now I do not believe this is really the case, I expect they tell the salespeople there is very little profit so their commision is far less.

Another mate wanted to get a TV an for a €900 TV the guy working there could only get a €9 staff discount. The sales guys are not impressed with all this, most people are coming in obviously to get a good deal so go for stuff on offer with little or no potential commission.

So the potential discounts depend on item to item, and how desparate a sales man is for commission. e.g. if the profit on a TV is €100, then I could discount it €95 and make feck all on the sale, if I so wished.

In other threads people were saying "they did not want my money and let me walk out", they might have had to sell at a loss to match other stores prices. Also if only making €2 commission it might not be worth his while processing the sale when he could be chasing other customers.

rameire

Deleted User wrote: »

I can see where you're coming from, but they have a pretty decent price on this laptop as it is, and they're pretty handy for me to get to. On top of that, I can't think of any smaller computer shop in the town (Drogheda) worth cecking out that won't try and sell me a top-of-the-range laptop that I don't need.

just three other places to buy laptops in drogheda for you.

The Laptop Shop is in the Laurence centre,
expert store (Michael briscoes) out by motorway,
Mahers Chemist can get some laptops in.

foggy_lad

rubadub wrote: »

My mate works in Harveys as a salesman. They get commision based on a % of the PROFIT of the sale. It is not up to the manager, they can discount what they want. The big problem is that many items are sold as loss leaders, i.e. very little or no profit, hoping people will buy accessories too. Now I do not believe this is really the case, I expect they tell the salespeople there is very little profit so their commision is far less.

Another mate wanted to get a TV an for a €900 TV the guy working there could only get a €9 staff discount. The sales guys are not impressed with all this, most people are coming in obviously to get a good deal so go for stuff on offer with little or no potential commission.

So the potential discounts depend on item to item, and how desparate a sales man is for commission. e.g. if the profit on a TV is €100, then I could discount it €95 and make feck all on the sale, if I so wished.

In other threads people were saying "they did not want my money and let me walk out", they might have had to sell at a loss to match other stores prices. Also if only making €2 commission it might not be worth his while processing the sale when he could be chasing other customers.

they are also getting paid at least minimum wage at the end of the week they should be grateful to be working in these difficult times and stop worrying about the commission they may make!

whippet

foggy_lad wrote: »

they are also getting paid at least minimum wage at the end of the week they should be grateful to be working in these difficult times and stop worrying about the commission they may make!

typical comment from someone who really does not understand the situation.

Yes the rep is probably earning min wage + commission, and yes he should be happy to have a job .. but as with all sales jobs if you are not selling and not meeting targets you won't have a job for long.

I reckon the Tosh notebook in question has a standard trade price of about €430 incl Vat. Harvey might have a couple of quid more to play with based on volume orders.

That means that at a price advertised of €477, less a cost of €430, give a margin of €47, of which 21.5% is VAT. Giving a gross profit of about €39.

Now, out of this €39 euro, Harvey has to pay the basic salary of the rep, commission, rent, heating, lighting, other staff and a volley of other fixed and variable costs.

See where I am coming from?

BTW, I am involved in business to business sales within the IT industry and understand these things, but unfortunatly a very large amount of the consumers can't see beyond the notion that retailler are coining it in with massive margins to play with.

Your best best would be to look for some inks thrown in, these have a fairly high profit margin, an ink selling for €40 may cost Havey's €20 and if they threw that in, you look like you are getting €40 worth of free stuff, while in reality the retailer is just knocking €20 off the price of the the notebook.

amacachi

I was in Harvey Norman's looking at a TV a while back. It was 799 but it was too late to apply for finance. Asked the sales guy if I could get it at that price the next day, "No bother" he said. Back in the next day and it was priced at 999, he just got on the computer and marked it down to 799. Unfortunately I didn't get finance, but it seems they can change to price to whatever they please.

Also, haggling is always worth a shot, however don't be fooled, for example, into getting a 90 quid HDMI cable for "only" 50 quid, it's still a ripoff and there will be other similarly overpriced accessories around.

Clare Bear

My boyfriend got a TV on Saturday and got it down from €500 to €450, Harvey Norman seem to have no problem with knocking off a few euro. Went in to Currys before that and not a chance. Not exactly the nicest of staff either.

calex71

rameire wrote: »

just three other places to buy laptops in drogheda for you.

The Laptop Shop is in the Laurence centre,
expert store (Michael briscoes) out by motorway,
Mahers Chemist can get some laptops in.

Didn't know there was a laptop shop in Drogheda, mind you I've been in the Laurance Center all of two times.

John Mason

we haggled them from €570 to €375 for a mattress


you should definitely do it

foggy_lad

whippet wrote: »

typical comment from someone who really does not understand the situation.

Yes the rep is probably earning min wage + commission, and yes he should be happy to have a job .. but as with all sales jobs if you are not selling and not meeting targets you won't have a job for long.

if they are not up to the task they should find work more suited to their abilities.

whippet

foggy_lad wrote: »

if they are not up to the task they should find work more suited to their abilities.

I think you are failing to grasp what I am saying.

Sales people are employed to make money for the company they are working for. This is guaged by profit margins, to encourage sales people to sell more they get commission as a % of the profit. If they didn't, two guys could be working side by side, one busting his ass and selling twenty units a week, they other lad wandering around and selling five a week. Obviously the guy selling more should earn more and the best most effective method of deciding who earns more is via a commission structure.

You might argue that a sales person on commission will alway try and make as much margin as possible, making it difficult to negotiate the price.

But as time will always show, good sales guys will always try and find the happy medium between volume of sales and % margins.

for example, it would be better to sell 6 units with €200 margin on each than two units with €500 margin.

John_Mc

foggy_lad wrote: »

if they are not up to the task they should find work more suited to their abilities.

A ridiculously obvious comment to make. Do you feel better after posting it? :rolleyes:

Kensington

whippet wrote: »

I think you are failing to grasp what I am saying.

I think he's just trying to wind you up!

drog5920

ive made a few comments about harvey norman now. first up i dont like the guy, he seems like an ignorant fool, secondly, i hate their advertising but i have been reborn in the harvey way thanks to the lads in the computer dept in drogheda. i got a laptop o their flexirent, hire purchase, fantastic. i run a small business, got my tax relief plus my lease relief with handing over a cent in cash but anyway the sales guys. they seem to be open. they have the craic but know their stuff. e.g i went in and the young local lad i always deal with approched me and said "jesus ya mustnt be able to get enough of this place" little things like that, they talk to me like im their mate rather then a customer. all i was looking to buy was a monitor, had my heart on a 17" inch hanns g at 199€. the young lad was straight up and honest and said "i could give ya this or i can give you the 22" for 20€ cheaper", he jst explained that the 17" was aged stock. also my mate haggled €280 off one of the new samsung LCD tvs.

like say whatever yis want about harvey but his staff are 2nd to none and like a guy further up said, they can drop prices at their own discretion, so its worth even been nice to these guys instead of bein a tough customer, theyll look after you!

swingking

I went into HN yesterday to get photos developed. While I was there I saw they were selling a really nice monitor for 130. The sales guy knew I was interested in this but was surprised me was that he wouldn't let it go at any other price than the written; then he started going on about how they have to sell this item at below cost price which is total rubbish.

Anyway because he refused to offer me any discount or any help I walked out of the shop.

Greedy bastards is what they are :mad:

John_Mc

swingking wrote: »

I went into HN yesterday to get photos developed. While I was there I saw they were selling a really nice monitor for 130. The sales guy knew I was interested in this but was surprised me was that he wouldn't let it go at any other price than the written; then he started going on about how they have to sell this item at below cost price which is total rubbish.

Anyway because he refused to offer me any discount or any help I walked out of the shop.

Greedy bastards is what they are :mad:

Has it occurred to you that this item was already as low as it could go? €130 for a monitor... doesn't sound like it gets lower than that.

Unreasonable greedy bastard is what you are :rolleyes:

I just made this post in a different thread about looking for laptop. I rang Power City, Harvey and D.I.D to see would out-do each other for the best price. It's actually more relevant to this thread than to the one i posted it in



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=60363805&postcount=6

Dampsquid

There's some crap in this thread...

HN can knock euro's off their prices because nearly everything is over priced to begin with!

Example - last summer. Was buying a Samsung TV, it was 1549 in HN, and that was advertised with at 15% discount. ie. it was 1549 after the discount.

Same TV was in DID for 1350. In the end, i bought it up north for 1100 in currys.

ch750536

I bought all our bedroo furniture from them, they came down aby 15% plus free delivery.

Always found the staff a cut above other stores.

APMom

Yes they are overpriced except for their photo printing which they do immediately. I go in quite frequently to get photos done and yesterday I wanted laminating pouches and was trying to figure out which ones would be better value - the manager came over and asked me was i ok and I said yes just buying these (€21.99) when he called over another guy and said give these for €18, that's a lot more than the 10% I knew they'd bargain on. I've also haggled on a dishwasher and washing maching and haggle on photo prices when I've loads to do after a holiday.

rob316

As much as I hate there ads and there so called sales. Ive bought alot from harvey norman and they always turned out as the best deal. I bought a ps3 and a 50" sammy plasma before all at great prices. They will always knock a nice bit of what your interested too and very helpful and knowledgable staff (well whoever ive ever dealt with).

APMom wrote: »

Yes they are overpriced except for their photo printing which they do immediately. I go in quite frequently to get photos done and yesterday I wanted laminating pouches and was trying to figure out which ones would be better value - the manager came over and asked me was i ok and I said yes just buying these (€21.99) when he called over another guy and said give these for €18, that's a lot more than the 10% I knew they'd bargain on. I've also haggled on a dishwasher and washing maching and haggle on photo prices when I've loads to do after a holiday.

I'm in the stationary trade and the profit margins on laminating pouches is so high you wouldnt believe it. If I sold a pack for €20 im talking atleast a 200% profit I'd make.

drog5920

think i had my 1st bad experience with harvey yesterday. went in nd looked for the guy i usually deal with, he wasnt in so i went to another guy. think he was eastern european. i bought a printer off them about 2 weeks ago but i wasnt sure if i had the usb cable or not so the guy wrote on my receipt that the belkin cable wud be half price for me. anyway went i n yesterday and this other guy was having none of it. i asked if i could see the manager he said "i am the manager" which i know for a fact he isnt. gonna shoot up today to see if my usual guy is there, if not i dont think ill be dealing with mr. harvey anymore. unfortunate because i like to be able to talk to a sales guy like i talk to my mates, evrywhere else they just seem like lickarse nonothings

swingking

John_Mc wrote: »

Has it occurred to you that this item was already as low as it could go? €130 for a monitor... doesn't sound like it gets lower than that.

Unreasonable greedy bastard is what you are :rolleyes:

reported. There's no need to get personal.

Oasis44

drog5920 wrote: »

ive made a few comments about harvey norman now. first up i dont like the guy, he seems like an ignorant fool, !

FYI the name 'Harvey Norman' is derived from the surnames of the two men who set up the company in New Zealand/Australia :rolleyes:

rubadub

swingking wrote: »

reported. There's no need to get personal.

:rolleyes: stop wasting peoples time...

swingking wrote: »

Greedy bastards is what they are :mad:

My mate works there, stop insulting him :rolleyes:

Dampsquid wrote: »

There's some crap in this thread...

HN can knock euro's off their prices because nearly everything is over priced to begin with.

You have obviously not read the thread, I already explained how the commission structure is set up in HN. People are going in asking salespeople for discounts, often stuff cannot be discounted at all. This thread is about haggling in HN. Also I know the furniture has bigger markups so is far more likely to be able to be discounted by salespeople.

Heinrich

John_Mc wrote: »

Has it occurred to you that this item was already as low as it could go? €130 for a monitor... doesn't sound like it gets lower than that.
Unreasonable greedy bastard is what you are :rolleyes:

http://www.marxcomputers.ie/

Have a look at the price for 19" Hansg monitors...

Go please Harvey, please go!

drog5920

where is marxx computers located? wud love to see his shop!!

drog5920

http://www.marxcomputers.ie/ haha look at their laptops, did, harvey, powercity, and currys are hammering this guy. also they are all old model acers, ya cudve at least used komplett or elara as an example

drog5920

by the way, went in to harveys yesterday. told d guy wat happened with the cable. he charged me a euro for it was talkin to him about people ringing up and does he get a lot of em. he said dat they can get annoying because he price checks all d written prices and makes his laptops cheaper then the rest, then people ring him and say they saw such and such a laptop for x amount, can he beet it. if he says yeah, the person goes off and rings the other crowd saying harvey will do it for this much, they ring him back then saying that powercity or briscoe is doin it for this till eventually its no worth his while. like i know personally i wouldnt entertain someone looking to get €150 - €200 off a €600 laptop, when theres only €20 or €30 profit on it at the full price.

drog5920

drog5920 wrote: »

by the way, went in to harveys yesterday. told d guy wat happened with the cable. he charged me a euro for it was talkin to him about people ringing up and does he get a lot of em. he said dat they can get annoying because he price checks all d written prices and makes his laptops cheaper then the rest, then people ring him and say they saw such and such a laptop for x amount, can he beet it. if he says yeah, the person goes off and rings the other crowd saying harvey will do it for this much, they ring him back then saying that powercity or briscoe is doin it for this till eventually its no worth his while. like i know personally i wouldnt entertain someone looking to get €150 - €200 off a €600 laptop, when theres only €20 or €30 profit on it at the full price.

If there's only €20 or €30 profit to be made at it's full price, then how come shops will knock off over €100 without complaining?

If DID can sell a laptop for €500, then I don't see why Harvey can't sell the same one for the same price.

Blue_Wolf

There's only a certain amount that they can knock off, it varies from sales consultant. For example. On a tv that's priced at 500euro the owner says no less than 450euro. If you get the full 500euro than the 50euro is your commission. So the sales person has 50euro to play around with. Jim may give 40euro off where as Bill only 30euro as they want to make some commission for themselves. It's not worth them giving it for 450 as they don't get commission for the sale.

That's how it was working 3 years ago, it may have changed now.

Blue_Wolf

Blue_Wolf wrote: »

There's only a certain amount that they can knock off, it varies from sales consultant. For example. On a tv that's priced at 500euro the owner says no less than 450euro. If you get the full 500euro than the 50euro is your commission. So the sales person has 50euro to play around with. Jim may give 40euro off where as Bill only 30euro as they want to make some commission for themselves. It's not worth them giving it for 450 as they don't get commission for the sale.

That's how it was working 3 years ago, it may have changed now.

Surely it's better to sell a TV and make no commission than not sell a TV at all?

jackofalltrades

Deleted User wrote:

If DID can sell a laptop for €500, then I don't see why Harvey can't sell the same one for the same price.

Beacuse they have different cost structures/bought the laptops at different base prices.

Deleted User wrote:

If there's only €20 or €30 profit to be made at it's full price, then how come shops will knock off over €100 without complaining?

There's very little money if any to be made on low end laptops a lot of them are actually sold for a loss.

Deleted User wrote:

Surely it's better to sell a TV and make no commission than not sell a TV at all?

:eek: How is it better?

jackofalltrades

jackofalltrades wrote: »

:eek: How is it better?

Because although you may not be making any money off the sale directly into your own pocket as a sales assistant, you're still making a sale which will look good to management and overall be better for you in the long term.


At the end of the day, isn't it better to lose €50 than €500.

drog5920

i see D.I.D had their truck in the drogheda park today saying theyd bbeet harvey anfd currys, went into harveys, they have dids website up on their computers showin the price theyre selling em at, what dya know harvey is cheaper by at least 20 on all of em. the guy told me how their commis works too, its a percentage of sales rather the profit so if thats the case tnhen the salesman can drop price regardless of profit. but must say dids truck is great advertisement for harvey and currys.. very surprised they dont target powercity, theyre cheaper then anywhere, only reason i shop with harvey is the lads know wat theyre talkin bout rather then jst vreading from a page

Also seen DID's truck today, too. I'm sure it wouldn't take any more than just approaching a DID salesperson and telling them Harveys are doing x product cheaper, and I'm sure they'd match it.

jackofalltrades

Deleted User wrote:

Because although you may not be making any money off the sale directly into your own pocket as a sales assistant, you're still making a sale which will look good to management and overall be better for you in the long term.

Usually no comission on a sale means no margin for the company. Selling at zero comission unless there is some other benefit is demoralising and a waste of your time.

If the commission is going to go straight into the pocket of your sales assistant to encourage him to sell more, then the company wouldn't see it anyway.

If a €500 tv leaves a sales assistant with 10% commision (€50) then the company can obviously afford to sell it for less as the most they'll generate from the sale is €450, regardless of whether or not the sales assistant pockets anything.

rameire

Deleted User wrote: »

If the commission is going to go straight into the pocket of your sales assistant to encourage him to sell more, then the company wouldn't see it anyway.

If a €500 tv leaves a sales assistant with 10% commision (€50) then the company can obviously afford to sell it for less as the most they'll generate from the sale is €450, regardless of whether or not the sales assistant pockets anything.

i think youll really find that the commission is probably based on teh profit margin of the product and not the whole price of the product so for your example the comission would be €5

drog5920

my helpfull mate in harveys told me theyre commision used to be 5% of the profit they made. its now 0.0075% of their sales which is what 7.50 for evry grand. he also said they have no issues beeting prices that they have been encouraged to basically gain marketshare. i dont know how people can say theyre rip off merchants been honest, like their mark price is cheaper then did's and they encourage ya to haggle. i dont like dids approach with their truck though

10-10-20

Look at the pricing of their Monster cables - that put me off any purchase in there...

Either Harvey Normen think that we are all mugs (trying to sell us "0% carbon cables" for €80) or they were getting rode by Monster, but have a feeling that the former is more true...

Kensington

10-10-20 wrote: »

Look at the pricing of their Monster cables - that put me off any purchase in there...

Either Harvey Normen think that we are all mugs (trying to sell us "0% carbon cables" for €80) or they were getting rode by Monster, but have a feeling that the former is more true...

It's actually the latter. Take a look at the prices of their cables on amazon. As much as $120 in some cases. There's been many articles, the world over, criticising monster cables as nothing more than a rip off with completely untrue marketing claims.

Nody

Kensington wrote: »

It's actually the latter. Take a look at the prices of their cables on amazon. As much as $120 in some cases. There's been many articles, the world over, criticising monster cables as nothing more than a rip off with completely untrue marketing claims.

But with monster cables I don't have to shake out the stuck bits every month to clear the sound!