N11 Cycle Lane

AstraMonti

I have just moved to a different house and 95% of my commute has the N11 cycle lane in it. Its really awful, with leaves, water, people, buses, potholes, bus stops with these orizontal things that are slippery like hell etc etc..

Am I bound by law to keep on it or i can be on the road as well?

short circuit

AstraMonti wrote: »

I have just moved to a different house and 95% of my commute has the N11 cycle lane in it. Its really awful, with leaves, water, people, buses, potholes, bus stops with these orizontal things that are slippery like hell etc etc..

Am I bound by law to keep on it or i can be on the road as well?

Bound by the law .... Yes
Should you keep on it .... No if its unsafe. There is a buslane all the way through too ... .. and most bus drivers won't mind if you step to the side and let them go ahead if stopped at traffic lights.

zzzzzzzz

AstraMonti wrote: »

I have just moved to a different house and 95% of my commute has the N11 cycle lane in it. Its really awful, with leaves, water, people, buses, potholes, bus stops with these orizontal things that are slippery like hell etc etc..

Am I bound by law to keep on it or i can be on the road as well?

According to the signage on some of the N11 cyclists can use the bus lane. At least, that's what I make of them.

AstraMonti

If i am stopped by the gardai (which i doubt), can i give as an excuse that the cycle lane is dangerous?

DirkVoodoo

Ah cool, might see ya on it now.

Yes its awful and yes you should avoid any parts that make you feel unsafe. I generally skip the northbound section opposite the galloping green, as the cycle lane was cut off when they moved the bus shelter, so you have to go on the footpath around it to get back to the cycle lane (kerb is too high to hop onto bus lane).

Then I move into the bus lane at the sliproad leading up to stillorgan, it makes you more visible to drivers who take that sliproad very fast (I've been cut off many times in heavy traffic) and lets you safely get through the junction down the road.

Then, as soon as you get to the Esso, go down the bus lane the whole way until you reach Foster's ave. The cycle "path" here is undulating, off-camber in places and often blocked by cars/vans. You also are about 4 feet away from driveways which are all blind, so unless you like playing russian roulette with people coming out of their driveways and not seeing you, bus lane is much safer. You also skip the 2 bus stops which are always packed and people always wander out in front of you.

Heading home, southbound, the worst part is after white's cross. Just take the bus lane the whole way down and if you go as far as Foxrock church, watch out for the traffic turning down Kill ave, they take it very fast and don't realise that they are meant to yield to you as they cross the cycle path.

Chips Lovell

AstraMonti wrote: »

Its really awful, with leaves, water, people, buses, potholes, bus stops with these orizontal things that are slippery like hell etc etc..

Agreed. One of the worst in Dublin.

AstraMonti wrote: »

Am I bound by law to keep on it or i can be on the road as well?

Yes, but only if it's a cycle track as defined by law, which means the proper marking on the road and demarcation by the proper signs, (blue disc with a bike in it, signalling beginning and end). Signs like those with a bike and a pedestrian on them appear to have no standing in law.

You should note that the minister announced that he was abolishing mandatory use of cycle lanes, but I'm not sure if he's amended the law just yet.

aidan.offbeat wrote: »

According to the signage on some of the N11 cyclists can use the bus lane. At least, that's what I make of them.

My understanding of it too.

AstraMonti wrote: »

If i am stopped by the gardai (which i doubt), can i give as an excuse that the cycle lane is dangerous?

I'd find it hard to imagine that the Guards would do you for an offence that is set to be abolished.

AstraMonti

Great info as always guys thanks!

Conor20

el tonto wrote: »

I'd find it hard to imagine that the Guards would do you for an offence that is set to be abolished.

Can you give more details on this? I assume you're refering to the law that obliges cyclists to use cycle tracks when they are provided?

Conor.

Chips Lovell

Conor20 wrote: »

Can you give more details on this? I assume you're refering to the law that obliges cyclists to use cycle tracks when they are provided?

Conor.

Twas announced in the new National Cycle Policy Framework (pdf).

15.4 Mandatory Use Regulation
We will revoke the Statutory Instrument that requires cyclists
to use cycle tracks where they are provided - Road Traffic
(Traffic and Parking) Amendment Regulations, S.I. No. 274 (1998).
This regulation is unsatisfactory for a number of reasons:
(i) it is clear that the cycling infrastructure that has been constructed
to date is often of a poor standard and is poorly maintained, and
cyclists are required to use it;
(ii) it can force cyclists to be on cycle tracks and (when they are planning
on continuing straight ahead) to be on the inside of left-turning
vehicles, including Heavy Goods Vehicles;
(iii) if a group of cyclists (on a weekend cycle for example) is using a road
with an off-road cycle-track alongside it, then they are required to use
it – which is not practicable.

victorcarrera

AstraMonti wrote: »

N11 cycle lane . Its really awful, with leaves, water, people, buses, potholes, etc etc..

Passed that way recently. It is in a terrible state and its not the only one.
Its not surprising really because we have no effective road maintenance program here as they do in other european countries. Some cycle lanes here look like they have never been swept. There are no controls to prevent construction/agricultural traffic bringing mud and gravel on to public roads which invariably gravitates on to cycle lanes. No effective pothole repair. Hedges and tree branches growing onto cycle lanes. And when it wasnt done during the boom years it won't be done now.

petethedrummer

There's no timetable for any of the items in the cycling framework. So it might be a while before that law is abolished.

Most bus lanes have a bicycle symbol on them. So you should be fine to use it.

eggie

AstraMonti wrote: »

If i am stopped by the gardai (which i doubt), can i give as an excuse that the cycle lane is dangerous?

Tell them to feck off and go catch some drug dealers, earn their money properly.

Seaswimmer

I would suggest if using the n11 to come from Bray/shankill/cabinteely area into town that you turn right at cornelscourt. Between Cabinteely and town on Clonkeen road/Deansgrange road/Rock Road/Merrrion road all the cylcle lanes are on road and there are also bus lanes you can use.

DirkVoodoo

Seaswimmer wrote: »

I would suggest if using the n11 to come from Bray/shankill/cabinteely area into town that you turn right at cornelscourt. Between Cabinteely and town on Clonkeen road/Deansgrange road/Rock Road/Merrrion road all the cylcle lanes are on road and there are also bus lanes you can use.

I think taking the N11 bus lane is safer. I have never been a fan of the rock road, lots of 2-lane to 1-lane transitions pretty much from deansgrange into town.

Raam

may have been said... I think there is a point on the N11 where the shared use bus lane becomes a bus lane only. I.e. bikes not allowed.

The rock road isn't too bad. I've done it a few times in the morning. It is fast though.

StudentC

I've just moved also, but now I no longer have to battle the N11.

I'd agree with most of Dirk Voodoo's points about different sections, but depending how far south you are going, the bits around Cornelscourt and Cabinteeley are quite good.

I wouldn't necessarily bother with Deansgrange and the Rock Road - lots of sections of fairly crappy roa surface, and lots of disappearing and reappearing bike lanes / bus lanes / car lanes.

monument

Raam wrote: »

may have been said... I think there is a point on the N11 where the shared use bus lane becomes a bus lane only. I.e. bikes not allowed.

I think the only bus-only sign that is actually backed by legislation is the contraflow sign.

As with these signs in this link, somebody has just come along an painted out the bicycles in a block of blue, a different shade to the main blue on the signs... http://www.flickr.com/photos/cianginty/3098233532/in/pool-dublincyclelanes/

Chips Lovell

eggie wrote: »

Tell them to feck off and go catch some drug dealers, earn their money properly.

Yes, that approach usually goes down very well with the Guards.

brayblue24

OP is right though. That place is a disgrace

Blowfish

I used to do that route to college and it could be a complete nightmare at times.

My personal favourite bit was the Garda checkpoint they had there in the mornings, where they pulled people over for driving in the bus lane. Of course to do this they would park their Garda jeep right in the middle of the cycle lane, leaving the bus lane as the only place cyclists could actually go...

Húrin

Don't worry Astra the Gardai won't bother you if you're cycling sensibly.

tibor

StudentC wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily bother with Deansgrange and the Rock Road - lots of sections of fairly crappy roa surface, and lots of disappearing and reappearing bike lanes / bus lanes / car lanes.

Do the Deansgrange/Rock Road thing when cycling to work.
Find it much quieter, relaxing and enjoyable than the N11 - it's also about 1.5km shorter to O'Connell Bridge, and generally less windy.

There is a section just before after Deansgrange where the road surface is in bits at the edges heading towards town, but it's usually quiet enough to take a central position in the lane.

brayblue24

Húrin wrote: »

Don't worry Astra the Gardai won't bother you if you're cycling sensibly.

TBH while Gardai might appear disinterested in those not bothering to use cycle tracks actually they will be more concerned with the more obvious transgressions. The only ones that might notice poor cycling habits are those that cycle in their spare time-like me!! And as mentioned previously I'm in complete agreement, that track is a mess. For me the worst part is southbound between White's Cross and Foxrock Church (which no doubt has a more religious proper name). In my humble opinion I also agree with previous posters, the Rock Road is a better bet with a much newer, smoother surface.

Personally, I use cycle tracks where I can, but if I know them to be dangerous I ignore them. If you're stopped point out the surface-any reasonable (and there are some believe it or not) guard should see your point.

Anyhoo, if you think the N11 is bad try either way on Boghall Road in Bray-now there's an experience.

Raam

brayblue24 wrote: »

The only ones that might notice poor cycling habits are those that cycle in their spare time-like me

Of the cyclists who do get stopped, what would be the most common infractions?

short circuit

Raam wrote: »

Of the cyclists who do get stopped, what would be the most common infractions?

Fixies with no brakes ...

or using gooey chocolate cake between front fork and tyre as brakes ... tarmac and rubber to nothing to add to the taste of the cake.

brayblue24

Raam wrote: »

Of the cyclists who do get stopped, what would be the most common infractions?

Red traffic lights/ no lights after dark/ cycling in pedestrian areas etc. That's just me though.

Conor20

el tonto wrote: »

Twas announced in the new National Cycle Policy Framework (pdf).

Thanks El Tonto. That's great to see. They're spot on with their reasons too. I notice there's no solid timeline for this to be signed into law in the framework. I fired off e mails to Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent and some other TDs about it. Hopefully, this'll spur them to push it through. I emphesised that it would make many cyclists happy to see it go through sooner rather than later.

Conor.

petethedrummer

Conor20 wrote: »

Thanks El Tonto. That's great to see. They're spot on with their reasons too. I notice there's no solid timeline for this to be signed into law in the framework. I fired off e mails to Eamon Ryan, Trevor Sargent and some other TDs about it. Hopefully, this'll spur them to push it through. I emphesised that it would make many cyclists happy to see it go through sooner rather than later.

Yeah there's no timetable and I imagine money for any road upgrades will dry up. That's why there should be a big push to get this law revoked, it would be one positive step for very little money.

I was at the last DCC meeting, they were gonna debate this framework document but decided it was so good there was no point picking holes in it. Just getting the commitment from the governemnt to see through the proposed changes will be the big obstacle.

Would you mind posting your emails in this thread? - http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055504073&highlight=political+action+thread

Others can then use yours as a template and send their own email. Be sure to remove your email address when you post, so you don't get any unwanted spam.

StudentC

brayblue24 wrote: »

Anyhoo, if you think the N11 is bad try either way on Boghall Road in Bray-now there's an experience.

Ah yeah, gotta love the Boghall Road lampost-lane.

Although the Killarney road one is pretty bad too.

DirkVoodoo

brayblue24 wrote: »

For me the worst part is southbound between White's Cross and Foxrock Church (which no doubt has a more religious proper name)

Yeah, it's in absolute shreds especially where the McInerny houses were being built and there is basically a trench that you have to bunnyhop over. Don't even get me started about the transition from path to road just by the church, nearly got flattened by a range rover (who had the audacity to beep at me). Much safer just hopping into the bus lane, not obstructing traffic (it's quite a wide lane) and then as you pass the bus stop near the church, occupy the entire lane so the cars can see you are there.

markpb

Not entirely related to this thread but did anything ever come of the DCC Cycling Officer's post that was created last year?

rottenhat

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah, it's in absolute shreds especially where the McInerny houses were being built and there is basically a trench that you have to bunnyhop over. Don't even get me started about the transition from path to road just by the church, nearly got flattened by a range rover (who had the audacity to beep at me). Much safer just hopping into the bus lane, not obstructing traffic (it's quite a wide lane) and then as you pass the bus stop near the church, occupy the entire lane so the cars can see you are there.

yep, when I get to the traffic lights at Galloping Green I take a look over my shoulder to see if there are any buses coming up from behind. If there are, I'll take the bike lane until they pass, if not I'll take the bus lane and stay out in the road as the turn lane diverges at Foxrock church. those junctions where the a bike lane on the path dumps you into traffic are ridiculously dangerous, even the one by Cabinteely which has my all time favourite road sign - "drivers beware of weaving cyclists".

Conor20

Wow, I got a very quick response from Ciaran Cuffe TD, the Green spokeperson for Law Reform and Transport:


Thanks for your email Conor,

I would envisage cycling legislation - and perhaps a Scandinavian style 'hierarchy of care' for road users - primarily being dealt with in the Govt's Sustainable Travel and Transport Bill. I understand 2010 is earmarked for this bill.

On the specific repeal of the SI below, I will put this to the Minister and revert to you

Best regards,

Ciarán

Ciarán Cuffe TD
Dún Laoghaire Green Party

Dáil Office
Green Party Spokesperson for
Justice, Equality & Law Reform,
Foreign Affairs and Transport
Dáil Éireann
Kildare Street
Dublin 2
W: 6183082
F: 6184341

http://www.ciarancuffe.com
http://cuffestreet.blogspot.com

petethedrummer

markpb wrote: »

Not entirely related to this thread but did anything ever come of the DCC Cycling Officer's post that was created last year?

His name is Ciaran Fallon. Google his name and you might get some info.

Chips Lovell

petethedrummer wrote: »

His name is Ciaran Fallon. Google his name and you might get some info.

I suppose he had to do something during his ban.

brayblue24

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah, it's in absolute shreds especially where the McInerny houses were being built and there is basically a trench that you have to bunnyhop over. Don't even get me started about the transition from path to road just by the church, nearly got flattened by a range rover (who had the audacity to beep at me). Much safer just hopping into the bus lane, not obstructing traffic (it's quite a wide lane) and then as you pass the bus stop near the church, occupy the entire lane so the cars can see you are there.

That's more or less the way I do it myself too. I find longevity more appealing.

paranoid

I use this daily between Galloping Green and Donnybrook. I would find it hard to believe that anyone involved in the design(:rolleyes:), specification, construction or maintenance(:eek:) has ever ridden a bike. It really is only there to keep cyclists out of the way.

About a year ago I was stopped by the cops for being in the buslane in the part between Merrion Ave and The Rise, which is actively dangerous and therefore to be avoided. After 5 minutes of all three of them talking to me, while multiple motorbikes and at least a couple of cars sailed down the buslane, they let me go and I made the mistake of suggesting that they might stop some real offenders - didn't go down well .

They finally let me go so I didn't have to ask about the meaning of the bike symbol in the buslane sign, or the status of the 'stunt bike' sign for the supposed cycle lane.

brayblue24

paranoid wrote: »

they let me go and I made the mistake of suggesting that they might stop some real offenders - didn't go down well .

Yeah, that one always works;) although I know it's hard to keep schtum when the world and its brother is doing exactly the same as you.

paranoid

but ,based on the signs, I was entitled to be there, and they were not.
I felt it wise not to point this out to the cops unless they tried to charge me.

The other annoying thing was that I would have gone back onto the cycle lane if their patrol car wasn't in the way.

brayblue24

paranoid wrote: »

The other annoying thing was that I would have gone back onto the cycle lane if their patrol car wasn't in the way.

Methinks you have a point!

paranoid

brayblue24 wrote: »

Yeah, that one always works;) although I know it's hard to keep schtum when the world and its brother is doing exactly the same as you.

It wasn't you who stopped me, was it?

What is your (unofficial) view on the status of the signage?

brayblue24

paranoid wrote: »

It wasn't you who stopped me, was it?

What is your (unofficial) view on the status of the signage?

No not me. I am sympathetic towards cyclists:).Not familiar with the signage where you mean but if it's up to the usual standard then....

gerbyrne

Anyone had any bad experiences on the rumble strips in the cycle lanes at Loughlinstown?

blorg

gerbyrne wrote: »

Anyone had any bad experiences on the rumble strips in the cycle lanes at Loughlinstown?

I avoid them. Absolutely ridiculous.

brayblue24

+1

Add to that the 2" drop from path to road and the endless stream of cars illegally coming onto the N11 from Commons Road it's one to avoid alright

gerbyrne

Thats another hazard I did not think of , but the strips themselves seem very excessive