Parents respecting their childrens decision

Denerick

I'm guessing the Christianity forum contains the lions share of boards.ie's practising Christians so this is obviously the best place to put this question.

What, do you, as Catholics or Protestants, do if your mid teen child tells you that they either don't believe, or believe that going to church and being 'active' in an organised religion is not for them?

I just remember myself harking back to my younger days when I started to come round to the idea that I didn't believe any of the things I had been taught in school (Thats another beef of mine for another day though) or told by my parents. I think it was the realisation that after I read the bible when I was about 14, and that neither my parents or any in my direct family had ever considered reading it, that I began to drift away from the church. I remember telling my mother how I felt, but her attitude was basically, 'cop yourself on'. So for about two years I grumpily went off to mass, tail between my legs. I'd 'mitch' it any and every possibility.

I'm 20 now and long given up the pretence. But I want to know what people here would say to their children if they told you they weren't believers; Would force/persuade them to go to mass/church anyway (And thus in my case, replace optimistic curiosity and cynicism with downright hatred of anything got to do with a Church) or allow them to make their own minds up and stay at home?

I'm not a contributer to the atheist/agnostic forum here (They take the 'internet warz' thing a little seriously sometimes) but I do consider myself a reluctant agnostic. I would like to believe in it all but I just can't.

Phototoxin

I think I am in the same mindset as you are. I'm not sure about the whole thing. Though I am trying to explore different methods. But yeah if my kid said that he didn't like church/meeting/mass/virgin sacrifice/whatever I would attempt some dialogue and to find out why. I would encourage questioning and learning and try to respect their decision and try to remember how I felt at their age.

philologos

OP: If you parents are going to advocate belief, they should at least know what they are believing in first.

If that did happen I would have to respect my potential childrens autonomy. However, I would probably make an attempt to explain it to them first or give them the option of reading any books I had on Christian apologetics that could clear it up if they wanted. It would not stop me practising my own faith or sharing it with any other children I had or with friends.

I am also the same age as you

preilly79

I would be of the opinion that If my child was able to to come to that conclusion so early in life that I would have immense pride in their ability to take two opposing arguments, weigh them up and come to the decision based on their own investigations, and not what they have been led to believe.

philologos

preilly79: It could also be a very rash decision. I don't think at any stage less than your late teenage years can you really assess Christianity for what it is from the Bible. I would argue that there is a difference between the faith of a child and the faith of an adult. That's why I think it's absurd when people tell me they lost faith at 7.

preilly79

That's very true. Any decision made without due consideration for both sides, and made in haste, could be considered a rash decision. But for some people the issue is extremely clear-cut.

procure11

Jakkass wrote: »

preilly79: It could also be a very rash decision. I don't think at any stage less than your late teenage years can you really assess Christianity for what it is from the Bible. I would argue that there is a difference between the faith of a child and the faith of an adult. That's why I think it's absurd when people tell me they lost faith at 7.

Absloutely true

Denerick

I think a lot of it is got to do with our education system. Our system is simply not based on fostering independent thinking. We are taught how things happen or what causes things to happen; we are rarely asked to question 'why' things happen.

For example, if a teacher told a 12 year old that Hitler invaded Poland in 1939 he would tell him that Hitler was in the process of creating a greater German nation and had aspirations of European hedgemony (Or more likely, be told that Hitler wanted world domination to make it easier to understand ) He would be told that the Germans used a military tactic called 'Blitzkrieg' and detail how the aeroplanes, tanks and infantry would invade in their appropriate waves. He would probably mention the deficiencies in the Polish military and the failure of the British and French to allow things to get this far in the first place.

He would very unlikely ask the student to question 'why' all these things happened, 'why' the Germans supported Hitler, 'why' the Allies adopted appeasement. There would be no real interregotation and why's, simply a rundown of what happened from start to finish. Like its just one indisputable story.

The same happens in our primary schools with the teaching of the Catholic faith; 90% of students suck it all in without thinking about at all at any stage of their life. (Well the figures are bigger now obviously since atheism has become 'cool' amongst certain sections of society. There are also the people with half baked ideas about 'spirituality' which involve very little thinking at all) We are told everything, like it is one indisputable truth.

I have to admit I felt very disconsolate when I began to question things, and when little things started to unravel I gradually became more and more disillusioned. At one stage I was genuinely frightened of dying in my sleep in case I went straight to hell for not getting my last rites.

I think our religious education needs a radical reformation (:p) For one thing, the church must end its monopoly over the spiritual minds of the young. Religious education of all faiths should take place and most importantly people should be told that things certainly are not 'indisputable'.

/stream of consciousness.

philologos

Dennerick: I agree all faiths should be taught in schools. However in faith schools they have every right to teach their ethos also. Also it is a legal right for parents to be able to educate their children in their faith. I support this right. How can you decide if you do not know what religion is about in the first place?

Mickeroo

Jakkass wrote: »

preilly79: It could also be a very rash decision. I don't think at any stage less than your late teenage years can you really assess Christianity for what it is from the Bible. I would argue that there is a difference between the faith of a child and the faith of an adult. That's why I think it's absurd when people tell me they lost faith at 7.

I'd agree with you there. I stopped going to mass when i was 18 but I must have been maybe 23/24 before i became a bone fide atheist. There's no way people in a christian family lose faith when they're 7 you dont question things at that age, God and grandad are in heaven,the devil is in hell, santa will be here at christmas, thats just the way things are and no-one could convince me otherwise!

Denerick

Jakkass wrote: »

Dennerick: I agree all faiths should be taught in schools. However in faith schools they have every right to teach their ethos also. Also it is a legal right for parents to be able to educate their children in their faith. I support this right. How can you decide if you do not know what religion is about in the first place?

Faith schools have a right to teach their own ethos, but not as 'the one true faith'. Its basically saying (And I went to a so called 'faith school', religious in ethos but pretty secular in practise) that 'yeah, there are other religions and all that and there are even people who don't believe in anything at all, heretics and gays and all the rest, but you are Catholic because you are born into a catholic family and you go to a catholic school'.

I also support the legal right for parents to bring their children up in their faith, but on a personal, moral ground I find it objectionable. In an ideal world I would have copies of all the major religious texts lying in my house and encourage my children to read (the childrens editions) of these texts.

Often times the parents know very little about the faith. I can only really go on my own experience here but it is kind of shocking how ignorant my mother and father still are about some of the central tenets of the faith, yet insist they are good catholics. My father actually said to me he found transubstantiation a load of nonsense...

wolfsbane

Denerick wrote: »

What, do you, as Catholics or Protestants, do if your mid teen child tells you that they either don't believe, or believe that going to church and being 'active' in an organised religion is not for them?

If they are still non-adults, I would insist they accompany me to church as part of their process of education. I would not expect them to pretend to believe - just that they not be disruptive in the meeting. I would welcome any debate they have with me on the material they learn in church.

Of course, I would pray for their conversion, instruct them about God and try my best to show what true Chistianity is. I would insist on basic Christian moral behaviour - no drunkeness, for example. But they would be free to hold and declare their own beliefs.

When they became adults, I would no longer require them to be instructed in the faith, either at home or church - but would be glad if they chose to. As adults at home, I would still expect the basic Christian standards to be kept.

philologos

Denerick wrote: »

Faith schools have a right to teach their own ethos, but not as 'the one true faith'. Its basically saying (And I went to a so called 'faith school', religious in ethos but pretty secular in practise) that 'yeah, there are other religions and all that and there are even people who don't believe in anything at all, heretics and gays and all the rest, but you are Catholic because you are born into a catholic family and you go to a catholic school'.

Actually, they do legally have the right to teach that Jesus is the way, Christianity is the truth. That's what an ethos is. Just because your faith school was fairly secular (mine had a COI ethos but it was fairly liberal in religious teaching) doesn't mean that they cannot teach Christianity as the truth in any respect.

Denerick wrote: »

I also support the legal right for parents to bring their children up in their faith, but on a personal, moral ground I find it objectionable. In an ideal world I would have copies of all the major religious texts lying in my house and encourage my children to read (the childrens editions) of these texts.

Why is it objectionable? Parents should have full autonomy in the teaching of moral and religious education surely?

Denerick wrote: »

Often times the parents know very little about the faith. I can only really go on my own experience here but it is kind of shocking how ignorant my mother and father still are about some of the central tenets of the faith, yet insist they are good catholics. My father actually said to me he found transubstantiation a load of nonsense.../quote]

I find transubstantiation to be a false teaching too. However, this is advocated by my denomination. I do believe that there is spiritual value in taking communion however as a means of remembering the passion of the Christ.

Just because your parents were ignorant about Catholicism doesn't mean that parents in general don't have this right though. I do think people should assess what they believe before they try to pass it onto their children however.