Attendances

TarfHead

Before that claim to be the best-attending fans is trotted out again, the following is on the Irish Times website today ..

Europe’s best supported teams (league games as at May 15th, 2009)

Stade Francais: 26,365
Tolouse: 21,372
Munster: 17,929
Leicester: 17,358
Harlequins: 15,249
Leinster: 14,728
Gloucester: 14,215

danthefan

Leinster were the best supported team in Ireland for a few years, that is a simple fact. I doubt anyone ever claimed Leinster were the best supported team in Europe.

justsomebloke

As far as I know they only ever claimed to be the biggest Magners League based Team which they were untill surpassed by Munster this year

Paulw

Is that for the biggest attendance for a single season game?

I think the HK semi-final with Munster-Leinster will dwarf those numbers.

justsomebloke

Paulw wrote: »

Is that for the biggest attendance for a single season game?

I think the HK semi-final with Munster-Leinster will dwarf those numbers.

no it is average season gate attendance and both Leinster and Munster are hampered by stadium capicity with Munster having to use Musgrave for some of their games and Leinster currently not having the use of Lansdowne road for big games

LaMer

Leinster were consistently the best supported team in the Magners league a season or two ago, and I'm sure a few years ago. Munster support has only grown since their recent heineken successes (last 6 or 7 years), even O'Gara says that when he started out they were really poorly reported, and the best fans in the world (tm) was a myth...

Paulw

Just goes to show that for the size of the country and area covered, the Irish teams are very well supported.

Crash

Average attendance numbers.

Tefral

Paulw wrote: »

Just goes to show that for the size of the country and area covered, the Irish teams are very well supported.

Exactly and regardless of where your from its great to see. Certainly punching above our weight in terms of numbers relative to the size of the country.

Its true about the Munster thing though, i remember going to a couple of games when i was in my early teens and there were hardly anyone there. Its great to see now though!

Tim Robbins

TarfHead wrote: »

Before that claim to be the best-attending fans is trotted out again, the following is on the Irish Times website today ..

Europe’s best supported teams (league games as at May 15th, 2009)

Stade Francais: 26,365
Tolouse: 21,372
Munster: 17,929
Leicester: 17,358
Harlequins: 15,249
Leinster: 14,728
Gloucester: 14,215

Interesting. the previous capacity for TP I think was about 12,500. For Magners game they'd get about 7K.

Now with an increase capacity, they are actually getting more than what the previous capacity of TP was. Something similar happend with Leinster and Donnybrook.

If you build it, they will come!

anonymous_joe

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Interesting. the previous capacity for TP I think was about 12,500. For Magners game they'd get about 7K.

Now with an increase capacity, they are actually getting more than what the previous capacity of TP was.

If you build it, they will come!

New stadiums always get an increase in attendance.

There's no doubt that the game's in fairly rude health in this country (outside of Connact...) because Ulster have decent attendances too, despite being at a fairly low ebb by their own standards.

thehighground

LaMer wrote: »

Leinster were consistently the best supported team in the Magners league a season or two ago, and I'm sure a few years ago. Munster support has only grown since their recent heineken successes (last 6 or 7 years), even O'Gara says that when he started out they were really poorly reported, and the best fans in the world (tm) was a myth...

In fairness, O'Gara is known for his honesty, so I don't think you need say 'even'.

Donnybrook wouldn't have had a huge capacity btw (about 10K - I don't know) so its really only since the move to the RDS that Leinster support would have shot up.

I think Ulster probably would have been the best supported team in the Magners prior to the increase capacities of both Munster & Leinster. And the Last Stand between Leinster & Ulster would have certainly inflated the numbers that year.

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

In fairness, O'Gara is known for his honesty, so I don't think you need say 'even'.

Donnybrook wouldn't have had a huge capacity btw (about 10K - I don't know) so its really only since the move to the RDS that Leinster support would have shot up.

I think Ulster probably would have been the best supported team in the Magners prior to the increase capacities of both Munster & Leinster. And the Last Stand between Leinster & Ulster would have certainly inflated the numbers that year.

Less than 10 I think.

We were averaging 5k or so in 05/06 and now we're almost triple that.

Podge_irl

thehighground wrote: »

I think Ulster probably would have been the best supported team in the Magners prior to the increase capacities of both Munster & Leinster. And the Last Stand between Leinster & Ulster would have certainly inflated the numbers that year.

Pretty sure Ulster were the best supported team for several years in a row til Leinster moved to the RDS (and had the Last Stand) which saw them move ahead for 2/3 years. Munster have now moved ahead with the new Thomond. Bigger stadia always tend to attract more people, especially if they have better facilities etc. Donnybrook wasn't very conducive to bringing a family to games whereas the RDS is grand for that for example.

How the hell are Harlequins in there,the stoop is tiny.

12,000 capacity or something.

Podge_irl

Their average attendance has gone up ****loads from the game against Stade in Twickenham.

Otacon

Joe Sweet Mechanic wrote: »

How the hell are Harlequins in there,the stoop is tiny.

12,000 capacity or something.

Is it just average home attendances?

Oafley Jones

Podge_irl wrote: »

Pretty sure Ulster were the best supported team for several years in a row til Leinster moved to the RDS (and had the Last Stand) which saw them move ahead for 2/3 years. Munster have now moved ahead with the new Thomond. Bigger stadia always tend to attract more people, especially if they have better facilities etc. Donnybrook wasn't very conducive to bringing a family to games whereas the RDS is grand for that for example.

Don't forget that Munster play a good few games in Musgrave Park which has a capacity of 7k.

Podge_irl

Podge_irl wrote: »

Their average attendance has gone up ****loads from the game against Stade in Twickenham.

It only counts league games.

Podge_irl

Joe Sweet Mechanic wrote: »

It only counts league games.

Hmmmm, didn't notice that. Then I have no idea, as you say the Stoop only holds 12000 or so.

dave13

They had a big game against Leicester in the premiership over christmas in Twickers with attendance of 50000. that must have helped.Cant remember if they moved any others

[Jackass]

TarfHead wrote: »

Before that claim to be the best-attending fans is trotted out again, the following is on the Irish Times website today ..

Europe’s best supported teams (league games as at May 15th, 2009)

Stade Francais: 26,365
Tolouse: 21,372
Munster: 17,929
Leicester: 17,358
Harlequins: 15,249
Leinster: 14,728
Gloucester: 14,215

Interesting, Leinster numbers down a bit this year. BUT in fairness, I had a feeling this would happen after the last 2 home games of the season in the ML were VERY poorly attended (what with the campaign being over and all) so I did a quick few sums and Leinsters average attendence excluding the last 2 Magners League games was 16,352 which is pretty respectable for an 18,500 capacity ground. 88% capacity for all games on average and 5th highest in Europe. Just a shame the crowds let us down for the last 2 games when the league was lost which reduced our numbers significantly.

But Lansdowne road will make a big difference seeing as Harlequins have a 50,000 home game at Twickenham v Leicester boosting their numbers, Leicester have 2 or 3 big games in Walkers stadium to boost their numbers, and Stade had a 65,000 or so home game v Quinns at some stage this season...so Leinster are a bit limited at present!

With everything built I would sat Leisnter and Munster will be consistantly in the top 3 or 4 best supported teams in Europe.

justsomebloke

anonymous_joe wrote: »

We were averaging 5k or so in 05/06 and now we're almost triple that.

ye I remember when donnybrook would only get near full capacity for the munster game and that was before they even had the stand put in place and the terrace was on 3 sides of the pitch, for most of the time it was deserted. ah they were the days.

Truthfully ML and HC have really helped bring rugby to the for front of Irish sport, as it has finally given sports fans the chance to see top level professional sport week in week out, where as The highlight of the GAA season is a cup were your county could be knocked out after 1 - 2 games, that and there is no international aspect to GAA.

I know in another thread people were wondering why Leinster didn't build their own stadium but to be truthful with the explosion in the amount of people supporting provincial Rugby and with the figures only starting to level off now, the requirements required for a stadium now may be completely insufficient in 5 years time and could limit the growth in the sport.

But I have to say it has been great to see the explosion in support for all teh provinces over the last number of years

anonymous_joe

Joe the Santa wrote: »

ye I remember when donnybrook would only get near full capacity for the munster game and that was before they even had the stand put in place and the terrace was on 3 sides of the pitch, for most of the time it was deserted. ah they were the days.

Truthfully ML and HC have really helped bring rugby to the for front of Irish sport, as it has finally given sports fans the chance to see top level professional sport week in week out, where as The highlight of the GAA season is a cup were your county could be knocked out after 1 - 2 games, that and there is no international aspect to GAA.

I know in another thread people were wondering why Leinster didn't build their own stadium but to be truthful with the explosion in the amount of people supporting provincial Rugby and with the figures only starting to level off now, the requirements required for a stadium now may be completely insufficient in 5 years time and could limit the growth in the sport.

But I have to say it has been great to see the explosion in support for all teh provinces over the last number of years

I remember when an SCT game would fill Donnybrook more than a Leinster game.

Basically, Ireland's overachieving in rugby terms over the last decade. The 90s was underachievement. There will be a middle ground soon, and attendances will probably drop a little. I think Thomond Park might be a teensy bit too big, but it's still a small enough stadium that 10 or 15 thousand people will give a good atmosphere.

The worst case scenario would be big empty stadiums like Glasgow or Edinburgh. That's terrible for a team.

siltirocker

Munster v Leinster early May - 82,202

Connacht v Ulster early May - 2,382


:mad:

[Jackass]

I think Thomond is perfect to be honest. 26,000 is very big for a club rugby team, they've got Lansdowne road if they need it for European Semis (if Leinster aren't already using it ) and they'll have a 12k or so Musgrave park for smaller games.

I think it's a very good set up.

Leinster has a very good set-up too with 18,500 for ML and HEC group games and Lansdowne road for home inter-pro games and big European games (home quarters or semis).

It's good for now, but hopefully over the next few years when Leinster attendence grows and grows RDS will become full capacity 90% of the time (Leicester who have massive support rarely fill to the brim their 17,500 capacity ground, but there's wouldn't ever be less than 16,500 in it so it's perfect for their size)

I wouldn't be too worries about the above attendence figures, with Lansdowne road in operation I'd imagine Leinsters average attendence would be around 25,000 every season which is right up there with the best.

Riskymove

siltirocker wrote: »

Munster v Leinster early May - 82,202

Connacht v Ulster early May - 2,382


:mad:

If Connaucht v Ulster had been a heineken Cup semi i think they might have got a few more though the turnstiles

Riskymove

Ares wrote: »

They had a big game against Leicester in the premiership over christmas in Twickers with attendance of 50000. that must have helped.Cant remember if they moved any others

Stade Francais also held some games at the Stade de France (in the HEC anyway, if that counts) so that would also affect numbers

Zzippy

siltirocker wrote: »

Munster v Leinster early May - 82,202

Connacht v Ulster early May - 2,382


:mad:

And your point is?

You can't compare a HEC semi-final with 60,000+ bandwagon-jumpers to an end-of-season ML game with nothing to play for. That's like comparing NZ-SA in the Tri-Nations to Ire-Canada in Vancouver... :rolleyes:

ALH-06

[Jackass] wrote: »

It's good for now, but hopefully over the next few years when Leinster attendence grows and grows RDS will become full capacity 90% of the time (Leicester who have massive support rarely fill to the brim their 17,500 capacity ground, but there's wouldn't ever be less than 16,500 in it so it's perfect for their size)

I wouldn't be too worries about the above attendence figures, with Lansdowne road in operation I'd imagine Leinsters average attendence would be around 25,000 every season which is right up there with the best.

Leicester have already started redeveloping their ground into a 30,000 seater. Shows what they expect of the future.

Regarding Leinster's future - it is the only professional club in a city of 1.6 million people. With the continued growth in popularity of rugby in Dublin and around the country, future increases in support and attendance are assured.

I'm astounded walking around my neighbourhood and seeing kids playing rugby on the green. NEVER happened before, when I was growing up. Times are changing, these kids won't abandon rugby as soon as the national team stop winning trophies etc.

[Jackass]

ALH-06 wrote: »

Leicester have already started redeveloping their ground into a 30,000 seater. Shows what they expect of the future.

Regarding Leinster's future - it is the only professional club in a city of 1.6 million people. With the continued growth in popularity of rugby in Dublin and around the country, future increases in support and attendance are assured.

I'm astounded walking around my neighbourhood and seeing kids playing rugby on the green. NEVER happened before, when I was growing up. Times are changing, these kids won't abandon rugby as soon as the national team stop winning trophies etc.

Yeah I agree, driving through Irish town and ringsend recently I saw a good few people in Leinster gear, some Leisnter flags hanging around...every pub seems to have a Leinster flag now (thank you OLSC) and I see kids in Drumcondra, Fairview etc. throwing around a rugby ball. It's great!! Tradiotionally these are places you would never see Leinster represented.

I know people always go on about the size of Dublin etc., but you have to remember in Dublin this is a tiny TINY minority sport and if you look at Munster, ALL GAA fans transcend the sporting lines, so they get massive numbers through that, but after some excellent PR, Marketing and character assassinations through old pundits in sh*t papers and opposition fans, but most notably a comic author, Leinster was expertly labelled a D4 side followed by snobs and blue blood west brits...that kind of damage takes time to repair (well done to all of ye by the way, very impressive job, only possible in a country like ours) which i think has given Leinster the chip on the shoulder they really needed and by god did the passion, pride, search for redemption and victim complex come into play this season and long may it last!

Imagine all GAA fans from Dublin ALONE transcended into rugby - the GAA team that if they get knocked out of the all Ireland before the semi-finals it's an absolute disastor for the GAA financially, with 60,000 easily going to any game....if we can get those fans into the sport and start bringing our provincial friends from outside Dublin (of which there are already plenty, but lots more to come hopefully) who have been alienated by the city southside toff vs the Munster working class hero (from private boarding schools) equation then Leinster support would be phenominal - but it will take time, it will take sucsess and it will take a little bit of luck, but Leinster is gaining momentum now as a sleeping giant of European rugby, you only have to look at our academy and underage teams to see the knock on effect alreay coming through in quality and hopefully not long from now we can recover from the demolishin job we had to endure for the first 10 - 15 years of professionalisim.

ALH-06

[Jackass] wrote: »

It will take time, it will take sucsess and it will take a little bit of luck, but Leinster is gaining momentum now as a sleeping giant of European rugby, you only have to look at our academy and underage teams to see the knock on effect alreay coming through in quality and hopefully not long from now we can recover from the demolishin job we had to endure for the first 10 - 15 years of professionalisim.

Inspired post.

I don't agree necessarily that the stereotype is a complete myth, but it's a view that is gradually being dispelled, and this is for the good of Irish rugby. The way it is being talked about here, you'd believe the only accent you hear at the RDS is a D4 one. Simply not the case lads, and if you're not convinced, maybe you should go to a match or two there and find out for yourselves!

A lot of my friends who didn't go to rugby schools have become big rugby fans in the last few years. This trend will definitely continue - Leinster rugby will continue to grow massively as a supporter sport all over Dublin*.

*Especially with Lunsters re-evaluating their positions after next Saturday

mikedragon32

Podge_irl wrote: »

Hmmmm, didn't notice that. Then I have no idea, as you say the Stoop only holds 12000 or so.

Quins played Leicester in Twickenham in Dec, 50,000 attendance and that would push the numbers up a bit.

Also Podge, IIRC, the Stade match was played in the Stoop too.

crisco10

mikedragon32 wrote: »

Quins played Leicester in Twickenham in Dec, 50,000 attendance and that would push the numbers up a bit.

Also Podge, IIRC, the Stade match was played in the Stoop too.

Twas. they made a big deal of that in the QF match programme...

Podge_irl

Right so, don't know why the hell I thought it was in Twickers. Clearly I'm losing my mind.

danthefan

You know what's a very strange thought? Around 2% of the entire population of Ireland were in Croke Park the weekend before last.

The capacity of Donnybrook is around 6.5k by the way.

remus808

danthefan wrote: »

You know what's a very strange thought? Around 2% of the entire population of Ireland were in Croke Park the weekend before last.

The capacity of Donnybrook is around 6.5k by the way.

Well off mate, it's more like 12k.

11,200 to be specific.

crisco10

danthefan wrote: »

You know what's a very strange thought? Around 2% of the entire population of Ireland were in Croke Park the weekend before last.

And at least 2 people in the stadium were pretty much guaranteed to be born on the exact same day too.

danthefan

karmabass wrote: »

Well off mate, it's more like 12k.

Really? Is this as a result of the new stand? Well it was 6.5k when Leinster played there anyway.

RuggieBear

danthefan wrote: »

Really? Is this as a result of the new stand? Well it was 6.5k when Leinster played there anyway.

yeah it was defo 6.5 when leinster were last playing there...down from 8k on safety grounds which was down from about 12k with no safety considerations! lol

Tomtom364

Joe Sweet Mechanic wrote: »

How the hell are Harlequins in there,the stoop is tiny.

12,000 capacity or something.

They use twickers alot in the GP

danthefan

Tomtom364 wrote: »

They use twickers alot in the GP

Not really, only 1 regular season game was there, then the final. Not even the SFs were in Twickenham.

Tomtom364

danthefan wrote: »

Not really, only 1 regular season game was there, then the final. Not even the SFs were in Twickenham.

really? i though they had played a few games there this year.
my mistake

leeroybrown

Tomtom364 wrote: »

They use twickers alot in the GP

As pointed out above it was just the one game. They were limited to 50,000 (sold out) on safety grounds by the Police as it was played during the Christmas public transport shutdown. AFAIK, for next season they're trying to get the restriction lifted so that they'll have use of the full 82,000. It's convenient having your big event stadium 0.5 miles down the road...

roryok

Average attendances can be quite misleading as one or two big games in a larger stadium can really skew things.
Stade francais palyed 3 big games this year against clermont, toulouse and perpignan at stade de france. these gave their normal average attendance quite a boost.
their lowest attendance in the french 14 this year was about 9000

danthefan

roryok wrote: »

Average attendances can be quite misleading as one or two big games in a larger stadium can really skew things.
Stade francais palyed 3 big games this year against clermont, toulouse and perpignan at stade de france. these gave their normal average attendance quite a boost.
their lowest attendance in the french 14 this year was about 9000

The guy who bankrolls Stade sells the tickets for the game for peanuts and puts on loads of marketing etc to get people into the stadium too. It's genius and really ups the profile of the club and rugby in general but definitely inflates their attendances.

Judgement Day

Is it just me and am I being unduly worried about the low attendance figures at some recent matches (9,012 at last nights Leinster/Llanelli match) in a country where rugby union is the national sport and a dismal 4,462 (!) at last nights' Glasgow/Gloucester match. Compared with 26,000 who watched Munster thumping Perpignan last night? I am concerned that in both Wales and Scotland the game appears to be teetering on the brink of ......probably just me being negative. Anyone there to cheer me up on this.

Podge_irl

Judgement Day wrote: »

Is it just me and am I being unduly worried about the low attendance figures at some recent matches (9,012 at last nights Leinster/Llanelli match) in a country where rugby union is the national sport and a dismal 4,462 (!) at last nights' Glasgow/Gloucester match. Compared with 26,000 who watched Munster thumping Perpignan last night? I am concerned that in both Wales and Scotland the game appears to be teetering on the brink of ......probably just me being negative. Anyone there to cheer me up on this.

That's actually a decent figure for Glasgow. They're attendances are on the up (albeit slowly) rather then going down or stagnating.

The Welsh attendances are a worry, but a lot of Welsh fans simply don't feel any attachment to the make-shift regional sides.

Digifriendly

Podge_irl wrote: »

That's actually a decent figure for Glasgow. They're attendances are on the up (albeit slowly) rather then going down or stagnating.

The Welsh attendances are a worry, but a lot of Welsh fans simply don't feel any attachment to the make-shift regional sides.

Agree. Cardiff's shared stadium looked nowhere near full for visit of Toulouse. Also Liberty Stadium is rarely full for Ospreys' matches though looks fuller when Swansea City play at home. Yet I can well remember back in the '70's when Pontypool attracted up to 20,000 for Welsh derbies! BTW just checked figure for Cardiff vs Toulouse - just over a third full!

Snickers Man

Podge_irl wrote: »

That's actually a decent figure for Glasgow. They're attendances are on the up (albeit slowly) rather then going down or stagnating.

The Welsh attendances are a worry, but a lot of Welsh fans simply don't feel any attachment to the make-shift regional sides.

Yeah. I was quite surprised to see so many empty seats at the Llanelli Leinster game at Parc y Scarlets. After all, Scarlets were leading the group before the game kicked off. And they were playing the European champions.

Yet the official attendance was just over 9,000 in a 15,000 cap stadium. A great shame.

You can't force people to support a sports side just because it's there but I think Welsh (and Scottish) rugby have similar choices to make with regard to the Magners League and professional rugby in their countries: Do they want to support Welsh/Scottish players (in the main) playing for Welsh/Scottish teams in their own countries or do they want to end up like Irish soccer with ALL their talent playing overseas and those brave souls who try to keep the game alive in their own country treated as a laughing stock?

Tough call to make but that's the starkness of the choice.