A Free to View alternative to DTT for Irish TV?

rlogue

Now we all know RTÉ are tied into Sky as part of their secret deal to get their channels onto the Sky platform at no cost to RTÉ - but what about considering a seperate Free to View transmission in addition to the existing Sky transmissions?

Could RTÉ consider going direct to Astra or any other satellite provider and pay for them to transmit the domestic Irish channels on the same basis as Bis, TNTSAT or Fransat in France?

Were RTÉ to sell the Free to View cards with a CAM to consumers and broadcast their EPG in the standard DVB-S format as used by the German channels then any satellite receiver (including Freesat receivers) could be used to watch and record Irish TV.

Surely this would be cheaper than rolling out what may well turn out to be an expensive DVB-T network to rural areas?

FooManChoo

Thats the way it should be, but do you think RTE would do it, I doubt it

Sonic_exyouth

rlogue wrote: »

Now we all know RTÉ are tied into Sky as part of their secret deal to get their channels onto the Sky platform at no cost to RTÉ - but what about considering a seperate Free to View transmission in addition to the existing Sky transmissions?

Could RTÉ consider going direct to Astra or any other satellite provider and pay for them to transmit the domestic Irish channels on the same basis as Bis, TNTSAT or Fransat in France?

Were RTÉ to sell the Free to View cards with a CAM to consumers and broadcast their EPG in the standard DVB-S format as used by the German channels then any satellite receiver (including Freesat receivers) could be used to watch and record Irish TV.

Surely this would be cheaper than rolling out what may well turn out to be an expensive DVB-T network to rural areas?

Give, surely?

Liam Byrne

I would assume that if RTE did that then they'd be paying a small fortune for the rights to shows ?

rlogue

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I would assume that if RTE did that then they'd be paying a small fortune for the rights to shows ?

Why should RTÉ/TV3/TG4 pay any more for rights than they are already paying? My proposal would restrict the sale of cards to viewers in the Republic and NI. Access to RTÉ programming outside of the island of Ireland would still be via the RTÉ International channel if that were ever to happen.

watty

They can't afford Sky's price for FTV and won't take risk of a different system.

An alternate card can't be used on a Sky box. A non-Sky FTV card scheme is not feasible and the present situation suits RTE far better than paying for EPG, Encryptions, Card, call centre and Carriage.

You are correct that it doesn't affect any other costs.


If the Government made it a condition of being allowed to sell here at all to give RTE cheap FTV. Sky would complain to EU and point out they are regulated in UK, who spinelessly decided the FTV pricing was OK.

vsat

From a reliable source at RTE. Sky pay RTE a small perentage for having them on there platform.

Regards,

Tony

Are you sure about that Watty? Sky Digital was being sold here for a long time before RTE came on the platform. I dont see how the government can stop anyone from selling a product or service from another EU country.

watty wrote: »

The Government made it a condition of being allowed to sell here at all to give RTE cheap FTV.

ASTRALSAT

vsat wrote: »

From a reliable source at RTE. Sky pay RTE a small perentage for having them on there platform.

Regards,

yes sky tv would be lost without them, if you pay a TV licence they should be free by any medium. Broadcasting rights issues is just a smoke screen after all, RTE is resold by sky in the north to people who pay RTE nothing in the way of licence fees, same goes for us ie BBC we pay them nothing and but watch it free.
Who gave sky the right to resell RTE to another country which is part of the UK?

Mossy Monk

ASTRALSAT wrote: »

Who gave sky the right to resell RTE to another country which is part of the UK?

RTÉ did at a guess.

Don't forget there was a time when we received BBC 1 and 2 Northern Ireland and they were encrypted.

watty

RTE is received in almost 70% of NI terrestrially (Pop rather than geo probably?). It's also on NI Cable. So indeed inexpensive for RTE to let Sky put RTE on NI packs.


Unfortunately the exact details of any Sky <-> RTE deal has always been fairly secret.

watty

Tony wrote: »

I dont see how the government can stop anyone from selling a product or service from another EU country.

Of course they can't. I left out an "if"

However if you sell more than certain value you are supposed to register for VAT locally. There is also no doubt as to why Astra is based in Luxembourg and why Sky (who are not British) chose the UK market first. Sky has also been more than well "treated" in terms of BBC & ITV pricing complaints. The UK regulator has agreed Sky's pricing which cost MORE for encryption OR EPG for a TV channel than the Astra or Eutelsat carriage! Neither of these things cost Sky much at all. Notionally the Encryption is expensive. But NDS are also a subsidiary of the same Murdoch empire. The actual running cost of EPG is nearly nothing as it's automatic and the broadcasters compile and supply the info. The real Viewing card/Call centre cost is maybe about €30 a year max per subscriber.

If the UK regulator / courts had found that that Sky are massively (by 95% IMO) overcharging for EPG and encryption they simply would move their uplinks and offices elsewhere. If the EU regulated they would no doubt move to Morocco or someplace in North Africa. Maybe have to have a MONSTER uplink dish for Astra 2D or uplink it in Iceland (they are not yet in EU and have good 2D).

Similarly the way Sky got into to Italian market is not honorable. Serious allegations were made as to who hacked the cards of the two Italian operators making them cheap to take over. Sky made an out of court Settlement and upped the prices it was paying to get Canal+ to drop the case.
The UK OnDigital went bust because of 3 reasons:
1) Pay DTT in UK not competitive to Satellite/Cable, too few channels.
2) Paid too much for sport (bidding against Sky)
3) 30% of people using pirate cards. (same reason as Italy).

I don't know what the solution to Sky's effective Monopoly of Satellite PayTV in UK & Ireland is and abuse of the position. Ironically now that BBC, ITV, C4 have given up the direct fight (charges) and side stepped Sky with first Freeview and now FreeSat, it's much less likely anyone anywhere will do anything about Sky.

Virgin tried to kick up about the fact that Sky is both the Sat platform, but sells rights to Sky1, Sky Movies, Sky Sport in such a way to make any other operator less competitive than themselves. Hence Virgin1.

Little help they got from anyone.

So in conclusion.

The only FTA RTE there will be is on DTT.

Unless something cataclysmic happens there will be no RTE FTV on Satellite. It's not in Sky's Interest. It's not actually in RTE's interest (directly from point of view of bean counters). There are over 470,000 Sky boxes probably, and you can see from above there is no-one to make Sky enable those for non-sky cards.

Sky have now migrated all SkyItalia subscribers to Sky Digibox and NDS card.

NDS is the most secure and expensive encryption, Murdoch's empire will make sure via Lawyers, deploying 2nd grade version of it to other operators (Sky is also Murdoch) and via engineers that it remains so.

Read about the recent case in Canada and the viewing card breaking and allegations as to where the money came from.

Many of the "broken cards" / systems of the last few years were not broken by script kiddies, black hat hackers or such. But by well funded labs reverse engineering the whole system.

This thread really is going nowhere and is pure wishful thinking. RTE will only be FTV if the Government pays Sky more that what sky think they would lose in subs. Not the real cost of encryption and carriage.

rlogue

But Watty, the whole point of my starting the thread in the first place was my question of whether it was cheaper to set up a separate FTV satellite service than rolling out DTT to the many rural transposers in the country?

I also think OneVision might be a dead duck. Setanta and Eircom have their money issues - TV3 could end up funding the whole thing themselves. But if RTÉ end up with the DTT licence would it not be cheaper to do what the French have done and provide satellite as the "fill in" service rather than spending the money on all the transposer sites around the country?

This "fill in" service would be on seperate transponders to the existing Sky service - note that there are several versions of France 2-5 on different satellites with different levels of encryption. There would no need to engage Sky on providing a FTV card service as this would be too expensive.

Much of Donegal and Mayo have no analogue TV3 so how the hell can we expect DTT at those sites?

One point comes out clearly though. We as a nation have no credible digital strategy. We are hoping that somehow a white knight in the form of first Boxer and now TV3/Setanta/Eircom will pay for DTT and we allow our national broadcasters to rely wholly on Murdoch's charity to provide a satellite service.

We have seen how it has all gone wrong, from the initial debacle of It's TV, through to Boxer, and RTÉ's secret sweetheart deal with Sky which along the way canned Tara and possibly RTÉ International as well.

It is, as the late Paddy Donegan would say, a load of Thundering B******s and a F*****g Disgrace.

watty

You can't have all the channels of national TV service totally under the control of a Foreign Company.

However perhaps the government could pay for FTV (to Sky) for a limited number of people by geo-code?


But Boxer / Onevision etc is NOTHING to do with the roll out of the PBX mux. Not one cent of rhe Free DTT Mux is paid for by the Commercial Mux operators.

All we lose is the extra channels, most of which (practically all) are free on Satellite.

scruffy66

watty wrote: »

You can't have all the channels of national TV service totally under the control of a Foreign Company.



There is no doubt that Watty knows a lot on this subject, but you cant use the reason that the national TV service would be under a Foreign companies control as a reason why RTE should not pursue a way to have its channels free on satellite when the fact is UPC and SKY are foreign companies.If it is possible for RTE to be on satellite separate to SKY and use a different encryption and have a policy of the cards being sold on a one off basis to irish households, then they should try to do this.
IF it is not illegal to do this ,then it must be a cost issue , so what would it cost.
Would it cost 10 million a year ,if so i am sure there are companies out there that would love some of it.
RTE could ask for an increase in the license fee to pay for it ,lets say 10euro
this could be justified by the fact that RTE would be helping to provide a credible free to air satellite service with the card putting RTE at the top of the list epg.
SKY would'nt be happy but i dont understand what they could do as they need RTE just as much as RTE need them.
The thing to remember is RTE is not a private company and if this is possible to do and the cost could be put on the license fee, then pressure should be put on RTE to do so, in the public interest.
This issue will never go away Watty

Trevord

I'd have to agree with what much of the OP said. Afterall, freesat was created for the UK precisely to solve the rural reception problem.

But when you think about it, how would Irish sky customers react if RTE moved to freesat and were longer on Sky ?

Sky customers would then need two boxes to continue to watch the range of channels they currently have (sky box and freesat box).

The alternative (and current plan) is that those with freesat here in Ireland will need two boxes, one for freesat and the other for RTE etc on DTT.

Both solutions would incovenience some consumers and because freesat has a lot less customers than SKY here in Ireland, I think RTE on freesat (only) would be unpopular move with a lot of SKY households, especially with those who want Sky Sports and other channels freesat won't be able to carry.

Paying to receive UK channels in Ireland is seen as "the norm" and unfortunately that mindset won't change easily.

watty

RTE could have a FTV (encrypted but once off payment for Irish people), but not from Sky. Real TV don't seem to be getting anywhere, though. I suspect that is what started this thread. A lot has happened

http://realdigitaltv.com/

Pay DTT is gone as we thought it would, since the thread started.

Using FTV Satellite to fill in Missing DTT coverage is acceptible. But unless we had our own Irish Platform, Satellite instead of DTT is not a viable option.

scruffy66

watty wrote: »

RTE could have a FTV (encrypted but once off payment for Irish people), but not from Sky. Real TV don't seem to be getting anywhere, though. I suspect that is what started this thread. A lot has happened

http://realdigitaltv.com/

Pay DTT is gone as we thought it would, since the thread started.

Using FTV Satellite to fill in Missing DTT coverage is acceptible. But unless we had our own Irish Platform, Satellite instead of DTT is not a viable option.

RTE has being paying for the running cost of its analogue service as it stands and i can only presume that the running costs of the digital service will be much the same when the analogue is switched off.

So there is no problem in finishing the job and keeping RTE free through an aerial and lets forget about pay TV aspect of it.

Real TV proves one thing and that is that there is nothing stopping RTE going free to air on satellite using a separate encryption card to SKY.

THIS does'nt mean that RTE have to switch from SKY to free to air Trevord,

They can stay on SKY and run a separate service on satellite to give greater choice to its license fee payers.

IT all comes down to cost but people are already switching to free to air to get rid of their monthly bill [250-300 for basic package]

SO increasing the license fee to pay for RTE to be available on satellite [encrypted on different transponders but free through a card with one off payment]separate to SKY can only bring greater choice to the license fee payers.

RTE'S only concerns should be , are people watching RTE and if 40% of the country switched to FTA, with RTE topping the list through an encryption card ,then chances are people would watch more of RTE because of the limited service that free to air offers

And TREVORD RTE can never be on FREESAT , the boxes dont have a card slot

STB

Outisde of the fine points already made I think under present legislation RTEs statutory responsibilty extends to being Free to Air rather than Free to view.

Also you have to consider the advertising money that goes with being on another platform through advertising. There are mutual benefits.

It would be a huge financial undertaking to do what you are suggesting. Not a runner in this generation I would think Richard!

watty

scruffy66 wrote: »

So there is no problem in finishing the job and keeping RTE free through an aerial and lets forget about pay TV aspect of it.

Real TV proves one thing and that is that there is nothing stopping RTE going free to air on satellite using a separate encryption card to SKY.

No. Not Free To Air,

Encryption + card + once off (or small annual) payment* = Free to View

It might require legislation (as has been mentioned)


(*Maybe €100 or much more given size of market, the UK/BBC Solas/Freesat-from-sky card was subsidised at £21 and a 20x bigger market)

scruffy66

STB wrote: »

Also you have to consider the advertising money that goes with being on another platform through advertising. There are mutual benefits.

It would be a huge financial undertaking to do what you are suggesting. Not a runner in this generation I would think Richard!

I find it funny when people bring up the financial implications for RTE going free to view [stand corrected watty]

Is there not any financial implications for RTE not going Free to view on satellite.

1/ How many people have already gone FREETOAIR/FREESAT ?

2/ Are they watching RTE through a proper aerial or bunny ears with poor reception and has this effected how much they watch RTE, or did some switch from sky to free to air and not bother with RTE.

3/What is going to happen to all those freetoair/freesat boxes when Analogue is switched off. Are people going to buy an mpeg 4 digital tuner to sit along there freesat/freetoair tuner or change their relatively new mpeg 2 TV for one that has an mpeg 4 tuner.Not everybody is going to want to fork out more money for a combo box

4/How many people have got sky in the living room and just FREETOAIR in the other rooms with no RTES and thats before analogue is switched off.

5/ The freesat service is slowly changing the way people think about having a monthly bill for TV , thats reality.RTE cant change that fact.

6/ IF people are saving 250/300 a year on their TV bill, then it can be justified to increase the license fee by 10 euro or so in order to pay for the costs of RTE going FREETOVIEW on satellite

7/In the long run RTE is going to have to go FREETOVIEW on satellite because of the very financial reasons that people say they cant.

watty

FTV won't work at all on a Freesat/FTA box. most don't have CAM or CI.

FTV needs an encryption provider and setbox with CAM (nearly doubles price, excluding LNB, cable, Dish, install). Sky is horribly, horribly expensive as a FTV provider.

I believe RTE and Real Digital TV have at least communicated, but I think Real needs to launch first and I think legislation might be needed for users to be charged (Otherwise RTE has to pay and thus people with aerials not using FTV would be paying).

It's not as simple or as cheap as you think. Sky will not let the existing Irish TV on satellite be dual encrypted as it's their transmission. RTE, TG4 and TV3 would have to pay for carriage either direct from Astra or Eutelsat or from Real (who wish to lease from Eutesat).

I have four boxes at my TV (one is Home Theatre Amp). A fifth box isn't an huge issue. Also over then next few years some people may buy new TVs.

I'm personally sceptical that Analogue will all be turned off by 31st Dec 2012. I'm convinced that's when the weasels will start to turn it off.

Some people already don't have RTE.

There is some merit in your points, but they are weak.

rlogue

Real Digital have stated that it's their intention to launch first in Ireland so if that's the case there is the tantalising possibility of a cheaper alternative to Sky if all you want is the Irish terrestrials, the UK Freesat channels and maybe some other nice extras.

It will be interesting to see how the ongoing case about the wholesale price of Sky Sports ends up - cheaper Sky Sports, UK Freesat and RTE/TV3/TG4 anyone?

scruffy66

watty wrote: »

FTV won't work at all on a Freesat/FTA box. most don't have CAM or CI.

FTV needs an encryption provider and setbox with CAM (nearly doubles price, excluding LNB, cable, Dish, install). Sky is horribly, horribly expensive as a FTV provider.

I believe RTE and Real Digital TV have at least communicated, but I think Real needs to launch first and I think legislation might be needed for users to be charged (Otherwise RTE has to pay and thus people with aerials not using FTV would be paying).

It's not as simple or as cheap as you think. Sky will not let the existing Irish TV on satellite be dual encrypted as it's their transmission. RTE, TG4 and TV3 would have to pay for carriage either direct from Astra or Eutelsat or from Real (who wish to lease from Eutesat).

I have four boxes at my TV (one is Home Theatre Amp). A fifth box isn't an huge issue. Also over then next few years some people may buy new TVs.

I'm personally sceptical that Analogue will all be turned off by 31st Dec 2012. I'm convinced that's when the weasels will start to turn it off.

Some people already don't have RTE.

There is some merit in your points, but they are weak.

YOU cant have it every way, on the one hand your saying how expensive the box with cam/ ci [cost from 50 euro, installation cost much the same as freetoair or freesat if you dont already have a dish [200 to 300 euro ] and on the other your says you would have no problem paying for a 5th box for DTT TV AND OR paying for a new TV with mpeg 4 tuner.

How much will it cost for lashing kit ,pole ,amp ,power supply DTT aerial and installation [ between 200 and 300 euro , oh and mpeg 4 tuner 50 euro or new mpeg 4 TV and by the way how come the minister has'nt issued a directive to the TV shops to only stock TVS with mpeg4 tuners?

I was thinking that RTE would pay for carriage direct from Astra and pay for encryption from some one other than sky.

You keep saying it would be to expensive without actually saying how much it would cost.So lets get a price for this proposal and then we can know whether it is to expensive or not.

RTE seems to have no problem communicating with different pay TV providers, SO why dont they communicate with us ,the license fee payers to see if we would pay more in license fees to pay for such an over simplistic solution

watty

It will be < €30 for a basic DTT setbox, maybe less than €20 by end 2011.

In most cases it will work with existing TV aerial. In many cases with a less aerial than existing analogue. Dishes are far more expensive than aerials and far more expensive to install.

I tested various setboxes here. I could get DTT with my outdoor aerial and mast amp, or a set-top aerial in kitchen. Analogue only works here with outdoor aerial and mast amp.

I'm not interested in paying more for RTE to be on FTV satellite. A TV aerial feeds any number of TVs. TVs with built in DTT will be the norm. Zero analogue TVs sold in UK in June. All had DTT tuners as minimum.

You can feed huge numbers of TVs from a dish, but it jumps up in price somewhat after 4 or else 2 PVRs.

I think about 5% will need Satellite. But that's small enough that RTE could pay for FTV for them directly at ASO (in 2013) or even do a subscription deal with Sky and they get free card.

A general FTV scheme is more expensive (open to all), but if Real Digital TV (Fortec, Rapture etc) get off the ground and legislation is done allowing RTE to make an annual charge for it, then indeed FTV without Sky is possible.

You still have to have the 95% or ideally 98% to 99% DTT rollout.

Trevord

scruffy66 wrote: »

And TREVORD RTE can never be on FREESAT , the boxes dont have a card slot

I think its unlikely that RTE TV 1 & 2 will be on Freesat but not necessarily due to the technical obstacles you mention (see below).

The door to Freesat should still be open for an RTE international with domestically produced (no rights issues) content culled from Rte1 and 2 to go on freesat.

Getting back to the CAM issue... The Humax Foxsat already has a CI slot.
See below response from Freesat boss to issue of subscription channels on Freesat..Never say Never

Q: Are there any plans for CAM slots/pay tv to be introduced to freesat? Such as subscribing to individual channels without the large monthly costs Sky currently offer. Top Up TV for Freesat?

A: Freesat’s no bills, no strings promise has proven very popular. However, we will continue to consider all options for improving the service in the future and pay TV, most likely using a third party supplier, is a potential option following Ofcom’s Wholesale Must Offer decision.

http://www.joinfreesat.co.uk/index.php/response-ask-emma-scott-a-question

watty

The huge base of existing Freesat have no CI or CAM.

Even a FTA RTE Intenational is costly as any of the production companies, RTE contract people, Unions etc will want more pay and/or royalties for the x20 bigger audience. Contrary to popular belief it's not just imported shows and sport that's more expensive or impossible FTA for RTE (very much more expensive).

Also cost of carriage and EPG.

scruffy66

Your not treating like with like , a Sky dish is 20 euro a quad Lnb is 10 and the box with cam 50,that is 80 euro ,the installation and equipment will be the same from CORk to Donegal and an installer may charge from 180 euro to 280 euro depending.A n octo LNB is about 30euro

The installation for aerials will vary from place to place but a lashing kit 15 euro [CAI in uk dont recommend drilling brackets to the chimney] galvo pole 10euro master head amp and power supply 20 euro aerial 25 euro and 4 way splitter 10 euro,thats 80 euro + the box[ does this DTT box for 30 euro have a card slot in it or we going just with the RTES]
Anyway supply and installation cost again would be the same 180 to 280 euro

There is as many existing dishes out there as aerials probably more.
So far more expensive is just simply not true

As far as you not being interested in paying more for RTE to be FTV on
satellite , thats just one opinion, I for one would pay a bit more to see RTE
FTV on sat.

We still have'nt found out how much this would cost.

Apogee

Transponder leasing costs aren't openly available, only rough numbers. This documents estimates $7000/MHz/month for Europe, probably a lower end estimate.
http://info.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Teaching/Courses/eem.scma/satcommsa2004part5.ppt

A transponder on Astra has 26MHz bandwidth, approx 33/34Mbps.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astra_2D

RTÉ 1,2 and TG4 use approx 11Mbps, so you're looking at $728,000 transmission costs alone per year.
http://www.linowsat.de/cgi-bin/lsat.cgi?0282-10744-H-2043-0-0

You could cut costs by opting for MPEG4 and DVB-S2, although you reduce your target market, and you still have uplink, EPG and encryption costs to account for.

rlogue

MPEG4 and DVB-S2 are the future and the kit will come down in price over time. Only today I saw a FTA HD satellite kit at my local Screwfix store for £70.

Apogee

To be honest, DVB-S vs DVB-S2, or MPEG2 vs MPEG4 aren't the major obstacles.

It's simply a case that RTÉ don't give a f*ck either way whether some people have decent TV reception or not. And as far as they're concerned, if they can't receive RTÉ with an aerial, they can pay Sky to receive it. And in the meantime, they'll trot out bullsh*t coverage statistics to Oireachtas committees and pretend everything is hunky dorey.

Macy0161

watty wrote: »

Even a FTA RTE Intenational is costly as any of the production companies, RTE contract people, Unions etc will want more pay and/or royalties for the x20 bigger audience. Contrary to popular belief it's not just imported shows and sport that's more expensive or impossible FTA for RTE (very much more expensive).

I'm sure they'd want it, but is the commercial reality that they'd get it? Admittedly, this is RTE who vastly overpays it's stars when there's little competition, but still, if they're not working for RTE who else are their buyers?

Liam Byrne

watty wrote: »

TVs with built in DTT will be the norm. Zero analogue TVs sold in UK in June. All had DTT tuners as minimum.

And when do you propose that people upgrade their TVs ?

I reckon all of mine are good for at least another 6 or 7 years minimum.

watty

I'll be using setboxes on all mine. But only one DTT set after launch and the others will get setboxes at ASO. There may even be a subsidy. I might put a DTT USB receiver on my media server just for "DAB" only Radio channels.

I'll not replace any TV that's working.

Cantona's Collars

They ran ads in UK regarding Digital Switchover regarding the need to upgrade tv sets,a lot of people were misinformed so the ads were made to explain that you don't need a new tv,just a compatible set top box.Even so,thousands of people went out and bought new tv sets.The majority of new sets come with the receivers built in nowadays.You didn't go buy a new telly just because you got sky so no need to buy one for dtt.

scruffy66

watty wrote: »

The huge base of existing Freesat have no CI or CAM.

Even a FTA RTE Intenational is costly as any of the production companies, RTE contract people, Unions etc will want more pay and/or royalties for the x20 bigger audience. Contrary to popular belief it's not just imported shows and sport that's more expensive or impossible FTA for RTE (very much more expensive).

Also cost of carriage and EPG.

Here we go again, saying its to expensive and costly for RTE to be FREE TO VIEW or to have an RTE INTERNATIONAL , without giving any idea of what the actual costs would be.

DID RTE not already have an agreed date for RTE international to launch with annual running costs of between 1 and 2 million and then it was cancelled .

AND As far as the unions and workers go, their main worry is holding on to their jobs and pay cuts ,i dont think in a recession they have much muscle.

And royalties x20% bigger audience,GREAT if there's that much interest in
RTE INTERNATIONAL , let them sell advertising ,maybe it will make a profit

FTA has been around a few years now and in them few years any time RTE INTERNATIONAL OR RTE FTV has been mentioned on BOARDS ,you've been firmly against it , saying how expensive it would be without giving any indication of how much it would cost.

SO WATTY are you only against RTE FTV and or RTE INTERNATIONAL on satellite ,on the grounds that it would be to expensive or do you have other
reasons why you would not like to see either of these things happen.

Trevord

I'd imagine RTE royalty thing is potentially very messy. Not alone is it about RTE being asked to pay more, it could involve other broadcasters asking to pay less on the basis that they don't have full exclusivity.

e.g think of Sky or ITV buying say Champions League rights for the UK. If RTE was widely available in the UK then presumably the value of the Champions League to Sky or ITV would be reduced.


As regards RTE International - puzzles me why it couldn't run on a shoe string. Cobble together stuff from RTE/TG4 current and archive programmes and off you go. Can't imagine you need too many staff.

STB

scruffy66 wrote: »

Here we go again, saying its to expensive and costly for RTE to be FREE TO VIEW or to have an RTE INTERNATIONAL , without giving any idea of what the actual costs would be.

DID RTE not already have an agreed date for RTE international to launch with annual running costs of between 1 and 2 million and then it was cancelled .

AND As far as the unions and workers go, their main worry is holding on to their jobs and pay cuts ,i dont think in a recession they have much muscle.

And royalties x20% bigger audience,GREAT if there's that much interest in
RTE INTERNATIONAL , let them sell advertising ,maybe it will make a profit

FTA has been around a few years now and in them few years any time RTE INTERNATIONAL OR RTE FTV has been mentioned on BOARDS ,you've been firmly against it , saying how expensive it would be without giving any indication of how much it would cost.

SO WATTY are you only against RTE FTV and or RTE INTERNATIONAL on satellite ,on the grounds that it would be to expensive or do you have other
reasons why you would not like to see either of these things happen.

Emm you do realise how a recession works ? Advertisers advertise less. Stations collect less money. There is lesss money to spend.

RTE lost €70 million alone in revenue last year. Online advertising overtook TV advertising both here and in the UK last year.

RTE over the last year and a half have been installing a DTT network and running it alongside the analogue network. That is extremely costly, especially when you have to it alone.

Now where would you like that satellite ?

watty

scruffy66 wrote: »

SO WATTY are you only against RTE FTV and or RTE INTERNATIONAL on satellite ,on the grounds that it would be to expensive or do you have other
reasons why you would not like to see either of these things happen.

I'm "FOR" both and have discussed it years ago with RTE. I'm just explaining the reason it hasn't happened in last 10 years is money. And that's the reason it won't happen this year or next.

scruffy66

watty wrote: »

I'm "FOR" both and have discussed it years ago with RTE. I'm just explaining the reason it hasn't happened in last 10 years is money. And that's the reason it won't happen this year or next.

Thanks WATTY ,i was'nt trying to be smart, BUT i dont believe that's RTE'S only reason for not being free on satellite. I think RTE are fundamentally against being free on satellite in any shape or form even if they had the money.

They've many reasons apart from money.

watty

No, that's nonsense.

If you had deep pockets to pay for it and offered Sat coverage with free cards to irish residents (with proof of Irish Address) and free satellite uplink, transmission, epg and encryption they would take it.

marclt

I'm closing this thread, as RTE have announced satellite transmissions and there is already an open thread on that.

If you disagree, or if it turns out it is FTV rather than FTA, then I'll reopen.