Quinlan Hearing

il gatto · 13-05-2009 3:49pm #1

What is the frickin' hold up? I have the RTE sport page up and keep refreshing it. Nearly five o'clock and still nothing.

Twin-go · 13-05-2009 3:50pm

il gatto wrote: »

What is the frickin' hold up? I have the RTE sport page up and keep refreshing it. Nearly five o'clock and still nothing.

Ditto

budhabob · 13-05-2009 3:50pm

I'm the same, and breakingnews. Total disaster its taking so long.

TarfHead · 13-05-2009 3:56pm

On the RTE lunchtime news, they said it could be late tonight, or even tomorrow.

BaboonCsection · 13-05-2009 3:59pm

Wouldn't bother waiting baited breath, it will be guilty and minimum of 9 weeks. Croft to take his place. Still though I love Quinny so fingers crossed I am wrong.

monaghanbiffo · 13-05-2009 4:17pm

I'm hoping its gonna be like that scene in "a time to kill"
The little black kid burts out of the courthouse...

Innocent, Innocent!!!!!!

phog · 13-05-2009 4:18pm

In an earleir thread that seems to have been deleted I said it would be 6 o'c at the earliest before an official announcement is made. That's based on past hearings.

thehighground · 13-05-2009 4:20pm

The delay is that there is obviously more to it than a nano second of a YouTube video to look at and discuss

13-05-2009 4:31pm

thehighground wrote: »

The delay is that there is obviously more to it than a nano second of a YouTube video to look at and discuss

That would be the main footage I would imagine.Its right on the incident.

thehighground · 13-05-2009 4:34pm

Anthony Thoughtless Teaspoon wrote: »

Yeah,he probably bit him aswell.;)

Goose, you back from another little 'holiday'?

You must be the Alan Quinlan of boards.ie

Edit: I see you are beginning to learn

EKRIUQ · 13-05-2009 4:45pm

12 week ban just on RTE news

Profiler · 13-05-2009 4:51pm

thehighground wrote: »

The delay is that there is obviously more to it than a nano second of a YouTube video to look at and discuss

A nano second is one billionth of one second.

All the evidence anyone needs to draw a reasonable conclusion is there for all to see.

Those who pretend not see what’s as plain as the nose on their face are obviously working to other agenda’s

Iang87 · 13-05-2009 4:53pm

12 week ban is a bit harsh

ssn still saying its not out yet

thehighground · 13-05-2009 4:55pm

Profiler wrote: »

A nano second is one billionth of one second.

All the evidence anyone needs to draw a reasonable conclusion is there for all to see.

Those who pretend not see what’s as plain as the nose on their face are obviously working to other agenda’s

So, what are they doing then if its so straight forward and simple And whats / whose agenda is it?

danthefan · 13-05-2009 5:03pm

He's been found guilty, looks like 12 weeks. Proper order, evidence was clear as day.

Iang87 · 13-05-2009 5:04pm

danthefan wrote: »

He's been found guilty, looks like 12 weeks. Proper order, evidence was clear as day.

it looks accidental tho

Chucky the tree · 13-05-2009 5:07pm

Iang87 wrote: »

it looks accidental tho

So? People who accidental kill someone usually get punished aswell. No difference here, if it was found to be delibrate he'd been looking at much much longer.

13-05-2009 5:12pm

Iang87 wrote: »

it looks accidental tho

Are you taking the piss?
Accidental my arse,your fingers dont just end up near someones eye and then pull at the area.Did you see the state of Cullens eye socket and eyelids?

12 weeks is not really fair,Neil Bests ban was harsher than that and his case was arguably less clear,So was Dylan Hartleys.They really need fairness across the board.

Gambler · 13-05-2009 5:13pm

danthefan wrote: »

He's been found guilty, looks like 12 weeks. Proper order, evidence was clear as day.

Source? not doubting just want to hear what the story is!

Chucky the tree · 13-05-2009 5:16pm

SSN have said the length of time hasnt been offically released but they expect it to be 9-12 weeks.

SSN just confirm it has been 12 weeks.

13-05-2009 5:17pm

Gambler wrote: »

Source? not doubting just want to hear what the story is!

The minimum ban is 12 weeks,so he could end up getting more but at a minimum it will be 12 weeks.

Gambler · 13-05-2009 5:20pm

Anthony Thoughtless Teaspoon wrote: »

The minimum ban is 12 weeks,so he could end up getting more but at a minimum it will be 12 weeks.

I meant source of the verdict, didn't notice the SSN part

http://www.setanta.com/uk/Articles/other-sports/2009/05/13/Rugby-Quinlan-citing/gnid-52773/

Super Sidious · 13-05-2009 5:24pm

Quinlan guilty

SSN 12 Week Ban misses Lions tour!

He deserves it for going anywhere near somebodys eyes... whoever cant see the evidence needs to cop on!

13-05-2009 5:24pm

Apperantly Cullen personally defended his character at the Hearing and Bod also spoke highly of him in interviews today,not sure he was there though.

You have to feel for him because he will miss the Lions tour but he only has himself to blame.

Podge_irl · 13-05-2009 5:25pm

Anthony Thoughtless Teaspoon wrote: »

The minimum ban is 12 weeks,so he could end up getting more but at a minimum it will be 12 weeks.

Players have gotten below the minimum ban before. The minimum is before any mitigating circumstances are accounted for.

13-05-2009 5:28pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Players have gotten below the minimum ban before. The minimum is before any mitigating circumstances are accounted for.

Is that not just English players?
The RFU dont adhere to the IRB guidlines,every other association do afaik.

Hazys · 13-05-2009 5:29pm

Anthony Thoughtless Teaspoon wrote: »

Are you taking the piss?
Accidental my arse,your fingers dont just end up near someones eye and then pull at the area.Did you see the state of Cullens eye socket and eyelids?

12 weeks is not really fair,Neil Bests ban was harsher than that and his case was arguably less clear,So was Dylan Hartleys.They really need fairness across the board.

TBF God made him that ugly not Quinlan.

thecornerboy · 13-05-2009 5:29pm

Very sad for him and we lose another Lion. You can have very little sympathy, it was beyond stupid to do it.

Jigsaw · 13-05-2009 5:30pm

Just confirmed on BBC 5 Live. Quinlan citing upheld and 12 week ban put in place.

What a stupid thing to have done a thing like that when he had been given this wonderful opportunity to play for the Lions. Crazy.

juvenal · 13-05-2009 5:30pm

Confirmed by RTÉ:

Alan Quinlan has been handed a 12-week suspension by an independent ERC disciplinary committee after he was found guilty of eye gouging Leo Cullen during Munster's Heineken Cup semi-final meeting with Leinster.

The ban threatens place on the Lions tour to South Africa and the Munster forward now has 72 hours in which lodge an appeal following written confirmation of the suspension by the disciplinary committee.

Earlier, Cullen's Leinster team-mate and Quinlan's fellow Lion Brian O'Driscoll said he hoped the flanker would escape punishment.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2009/0513/quinlana.html

Hardly surprising, and I don't think anyone can argue that there was at the very least recklessness on Quinlan's part. Only he himself knows whether there intent, but it certainly was irresponsible, and I don't think he could argue the ban.

Disappointing for him on a personal level considering his Lions selection, but in no way should the pending tour have being taken into consideration by the panel.

He has 72 hours to appeal.

Micky Dolenz · 13-05-2009 5:30pm

What a shame. It would have been a great end to a great career.
he really let himself down.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-05-2009 5:35pm

He got what he deserved im afraid..Pity, but he should have known better then to be that stupid

Podge_irl · 13-05-2009 5:35pm

Anthony Thoughtless Teaspoon wrote: »

Is that not just English players?
The RFU dont adhere to the IRB guidlines,every other association do afaik.

Don't think so, think I've seen ERC citing panels only giving half the minimum ban before citing circumstances. Not certain though.

juvenal · 13-05-2009 5:38pm

Here's the article from the ERC:

ercrugby.com wrote:

Alan Quinlan, the Munster back row forward (No 6), appeared before an independent Disciplinary Committee in Dublin today (Wednesday, 13 May, 2009), as a result of a citing arising from the Heineken Cup semi-final match against Leinster at Croke Park, Dublin, on Saturday, 2 May, 2009.

The citing lodged by the Citing Commissioner for the match, John Byett (England), was for an act contrary to good sportsmanship in contravention of Law 10.4 (k).

The independent Disciplinary Committee chaired by Roger Morris (Wales) and also comprising Simon Thomas (Wales) and Mike Hamlin (England), found Mr Quinlan guilty of foul play in contravention of Law 10.4 (k) in that he had made contact with the eye area of Leinster player Leo Cullen.

After considering the evidence, the independent Disciplinary Committee determined that the offence was at the low-range of the level of seriousness for an offence of this type.

Having taken into account any mitigating and aggravating factors the independent Disciplinary Committee suspended the player for a period of (12) twelve weeks starting today, 13 May, and running up to and including 9 September 2009.

The 12 week suspension is for 12 playing weeks with the off-season not included in the period of ineligibility.

Both parties have the right to appeal.

Law 10.4 (k) - Acts contrary to good sportsmanship

uRbaN · 13-05-2009 5:40pm

Its probably the correct decision but its so disappointing that we've lost another Lion

13-05-2009 5:48pm

uRbaN wrote: »

Its probably the correct decision but its so disappointing that we've lost another Lion

I think Leamy could be in with a shot,Croft isnt similar to Quinlan at all but Leamy is.

Croft is too lightweight imo.
Gerald Davies described this tour squad as a pack of "beasts" Croft is not a beast.

[Jackass] · 13-05-2009 5:49pm

Misses the first 2 months of next season so? As this doens't run during the off season? Will Lions tour count as off season?

Got off lightly in my opinion. Through away his last chance at a Lions tour through stupidity which is disapointing as he's the quality of player who should be able to enjoy such an occasion, just not the quality of character.

He's disgraced himself and his team anyway. I don't think people should pussy foot around it because he plays for your province or your country, he did it to a fellow country man in a game where there should be an un-written rule of ultimate respect and his actions were the lowest of the low, pure coward material and I personaly would be ashamed to see him represent me in a Irish or Lions jersey.

Micky Dolenz · 13-05-2009 5:54pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Misses the first 2 months of next season so? As this doens't run during the off season? Will Lions tour count as off season?

Got off lightly in my opinion. Through away his last chance at a Lions tour through stupidity which is disapointing as he's the quality of player who should be able to enjoy such an occasion, just not the quality of character.

He's disgraced himself and his team anyway. I don't think people should pussy foot around it because he plays for your province or your country, he did it to a fellow country man in a game where there should be an un-written rule of ultimate respect and his actions were the lowest of the low, pure coward material and I personaly would be ashamed to see him represent me in a Irish or Lions jersey.

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

Fozzie Bear · 13-05-2009 6:01pm

No real surprise I think. I personally don't buy the missed jersey grabbing thing that was spun. For me he was pissed off with the way things were going and in a moment of madness grabbed at Cullen to pull him out of the ruck/way. While it was not too bad in that there was no lasting damage to Cullen it was still a eye/face gouge and I think Alan will be kicking himself tonight that he let his frustrations get the better of him.

You have to feel some pity for him in that he will pay a terrible price for his indiscretion. While anyone else would get just the 12 weeks he is also missing the chance of a life time to tour and one he will never get again being 33 now.

I think even the most ardent staunch Leinster fan will on just a purely rugby level be able to empathise with that.

irishbucsfan · 13-05-2009 6:05pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Misses the first 2 months of next season so? As this doens't run during the off season? Will Lions tour count as off season?

Lions tour must've counted because he's back on the 9th September.

I'm sure they looked at his schedule and decided what weeks he would have been playing and what weeks would be "off-season"

lazybones9 · 13-05-2009 6:14pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Misses the first 2 months of next season so? As this doens't run during the off season? Will Lions tour count as off season?

Got off lightly in my opinion. Through away his last chance at a Lions tour through stupidity which is disapointing as he's the quality of player who should be able to enjoy such an occasion, just not the quality of character.

He's disgraced himself and his team anyway. I don't think people should pussy foot around it because he plays for your province or your country, he did it to a fellow country man in a game where there should be an un-written rule of ultimate respect and his actions were the lowest of the low, pure coward material and I personaly would be ashamed to see him represent me in a Irish or Lions jersey.

Couldn't agree any more.
He's always played to within an inch of the rules but he went way over the line and got caught.

phog · 13-05-2009 6:26pm

He did what he did and he's got punished.

The only sympathy I have for him is because of his age he loses his chance of being a Lion.

Serenity Now! · 13-05-2009 6:34pm

[Jackass] wrote: »

Misses the first 2 months of next season so? As this doens't run during the off season? Will Lions tour count as off season?

Got off lightly in my opinion. Through away his last chance at a Lions tour through stupidity which is disapointing as he's the quality of player who should be able to enjoy such an occasion, just not the quality of character.

He's disgraced himself and his team anyway. I don't think people should pussy foot around it because he plays for your province or your country, he did it to a fellow country man in a game where there should be an un-written rule of ultimate respect and his actions were the lowest of the low, pure coward material and I personaly would be ashamed to see him represent me in a Irish or Lions jersey.

:rolleyes:
Its always strange the way people can bandy about the 'coward' moniker from behind the safety of anonymity and a firewall.

It doesn't go on-hold during the off-season, by the way. The ban is now in effect, even in the appeal window.
(I'm in agreement with the ban and not surprised either)

MG · 13-05-2009 6:36pm

Very disappointed with result but not unexpected given the hysteria around it. Not sure if the ERC are going to release a fuller statement on the issue than currently on the website. No mention of accidental which is disappointing and indeed puzzling, given the amount of evidence to show it was not deliberate and that it is partially implied in the verdict. Other verdicts such as for Best and Corry have at least exonerated the "honour" of the player by explicitly stating that it was not intentional. Very strange they didn't do it here. No word on the evidence from Quinlan either. Appeal on the way I hope, but unlikely to be reduced sufficiently I suppose.

LostinBlanch · 13-05-2009 6:37pm

He got off lightly in my opinion. I was thinking he'd at least get the same as Best got.

Well he's got plenty of time to regret it.

danthefan · 13-05-2009 6:37pm

While it is unfortunate for Quinlan, I find it hard to have sympathy. Contact with the eyes is something that has to be stamped out of the game and being harsh on those found guilty of it is the only way to do it really imo.

thegen · 13-05-2009 6:45pm

I am really dissapointed for Quinny, but the evidence was overwhelming. He stepped over the line and was caught. No place for gouging in Rugby.

Stealdo · 13-05-2009 6:54pm

MG wrote: »

Very disappointed with result but not unexpected given the hysteria around it. Not sure if the ERC are going to release a fuller statement on the issue than currently on the website. No mention of accidental which is disappointing and indeed puzzling, given the amount of evidence to show it was not deliberate and that it is partially implied in the verdict. Other verdicts such as for Best and Corry have at least exonerated the "honour" of the player by explicitly stating that it was not intentional. Very strange they didn't do it here. No word on the evidence from Quinlan either. Appeal on the way I hope, but unlikely to be reduced sufficiently I suppose.

Totally disagree with you there - what evidence is there that it was accidental? Only Quinlan's statement and couple of opinions of other players. All of the actual evidence (i.e. the video) suggest that it was deliberate, or at least reckless. (i.e. he was on his feet, with a clear view of where he was putting his hands, and there was nothing else he could have been trying to grab at).

He deserves his ban and in relation to the incidents you mention he probably got off lightly. If he had done this last year for instance there's a pretty good chance he wouldn't have been included in the tour, so I also disagree that timing is unfortunate.

anonymous_joe · 13-05-2009 7:03pm

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

In fairness, Sexton's gotten plenty of abuse for shouting at O'Gara and kicking Mafi, and various people on various boards have called for Munster players to cripple him next time they play. If a Leinster forward had gouged a Munster player I'm sure that a few Leinster fans would try and defend him against all evidence and Munster fans would call him a disgrace.

Serenity Now! wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Its always strange the way people can bandy about the 'coward' moniker from behind the safety of anonymity and a firewall.

Dude, I agree with you saying that it's easy, and no-one will deny that it is, but allow me to make a response of sorts: I'm sure if a normal person went up to Alan Quinlan and called him a cheating, cowardly cúnt, they might get a dig or something relatively harmless if painful.

However, while that might be fairer 'to say it to his face' or whatever, well, he'll probably never even read the comment, and even if he does, what can he say? 'You wouldn't say that to his face' is a threat. There is a basic rule of justice in this country that you're innocent until proven guilty. Quinlan's been found guilty. I'm going to be extraordinarily generous and say, I still don't know for certain if he is guilty. But, and there is a but, if I was in a ruck, and I gouged you, while you were trapped and couldn't move, it would be a cowardly thing to do.

If it was deliberate, and only Quinlan knows that for definite, then it is the act of a vicious person. At least a vicious person in terms of sport, many people turn into a different person on a sports pitch. A deliberate gouge is a cowardly, nasty thing to do. It happens all the time at most levels, and that's not an excuse.

I won't condemn Quinlan, nor will I make judgements about him as a person, because I don't know him, but I'll say this much - I sympathise with him in missing out on the Lions tour. He's been a good player for Munster for many years, and as his career draws to a close it would have been a nice recognition of his hardwork. I've watched him play over the years, and he's well known for being one of those guys who constantly acts on the very edges of the law, and lives by the mantra 'it's only a crime if you're caught.' Such players are important in rugby. Munster fans love him, because, after all, he's helped them win tournaments. But he's in a situation where his hand has encountered another player's eye. An accidental gouge is now a serious offence, and he's been punished, neither harshly nor leniently, but by the book. He has the misfortune to be used as an example.

And while I do sympathise for those reasons, I can't disagree with the verdict. There's a victim to this as well, he's not been banned to get Croft in, he's been banned for gouging Leo Cullen. If an appeal vindicates Quinlan, I will accept that he didn't mean it. If he's not vindicated, we'll all have to accept the possibility that he deliberately attempted to gouge the eye of another person.

[Jackass] · 13-05-2009 7:06pm

Serenity Now! wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Its always strange the way people can bandy about the 'coward' moniker from behind the safety of anonymity and a firewall.

What's this supposed to mean? That in the real world I wouldn't say or think that he's a coward for what he did? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Do you think he's a coward? Or do you think he's a big brave man for sticking his fingers in a mans eyes abd gouging while the mans back turned to him with the frame of Paul O'Connell wrapped around him?

Yes I'm a 12 year old scranny geek infront of my super computer. Thank god for the invent of teh internets and firewalls to mock people from the safety of my own home...

Let's not measure mickeys here lad, my point stands and it's a bloody valid one - fire wall or no fire wall.

thegen · 13-05-2009 7:09pm

Lads, we all know Quinny has played on the the edge all of his career.
The following is an e-mail that was doing the round among Munster Fans with regards to his future blog when on tour. So lets not have any high horses being climbed on her.

Subject: LIONS.

My Tour Diary by Alan Quinlan
Played first test. Managed to successfully goad the South Africans to attack me en masse. 6 sent off. Afterwards gave Schalk Berger back his jock-strap. Pilfering it in a ruck was what kicked it all off. What larks! He too it in good spirit, really, and it only took fourteen security guards to hold him back. Roll on next week, when I hope to bring home someone's ear as a nice souvenir of my time here.

Quinlan Hearing

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