Criminal Justice Bill (Misc) 2009

Rew

The new legislation that effect Firearms and Airsoft has been published, please see the attached.

I haven't had time to digest the details yet.

deepimpact

Shooting forum has more on it.

Practical pistol banned.

No mention of airsoft, but I didn't read it fully.

Rew

Loads about Airsoft but its not called "Airsoft".

Go straight to page 27 for Airsoft related changes.

deepimpact

Cr*p, sorry, brief run through in work. Thanks Rew

o1s1n

Bye bye importation (and possibly personal sales?)

9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement
of section 35 of the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his pos- 25
session for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms.

gandalf

o1s1n wrote: »

Bye bye importation (and possibly personal sales?)

9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement
of section 35 of the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his pos- 25
session for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms.

I wonder does that also cover parts, mags etc as well?

TBH it reads as we expected it to.

Puding

have to agree gandalf, not far off what we where expecting

i would imagine the definition or a realistic imitation firearm and what parts are covered by this description to follow, more than likely i can see it falling like in the UK as rif , does it look real work device and could it be mistaken for one

Rew

I cant be sure but it reads to me like you need the auth of a Superindentant to have an Airsoft Device?

deepimpact

I think that's under the section for sites. I'm not sure though. It read to me like that aswell

<edit> looks like clarification is needed
9B.—(1) The Superintendent of any district
may authorise in writing the possession, use or car30
riage of realistic imitation firearms in that district
at a specified location during such period, not
exceeding one year, as may be specified in the
authorisation.

Puding

I cant be sure but it reads to me like you need the auth of a Superindentant to have an Airsoft Device?

i would say so , i can see them adding a new classification onto the firearms dealers license going my this bit,

is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms

at the moment you have full fire arms dealers and ammunition dealers, can see them adding the 3rd category to the existing system that is already in place

o1s1n

I had a scan through it myself and can't see anything about authorisation for owning devices.

The only limit I found was a prohibition of sales to under 16s and a dealer restriction to anyone under 21.

Edit - Just after reading 9B again. Originally I thought it was aimed at site owners. Not so sure now.

gandalf

o1s1n wrote: »

Edit - Just after reading 9B again. Originally I thought it was aimed at site owners. Not so sure now.

Yep 9b is very vague. My assumption is it is aimed at site owners but it needs to be clarified properly as I can see an over zealous Garda applying it to all areas.

Stercus Accidit

9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement
of section 35 of the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his pos- 25
session for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms.


I need a licence to repair my equipment? Test my equipment?!

Ghostwarrior

Im No Solicitor but i've read enough of military law to understand this, the quoted element seems to be the guts of what would affect us... its from page 26 to 32 ish

The long and short is you have to be a registered retailer to sell, import, repair and display Airsoft guns (RIF's\Real Imitation Firearms) Also that RIF's can be sold to people as young as 16 (fayer, feel free to clarify), and that if your caught with an RIF in your possesion and have no Explanation as to why then you can be charged and fined... a lot

It also states that we can seek the approval of the local super in writing for the possesssion of RIF's that will last us up to one year

Theres also a mention of something that would affect Sites, im not too sure of the implications here.

35.—The Act of 1990 is amended by the insertion of the following
sections after section 9 (as amended by section 34 of this Act):
“Possession of a realistic imitation firearm in a public place.

9A.—(1) Where a person, without lawful authority
or reasonable excuse (the onus of proving

5 which shall lie on him or her), has a realistic imitation
firearm with him or her in any public place,
that person shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this
section shall be liable:

10 (i) on summary conviction to a fine not
exceeding \5,000 or to imprisonment
for a term not exceeding twelve
months or to both, or

(ii) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or
to imprisonment for a term not
exceeding five years or to both.

(3) In this section “public place” includes any
highway and any other premises or place to which
at the material time the public have or are permitted
to have access, whether on payment or otherwise,
and includes any club premises and any train,
vessel or vehicle used for the carriage of persons
for reward.

(4) In this section and in sections 9B to 9G
“realistic imitation firearm” means a device that
appears to the ordinary observer so realistic as to
make it indistinguishable from a firearm.
Authorisation of use of realistic imitation firearms at
specified venues,theatres, etc.

9B.—(1) The Superintendent of any district
may authorise in writing the possession, use or car30
riage of realistic imitation firearms in that district
at a specified location during such period, not
exceeding one year, as may be specified in the
authorisation.

(2) A Superintendent shall not grant an author35
isation under this section unless he or she is satisfied
having regard to all the circumstances
(including the provision made or to be made for
the storage of realistic imitation firearms to which
the authorisation (if granted) would relate and the
supervision of their use) that the possession, use or
carriage, as the case may be, of realistic imitation
firearms in pursuance of the authorisation will not
endanger the public safety or the peace.

(3) Where it is proposed to grant an authorisation
under this section in respect of a specified
location, the authorisation shall be granted to the
person in charge of the specified location and
where there is a contravention of a condition
imposed in relation to the grant of such an authorisation
and the contravention is proved to have
been committed with the consent or approval of
or to have been facilitated by any neglect on the
part of the person to whom the authorisation is

27
New sections 9A to
9H of Act of 1990.
granted, that person shall be guilty of an offence
under this Act.

(4) A Superintendent may impose in relation to
the grant of an authorisation under this section
such conditions (if any) as he considers necessary
to prevent danger to the public and, where a condition
is imposed, it shall be specified in the authorisation.

(5) An authorisation under this section may be
revoked at any time by the Superintendent of the
District in which it is granted.

(6) A person who contravenes a condition
imposed in relation to the grant of an authorisation
under this section shall be guilty of an
offence and shall be liable on summary conviction
to a fine of up to \5,000 or up to 12 months
imprisonment.Register of dealers in realistic imitation firearms to be kept.

9C.—(1) The Minister shall cause a register of
dealers in realistic imitation firearms to be established
and kept.

(2) Any person who—

(a) applies, in accordance with the provisions
of this section, to be registered
in the register of dealers in realistic
imitation firearms,

(b) pays the fee, if any, prescribed by regulations
made by the Minister under this
section, and

(c) satisfies the Minister that he or she is
immediately about to carry on business
as a dealer in realistic imitation firearms
in premises suitable for that
business,
may be registered in such register, but when considering
any such application for registration the
Minister shall have regard to the character of the
applicant, and generally to the public safety and
the preservation of the peace.

(3) The registration of a person in the register
of dealers in realistic imitation firearms shall continue
in force for a period of 3 years from the date
of the registration, unless previously revoked and,
if renewed, for a further period of 3 years from
the expiration of that period or, as the case may
be, of any subsequent such period for which the
registration was renewed.

(4) Every registered dealer in realistic imitation
firearms shall be entitled to renew his or her registration
in the register of dealers in realistic imitation
firearms at any time within one month
before the expiration of his existing registration or
renewal on application therefor in accordance with
the provisions of this section and payment of the
fee, if any, prescribed by regulations made by the
Minister under this section.

(5) Every application for registration in the
register of dealers in realistic imitation firearms or
for renewal of such registration shall be made to
the Minister in the form and manner prescribed
by regulations made by the Minister under this
section and shall contain the prescribed particulars
(if any) so prescribed.

(6) Every person registered in the register of
dealers in realistic imitation firearms shall be
entitled on such registration and on every renewal
thereof to obtain from the Minister a certificate in
writing of such registration or renewal.

(7) An application for registration in the register
of dealers in realistic firearms dealers or for
renewal of such registration shall be refused if
granting it would, in the opinion of the Minister,
prejudice public safety or security.

(8) The Minister, after consultation with the
Commissioner, may by regulations specify minimum
standards to be complied with in relation to
premises in which a dealer in realistic imitation
firearms carries on business or proposes to do so.

(9) The minimum standards shall be determined
by reference to—
(a) the security of the premises,
(b) the location of the premises,3
(c) their safety,
(d) their standard of construction,
(e) window displays, and
(f) types of merchandise,
and having regard to their use for, as the case may
be, the manufacture, repair, testing or sale of imitation
firearms.

(10) Applicants for registration or renewal shall
satisfy the Minister that their premises comply
with the minimum standards specified in any
regulations under subsection (8) of this section.

(11) Without prejudice to subsection (2) of this
section, the following persons are declared to be
disentitled to be registered in the register of
dealers in realistic imitation firearms:

(a) a person under the age of 21 years;
(b) a person of unsound mind;


(c) a person who has been sentenced to
imprisonment for an offence under the
Firearms Acts 1925 to 2007, the
Offences Against the State Acts 1939
to 1998 or the Criminal Justice
(Terrorist Offences) Act 2005;

(d) a person who is bound by a recognisance
to keep the peace or be of good
behaviour, a condition of which is that
the person shall not possess, use or
carry a firearm or ammunition.

(12) Every regulation made under this section
shall be laid before each House of the Oireachtas
as soon as may be after it is made and, if a resolution
annulling the regulation is passed by either
such House within the next 21 days on which that
House sits after the regulation is laid before it, the
regulation shall be annulled accordingly but without
prejudice to anything previously done
thereunder.

Restrictions on import, manufacture and sale of realistic
imitation firearms.

9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement
of section 35 of the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his possession
for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms.

(2) On and after the date of commencement of 30
section 35 of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous
Provisions) Act 2009 it is an offence for a person
to sell a realistic imitation firearm to a person
under the age of 16 years.

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this
section shall be liable:

(a) on summary conviction to a fine not
exceeding \5,000 or to imprisonment
for a term not exceeding twelve
months or both, or

(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or
to imprisonment for a term not
exceeding five years or both.
Removal of names from
register of dealers in
realistic imitation firearms.

9E.—(1) The Minister may at the request of
any person who is registered in the register of
dealers in realistic imitation firearms remove the
name of such person from the register.

(2) If and when the Minister is satisfied that
any person who is registered in the register of
dealers in realistic imitation firearms—

(a) no longer carries on business as a dealer
in realistic imitation firearms, or
(b) no longer has a place of business as such
dealer in realistic imitation firearms in
the State, or
(c) cannot any longer be permitted to carry
on such business without danger to the
public safety or to the peace, or
(d) has become a person who is declared
under section 9C(11) of this Act to be
disentitled to be registered in the register
of dealers in realistic imitation
firearms,the Minister may remove the name of such person
from the register.

(3) A person whose name is removed under
15 this section from the register of dealers in realistic
imitation firearms shall, on such removal, forthwith
deliver up to the Minister the person’s certificate
of registration or renewal.

(4) A person who contravenes subsection (3) of
20 this section is guilty of an offence and on summary
conviction is liable to a fine not exceeding \3,000.
Inspection of stock of dealer in realistic imitation
firearms.

9F.—(1) Any member of the Garda Sı´ocha´na
may at all reasonable times enter the premises of
any registered dealer in realistic imitation firearms
and there inspect any imitation firearms and any
materials used in the manufacture, repair or test
thereof found on such premises.

(2) Every person who shall obstruct or impede
any member of the Garda Sı´ocha´na in the exercise
30 of any of the powers conferred on him by this
section shall be guilty of an offence under this
section and shall be liable on summary conviction
thereof to a fine not exceeding \1,000 or imprisonment
for a term not exceeding 6 months or both.
Power by order to restrict sale of
certain realistic imitation
firearms from specified date.

35 9G.—(1) Notwithstanding section 9D(1), the
Minister may, if he or she considers that realistic
imitation firearms represent a threat to public
safety and security, and following consultation
with the Commissioner, by order set a date or
dates after which it is an offence for a person to
import, manufacture, sell, repair, test, expose for
sale or have in his or her possession for sale, repair
or testing by way of trade or business any realistic
imitation firearm or to do any one or more of the
foregoing as may be specified in the order.

(2) Any order made under this section shall be
laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon
as may be after it is made and, if a resolution
annulling the order is passed by either such House
within the next 21 days on which that House sits
after the order is laid before it, the order shall be
annulled accordingly but without prejudice to anything
previously done thereunder.

Amendment to
section 16 of Act of
1990.

(3) A person guilty of an offence under this
section shall be liable:
(a) on summary conviction to a fine not
exceeding \5,000 or to imprisonment
for a term not exceeding twelve
months or both, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or
to imprisonment for a term not
exceeding five years or both.
Power by order to require certain descriptions of
imitation firearms to conform to certain specifications.

9H.—(1) The Minister may, if he or she considers
that certain imitation firearms represent a
threat to public safety and security, and following
consultation with the Commissioner, by order set
a date or dates after which it is an offence for a
person to import, manufacture, sell, repair, test,
expose for sale or have in his or her possession for
sale, repair or testing by way of trade or business
certain descriptions of imitation firearms unless
the imitation firearms conform to certain specifications
set out in the order.

(2) In this section “imitation firearm” means
anything which is not a firearm but has the appearance
of being a firearm.

(3) Any order made under this section shall be
laid before each House of the Oireachtas as soon
as may be after it is made and, if a resolution
annulling the order is passed by either such House
within the next 21 days on which that House sits
after the order is laid before it, the order shall be
annulled accordingly but without prejudice to anything
previously done thereunder.

(4) A person guilty of an offence under this
section shall be liable:
(a) on summary conviction to a fine not
exceeding \5,000 or to imprisonment
for a term not exceeding twelve
months or both, or
(b) on conviction on indictment, to a fine or
to imprisonment for a term not
exceeding five years or both.”.

36.—Section 16 of the Act of 1990 is amended by the substitution
for that section of the following:
“Power of search without warrant.

16.—(1) If a member of the Garda Sı´ocha´na
suspects with reasonable cause that a person has
with him or her in any public place (within the
meaning of section 9(8)) any article in contravention
of section 9 or 9A (inserted by section 35
of the Criminal Justice (Miscellaneous Provisions)
Act 2009), he may:

(a) search the person and, if he or she considers
it necessary for that purpose,

detain the person for such time as is
reasonably necessary for carrying out
the search,
(b) search any vehicle, vessel or aircraft in
which he or she suspects that such
article may be found and for the purpose
of carrying out the search may, if
he or she thinks fit, require the person
who for the time being is in possession
or control of such vehicle, vessel or aircraft
to bring it to a stop and when
stopped to refrain from moving it, or
in case such vehicle, vessel or aircraft
is already stationary, to refrain from
moving it, or

(c) seize and detain anything found in the
course of a search under this section
that appears to him or her to be something
that might be required as evidence
in proceedings for an offence
under section 9 or 9A.

(2) Nothing in this section shall operate to
prejudice any powers to search, seize or detain
property that may be exercisable by a member of
25 the Garda Sı´ocha´na apart from this section.”.

fayer

The committee is examining the bill at the moment and will have feedback later tonight, much of it is as was put forward by the DoJ in our meetings.

We will be hopefully meeting with the Department in the very near future for a full brief on implications for the sport.

Steve

gandalf

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

I need a licence to repair my equipment? Test my equipment?!

My reading of that is covering people who are repairing/upgrading equipment as a business. It doesn't cover repairing personal stuff at all.

Stercus Accidit

gandalf wrote: »

My reading of that is covering people who are repairing/upgrading equipment as a business. It doesn't cover repairing personal stuff at all.

The 'or' mentioned means it does cover individuals, at least as I read it.


9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement
of section 35 of the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his pos- 25
session for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms.

Shiva

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

The 'or' mentioned means it does cover individuals, at least as I read it.


9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement
of section 35 of the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his pos- 25
session for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms.

The "by way of trade or business" is the important distinction.

gandalf

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

The 'or' mentioned means it does cover individuals, at least as I read it.


9D.—(1) On and after the date of commencement
of section 35 of the Criminal Justice
(Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2009 it is an
offence for any person to import, manufacture,
sell, repair, test, expose for sale, or have in his pos- 25
session for sale, repair or test by way of trade or
business, any realistic imitation firearm unless
such person is registered in the register of dealers
in realistic imitation firearms.

The part in bold would suggest to me you have to be set up as a business to be effected but there is a lot in this that looks very ambiguous.

Do we are owners of equipment need to get clearance from a Garda Superintendent or not? Is that provision held just for sites and businesses?

Is importation of parts and accessories covered and restricted under these provisions?

Do we have to have proof with us that we are skirmishing at an authorised site in case we are pulled over by the authorities?

Its very vague and I am very interested to see what clarifications come out of the IAA meeting with the DoJ.

Stercus Accidit

Shiva wrote: »

The "by way of trade or business" is the important distinction.

But that is mentioned after the 'or' implying the above mentioned act of repair etc. is not as a business. Its the wording that makes it appear so, at least with pedantic scrutiny. It does appear to mean it as you say though.

Rew

Its also woth noting that this is not law yet and may change before it is law.

Gatling

does this mean we could loose our adverts on here ,

o1s1n

Gatling wrote: »

does this mean we could loose our adverts on here ,

Was the first thing that came into my head alright. We'll have to wait for the outcome of the discussion with the DOJ and go from there.

Brabazone

Maybe I am reading this wrong but are we going to have to register with the super if we want to be able to transport our AEGs to play at a Skirmish site.

In the same breath it also says that we are registering with the super in our district to transport our AEGs is only that district, so I was wondering can we not play outside our own district?.

gandalf

Gatling wrote: »

does this mean we could loose our adverts on here ,

Possibly again its not clear on personal sales. I would err on the side of caution myself and not sell anything on if this became law as worded.

As Rew has said this ain't the law yet. I would suggest we all get our heads together and look at the parts we are not happy with and formulate a list of questions for our local representatives who will and are calling to our doors at this moment to make them aware of this situation.

We can also then send queries to our local TD's. The more mouths making noises at the minister and his advisers the better. This would be something that the Airsoft businesses should do given the current economic situation and the fact they are businesses being directly effected by this.

Shiva

Brabazone wrote: »

Maybe I am reading this wrong but are we going to have to register with the super if we want to be able to transport our AEGs to play at a Skirmish site.

In the same breath it also says that we are registering with the super in our district to transport our AEGs is only that district, so I was wondering can we not play outside our own district?.

Thats the part that would lead me to believe its intended to refer only to sites, and that whole part about authorisation is to stop "illegal" skirmishing.

It will all be clarified and adjusted as neccessary before the bill is enacted into law, I'm sure.

José Alaninho

Rew wrote: »

Its also worth noting that this is not law yet and may change before it is law.

Aye, could get even worse... [/optimism] :rolleyes:

Stercus Accidit

Ok, so what is the date set, if at all, for this to be enacted?

Puding

Aye, could get even worse... [/optimism]

the optimist view is ''IT could get even worse... '' and it could have been, really we just have to wait for the clarification, we can read into thing all we want but until then its a bit up in the air

gerrowadat

Shiva wrote: »

Thats the part that would lead me to believe its intended to refer only to sites, and that whole part about authorisation is to stop "illegal" skirmishing.

It will all be clarified and adjusted as neccessary before the bill is enacted into law, I'm sure.

(speaking strictly for myself)

Page 11 of the memorandum makes it clearer. It reads:

The new section 9B provides for the control of the use of realistic
imitation firearms such as airsoft devices by restricting their use to
places authorised by the local Superintendent- e.g. airsoft venues,
theatres etc.

I reckon it only applies to requiring Superintendant permission to run a site where people walk around with devices in plain sight. I don't see anything about person here, only location. However, IANAL.

Everything will become clear after the IAA talks to the DoJ. It's good that people are voicing their concerns here, though. This, and direct communications with us are what will drive the conversation with the DoJ.

I'd also appeal to people to hold their fire when it comes to the various authorities here. As several people have pointed out, this is still somewhat subject to interpretation, and is not law yet. I'd love to see constructive feedback here, not scaremongering and speculation.

bullets

Im still reading it, or trying, these documents
are next to impossible to figure out....

So now I cant buy anything except from Irish Registered dealers? Its sure gonna suck to be a collector then.

I can only Use airsoft devices on registered/approved sites?
This means its illegal to fire in my own back garden ?????

I cant display my collection.

I can no longer swap/trade/sell/give as a present to
anyone privitely????

saw something about 16j so the sport of paintball is not effected
but airsfoft is still limited to 1j?? or is it?

~B

cpb

Power by order to require certain descriptions of imitation firearms to
conform to certain specifications.

9H.—(1) The Minister may, if he or she considers that certain imitation firearms represent a
threat to public safety and security, and following
consultation with the Commissioner, by order set
a date or dates after which it is an offence for a
person to import, manufacture, sell, repair, test, 15
expose for sale or have in his or her possession for
sale, repair or testing by way of trade or business
certain descriptions of imitation firearms unless
the imitation firearms conform to certain specifications
set out in the order

I think this means there is a possibility of two tone or clear aegs if the Minister so decides at anytime in the future

Spetzcong

I'm not entirely sure what the implications for airsoft are, but I'm reasonably happy with what's been put in that bill. No more ordering from abroad is a shame but I was expecting that, if players have to register with their local super nintendos for permission to have airsoft equipment that would be a bit of a chore, but it really could have been a lot worse, the section where it says about the minister being able to ban the sale of and introduce new laws about making the devices look unrealistic kinda shows where they were probably heading with the legislation before the IAA got in touch with them. Lets just hope that this bill is enough to appease them and we don't all end up with luminous AEGs

ps3man

all we can do is stay optimistic and hope they dont place major restrictions on our sport, illuminous aegs dont sound very appealing

desertstorm

heres hoping they have the smarts to know that two tone or clear aegs would practically kill the sport and namely the tax revenue from lost buisness...

personally i wouldnt mind getting a written letter from my local super, would give me a bit of peace of mind should I ever be stopped at a check point, something official like

i wonder if theyre gna start insisting secure storage like that for real guns before giving you the letter tho? what defines secure storage in their heads like?

kdouglas

Haven't read it all yet, will attempt to do so in a few mins, but most of it seems to be what we expected, how it's executed is the important part.

One personal note; I dont agree with local superintendent authorisation, this can be a major barrier if your local super is anti-gun-shaped-things. Some form of oversight needs to be put in place there.

OzCam

The accompanying memo says that section 9B "provides for the control of [RIFs] by restricting their use to places authorised by the Superintendent, e.g. airsoft venues". One more piece of paper for the sites to get, though probably easier than Planning Permission. Seems pretty clear to me.

9D is a definite personal importation ban.

We'll have to get something clarified about second-hand sales.


It's up to us as a community to behave in a manner that doesn't force the Minister to ban the sport completely (9G) or impose two-tone or transparent guns or orange tips on us (9H).

bullets

desertstorm wrote: »

personally i wouldnt mind getting a written letter from my local super, would give me a bit of peace of mind should I ever be stopped at a check point, something official like

i wonder if theyre gna start insisting secure storage like that for real guns before giving you the letter tho? what defines secure storage in their heads like?

If they go down that road it will be a nightmare.
Secure storage is expensive and having something
bolted to concrete walls and floors......I'd be fecked
with having 35+ devices.

From dealing with my Local Super for licences for Real steel, ammendments that should take less than 5mins to sort out and also letters of permission for different things its a joke.

For personal experiance they've totally ignored letters I've sent, nobody is available when phoneing, and everything in done through "go between" members of the Garda so you dont have direct access or communications with the super. I'm waiting since last June for him to sent me out a letter of permission for something.

And come face to face with total ignorance of the Equipment, The Sport, the reasons why you need things etc etc and have listened to fairy stories where they dont know the law themselves verbally tell you stuff that you
know is complete bull.

If it goes down that route with Airsoft. The Gardai will need to have
a specific member of the force completely trained up and knowledgeable
in the sport and equipment.

One solution would be a collectors & Player licence combined.
Meaning your not limited to having a "seperate licence" for each piece of equipment.
Your not limited to Having to be an acutal skirmisher.
It can include permissions to import.


~B

deepimpact

kdouglas wrote: »

One personal note; I dont agree with local superintendent authorisation, this can be a major barrier if your local super is anti-gun-shaped-things. Some form of oversight needs to be put in place there.

As far as my reading of it goes (and I finally got around to reading it after lunch) it is to do with the sites ie register for use of RIFs at sites at 1 year intervals.

SniperSight

I have to say if the whole personnal importation sticks its complete bullsh*t!!!

There are guns available on lets say WGC that arent available anywhere else and are cheaper with taxes and shipping added on.

On authorisation, (if for personal)thats bull too. I dont see why I should have to get "permission" from someone who probably has next to now idea what the sport is like or about, having never witnessed a skirmish.

What if I'm told "NO". What do I do then?
The whole thing is utter boll*cks!!!
There wasnt much of a problem with the law in the first place, without adding on ridiculous restrictions and rules. I dont agree with the fellings, "as long as we dont have luminous guns or its banned were ok, we expected this" attitude.

The whole thing sickens me!!!
The government should spend its time dealing with the real crime and voilence rather than adversely effecting our organised sport!!

Stercus Accidit

Well the repair thing has me annoyed, I have fixed aegs for people who then gave me a few quid for the trouble. Does that count as business or trade?

Edit: I don't see what its state of repair has to do with being a replica, this shouldn't be included, a replica is a replica regardless of internal function once its not a firearm.

kdouglas

scanlant wrote: »

As far as my reading of it goes (and I finally got around to reading it after lunch) it is to do with the sites ie register for use of RIFs at sites at 1 year intervals.

Yea, I read it as only applying to sites too, but even local super authorisation for sites could be awkward, what if the local super for one of our already established sites decides he doesnt like airsoft? That's it, site gone.
Or what if someone setting up a new site finds a perfect piece of land in a perfect location and has all the boxes ticked, but their local super doesnt like airsoft, that's it, tough. There needs to be something higher than local superintendent only in this case.

GrumPy

So it's a possibility, all my new guns, which have only been skirmished maybe three times since I spent close to a thousand euro buying only recently (including extra mags, bb's, kit bag, masks etc...) will be illegal therefore worthless when I get them back from the cops?! :mad:

Can't help but feel a little ass raped this week so far tbh.

kdouglas

GrumPy wrote: »

So it's a possibility, all my new guns, which have only been skirmished maybe three times since I spent close to a thousand euro buying only recently (including extra mags, bb's, kit bag, masks etc...) will be illegal therefore worthless when I get them back from the cops?! :mad:

Can't help but feel a little ass raped this week so far tbh.

No, that is not the case, nobody is talking about an outright ban, this bill will mainly introduce restrictions on sale and import by the looks of it.

cpb

Like all laws they are painful to read but the memo give a good insight to what is intended. I think (this is my opinion only) RIF= realistic imitation firearm

9a. Must have good cause to be in possession of RIF in public place
9b. Restricts the use of a RIF to authorised venues (authorised by Local Super)
9c. Provides for regulation of Dealers creates register of dealers and minimum standards for their premises
9d. Cannot trade or import RIF unless registered dealer
9e. Lists reasons why one might lose registered dealer status
9f. Gives power to Gardai to inspect stock of dealer
9g. Minister allowed to ban trade of RIF if he wants
9h. Minister allowed to specify that RIF must look a certain way so public wont think it is a firearm

Gardai are alos given the power to search people if they think they are in possession of a RIF in a public Place.

This is what I think the act has in store for us I am open to correction.

deepimpact

kdouglas wrote: »

Yea, I read it as only applying to sites too, but even local super authorisation for sites could be awkward, what if the local super for one of our already established sites decides he doesnt like airsoft? That's it, site gone.
Or what if someone setting up a new site finds a perfect piece of land in a perfect location and has all the boxes ticked, but their local super doesnt like airsoft, that's it, tough. There needs to be something higher than local superintendent only in this case.

Crossed wires, sorry.

What effect will this bill (if enacted) have on criminals? None
What effect will this bill (if enacted) have on law-abiding, tax-paying citizens? Nanny state, here we come

kdouglas

scanlant wrote: »

Crossed wires, sorry.

What effect will this bill (if enacted) have on criminals? None
What effect will this bill (if enacted) have on law-abiding, tax-paying citizens? Nanny state, here we come

The main purpose of introducing controls on airsoft wasnt about criminals, it was primarily to stop the proliferation of devices via gadget shops and the like and also to create an offence for irresponsible/public use.

TheDoc

Where is everyone getting this notion we have to register with supers. I have not seen that mentioned at all. If that is the case there will be war. The swords super is anti gun so ive heard from a number of sources. I was told to **** off when enquiring bout blank firers by a desky. Didnt even see the super. But like i said it isnt mentioned anywhere and it wont be law for ages. Love the over reactions when it comes to this stuff hehe. The only thing giving me the fluster is the no second hand trading. Thats bollox it seems they are considering them in the same breathe as real guns

kevteljeur

Restrictions were always on the cards. I can't see how these proposals are anything other than a good thing, whereby ad-hoc airsofting and 'waving toy guns about on the street' become clearly-defined offenses.

It's a formal recognition.



.

Killinator

kevteljeur wrote: »

I can't see how these proposals are anything other than a good thing,
.

The banning of personal importation would be a pretty bad thing for alot of us, If that is to be implemented

Spetzcong

TheDoc wrote: »

Where is everyone getting this notion we have to register with supers. I have not seen that mentioned at all. If that is the case there will be war. The swords super is anti gun so ive heard from a number of sources. I was told to **** off when enquiring bout blank firers by a desky. Didnt even see the super. But like i said it isnt mentioned anywhere and it wont be law for ages. Love the over reactions when it comes to this stuff hehe. The only thing giving me the fluster is the no second hand trading. Thats bollox it seems they are considering them in the same breathe as real guns

It's not no second hand trading, it's no second hand trading by non registered retailers, if our established retailers decide to trade in second hand AEGs, perhaps with some sort of trade in scheme ala xbox games ect, then we can still see some second hand sales continuing, I'd say adverts is probably fecked though...