Pace for first marathon

sean_84

Hello,

I'm looking for advice on how to decide on pacing for a first marathon. I'm doing Cork in 3 weeks time.

Some background information: my only other recent race is the Ballycotton 10mile this year where i did 69 mins. But i got held up behinds loads of people at the start. My second 5 miles was done in 32 mins, so I think I could have gone quicker than 69...

Anyway this gives me a time of 3:13 according to the Macmillan Calculator. But this seems very ambitious for me. I know people with similar times over 10miles, who have run 3:40...

My training hasn't been the best. I've been running only three times a week. One long run at the weekend, I've done 2 x 18 miles, and 1 x 20 mile. I'm doing one final 20 miler today. These were at about 8min/mile pace and I've always felt comfortable during them but did feel a little stiff the next day. I've done two shorter runs every week, which are sometimes intervals on a track, and sometimes tempo runs. I've also been swimming twice a week. I based this very loosely on the FIRST plan (http://www.furman.edu/first/), but I only have a stop watch so my pace is a bit variable...

I've found the long runs a bit boring to be honest and can't imagine myself wanting to do another marathon too soon, so I'd like to do the best I can in this one

So I should I aim for for sub 3:15, and hope it doesn't all go pear shaped, or be more conservative and go for about 3:30, which I would be quite confident of, based on my long runs.

Thanks,
Sean

P.S. I've read lots of good advice on these forums. It's a great resource, I hope i can give some back

RoyMcC

You sound in good shape Sean (unlike some of us ). I'm sure you'll get plenty of advice but mine is very simple. BE CONSERVATIVE. There's a saying that comes up time after time 'It's not the distance that will kill you but the pace.'

Never mind 3.15, unless you get to 20 miles and it's still on. Aim for a time you are confident that you can achieve and stick to that pace.

And fuel up and hydrate well on the day.

Best of luck, you'll love Cork.

MayoRoadRunner

Hi Sean,

I ran my first marathon last year (Dublin 08) and was in same boat as yourself as regards what pace to set out on the day. Ran a couple of races before the marathon. 5 miler in 30.14 and 10 miler in 1.07 so fairly similar times to yourself. I missed training for the full month of August due to shin splints. Anyways ran Dublin in 3.10 and was delighted with that. I did find it very hard going though so be mentally prepared for the last 6 miles.
I'd advise you to set off at 7.30 pace and see how you are at the 20 mile mark. Biggest risk setting off at 7.00 pace is that you blow up at 20 and take an hour to do the last 6.
Good luck with it. You say you won't do one again anytime soon but wait til you cross that finish line and then come back here and tell me that

RoyMcC

MayoRoadRunner wrote: »

I'd advise you to set off at 7.30 pace and see how you are at the 20 mile mark. Biggest risk setting off at 7.00 pace is that you blow up at 20 and take an hour to do the last 6.

Or slower than that. If your long runs have been at 8m/m then I'd be wary of setting off any quicker than that.

(Incidentally the McMillan calculator thingy has me down as a 4-hour marathoner based on my 10k and HM times but the reality was in fact a 4.47, so don't raise your sights so high you crash and burn, as MRR says).

asimonov

Hi Sean,

i'd think about starting slower than 7:30. I did a 3:22 as my first off a similar 10 mile time to yours. This would be my approach but the usually caveats apply.....

The great unknown is the pace you can maintain over the last 6.2 miles. The aim of your first 20 miles is really to get you to the last stage within your target time zones but with a strong enough platform to finish well.

I think the best way to do this is to run the first half comfortably (maybe average 8min miles or just under) - you really just want to come off that section feeling positive and relaxed. The first half is your time to enjoy the occasion, the crowds and have a chat with those about you. If you find long runs boring use this stage to distract yourself from the run - you'll be concentrating enough later!

Between 13 and 20, depending on how you feel, you have the option of building the pace to 7:20 - 7:30 per mile or holding your just sub-8 minute mile pace. This is a time when you need to concentrate on the run and not let your pace drift one way or the other.

From 20 miles onwards (the last 10k) give it what you got left, taking confidence from the fact you had the discipline to preserve energy at the start - but leaving nothing in the tank at the finish. All going well, you'll be going forward as others who started quicker come back to you. Being able to pass others at this stage should help drive you on to the end. This kind of a structure should ensure you post a good time, enjoy the run upto 20 miles or so and you don't blow up spectacularly near the end.

The alternative (and possibly more heroic way) is to try to get to 20 miles at 3:10 - 3:!5 marathon pace, grit your teeth and hang on the best you can for the last 6.2. I'm not sure if this approach will be faster but you'll probably end up with a much more entertaining marathon story

Best of luck with it.....

trotter_inc

Cork is my first marathon too. I did Ballycotton in 72 mins but since then I have been training quite a lot.

I current run 20 miles in approx 2 hours 30 mins, if I keep the same pace for the final 6 miles I'm hoping to run the marathon in under 3 hours 20 mins, but that's a little optimistic

Really looking forward to the race, taper will be hard especially with the nice weather we're having, hopefully it won't be as nice the morning of the marathon though.

eliwallach

sean_84 wrote: »

Hello,

So I should I aim for for sub 3:15, and hope it doesn't all go pear shaped, or be more conservative and go for about 3:30, which I would be quite confident of, based on my long runs.

My humble advice would be to err on the side of conservatism.
This is your first marathon and as Asimonov said, the great unknown will be the final 6 or 7 miles, so be in a position to finish "comfortably" in 3:30 (fantastic debut time BTW) rather than aiming for 3:15 / 3:10 and then imploding in the final few miles and crossing the finish line (possibly walking but certainly disillusioned) in a time outside 3:30!
Remember to factor in the fact that it will be warm/hot on June 1st.
Good luck on the day and do report back with your decision and your race.

sean_84

Thanks for all the replys and advice.

RoyMcC wrote: »

BE CONSERVATIVE. There's a saying that comes up time after time 'It's not the distance that will kill you but the pace.'

This sounds like the best and most sensible advice and I hope I can follow it. I have a habit of starting at a ridiculous pace, and then the adrenaline runs out...

RoyMcC wrote: »

Best of luck, you'll love Cork.

Thanks, I've been here 4 years and it's not a bad spot

MayoRoadRunner wrote: »

I ran my first marathon last year (Dublin 08) and was in same boat as yourself as regards what pace to set out on the day. Ran a couple of races before the marathon. 5 miler in 30.14 and 10 miler in 1.07 so fairly similar times to yourself. I missed training for the full month of August due to shin splints. Anyways ran Dublin in 3.10 and was delighted with that. I did find it very hard going though so be mentally prepared for the last 6 miles.

That's a really impressive time based on your training. I don't think I'm confident enough to aim for that.

asimonov wrote: »

Between 13 and 20, depending on how you feel, you have the option of building the pace to 7:20 - 7:30 per mile or holding your just sub-8 minute mile pace. This is a time when you need to concentrate on the run and not let your pace drift one way or the other.

I don't have a GPS watch thingy, so judging pace is a bit difficult. What do other people do? Do you just measure the time between mile markers? For training I've just done the long runs at a pace that seemed easy, and then used mapmyrun to find the distance. My pace has been consitently 8min/mile on average.

asimonov wrote: »

The alternative (and possibly more heroic way) is to try to get to 20 miles at 3:10 - 3:!5 marathon pace, grit your teeth and hang on the best you can for the last 6.2. I'm not sure if this approach will be faster but you'll probably end up with a much more entertaining marathon story

I took the heroic/foolish option last year in the 15mile Cork to Cobh race. I bought runners a month before the race and I did 4 runs with the longest being 8 miles. I managed to finish the race but after mile 10 it was all a blur of people passing me, and a hill of Himalayan proportions just before Cobh town. I stayed standing up on the train back to Cork; I thought that if I sat down I'd never be able to straighten my legs again. I had to go down stairs backwards for a week afterwards. And I'm probably very lucky that I didn't injure myself I'll be back there this year, and a little better prepared

trotter_inc wrote: »

Cork is my first marathon too. I did Ballycotton in 72 mins but since then I have been training quite a lot.

I current run 20 miles in approx 2 hours 30 mins, if I keep the same pace for the final 6 miles I'm hoping to run the marathon in under 3 hours 20 mins, but that's a little optimistic

Really looking forward to the race, taper will be hard especially with the nice weather we're having, hopefully it won't be as nice the morning of the marathon though.

I don't think you're being too optimistic at all. You should have confidence in your training. I know what you mean about wanting to run on days like this, but to be honest, I'm really looking forward to taking a week or two with no running at all.

sean_84

eliwallach wrote: »

My humble advice would be to err on the side of conservatism.
This is your first marathon and as Asimonov said, the great unknown will be the final 6 or 7 miles, so be in a position to finish "comfortably" in 3:30 (fantastic debut time BTW) rather than aiming for 3:15 / 3:10 and then imploding in the final few miles and crossing the finish line (possibly walking but certainly disillusioned) in a time outside 3:30!
Remember to factor in the fact that it will be warm/hot on June 1st.
Good luck on the day and do report back with your decision and your race.

I think the advice or running at a very comfortable pace for the first half is good. I might try to increase it a little bit then, but you're right about the weather. I noticed there was quite a strong wind yesterday and it has a definite effect.

A good friend of mine has a time of 3:40 so I'll be happy with anything below that. And the more below that, the happier I'll be :pac:

Lila

I don't have a GPS watch thingy, so judging pace is a bit difficult. What do other people do? Do you just measure the time between mile markers?

A pace wristband can be handy in this case. I don't know about you but my ability to do simple maths goes out the window after 18miles. (That and the ability to chew!)

There are loads of them online but here's one - www.marathonguide.com/fitnesscalcs/PaceBandCreator.cfm

Just enter your target time (maybe select a few), print it out and trim to wrist size. Cover it with cellotape to prevent it coming off as you sweat and you're good to go.

Racing Flat

My first instinct was that 7.30 pace shouldn't be too unreasonable for you. But it depends on the amount and quality of training done. I ran 2 10miles, 67.30 and 68.30 and a half marathon in 90.59 before my first marathon, so I set out for 3.10 but ended up at 3.15 or 7.26 pace, with splits of 95, 100, so lost 5 mins in the second half and mainly on miles 23,24,25.

I think when it's your first marathon, you don't want to be disappointed with your time. So what time would you be disappointed with? If it's 3.30, maybe you should err on the side of caution so that worst case scenario you still get this. If you target too high you might blow up and lose 30mins in the last 6 miles. Therefore, maybe setting out at 3.20 pace might be a good option, if you feel okay you might pick it up second half.

dna_leri

sean_84 wrote: »

.

A good friend of mine has a time of 3:40 so I'll be happy with anything below that. And the more below that, the happier I'll be :pac:

I think you have answered the question yourself here. If you will be happy with anything below 3:40, aim for 3:30.

Also I don't think you should worry about pacing every mile just note a few key points like half-way, 20 miles etc and adjust if needed.

I'm no expert but I think you'll enjoy it better this way.

sean_84

Lila wrote: »

A pace wristband can be handy in this case. I don't know about you but my ability to do simple maths goes out the window after 18miles. (That and the ability to chew!)

There are loads of them online but here's one - www.marathonguide.com/fitnesscalcs/PaceBandCreator.cfm

Just enter your target time (maybe select a few), print it out and trim to wrist size. Cover it with cellotape to prevent it coming off as you sweat and you're good to go.

Thanks!

Racing Flat wrote: »

My first instinct was that 7.30 pace shouldn't be too unreasonable for you. But it depends on the amount and quality of training done.

I think the amount of training I've done is on the low side, with a max of 40 miles a week... But I guess it's too late to change that now.

dna_leri wrote: »

I think you have answered the question yourself here. If you will be happy with anything below 3:40, aim for 3:30.

Also I don't think you should worry about pacing every mile just note a few key points like half-way, 20 miles etc and adjust if needed.

I'm no expert but I think you'll enjoy it better this way.

I think you're right

But after reading the thread about how any average runner can do 2:30, and ignoring the part about years of work, I think 5:45min/mile is the way to go :pac:
(luckily I live near the 2 mile marker)

chinguetti

On the pacing issue, i'll would be of the theory that its better to start slow and would go with dna_leir (sorry if name is spelt wrong) to use miles markers like 5, 10, 15 and 20 as a guideline.

Did the Connemara Half and as i'm new to all this running lark, stayed behind a wall of people for the first 3 miles so that i wouldn't go too fast at the start. Worked quite well and will do the same in Cork.

Pacing guides are good but most of the ones i've seen just break down the time you are after by dividing by 26.2. Do anyone run constant times for every mile of the 26?

Happy pacing;)

Krusty_Clown

I'd go with Asimonov's point of view. Two important elements for your first marathon are being relaxed and confident, rather than being worried about your strategy. So if you're used to running 8m/m for 20 miles, choose that pace or close to it (7:50m/m?), for the first 20 miles, and then adjust based on how you feel. That would put you on for a sub 3:25, and better, if you still feel good after the first 20.

sean_84

Hi,

In the end I just ran at whatever pace felt maintainable. If anyone else is in Cork today, they'll know that the weather was sweltering. None of my trainiing was done in that kind of heat.

Anyway, I crossed the line with a time of 3:21:30 according to my watch, and I'm very pleased with that

If anyone's interested I took split times of each mile. I started a bit slow, but after that it was fairly consistent. I noticed after the half way point very few people passed me, so I think a lot of people must have started a bit quick. The straght road was a killer, there was a headwind the whole way. I still managed to pass a few people and they were saying well done to me. I felt a bit guilty for passing them...

I attempted to put the foot down with a mile to go, but to save 20 seconds I don't think it was worth it, I was in bits crossing the line, and the guy with the loudspeaker didn't even say my name :P

 1  8:53
 2  8:06
 3  8:00
 4  7:59
 5  7:28
 6  7:28
 7  7:28
 8  8:12
 9  7:27
10  7:28
11  7:30
12  7:31
13  7:37
14  7:38
15  7:30
16  7:39
17  7:37
18  7:37
19  7:37
20  7:37
21  7:59
22  7:36
23  7:48
24  7:37
25  7:38
26  7:11
.2  1:25

Looking forward to doing as little as possible for the next week. Think I'll stick to the shorter stuff for the forseeable future too

Thanks for the advice from everyone.

osnola ibax

Well done mate, cracking run! That will be me some day.

Racing Flat

Splits look great, that's the way to run a marathon, good man. Fairly impressive that you didn't slow in the last few miles, you might be a natural marathoner .

Well done. You'll never run your first marathon again, so enjoy the aftermath.

asimonov

Great splits, I can't believe you ran miles 16-20 bang on 7:37's, you must have been totally in the zone! Congratulations.

colblimp

What a great race! You started out nice and easy until you got clear of the crowds and then nailed it! Your splits from mile 17 - 20 are just awesome - well done!

The straight road was just a nightmare, that was some strong wind!

sean_84

Racing Flat wrote: »

Splits look great, that's the way to run a marathon, good man. Fairly impressive that you didn't slow in the last few miles, you might be a natural marathoner .

Don't tell me that, I'll want to do another one...

Racing Flat wrote: »

Well done. You'll never run your first marathon again, so enjoy the aftermath.

If by "enjoy the aftermath" you meant "go to a pub", then that's what I did :pac:

asimonov wrote: »

Great splits, I can't believe you ran miles 16-20 bang on 7:37's, you must have been totally in the zone! Congratulations.

It was just a fluke, and I was very suprised too, especially as there's a few hills in that section.

Gringo78

sean_84 wrote: »

Anyway, I crossed the line with a time of 3:21:30 according to my watch, and I'm very pleased with that

Fantastic running, well done. Well impressed that you increased the pace in the second half and sustained especially as so many people dropped off (myself included)