Sexton and the Leinster backline

wixfjord

Just wanted to get the forums views on this. From my point of view, when sexton has been playing this year, Leinsters backs have looked much more deep and dangerous. I feel that sexton is a better passer and playmaker than contepomi was and a much more natural 10. A lot of Leinster fans, myself included, have said that Leinster would never be successful with conters at 10 and he is undoubtedly a much better 12 as shown when playing for the pumas. This isnt a reaction to a hollow victory over a poor scarlets side last night or last saturday, I feel that Sexton has really got the backs moving this season when playing. Also it isnt a slight on dr phil who has been my favourite player for years and Im very sad to see him go. The future looks bright, and hopefully the sex and reddan can find some form together next year.

anonymous_joe

Easy to forget that Contepomi's a 12 first and a 10 second. The game's moved on defensively massively in the past few seasons, and the sheer magic of a Contepomi became less influential, throw in the value of a scrum-half who suits the out-half and Sexton can get more out of the Leinster backline.

Thought Whitaker's delivery wasn't too bad last night (not as good as against Munster but better than most games this season) and that helped too.

I've heard Sexton described as a 'classic' out-half, and usually compared to O'Gara. There's a lot of talent there, and he's answered his critics after a tough season.

danthefan

He has more elements to his game than ROG, he's far more physical and a lot quicker. He has the passing game and his tactical kicking against Munster and Scarlets was very good. Just a matter of whether he has the head for it and can deliver on his potential. He has the potential to be better than ROG imo.

anonymous_joe

danthefan wrote: »

He has more elements to his game than ROG, he's far more physical and a lot quicker. He has the passing game and his tactical kicking against Munster and Scarlets was very good. Just a matter of whether he has the head for it and can deliver on his potential. He has the potential to be better than ROG imo.

More physical and quicker for sure, but his vision and kicking's not up to O'Gara's standards yet.

Hopefully will be soon.

Crash

Couple of excellent kicks in behind last night, was impressed as that was an area I felt he lacked a bit.

escobar

danthefan wrote: »

He has more elements to his game than ROG, he's far more physical and a lot quicker. He has the passing game and his tactical kicking against Munster and Scarlets was very good. Just a matter of whether he has the head for it and can deliver on his potential. He has the potential to be better than ROG imo.

He's a great passer...The backs really open up when he plays. I'll not miss felipe when he's gone.

As for the O Gara question probably a little too soon yet but I would agree with you, he has the potential to be a better all round , his try for example was exceptional. It's great to finally have backup for O Gara ....

The game was a joy to watch, Leinster are peaking at the right time. I'd say tigers are quaking in their boots after that performance...

anonymous_joe

escobar wrote: »

He's a great passer...The backs really open up when he plays. I'll not miss felipe when he's gone.

As for the O Gara question probably a little too soon yet but I would agree with you, he has the potential to be a better all round , his try for example was exceptional. It's great to finally have backup for O Gara ....

The game was a joy to watch, Leinster are peaking at the right time. I'd say tigers are quaking in their boots after that performance...

I'd be amazed if they quake in their boots before any game. ^^

escobar

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I'd be amazed if they quake in their boots before any game. ^^

I don't know about that. Leinster fronted up to Munster and have now with sexton releasing their backline....... Their looking really good and have peaked at the perfect time.....

If I was on an opposing team I would be gravely concerned.
Rightfully so Leicester will feel lucky to have gotten through the semis on kicks and would consider themselves the underdogs for the final tie.... Leinster are damn lucky leicester got through....I'd much prefer them than the blues....

It'll be a tough match but leinster should open up and take controle in the last quarter.

wixfjord

escobar wrote: »

I don't know about that. Leinster fronted up to Munster and have now with sexton releasing their backline....... Their looking really good and have peaked at the perfect time.....

If I was on an opposing team I would be gravely concerned.
Rightfully so Leicester will feel lucky to have gotten through the semis on kicks and would consider themselves the underdogs for the final tie.... Leinster are damn lucky leicester got through....I'd much prefer them than the blues....

It'll be a tough match but leinster should open up and take controle in the last quarter.

Are you a leicester fan in disguise wanting one of us leinstermen to give ye some ammunition for the dressing room wall in murrayfield by saying "ah yeah its a foregone conclusion"? :pac:

anonymous_joe

escobar wrote: »

I don't know about that. Leinster fronted up to Munster and have now with sexton releasing their backline....... Their looking really good and have peaked at the perfect time.....

If I was on an opposing team I would be gravely concerned.
Rightfully so Leicester will feel lucky to have gotten through the semis on kicks and would consider themselves the underdogs for the final tie.... Leinster are damn lucky leicester got through....I'd much prefer them than the blues....

It'll be a tough match but leinster should open up and take controle in the last quarter.

Leicester are one of the toughest nastiest and most effective teams in rugby. This hasn't been a stirling year for them by any stretch of the imagination but they're in the running for a GP title and the HC. There's no way you can write a team like that off.

It'll be a bloody difficult game for both sides I'd reckon.

escobar

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Leicester are one of the toughest nastiest and most effective teams in rugby. This hasn't been a stirling year for them by any stretch of the imagination but they're in the running for a GP title and the HC. There's no way you can write a team like that off.

It'll be a bloody difficult game for both sides I'd reckon.

No team that gets into the HC final is a bad team but as a long waiting leinster supporter I feel it is our time.

Of course it will be a war of attrition and leinster will have to watch out for leicester tactics.... after all they were called Leicester cheetas for a season wern't they.;)

But on the whole Leinster on form are the better team . Now this is not dicounting it's a cup final game and anything could happen but I'm just starting enjoy myself a little....:) It's gonna be a great match!!!

p.s. perhaps if you made a comparison of Leicester and sterling's performance over the last year you might find leicester have had more than a sterling season....;)

danthefan

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Leicester are one of the toughest nastiest and most effective teams in rugby. This hasn't been a stirling year for them by any stretch of the imagination but they're in the running for a GP title and the HC. There's no way you can write a team like that off.

It'll be a bloody difficult game for both sides I'd reckon.

Eh? GP and HEC final? How could they possibly be having a better year up to this point?

anonymous_joe

escobar wrote: »

No team that gets into the HC final is a bad team but as a long waiting leinster supporter I feel it is our time.

Of course it will be a war of attrition and leinster will have to watch out for leicester tactics.... after all they were called Leicester cheetas for a season wern't they.;)

But on the whole Leinster on form are the better team . Now this is not dicounting it's a cup final game and anything could happen but I'm just starting enjoy myself a little....:) It's gonna be a great match!!!

p.s. perhaps if you made a comparison of Leicester and sterling's performance over the last year you might find leicester have had more than a sterling season....;)

Well... I'm just trying to be cautious. We've a good chance, but it won't be easy. ^^

danthefan

Anyway as for Sexton, his passing is really superb. He's involved in 6 of the 7 tries from the other night, I think the BOD one is the only one he doesn't touch the ball in somewhere.

escobar

danthefan wrote: »

Eh? GP and HEC final? How could they possibly be having a better year up to this point?

What about winning the whatsitsname cup, you know the one that never really took off and the welsh kept winning. Think it's gone now...

escobar

danthefan wrote: »

Anyway as for Sexton, his passing is really superb. He's involved in 6 of the 7 tries from the other night, I think the BOD one is the only one he doesn't touch the ball in somewhere.

It's absolutely brilliant, he's really stepped up with felipe gone.

The way they're played reminded me of the drubbing they used to give the welsh sides when they had 9 teams.....superb ......

If he keeps this form up he could be looking at an place on the Irish team . no mean feat....

Tim Robbins

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Easy to forget that Contepomi's a 12 first and a 10 second.

In my few 10, 12 should be interchangable.
Michal Lynagh, Gary Ella, Jonny Wilkonson, Daniel Carter, Aran Mauger all played both as did many other great players including Dr. Felipe.

The thinking that someone is an out and out 10 is very Irish and it comes from the same type of thinking where everyone claps if the 10 makes 25 yards in a touch kick but forget he's just given possesion away.

Contemponi was a world class 10 and 12. His passing, ball carrying, tackling, rugby brain are all better than Sexton's. Sexton has come on a lot this season and has done very well in his last few games.

But let's not get carried away with ourselves. Before the world cup, everyone was saying O'Gara was the second best outhalf in the world because he had a few big games in the VI nations. But in reality the top 5 NZ 10's (Carter, Evans, McCallister, Mauger, Holwell) were probably all better than him.

So let's not get carried away with hype.

anonymous_joe

Tim Robbins wrote: »

In my few 10, 12 should be interchangable.
Michal Lynagh, Gary Ella, Jonny Wilkonson, Daniel Carter, Aran Mauger all played both as did many other great players including Dr. Felipe.

The thinking that someone is an out and out 10 is very Irish and it comes from the same type of thinking where everyone claps if the 10 makes 25 yards in a touch kick but forget he's just given possesion away.

Contemponi was a world class 10 and 12. His passing, ball carrying, tackling, rugby brain are all better than Sexton's. Sexton has come on a lot this season and has done very well in his last few games.

But let's not get carried away with ourselves. Before the world cup, everyone was saying O'Gara was the second best outhalf in the world because he had a few big games in the VI nations. But in reality the top 5 NZ 10's (Carter, Evans, McCallister, Mauger, Holwell) were probably all better than him.

So let's not get carried away with hype.

But look what I said - 12 first 10 second.

I think it's natural that all players would prefer one, or specialise more in one, however you want to put it.

I actually think looking at how Sexton plays it's half Contepomi half O'Gara. The influence of the Argentine on a somewhat traditional Irish out-half can only have been a good thing.

Tim Robbins

anonymous_joe wrote: »

But look what I said - 12 first 10 second.

I did and I don't agree. I think he's equally good at both.
It's bit like worrying if Simon Geoghan is better on the left wing or right wing.

I think it's natural that all players would prefer one, or specialise more in one, however you want to put it.

I heard him interviewed once and he said he prefered 10.

anonymous_joe

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I did and I don't agree. I think he's equally good at both.
It's bit like worrying if Simon Geoghan is better on the left wing or right wing.


I heard him interviewed once and he said he prefered 10.

Really?

I've always viewed him more as a 12 and I know Argentina did, but ah well. ^^

Tim Robbins

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Really?

I've always viewed him more as a 12 and I know Argentina did, but ah well. ^^

Argentina played him there because Hernadez went to 10.

Podge_irl

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Contemponi was a world class 10 and 12. His passing, ball carrying, tackling, rugby brain are all better than Sexton's. Sexton has come on a lot this season and has done very well in his last few games.

I don't think he was ever really a world-class 10 tbh. In my view he was definitely a better 12.

irishbucsfan

Contempomi isn't a world class anything any more. Apart from kicker maybe He hasn't been all this season, and for a little of last season, although my memory of last season isnt the best anymore!

Contepomi was a good 10 when he actually had the pace, flare and desire to get the backline moving. He was always a better 12 than 10, maybe if we had someone to challenge him for the position wed have been able to see that. This season however he's been awful as a 10, and I was getting extremely tired of seeing him play there... Great servant to the team though

irishbucsfan

blah

subfreq

I have to say I think felipe is one of the most over rated players in World Rugby. He plays the odd gem but in general I think he is average. Very predictable in running possession(was that another step inside off your left foot with a 2 man overlap gone begging again?), passing slow, and his kicking unreliable.

Sexton has phenomenal raw talent. I think he really gels the talents in the Leinster back line and changes up the play nicely. His kicking out of hand in particular is fantastic. The more I read and see of him the more I understand he needs to control his aggression/discipline but that is not entirely a bad thing. If channeled properly by the coaches I think he could be a top International.

He will certainly have to stop giving away yellow cards if he is to break into the international team. The margins are so tight at that level he will have to give Declan complete faith in his discipline. You can't have the fly half of all players getting binned.

Next season when he is number one and Reddan is by his side it will be very interesting.

twinytwo

escobar wrote: »

He's a great passer...The backs really open up when he plays. I'll not miss felipe when he's gone.

As for the O Gara question probably a little too soon yet but I would agree with you, he has the potential to be a better all round , his try for example was exceptional. It's great to finally have backup for O Gara ....

The game was a joy to watch, Leinster are peaking at the right time. I'd say tigers are quaking in their boots after that performance...

Dont be getting ahead of yourself its easy to look good when Leinter are on fire... lets see him face down an all black/bok pack or have the likes of Nonu/Burger running at/into him a couple of times and see if he is any good.

[Jackass]

There's no doubt that as an attacking 10, Sexton was the great play maker of our backline. He's always been superb at throwing the long, flat pass which puts players through at pace and makes breaks (simular to O'Garas passing for the national team).

The question marks over him were always his place kicking, but he seems to have put some serious work into that and well done to Sexton, Leinster coaching and Felipe because he has improved beyond recognition.

I am perfectly happy with Sexton starting at 10 in the final and think it's our most dangerous back line.

His tactical kicking is good and he's a good all around player. It's funny, but it just seems the Leinster backline have really found there rythm over the last couple of days and please god they can carry it through to the final and we'll have a chance.

As for Leicester, they are a superb side, not a whole lot unlike Munster, and will be dangerous from all over the field.

If we are going to win, we will need another barnstorming, body on the lines, total commitment performance.

I believe!!

COME ON LEINSTER!!!

justsomebloke

I have to say I never understood why sexton wasn't played at 10 this year from the especially when they tried to force Isa in at number 10. I thought sexton had a good first year last year when he was playing, yes he still needed a lot of experience at top level but his talent was there. However with Contempomi never to play in a Leinster jersey again I don't think there is much to talk about as Sexton should now be given a proper chance to prove himself.

Truthfully though I think the performace that has had me really scratching my head over what to do is Isa at 15. I think he has had 2 real stand out performance at 15 and I think he can bring an extra depth to the postition when compared to Kearney

raven136

I love the revisionism here about Dr Phil.Didnt see many complaints about his running the Leinster backline as they scored try after try a few years back.Not many moaned about his performace in Toulose.

He wasnt at his best this season but he has gotten older.
Great Leinster servant and imo Sexton wont ever be near his level.I hope im wrong.
A few months ago when Contepomi said he was leaving,there was plenty saying Leinster should get in a new 10 and now after a few good games Sexton is the great white hope.

wixfjord

raven136 wrote: »

I love the revisionism here about Dr Phil.Didnt see many complaints about his running the Leinster backline as they scored try after try a few years back.Not many moaned about his performace in Toulose.

raven136 wrote: »

He wasnt at his best this season but he has gotten older.

Answer your own q?

Also as somebody said in this thread I think, rugby has changed a lot in the last few years and improved a lot defensively. Also his style of play was suiting neither the position, the scrum half he was playing with or the backs he was playing with

Podge_irl

raven136 wrote: »

I love the revisionism here about Dr Phil.Didnt see many complaints about his running the Leinster backline as they scored try after try a few years back.Not many moaned about his performace in Toulose.

He wasnt at his best this season but he has gotten older.
Great Leinster servant and imo Sexton wont ever be near his level.I hope im wrong.
A few months ago when Contepomi said he was leaving,there was plenty saying Leinster should get in a new 10 and now after a few good games Sexton is the great white hope.

Leinster still need a new ten, they're hardly going to get through a season with Sexton and, god help us, Nacewa as the only fly-halves. Sexton has the potential to be a much better fly-half then Contepomi, probably not a better all round player though. He's already better at a lot of things.

danthefan

The rumour is Leinster are looking at bringing in Glen Jackson. Don't have any sort of links and it may not be true.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Leinster still need a new ten, they're hardly going to get through a season with Sexton and, god help us, Nacewa as the only fly-halves.

Really dislike the fact that people think Nacewa isnt a good 10.

Sure, from a traditional Irish POV he's a poor enough 10, but in this Leinster system he's a quality asset, because of his handling skills and his running ability. Unfortunately his inability to kick means McFadden or some other kicker would have to play as well if Sexton goes down.

Still, lets remember that with Sexton and Nacewa competing for a 10 jersey next year, we'll have more competition and depth than the Irish national team! And if the team do bring in someone then thats even better. I would have preferred to see Keatley brought back though, I think he and Sexton would be very competitive.

Tim Robbins

Podge_irl wrote: »

Leinster still need a new ten, they're hardly going to get through a season with Sexton and, god help us, Nacewa as the only fly-halves. Sexton has the potential to be a much better fly-half then Contepomi, probably not a better all round player though. He's already better at a lot of things.

Michalak is the man hopefully. He'll can play 9 / 10 and suits the Leinster style.

Stealdo

It certainly seems like they're planning on bringing someone in for next season anyway. Sexton was interviewed on BBC Wales after the game on Friday night and said something like "Whoever they bring in next year, Isa and myself will be fighting them hard for the 10 shirt"

Very much sounded as though it's already been discussed within the team.

danthefan

Bllaaaaaaaaaaargh, I'm having horrible visions of Nacewa at 10, Kearney at 15 and Sexton on the bench for the final.

hardCopy

danthefan wrote: »

Bllaaaaaaaaaaargh, I'm having horrible visions of Nacewa at 10, Kearney at 15 and Sexton on the bench for the final.

I'd say that's very possible.

I don't know what Kearney's fitness is like after the mumps but I think Cheika should reward form and start with Sexton and Nacewa.

Then let Rob loose on the Boks with a point to prove!

Podge_irl

danthefan wrote: »

Bllaaaaaaaaaaargh, I'm having horrible visions of Nacewa at 10, Kearney at 15 and Sexton on the bench for the final.

It's not gonna happen. There is no way Cheika is that stupid (close though!).

Tim Robbins

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not gonna happen. There is no way Cheika is that stupid (close though!).

Ouch that reminds me of Williams not picking Spooner for the semi against Perpignan.

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not gonna happen. There is no way Cheika is that stupid (close though!).

I don't think he's been stupid this season. Perhaps misguided, but he knows a lot more about the game than most of us.

I think the Nacewa signing made a lot of sense, can you imagine the 06 vintage with a Nacewa at 10 as an option? Defense were looser then, and boy can he attack a gap.

Phil Godman for Scotland is there to get the backs moving, Nacewa might be able to do that. In theory it's not stupid to play him there. (I'd obviously prefer Sexton at 10.)

For Kearney's sake I'd rest him, make sure he a real chance to recover over the next few weeks, he'll probably need to put some weight back on. One of the lads has had mumps before and said it's decidedly unpleasant. I don't think it'd benefit Kearney or Leinster for him to be rushed back.

9. Whits (finally on form. Yay.)
10. Sexton
11. Fitz
12. D'Arcy
13. BOD
14. Horgan (so glad I can mean that again. Love Horgan, great player.)
15. Nacewa.

That's not a backline anyone would want to face other than the Canes or Chiefs. :pac:

Podge_irl

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I don't think he's been stupid this season. Perhaps misguided, but he knows a lot more about the game than most of us.

Ah, i never really thought he was stupid. Stubborn maybe, I don't think Nacewa at 10 worked at all and he should have seen it earlier. Worth a shot though I guess.

anonymous_joe

Podge_irl wrote: »

Ah, i never really thought he was stupid. Stubborn maybe, I don't think Nacewa at 10 worked at all and he should have seen it earlier. Worth a shot though I guess.

Definitely.

The whole problem with coaching is that it's guess work. In their case educated guess work with a solid framework on which to hang the guesses but still, you can never quite know.

NickNolte

Nacewa has to be starting at 15 with Sexton making play at 10. It's a proven formula and it's working. A potentially unfit and certainly not-match-fit Kearney at 15 with Nacewa at 10 and Sexton on the bench could be suicide for the final.

NickNolte

NickNolte wrote: »

Nacewa has to be starting at 15 with Sexton making play at 10. It's a proven formula and it's working. A potentially unfit and certainly not-match-fit Kearney at 15 with Nacewa at 10 and Sexton on the bench could be suicide for the final.

So the guy goes from being

NickNolte wrote: »

To be honest, with Nacewa at 15, it's game over.

to

NickNolte wrote: »

a proven formula.

after 1 match.
Oh dear.



They will line out
10-sexton
15-Nacewa

If Kearney is fit I imagine he will prob take Girves place on the bench.

NickNolte

Alfonso Refined Nitpicker wrote: »

So the guy goes from being Oh dear.

Like I said, Cheika has proven to me that it works. He proved to a lot of the sceptical rugby pundits that it worked as well. Many of them said as much in their pieces in the Sunday papers the next day. Like I said in my PM to you - I'd have admitted I was incorrect. Although you had to go and post an abusive thread dedicated solely to me and get yourself banned. Well done.

Just because your baseless guessing worked out, not to mention your incorrect assertions that Nacewa had had a good season for Leinster up to that point, doesn't exactly give you bragging rights.

escobar

twinytwo wrote: »

Dont be getting ahead of yourself its easy to look good when Leinter are on fire... lets see him face down an all black/bok pack or have the likes of Nonu/Burger running at/into him a couple of times and see if he is any good.

He'll have most of the Munster pack protecting him...he'll be fine:D

There's no doubt O gara is world class and is one of the best controllers of a game and sexton is still coming into his role . But there are some signs of greatness from him.

He's a great passer of the ball ,opening up the Leinster backline beautifully, and the break he made against llanelli was sublime.

I think in these fields he could surpass OGara. Whether that'll make him the superior outhalf I think is still up in the air.

Still it's great finally to have a plausible replacement for OGara and ..... sexton has time on his side...

NickNolte

NickNolte wrote: »

Like I said, Cheika has proven to me that it works. He proved to a lot of the sceptical rugby pundits that it worked as well. Many of them said as much in their pieces in the Sunday papers the next day. Like I said in my PM to you - I'd have admitted I was incorrect. Although you had to go and post an abusive thread dedicated solely to me and get yourself banned. Well done.

Just because your baseless guessing worked out, not to mention your incorrect assertions that Nacewa had had a good season for Leinster up to that point, doesn't exactly give you bragging rights.

Ah relax,im only messing with you.
I agree with your point btw.

It would be sad for Kearney to miss out on a medal though,well he wont cherish it as much unless he actually plays a good role in the match.
Its a dilema I would not want to have tbh,they also have to consider the damage not playing him could do to his Lions credentials.The guy is capable of the line breaks Nacewa made but whereas he was kept on a lead Nacewa seemed to be given free reign.

I suspect if Kearney was given as much freedom all year as Nacewa got against Munster,there would be no discussion as to whether himself or Byrne were gona start 15 for the Lions.