Being bullied

cassiedoll

I need some honest feed back on this.

i have been bullied/victimised in my job for almost year now. The bully is a passive aggressive and is very good at what they do extremely cunning and sly and would actually say that i have never met a person like this in my life....there are only one or two people in my job that can see thru the bully. The 2 owners of the company think the bully is absolutely terrific and is an asset to the company.

However, i have now been up to my bosses on several occassion, the last one being only a few weeks ago as they have not dealt with this matter or tackled the bully in any way, shape or form in the past when i have made serious complaints. On my last meeting with them i told them that my health is suffering, i have lost weight....i now dread coming into work and that the environment that i work, they have actually allowed it to get worse over the last few months.

They suggested that myself and the bully have a meeting and thrash it out between ourselves but i told them that i didnt feel that it would be of any benefit and i felt that i would only be victimised even more afterwards. I told them that i could not take anymore and that i am soo close to going out sick.

I told my bosses that the bully is pushing me to the point where the bully wants me to have a massive row with them so that the tables can be turned around to make me out to be the instigator and i have warned my bosses of this.....and i am not being paranoid.

i have read up on a few notes about bullying in the work place on the siptu website/LRC website etc. and didnt find it of any major help.

i documented over the last few months what i have been subjected to and i do have witnesses.

but my main question is, if my bosses dont try to resolve this matter (as they haven't done in the past, they think by ignoring it, it will go away) what can my next step be???

to i go to the union, engage a solicitor?????

any suggestions would be so appreciated.

yeneewss

Wow, seems like you have done everything right so far. Keeping a diary of things is a great idea - if it comes down to legal action the more detail you have the better. You should also detail all approaches you have made to your employers directly. The other two people who know about this person - can you talk to them. If you all keep notes on your individual experiences and anyone of you wants to take things further, it's great to have support and verification from others. It's hard being victimised/harrassed by someone who is so pathetic. And remember that that's what they are - people bully to make themselves feel bigger and more important. Believe in the truth. Try not to go out sick. Stay out of this person's way as much as possible and do your job to the best of your ability. Go to your doctor and talk it out with them - get something for your nerves maybe - but not something that's long term - don't rely on medication, but something to get you through for a short while, make you see clearer and be stronger might help.
Best of luck.

John Mason

i worked in a solicitors office and went through the same thing but i just left, i did suggest constructive dismissal to boss.

i just left and move out of the legal profession

you should just start looking for another job, your bosses are never going to resolve this

onemorechance

I think that the company, i.e. the two bosses do not want to deal with the matter or take it seriously as they "prefer" the bully. I think that you need to tell them that you will take the matter to a legal authority which will place the matter out of their hands which I expect that they will not like, and thus it may prompt them to take action. If they do not, then you will have to take it to an outside authority. I'm not sure who this is, but you should be able to find out. There is some authority out there that deals with bullying in the workplace as it is a crime and it is taken very seriously these days.

ibbie

Go to your Union there are government legislation / acts in place. Clearly your employer is in breech of them- it is there responsibility to take action on the complaint! look at citizeninformation.ie

Cianos

This may not be what you want to hear, but if you have told your bosses as much as you have told us, I can kind of understand them not doing much about it up to this point. They have suggested a meeting, which you have declined. They only have your side of the story to go on so from their perspective it might seem like you both simply don't get on which they have offered to oversee a solution to but which you don't seem to want to happen. And if the person in question from their perspective is a good employee, they are not just going to call them in and fire them unless there is a verified reason to do so.

In saying that, this is probably what the bully is using to protect themselves and knows how far to push their bullying without exposing themselves.

hickswasright

Hi, while i agree with the previous authors with regards to dealing with the symptoms, i would like to point out that bullying comes in four dramas; Rage, Interrogation, Mystery and Victim.
If you can isolate which tactic the `bully' is using at the time(..and a skilled bully can alternate between the four..), then initially don't react with the programmed response e.g. "I look terrible...!" with "..oh No, you don't..!!" etc.
AND Rage requires Victim responses,
Interrogation requires Mystery responses
Mystery requires Interrogation and
Victim entices Rage...

Don't react-Respond

Good Luck and if you decide to leave because of the bullying then have some Fun experimenting with this technique before you go :-)

HashSlinging

Firstly is there a sports and social group in your job, try and get involved as you can use this to highlight your social skills to your bosses here.

In the end though the simplest thing to do is leave, otherwise fight fire with fire.

I'd write to your bully cc your bosses and tell them that if this treatment continues (backed up with your notes of the incidents, also have examples of your good work) you will have no other option but to leave on grounds of constructive dismissal and give them a date.

Also have that meeting with your boss and record it, tell them how you feel it might be the best thing. You have been offered mediation albeit not to your liking take the opportunity.

cassiedoll

many thanks to people for their input so far but just to refer to Cianos' comment....the company i work for is quite small however, when the bullying first began and one of the girls here commented on it to me...she said that the bosses had a very serious bullying complaint bout 10 years ago and they buried their head in the sand and put it down to too many women working together....however the person who was being bullied engaged a solicitor as her family were only short of coming to the office to "confront" the bully.

My bosses were completely embarrassed as they didnt realise how bad things had got for this person and in fact when she confronted her bully....her situation got worse......the bully ended being let go after a long investigation and the girl in question has never been the same since.

I have been soo civil to this person and i have bit my tongue because i will not stoop to her level. If i have an argument with her....im giving into her.

I worked in a major American company with a huge number of women where all the usual "clicks" were involved and i have never encountered a situation like this.

I feel that i have given my bosses ample opportunity to get her side of the story which they have failed to do. I suggested bringing in a mediator who could talk to us separately and it was sort of passed off.

It sucks the life out of me to work like this

Cianos

cassiedoll wrote: »

many thanks to people for their input so far but just to refer to Cianos' comment....the company i work for is quite small however, when the bullying first began and one of the girls here commented on it to me...she said that the bosses had a very serious bullying complaint bout 10 years ago and they buried their head in the sand and put it down to too many women working together....however the person who was being bullied engaged a solicitor as her family were only short of coming to the office to "confront" the bully.

My bosses were completely embarrassed as they didnt realise how bad things had got for this person and in fact when she confronted her bully....her situation got worse......the bully ended being let go after a long investigation and the girl in question has never been the same since.

I have been soo civil to this person and i have bit my tongue because i will not stoop to her level. If i have an argument with her....im giving into her.

I worked in a major American company with a huge number of women where all the usual "clicks" were involved and i have never encountered a situation like this.

I feel that i have given my bosses ample opportunity to get her side of the story which they have failed to do. I suggested bringing in a mediator who could talk to us separately and it was sort of passed off.

It sucks the life out of me to work like this

It's fair enough that you're worried about it, but a lot can change in 10 years. Besides, if your bosses have had a bad experience with a similar situation in the past, I presume they will want to see it through as carefully as possible this time around. But they can't do that if you aren't willing to take assertive steps yourself. Don't be afraid of ending up like the previous bully victim. You are aware of what is going on and seem to be handling it well and it sounds like you have support from colleagues, so chances are you are in a much better mental state than the last victim.

rustopher

It sucked the life out of me too. My problem was when I worked as a medical secretary. The bosses (doctors) employed the practice manager to take care of all the problems but it was her that was the problem!
More than me had problems with her so I think we got through to one of the docs but not the other. Eventually I left as it was getting in the way of everything. And others followed, but not without saying our piece. I think staff turn over is a sure sign and that place could never hold on to staff.
My house mate is having similar problems at the moment, she has taken to recording everything that happens which I was sorry I didn't do. Its great to be able to pull out if needed. I always had problems giving examples or my side when asked but then I'm not good with confrontation.
The other thing is keep your head down, boss should (maybe) notice something is not right and approach you. That is another approach from my house mate.

LegacyUser

I was in a similar situation in work and eventually had to walk away for health purposes. However this was because my boss owned the company and I had no recourse anywhere else. You do have your bosses to turn to and they have a responsibility to help you - every company is obliged to have an anti-bullying policy as part of their personnel procedures, and to ensure that this is adhered to by all staff. If they are siding with this person over you, then make sure you keep notes of every meeting/conversation/e-mail with them on this issue. They should offer to mediate in any discussions that you have with the bully - you should not have to do this on your own. However this will only work if they act impartially and listen to both sides fairly. If they do not do this and the bullying continues, you will probably end up leaving for your own peace of mind and health, but you can take a case for constructive dismissal against them through the Labour Relations committee. It is your bosses who are ultimately responsible for allowing bullying to take place and not doing anything to stop it.

From my own experience, if you need time out, go to the doctors & get a cert - a few days away from the situation can be a great help. People who have not been bullied cannot understand how it feels and usually think that the bullied person must be doing something wrong - this is not the case and bullies need to know that they cant get away with ruining peoples lives. Stay strong.

cassiedoll

i have thought bout looking for another job and went for interviews last year....but would be wise to leave my job in the current market and let the bully think that they won by driving me out of a job that i loved up to a year ago????

LegacyUser

cassiedoll wrote: »

....but would be wise to leave my job in the current market and let the bully think that they won by driving me out of a job that i loved up to a year ago????

Well, you certainly won't have won by staying in a situation that is making you miserable and sick. Who cares what the bully thinks once you are gone?

In an ideal world bullies would get what they deserve but in a situation where you have taken the correct steps and not got anywhere, the only person you can teach a lesson to is your bosses, by leaving and making it clear to them that they have lost a dedicated member of staff due to their refusal to take action. Your own health and happiness is more important than what happens to the other person.

Mountjoy Mugger

It's your bosses who have the responsibility to confront the bully, not you.

Talk about washing their hands of the issue!

Mountjoy Mugger

cassiedoll wrote: »

i have thought bout looking for another job and went for interviews last year....but would be wise to leave my job in the current market and let the bully think that they won by driving me out of a job that i loved up to a year ago????

Have you looked at the information here?

LegacyUser

hi cassie,

my boss would roar; "..you're late again!!" (Rage) and for me to respond with;"i'm sorry." (Victim) would relinquish my power in the conversation. Instead i would ask a question (Interrogation) to distract him :-)

recently let go i spent eight successful years contracting in dublin and made a lot of friends, worked with **** and played my bosses.
Reason being: every company is facist in nature and the problem comes from the top down.
It's a possibility that you might move from frying pan to fire(better the devil you know..) when it is easier to **** with the bullies..
You'll soon realise that most are one-trick ponies!!

You're stuck in the drama..

amybabes

this happened to me on my co-op placement in a hotel group last year.
i experienced a form of bullying by the HR MANAGER!!
she was a roarin' b**ch if i ever encountered one in my whole life!! and whereas she had no real qualifications, and her hr duties were basic....doing the payroll etc, i am actually a HR final yr student so this year i specialised in the subject area of workplace bullying,

She took a dislike to me for no real reason, started not saying hello to me etc. Then she claimed i had no overtime worked up even though i had been working crazy hours for a launch party........and had 3 days worked up to get back in lieu, ended up having to go to the general manager with times, dates etc because i depended on these 3 days holidays to go on a holiday i had booked, but the final straw came when i was on holidays and i received a text from one of my co-workers saying that the HR manager had been in saying in front of the whole office that i was in serious trouble for not leaving the code to my email account there and that i would be dealt with when i got back from holidays (i worked in a big open plan office so about 8-9 of my close co-workers would have heard this going on plus anyone else who was around) so all confused, i waited til i got back 2 days later (this ruined the last 2 days of my hol) and rang the general manager wanting to know what the problem was, that i had heard nothing of having to leave my email password there, and i would have supplied it if contacted and asked, and got upset saying that if the HR manager had a problem with me, i would have preferred she called me into her office instead of saying it to all of my co-workers and for me to have to hear it from all of them. i told him i had 3 weeks to finish on my placement and that i was so upset about the whole thing and didnt want to face any of the staff that i wasnt coming in and that never in my life had i experience such treatment from a manager.
He must of got a kick up the arse when he realised i could go public about it/report it to the university who had arranged the placement etc and sure enough i got a phonecall to meet with her and an apology.

This woman was in her 50s, i was 21 at the time, a university student......honestly didnt know what her motive was. Having studied the subject of workplace bullying in depth this year i would advise you to contact your union, or failing that a solicitor........if you have notified the employers of your distress then they are at fault bigtime here........is there a bullying policy in existance? do you have a hr manager?

The Sweeper

Cianos wrote: »

This may not be what you want to hear, but if you have told your bosses as much as you have told us, I can kind of understand them not doing much about it up to this point. They have suggested a meeting, which you have declined. They only have your side of the story to go on so from their perspective it might seem like you both simply don't get on which they have offered to oversee a solution to but which you don't seem to want to happen. And if the person in question from their perspective is a good employee, they are not just going to call them in and fire them unless there is a verified reason to do so.

In saying that, this is probably what the bully is using to protect themselves and knows how far to push their bullying without exposing themselves.

The correct thing to do is certainly not suggest that she sorts it out with the bully herself.

The correct thing to do is for the bosses to interview the bully and get the bully's side of the story. They need to establish what outcome each party wants from this. They should then mediate a meeting between the bully and the complainant - not let them 'thrash it out'. The requests of the complainant need to be acknowledged and the bully asked to change their behaviour within reason. If it is felt the complainant is being highly over sensitive, that also needs to be addressed.

If the clash cannot be resolved to the satisfaction of either party, the bosses should investigate whether or not they can separate the two parties so they do not have to have regularly, daily contact in work. In that way, the bosses meet their responsibilities as employers by covering every reasonable course of action.

The mediation meeting should generate a list of requirements for future behaviour, and an established date for review to see if the situation has changed to suit each party.

Head in the sand isn't the way to go, and sort it out yourselves is not the way to go either. If the OP isn't getting that level of response from her bosses, she needs to engage the union, HR function or a solicitor.

As for "leave your job" - I left job after job because I didn't understand my rights in terms of treatment in the workplace. The only person that hurt was me. Eventually I spent over a year as the stenographer in mediation meetings in everything from government organisations to utility companies to the major corporate entities whose employees earn seven figure salaries, and the complaints were the same in each case, whether they earned twenty grand or two hundred and fifty grand - lack of respect, lack of communication, frustration, low self worth, a daily dread of attending work, often deepening into depression and long sick leave.

I had a management issue earlier this year, and armed with my experience I took a well-defined complaint with a set of desirable outcomes to management. I conducted myself respectfully yet honestly and pointedly in the mediation meeting. I requested that the points raised in the meeting be distributed by email by the mediator, and set a date for review. By the time the review came around, I can happily say things had improved two hundred fold, and I still have my job.

jackiebrown

hickswasright wrote: »

Hi, while i agree with the previous authors with regards to dealing with the symptoms, i would like to point out that bullying comes in four dramas; Rage, Interrogation, Mystery and Victim.
If you can isolate which tactic the `bully' is using at the time(..and a skilled bully can alternate between the four..), then initially don't react with the programmed response e.g. "I look terrible...!" with "..oh No, you don't..!!" etc.
AND Rage requires Victim responses,
Interrogation requires Mystery responses
Mystery requires Interrogation and
Victim entices Rage...

Don't react-Respond

Good Luck and if you decide to leave because of the bullying then have some Fun experimenting with this technique before you go :-)

+1

Its takes two to tango. You energise the situation by reacting. Ignore something and it goes away.

cassiedoll

I work in small firm of 15 employees. I have been a member of Siptu for almost 10 years and when i rang them they asked me what procedures, guidelines etc. they had in the office in respect of the Health and Safety Act.....they have absolutely nothing...no procedure to follow for grievances etc.

Can you take a case for constructive dismissal? I only have a verbal contract with my bosses. I am here over 3 and 1/2 years.

rustopher

Well at no point did I love my job so it was easier for me to leave. If the job is worth staying for than you should stand your ground because as you said yourself there may not be anything else out there.
Or at least don't leave unless you have sorted out another position.

LegacyUser

It's easy to say stand your ground & why should you leave your job - of course every effort should be made to stay in the job, however I know from my own experience of being bullied that sometimes you just have to give in & go. My boss really gave me a terrible time and I stuck it out for a number of years because I thought it was "giving in" if I left and why should I be the one to leave when they were at fault. However when my health really began to suffer and nothing was changing in relation to the bullying, I finally decided it was time to leave. Within a few weeks, friends & family were telling me how I had changed & that I was getting back to being the person I was before the bullying had started. I didnt realise how badly it had affected me until about six months later when I was back to enjoying life again & not constantly worrying and upset about work - I had been a nervous wreck up to the time I left. It is not giving in to leave if your quality of life is really suffering because of the bullying. I know nobody wants to go down the road of a constructive dismissal case but sometimes it is the only solution.

Tuvok

If you are going to leave the job and claim constructive dismissal then make sure that you put in a formal written complaint first. They should have some sort of grievance procedures in place so you would need to go down this route first before leaving the company. If they don't have grievance procedures in place then they should be listening to both sides of the story and making an appropriate decision based on the facts provided. If they refuse to do this then your case for constructive dismissal would be a lot stronger. Please go to a solicitor before leaving your job to make sure that you do have a strong case.

The Sweeper

Taking a constructive dismissal case against an employer who treated you badly - in my opinion, because I've seen a few - is more stressful than even continuing to work in the organisation. And if you don't win the case, you end up feeling even worse because you're not vindicated.

Every single aspect of your work - your output, your productivity, how good you are at your job, every bad call you've ever made, comes under the microscope. So does your personality.

See, constructive dismissal boils down to something very simple - you're saying to your employers "You deliberately made my life effing miserable so I'd just up and leave because you didn't have a reason to sack me."

The problem is that your employer's defence is then "No we didn't, you were just crap at your job and you couldn't cope because you're one of those weak, scatty people, and we did try to help you along but you wanted handholding and special treatment, and we weren't going to give that to you because it's unfair to our other employees, and eventually you jumped ship - your problem love, not ours."

Most people who think of constructive dismissal are setting themselves up for a fall, because they're already so hurt and offended by the poor treatment handed out by their management that they believe it's obvious that they've been wronged. Subsequently they're not ready - emotionally or cognitively - for the backlash that comes in a constructive dismissal defence. Colleagues will be called in to give evidence - have any of your colleagues ever said to you "I think the way you're treated is terrible"?

And seriously - how good are you at your job? Because you better be sure you're iron clad, or they'll tell you that you were crap all along and weren't cut out for the position.

My point is that if you're already feeling fragile, constructive dismissal is a war - are you ready to start a war? Who's on your side? Are you sure they are? Are you sure one of your colleagues who used to work with you will testify against the company they still work for??

If you're with Siptu 10 years, can you get them to at least look into the fact that you only have a verbal contract? That's where I'd start.

In the meantime, the bully - how much do you actually absolutely HAVE to do with that person every day?

cassiedoll

constructive dismissal would be my very very last resort.

i contacted my union rep who told me that my employment rights had nothing to do with whether i had a written or verbal contract and didnt go down the road of the ins and outs of constructive dismissal as there was a lot of steps to be taken first before i went down that road.

2 girls in particular in the office have made numerous comments to me about how i am treated and the first time i went to my bosses, one of the girls was called in and backed up my story. In fact, a client of the office was also a witness to an incident and was appalled at the carry on of the bully

Insofar has my work....an honest opinion....im extremely good at what i do and i have been rewarded a number of times in the past. That is one thing i can guarantee can never be called into question. Even through all this it is the only thing that hasnt suffered because i feel if i let my work slip...i am giving the bullying something against me.

I jus feel that i am half the person i was a year ago and that i dont have the job satisfaction anymore with all that is going on and that has affected my personality in a big way.

I have been to a doctor as my health as suffered and i would have medical notes. My GP asked me if i wanted zanax and the likes and i said no at the time but that will change

i have to work with this bully every hour of everyday and she found out i went up to the bosses months ago about her and after that meeting she couldnt do enough for me....falling all over me but believe me that didnt last to long before she fell back into her old ways.

i have had to put up with more crap from the minute i got in this morning....and i just want to walk out

LegacyUser

Not sure how this works but can your union rep not intervene on your behalf with your employers?

Lollipops23

Cassiedoll, im a member of SIPTU too. now you've paid 10 years worth of union dues, do not let your rep fob you off!!bullying in the workplace is an extremely serious situation and one of the many reasons SIPTU exists.

you've done everything right, making several formal complaints to management and noting dates and times of incidents. you need to take this higher than your Rep; ring Liberty Hall and demand to speak to someone. I'd also point out how usless you feel your Rep is.

rustopher

Are you keeping a diary of whats going on between you and the bully(or did I miss that). If people are backing you up, then already thats 2 reasons to go to the bosses again...and again...and again.. until they do something.
You wont be frowned upon or let go for doing this.

You could also approach it by leaving out the bullys identification(even if they know who it is) and just point out the problem, what is expected of you etc so it wont look like you just keep singling out that person.
You need to point out the urgency and that it cant go on... maybe hand them your doctors expenses...!!

And remember, all bullies are cowards underneath.........

Affable

Can you give some specific examples of what he does?

NickNolte

Minesajackdaniels wrote: »

Taking a constructive dismissal case against an employer who treated you badly - in my opinion, because I've seen a few - is more stressful than even continuing to work in the organisation. And if you don't win the case, you end up feeling even worse because you're not vindicated.

Every single aspect of your work - your output, your productivity, how good you are at your job, every bad call you've ever made, comes under the microscope. So does your personality.

See, constructive dismissal boils down to something very simple - you're saying to your employers "You deliberately made my life effing miserable so I'd just up and leave because you didn't have a reason to sack me."

The problem is that your employer's defence is then "No we didn't, you were just crap at your job and you couldn't cope because you're one of those weak, scatty people, and we did try to help you along but you wanted handholding and special treatment, and we weren't going to give that to you because it's unfair to our other employees, and eventually you jumped ship - your problem love, not ours."

Most people who think of constructive dismissal are setting themselves up for a fall, because they're already so hurt and offended by the poor treatment handed out by their management that they believe it's obvious that they've been wronged. Subsequently they're not ready - emotionally or cognitively - for the backlash that comes in a constructive dismissal defence. Colleagues will be called in to give evidence - have any of your colleagues ever said to you "I think the way you're treated is terrible"?

And seriously - how good are you at your job? Because you better be sure you're iron clad, or they'll tell you that you were crap all along and weren't cut out for the position.

My point is that if you're already feeling fragile, constructive dismissal is a war - are you ready to start a war? Who's on your side? Are you sure they are? Are you sure one of your colleagues who used to work with you will testify against the company they still work for??

If you're with Siptu 10 years, can you get them to at least look into the fact that you only have a verbal contract? That's where I'd start.

In the meantime, the bully - how much do you actually absolutely HAVE to do with that person every day?

The trick here is to have as detailed a diary of events as possible. If you've got one or two allies in the company to corroborate your notes then that will stand up as evidence. If you're in a situation where you can't really detail the systematic nature of the bullying and it comes down to your word against your employers then that's not really going to be good enough.

If you turn around to your boss and explain that the situation is critical, that you have made a detailed diary of abuses over X amount of months and that you've spoken to your solicitor then you can be absolutely guaranteed that they'll want to find a non-litigous solution.

Be clever about it. Bullies are vicious, nasty, disgusting people. But they're cunning and often quite smart. You need to make sure that you can beat them at their own game. Talking to a solicitor is a very good idea.