Another Fiat punto... Please help

Bobo78

Hi lads, my sister just bought a Fiat Punto 2002 with 1.2 8 valve engine.
The problem is that the car is making tappet noise when idleing and it sounds a bit like a diesel.
It has 45 k miles and it s just been fully serviced.
Do you think that valves just need to be adjusted or...?

Bobo78

Anyone??:(

L1011

You only posted 30 minutes ago!

www.fiatforum.com - not even sure you'll get as quick a response there...

Bobo78

MYOB wrote: »

You only posted 30 minutes ago!

www.fiatforum.com - not even sure you'll get as quick a response there...

Sorry I was kind of expecting quick replay cause there s many members online and I m kind of anxious to know what s wrong with it.

unkel

Bobo78 wrote: »

Sorry I was kind of expecting quick replay cause there s many members online and I m kind of anxious to know what s wrong with it.

Bumping your thread like that is rude. It's like jumping the queue. It sure doesn't encourage people to help you out. Don't do it. I think I've made myself clear now.

sogood

You might check that there is sufficient oil in it and also listen to the engine running with the oil filler cap off, so you can hear the valves/tappets more clearly, though it does sound as if they need adjustment. You will see also with the filler cap off if they are getting enough oil, in the event that the spray bar isnt blocked or anything. Hope this helps.

Bobo78

sogood wrote: »

You might check that there is sufficient oil in it and also listen to the engine running with the oil filler cap off, so you can hear the valves/tappets more clearly, though it does sound as if they need adjustment. You will see also with the filler cap off if they are getting enough oil, in the event that the spray bar isnt blocked or anything. Hope this helps.

Oil has just been changed 2 days ago and full service has been done.
The oil level is at 90 percent of the dipstick.
You can here the sound increasing as you add the throttle.
Is adjustment of valves/tappets big and expensive job on this car?
And yeah it did help a lot thanks;)

colm_mcm

did the noise starty since the service was done or was it there before?

Bobo78

We only got the car few days ago, and it had old and black oil and it started to make that sound like one or two days before the service.

colm_mcm

Oh dear. I presume there isn't a service history with the car. does the sound get less loud when the car warms up?

Bobo78

No I don't have the service history and the sound is present all the time pretty much

colm_mcm

If the noise was there during the service, did the mechanic not say anything?

Bobo78

He said that that's normal with Fiat Punto, and that it would cost me around 300 for new lifters, but as far as I found out it doesn't have hydraulic lifters but it has tappets. Correct me if I m wrong.

colm_mcm

lifter and tappet are the same thing.

Bobo78

colm_mcm wrote: »

lifter and tappet are the same thing.

Ou, ok well what's the difference between the tappets in Fiat Punto with this engine and with any other modern engines that has hydraulic lifters??
Because as far as I found out on the web it is much easier and cheaper to fix/replace/adjust tappets on this engine than on most of other today modern engines.

colm_mcm

there are less of them, it being 8 valve as opposed to 16 valve.

Bobo78

colm_mcm wrote: »

there are less of them, it being 8 valve as opposed to 16 valve.

Ok thanks for all the help:) anyway I m gonna take it tomorrow to another mechanic and see whats the story.
I ll let ye know what s happened.

Muckie

I think theres some stuff cant think of the name, but Halfords or any

motor factors sell an additive which you add to the oil to help quiten down

tappets, noisy tappets wont effect the your engine, some cars are more

prone to it than others.(fiesta's and micra, even old BMW's). Good luck.

Bobo78

Yeah it turns out that noisy tappets wont do any damage to the engine, at least that's what another mechanic told me today.
I don't really know what my sister is going to do about it but we r just gonna leave for now and we ll see about later.

Darragh29

colm_mcm wrote: »

lifter and tappet are the same thing.

A tappet is adjustable and is old technology that you hardly see these days. What the OP has is cam buckets & shims which may need to be replaced. It can also be the camshaft that is the problem, but you can't "adjust" this problem out of the equation. The problem is caused by oil starvation at the valve train assembly, causing accelerated cam shaft wear and wear of associated components.

mle1324

my ma has the 2001 1.2 16v and it sorta sounds like a diesal aswell

Darragh29

mle1324 wrote: »

my ma has the 2001 1.2 16v and it sorta sounds like a diesal aswell

They all suffer from this eventually.

Bobo78

Darragh29 wrote: »

A tappet is adjustable and is old technology that you hardly see these days. What the OP has is cam buckets & shims which may need to be replaced. It can also be the camshaft that is the problem, but you can't "adjust" this problem out of the equation. The problem is caused by oil starvation at the valve train assembly, causing accelerated cam shaft wear and wear of associated components.

Yeah the mechanic mentioned to me that this car has shims, just to ask you are these parts expensive to buy and replace?

mle1324

Darragh29 wrote: »

They all suffer from this eventually.

yea,i think because its an automatic it is like that,my uncle had the sporting and it sounded like a proper petrol engine

Darragh29

Bobo78 wrote: »

Yeah the mechanic mentioned to me that this car has shims, just to ask you are these parts expensive to buy and replace?

Nah not really. It might not be the shims, it could be the camshaft itself that is wearing down excessively on a few places. I don't know how much the shims would cost, you'd probably get a set for under 100 Euro. The labour is probably around 2-3 hours as well. Unless the car was really clean and worth keeping on the road, I'd leave it alone for the moment. The same car is well known for clutch problems, so you'll usually have that to do around 50K onwards.

Bobo78

Darragh29 wrote: »

Nah not really. It might not be the shims, it could be the camshaft itself that is wearing down excessively on a few places. I don't know how much the shims would cost, you'd probably get a set for under 100 Euro. The labour is probably around 2-3 hours as well. Unless the car was really clean and worth keeping on the road, I'd leave it alone for the moment. The same car is well known for clutch problems, so you'll usually have that to do around 50K onwards.

We only got the car last weekend and it has 45 k miles on clock.
We bought the car for my sister cause she s just starting to drive.
Since I see that you know your stuff can you tell me can that do any damage to the engine?

mle1324

mate ,at least it isent as irratating as the small opel engines (corsa 1.0-1.2 not the new ones) you would reconise them been blindfoled cos of there sound

Bobo78

mle1324 wrote: »

mate ,at least it isent as irratating as the small opel engines (corsa 1.0-1.2 not the new ones) you would reconise them been blindfoled cos of there sound

True true, my sister wanted to buy Opel Corsa 1.0 liter but, they way those 3 cylinder engines work she changed her mind.

mle1324

Bobo78 wrote: »

True true, my sister wanted to buy Opel Corsa 1.0 liter but, they way those 3 cylinder engines work she changed her mind.

i know 3 cyclinders,ied never want to drive one.
but if the problem wont damage the punto there isent really much point of getting it fixed:)
hope it isent a more serious problem

Darragh29

Bobo78 wrote: »

We only got the car last weekend and it has 45 k miles on clock.
We bought the car for my sister cause she s just starting to drive.
Since I see that you know your stuff can you tell me can that do any damage to the engine?

No not really, it's just a bit of wear that you are hearing. Usually when the engine heats up, the gap between the shims and the camshaft reduces due to heat expansion and you don't hear the noise as bad or sometimes it goes away altogether. I saw this problem more advanced recently enough on another car and it was so bad, some of the cam lobes on the camshaft had worn down completely and this effected engine performance as certain valves were not lifting. It's not a major problem to be honest, just an annoyance more than anything else. It could get worse and then you can do something about it but it won't cause any major problem in the short term.

Bobo78

Darragh29 wrote: »

No not really, it's just a bit of wear that you are hearing. Usually when the engine heats up, the gap between the shims and the camshaft reduces due to heat expansion and you don't hear the noise as bad or sometimes it goes away altogether. I saw this problem more advanced recently enough on another car and it was so bad, some of the cam lobes on the camshaft had worn down completely and this effected engine performance as certain valves were not lifting. It's not a major problem to be honest, just an annoyance more than anything else. It could get worse and then you can do something about it but it won't cause any major problem in the short term.

Well that s a big relief, thanks Daragh
Engine is going perfectly it s only that this is annoyance problem because every time I accelerate and decelerate you can here it through the cabin a bit. So it s just that it s very annoying when your driving.

Darragh29

Bobo78 wrote: »

Well that s a big relief, thanks Daragh
Engine is going perfectly it s only that this is annoyance problem because every time I accelerate and decelerate you can here it through the cabin a bit. So it s just that it s very annoying when your driving.

Does it not become less noticable when the engine heats up?

Bobo78

Darragh29 wrote: »

Does it not become less noticable when the engine heats up?

No it does not. It s there all the time.

sogood

Maybe add some sound insulation to the engine bay/bulkhead? A simple cheap "fix" of sorts?

Bobo78

Lads this car is really starting to annoy me now, just 3 days ago rocker cover gasket was repalced and it s started to leak again.:mad:
Do ye know is there any permanent solution for this?

L-M

Bobo78 wrote: »

Lads this car is really starting to annoy me now, just 3 days ago rocker cover gasket was repalced and it s started to leak again.:mad:
Do ye know is there any permanent solution for this?

The first thing I'd be checking is if it was repaired correctly? Did you bring it back to who ever did it?

Bobo78

Limerick man wrote: »

The first thing I'd be checking is if it was repaired correctly? Did you bring it back to who ever did it?

No I havent brought it to anybody yet, I only noticed it 1 hour ago.
I knew that this is one of the problems that they create from time to time but after 2 days!!??

I m really disapointed now with the car.

And I m hoping that there is permanent solution for this?

Darragh29

Bobo78 wrote: »

Lads this car is really starting to annoy me now, just 3 days ago rocker cover gasket was repalced and it s started to leak again.:mad:
Do ye know is there any permanent solution for this?

Shouldn't be a problem if it was done right. This might also explain your valve train wear problem. If the engine ran low on oil due to it leaking out through the RC Gasket, this would explain accelerated wear on cam shims & camshaft.

Bobo78

Darragh29 wrote: »

Shouldn't be a problem if it was done right. This might also explain your valve train wear problem. If the engine ran low on oil due to it leaking out through the RC Gasket, this would explain accelerated wear on cam shims & camshaft.

Actually engines wasnt run low on oil, infact when I took the keys of the car and by the time I drove it home, I noticed that the stupid mechanic from who we purchased the car overfilled the oil by a bit, so I presumed that was the reason that engine was leaking oil on the rocker cover gasket area so I had a full service done and that gasket replaced. But since then engine is making that tappet noise and is now leaking again.
Do you think that that may be the cause of it??

I m really dissapointed with this car now.

Darragh29

Bobo78 wrote: »

Actually engines wasnt run low on oil, infact when I took the keys of the car and by the time I drove it home, I noticed that the stupid mechanic from who we purchased the car overfilled the oil by a bit, so I presumed that was the reason that engine was leaking oil on the rocker cover gasket area so I had a full service done and that gasket replaced. But since then engine is making that tappet noise and is now leaking again.
Do you think that that may be the cause of it??

I m really dissapointed with this car now.

Check that the rocker cover gasket is on tight for a start. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, it's nothing that can't be sorted out. The oil leaking from the RC gasket area isn't caused by the mechanic overfilling with oil. Any excess oil is down in the sump, unless the overfill is so bad that the oil is literally running out the top of the oil filler cap. Has this problem only started since the RC gasket was replaced and the service done? Before that, you had no problem, other than the RC gasket leaking, is this right?

Bobo78

Darragh29 wrote: »

Check that the rocker cover gasket is on tight for a start. I wouldn't lose sleep over it, it's nothing that can't be sorted out. The oil leaking from the RC gasket area isn't caused by the mechanic overfilling with oil. Any excess oil is down in the sump, unless the overfill is so bad that the oil is literally running out the top of the oil filler cap. Has this problem only started since the RC gasket was replaced and the service done? Before that, you had no problem, other than the RC gasket leaking, is this right?

No there was no other problem before that, problems started to appear when I drove the car home. First I noticed that oil was leaking through RCG and then I noticed that engine was overfilled with oil.
Following morning I took the car to my mechanic to let extra oil out, and then after few days (in the meantime ticking noise appeard) I brought the car for full service including changing the RCG.
So now 2 days after the service and RCG were done I noticed oil leaking again through RCG (and the noise is still there).