Tricolour ban for Irish gymnasts

Can'tseeme

Tricolour ban for Irish gymnasts



A council row has broken out over the flying of the Irish flag at a gymnastics competition in Newry. The Irish National Gymnastics Association tournament this weekend can play the Irish national anthem, but not fly the Irish flag, the council said.
Sinn Fein's Pat McGinn said councillors opposed to the move had "failed miserably" to promote tolerance.
UUP councillor Danny Kennedy said he did not want to see the council "naively used" by political elements.
Mr McGinn said, as a former mayor, he had attended events when the union flag was flown and the "British national anthem was played".
"It's sad that we have a national sporting championship and what we are doing is bringing it into a more complex row. We've turned it purely politically," he said.
Mr McGinn accused opponents of the proposal of referring to "foreigners" during the debate.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8035267.stm

---

So is this all part of the new era of respect and tolerance of identity and citizenship under the GFA?

Pedro K

Are they going down rugby route whereby there is one anthem for the whole of Ireland including N.I.?

Raiser

Anyone who has a problem with an Irish flag being flown in Ireland needs to fcuk off home.......

P. Breathnach

Raiser wrote: »

Anyone who has a problem with an Irish flag being flown in Ireland needs to fcuk off home.......

What if their home is in Ireland?

There seem also to be a lot of people in the republic who give themselves a problem with the union flag being flown here.

LordSutch

I can only presume that the row is beacuse the Irish National Gymnastic body wish to fly the Tricolour for the whole Gymnastics team (which includes NI members)? in which case, the Irish Gymnastics body & Sinn Fein are asking for friction.

Maybe somebody could clarify.

Raiser

P. Breathnach wrote: »

What if their home is in Ireland?

There seem also to be a lot of people in the republic who give themselves a problem with the union flag being flown here.

Hasn't the British Empire given back almost all of the Colonies it bullied its way into?

How many Countries are not entitled to fly their National flag within their own Country?

I think most reasonable people would concede that there is something inherently wrong in a given scenario where a National flag cannot be flown because some fat bullying, overgrown cnuts in fancy dress sashes and Bowler hats don't like it.

spank_inferno

God I wish Norn Iron would just piss off, you get tired of their crap.

I would pay money.... good money for a project to detach those counties from the republic and leave it to float into the atlantic. :rolleyes:

futurehope

If a sporting team represents The Island of Ireland, it should not fly the Republic's flag or use The Republic's anthem, as it represents two countries (or a country and another country's region). Or else it should also fly The Union Flag and play GSTQ as well. Alternatively, it should use a completely different flag and anthem.

Personally, I am totally opposed to 'All Ireland' teams (and indeed any other bodies). There is The ROI and there is Northern Ireland (British Ulster if you prefer), let's not confuse the two.

futurehope

spank_inferno wrote: »

God I wish Norn Iron would just piss off, you get tired of their crap.

I would pay money.... good money for a project to detach those counties from the republic and leave it to float into the atlantic. :rolleyes:

I'd second that.;)

Pedro K

futurehope wrote: »

If a sporting team represents The Island of Ireland, it should not fly the Republic's flag or use The Republic's anthem, as it represents two countries (or a country and another country's region). Or else it should also fly The Union Flag and play GSTQ as well. Alternatively, it should use a completely different flag and anthem.

There is a junior gymnastics competition held between Ireland, NI, Wales and Scotland every year called the Celtic cup.

Ireland and N.I. compete against each other in this, and the tricolour is flown for Ireland. They don't compete as an all-Ireland team.

It's a little sticky, because I know there are clubs in N.I. who are part of Irish Gymnastics.

But then again, I'm think northern Irish competitors don't compete for Ireland at world championships and olympics etc.
Or else they have a choice, like footballers.

I'm not sure about that though.

Nodin

Camelot wrote: »

I can only presume that the row is beacuse the Irish National Gymnastic body wish to fly the Tricolour for the whole Gymnastics team (which includes NI members)? in which case, the Irish Gymnastics body & Sinn Fein are asking for friction.

Maybe somebody could clarify.

There is a seperate gymnastic organisation for NI, as far as I'm aware. Also, the article states that this problem hasn't arisen before. I can't imagine that if it was that situation that would be the case.

Grudaire

futurehope wrote: »

Personally, I am totally opposed to 'All Ireland' teams (and indeed any other bodies). There is The ROI and there is Northern Ireland (British Ulster if you prefer), let's not confuse the two.

What about people who are equally opposed to the Union between Great Britain, and Northern Ireland?

And why can we not take the Island of Ireland as one whole block?

anonymous_joe

It might sound a bit silly, but would they be able to fly an Irish flag that's not the Republic's?

The Golden Harp on green field one (no idea what it's called) or something might be applicable?

Seems enormously childish of the Unionists, but ah well.

futurehope

Cliste wrote: »

What about people who are equally opposed to the Union between Great Britain, and Northern Ireland?

And why can we not take the Island of Ireland as one whole block?

Are you suggesting that all sporting events should be British Isles based (taken as one block)? What anthem would you suggest? I quite like Rule Brittania and The Union Jack would be more than appropriate as the flag as it includes the flag of 'St Patrick' which represents all of the island of Ireland.

:cool:

IIMII

An Irish flag in Ireland - imagine that. I think it's hilarious that one tenth of the population (or whatever it is) can cause so much hassle. I'd love to see them try this stuff in the Costa del Sol, and the Canaries and other off-shore enclaves which they have made their own.

To quote John Lennon's famous lyrics:

'You claim to be majority
Well you know that its a lie
You're really a minority
On this sweet emerald isle'

Can'tseeme

Camelot wrote: »

I can only presume that the row is beacuse the Irish National Gymnastic body wish to fly the Tricolour for the whole Gymnastics team (which includes NI members)? in which case, the Irish Gymnastics body & Sinn Fein are asking for friction.

Maybe somebody could clarify.

Read news reports of it today. It's a gymnastic competition for the island, held in Newry this year.

getz

IIMII wrote: »

An Irish flag in Ireland - imagine that. I think it's hilarious that one tenth of the population (or whatever it is) can cause so much hassle. I'd love to see them try this stuff in the Costa del Sol, and the Canaries and other off-shore enclaves which they have made their own.

To quote John Lennon's famous lyrics:

'You claim to be majority
Well you know that its a lie
You're really a minority
On this sweet emerald isle'

costa del sol enclaves and the canaries enclaves ? have you been reading that rupert book again ?

IIMII

To be honest, it's just a great pity. It should really just be about the competition

prinz

Raiser wrote: »

Anyone who has a problem with an Irish flag being flown in Ireland needs to fcuk off home.......

Given that the tricolour is the flag of the Republic of Ireland, could we tell Gerry Adams & co. to fcuk off home too? AFAIK they don't recognise the Republic as it was a 'British enforced partition state'.

Dublin_Gunner

How about they get rid of all flags, dont wear country colours, and merely compete as numbers?

Surely that should be non-patriotic enough for them.

Or how about they fly both the tri-colour, and the NI flags, and our anthem, as the North cant honestly say they have an anthem anyway.

Raiser

futurehope wrote: »

If a sporting team represents The Island of Ireland, it should not fly the Republic's flag or use The Republic's anthem, as it represents two countries (or a country and another country's region). Or else it should also fly The Union Flag and play GSTQ as well. Alternatively, it should use a completely different flag and anthem.

Personally, I am totally opposed to 'All Ireland' teams (and indeed any other bodies). There is The ROI and there is Northern Ireland (British Ulster if you prefer), let's not confuse the two.

The current situation regarding the 6 commandeered Counties of Northern Ireland is slightly sicking to any logical right-thinking Irish individual who happens to be in possession of all of the facts...... I don't particularly care what flag you want to be seen to be waving after that..... Fly a 40 foot Nazi one if it sits well with your finely tuned sensibilities.....

The only conciliatory fact is that the Unionists are regarded as stubborn, petulant, whining, squatting British Knackers by the Irish and irritating Irish Misfits by the British - NOBODY wants anything to do with them at this stage - if, for an example, a new strain of Orange Avian Flu wiped them out overnight then I'd suspect there'd be two new National Holidays created as a consequence......

prinz

Raiser wrote: »

The current situation regarding the 6 commandeered Counties of Northern Ireland is slightly sicking to any logical right-thinking Irish individual who happens to be in possession of all of the facts......

Funny, I don't feel sick at all.

oscarBravo

Raiser wrote: »

The current situation regarding the 6 commandeered Counties of Northern Ireland is slightly sicking to any logical right-thinking Irish individual who happens to be in possession of all of the facts...

What's substantially more sickening to this particular logical right-thinking Irish individual is being described as illogical and wrong-thinking just because I'm capable of recognising that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

LordSutch

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Read news reports of it today. It's a gymnastic competition for the island, held in Newry this year.

I did, hence my question ...................

Anyway, Nodin has answered it somewhat.

Can'tseeme

prinz wrote: »

Given that the tricolour is the flag of the Republic of Ireland, could we tell Gerry Adams & co. to fcuk off home too? AFAIK they don't recognise the Republic as it was a 'British enforced partition state'.

Sorry mate but it is the flag of Ireland and represents people who want it to represent them in the north.

Can'tseeme

Camelot wrote: »

I did, hence my question ...................

Anyway, Nodin has answered it somewhat.

Mate you got me wrong. I should have said I read a further report today saying it was an island wide competition.

prinz

Can'tseeme wrote: »

Sorry mate but it is the flag of Ireland and represents people who want it to represent them in the north.

It is the flag of the Republic and it represents far more than nationalists, and seeing it abused as a banner by the dregs of society, that sickens me. If people in the North want it to represent them, they're welcome to migrate here mate.

D-Boy

prinz wrote: »

It is the flag of the Republic and it represents far more than nationalists, and seeing it abused as a banner by the dregs of society, that sickens me. If people in the North want it to represent them, they're welcome to migrate here mate.

The same dregs who fought for YOUR freedom eh?
Hypocrisy much.
I dont see why Unionists feel threatened by the Republic most of the people are pro brit anti irish its a total joke.
The flag is that of the republic which as a fact represents 26 freee counties so its got no real place in the 6 occupied territories

Cue Futurehopes ramblings lol!

futurehope

IIMII wrote: »

An Irish flag in Ireland - imagine that. I think it's hilarious that one tenth of the population (or whatever it is) can cause so much hassle. I'd love to see them try this stuff in the Costa del Sol, and the Canaries and other off-shore enclaves which they have made their own.

To quote John Lennon's famous lyrics:

'You claim to be majority
Well you know that its a lie
You're really a minority
On this sweet emerald isle'

Not sure about your sunny resort references (although I do remember English tourists giving The Irish a good hiding at the time of The Drumcree stand off in one of those dumps;)).

As for Lennon, when you've take as much drugs as he did, it's inevitable you'll write the sort of garbage you've posted above.

futurehope

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

How about they get rid of all flags, dont wear country colours, and merely compete as numbers?

Surely that should be non-patriotic enough for them.

Or how about they fly both the tri-colour, and the NI flags, and our anthem, as the North cant honestly say they have an anthem anyway.

Why should people from Northern Ireland be interested in the anthem of a foreign country?

P. Breathnach

D-Boy wrote: »

... I dont see why Unionists feel threatened by the Republic most of the people are pro brit anti irish its a total joke...

If we are like that, why do the Nationalists in NI want anything to do with us?

[It is a logical impossibility for a majority of the people of Ireland to be anti-Irish, because if we share a sentiment, then it must be deemed an Irish sentiment.]

futurehope

Raiser said:

The current situation regarding the 6 commandeered Counties of Northern Ireland is slightly sicking to any logical right-thinking Irish individual who happens to be in possession of all of the facts...... I don't particularly care what flag you want to be seen to be waving after that..... Fly a 40 foot Nazi one if it sits well with your finely tuned sensibilities.....

Well, I'd have thought it would be Irish Republicans who would favour The Nazi flag, given the fact that they collaborated with them during WWII and have behaved like them ever since.

The only conciliatory fact is that the Unionists are regarded as stubborn, petulant, whining, squatting British Knackers by the Irish and irritating Irish Misfits by the British - NOBODY wants anything to do with them at this stage - if, for an example, a new strain of Orange Avian Flu wiped them out overnight then I'd suspect there'd be two new National Holidays created as a consequence......

[/QUOTE]

A bit like most decent people world wide celebrated the old spud famine...

Grudaire

futurehope wrote: »

Are you suggesting that all sporting events should be British Isles based (taken as one block)? What anthem would you suggest? I quite like Rule Brittania and The Union Jack would be more than appropriate as the flag as it includes the flag of 'St Patrick' which represents all of the island of Ireland.

:cool:

No, I'm suggesting that we take the whole of Europe as one block - we have a flag, and we can work on a multi-lingual anthem to suit.:rolleyes:

Lets cop on for a minute. You might like rule Brittania, but you should know that it really isn't a great song in Ireland given the fact that we had to fight our way out (26/32 *100)% of the ruling Brittania.


Since they're allowed to play the anthem why are they not letting the flag be flown (I mean if Unionists had something to complain about I'm sure the Anthem is more offensive then Green, White and Orange which I'm sure we all know is meant to promote peace between the two communities)

this isn't the first occasion this week that sporting organisations have been dragged into the political fray up North - By Unionists.

prinz

Cliste wrote: »

this isn't the first occasion this week that sporting organisations have been dragged into the political fray up North - By Unionists.

It's almost a reminder of how many GAA clubs in the North refused to play the old RUC and current PSNI GAA teams.

Grudaire

prinz wrote: »

It's almost a reminder of how many GAA clubs in the North refused to play the old RUC and current PSNI GAA teams.

But I'm glad they moved on!

oscarBravo

Cliste wrote: »

But I'm glad they moved on!

If only everybody would.

prinz

D-Boy wrote: »

The same dregs who fought for YOUR freedom eh?
Hypocrisy much.

The same scum who place it on the coffin of dead murderers, drug dealers, etc. Who say they can execute two young unarmed soldiers supposedly in it's name. They don't represent me, they don't reflect what this country is.


It is the flag of a Republic and should be treated as such, and not abused by terrorists.

prinz

Cliste wrote: »

But I'm glad they moved on!

Many northern clubs still refuse to play them.

getz

Cliste wrote: »

No, I'm suggesting that we take the whole of Europe as one block - we have a flag, and we can work on a multi-lingual anthem to suit.:rolleyes:

Lets cop on for a minute. You might like rule Brittania, but you should know that it really isn't a great song in Ireland given the fact that we had to fight our way out (26/32 *100)% of the ruling Brittania.


Since they're allowed to play the anthem why are they not letting the flag be flown (I mean if Unionists had something to complain about I'm sure the Anthem is more offensive then Green, White and Orange which I'm sure we all know is meant to promote peace between the two communities)

this isn't the first occasion this week that sporting organisations have been dragged into the political fray up North - By Unionists.

i am sure like minded people can come up with some sort of answer -but republic would have to change some of the provocative words in their anthem if its to be excepted by the brit/irish

Grudaire

oscarBravo wrote: »

If only everybody would.

Well issues need resolving. If for instance a majority in favour of a United Ireland emerged in the 6 counties would the Unioists accept the democratic view of the Northern Irish (Or would we end up with a thirty county Republic, and a two county Northern Ireland?!)

There is a fundamental difference in opinion. What's more it is an unsolvable one. Either way in the interest of peace in the area people should only focus their complaints on current problems, no point in giving out about the past. Where will we stop with that argument?

Can'tseeme

Cliste wrote: »

Since they're allowed to play the anthem why are they not letting the flag be flown (I mean if Unionists had something to complain about I'm sure the Anthem is more offensive then Green, White and Orange which I'm sure we all know is meant to promote peace between the two communities)

Excellent point.

oscarBravo wrote: »

If only everybody would.

Agreed. People need to grow up and show a bit more tolerance. The GFA was meant to signify a moving away from the past, to show repect and tolerance for ALL communities. Whether people like it or not, nationalists in the north see the flag as representing them.

Raiser

oscarBravo wrote: »

What's substantially more sickening to this particular logical right-thinking Irish individual is being described as illogical and wrong-thinking just because I'm capable of recognising that Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

Just because I am capable of recognising that the Taliban is part of modern day Afghanistan doesn't mean that the situation is desirable, sustainable, reasonable or, please God for all concerned, permanent.

- Although to compare like with like - I never saw the the Taliban out shouting virulent and shameful abuse at tiny schoolchildren trying to make their way to primary school.......

IIMII

futurehope wrote: »

although I do remember English tourists giving The Irish a good hiding at the time of The Drumcree stand off in one of those dumps;)

Such wonderful tourists to have visit your country

oscarBravo

Cliste wrote: »

Well issues need resolving. If for instance a majority in favour of a United Ireland emerged in the 6 counties would the Unioists accept the democratic view of the Northern Irish (Or would we end up with a thirty county Republic, and a two county Northern Ireland?!)

I'm still waiting for many Republicans to accept the democratic view expressed by the vast majority in 1998 that Northern Ireland is in the UK.

Grudaire

getz wrote: »

i am sure like minded people can come up with some sort of answer -but republic would have to change some of the provocative words in their anthem if its to be excepted by the brit/irish

I'm against changing the anthem, although it may be a way to go. Although I can't find any particularly offending words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers_song. The song is about fighting to gain freedom - I don't see why an Irish state which earned its freedom through liberal use of the gun would be wrong in having that as it's national anthem. (not to mention it'll straight up hyjacked by Sinn Féin, and I'm not sure which side I'd be on either...)

prinz wrote: »

Many northern clubs still refuse to play them.

I honestly don't know about that - you hardly have a link that I can read about it (Not saying that you're wrong - it really wouldn't be beyond the realms of imagination). Also I could understand why clubs wouldn't want to play them, and for reasons far less petty then the tricolour complaints

dlofnep

More bigotry in the occupied 6. If they identify themselves as "Irish" - then let them fly the Irish flag.

Grudaire

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'm still waiting for many Republicans to accept the democratic view expressed by the vast majority in 1998 that Northern Ireland is in the UK.

Aren't we all?

Still Rome wasn't built in a day, and I would hope that your views on the entire Nationalist population would not be tainted by this minority.

oscarBravo

Raiser wrote: »

Just because I am capable of recognising that the Taliban is part of modern day Afghanistan doesn't mean that the situation is desirable, sustainable, reasonable or, please God for all concerned, permanent.

When there's a referendum in Afghanistan where more than 90% express their support for the status quo, come back to me.

- Although to compare like with like - I never saw the the Taliban out shouting virulent and shameful abuse at tiny schoolchildren trying to make their way to primary school.......

Nope, those angelic Taliban types would never do anything that nasty.

getz

Cliste wrote: »

I'm against changing the anthem, although it may be a way to go. Although I can't find any particularly offending words: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers_song. The song is about fighting to gain freedom - I don't see why an Irish state which earned its freedom through liberal use of the gun would be wrong in having that as it's national anthem. (not to mention it'll straight up hyjacked by Sinn Féin, and I'm not sure which side I'd be on either...)



I honestly don't know about that - you hardly have a link that I can read about it (Not saying that you're wrong - it really wouldn't be beyond the realms of imagination). Also I could understand why clubs wouldn't want to play them, and for reasons far less petty then the tricolour complaints

the only woods in it i would like to change is ;the saxon foe; and dont tell me its about the germans-remember GSTQ hasent any anti /any race words in it -its just about an old dear who represents the uk and northern ireland-not matter what the bigots claim .

oscarBravo

Cliste wrote: »

Still Rome wasn't built in a day, and I would hope that your views on the entire Nationalist population would not be tainted by this minority.

I respect anyone's right to aspire to Irish unification, as long as it's solely and exclusively by peaceful political means.

For the record, and on-topic, I think it's depressing that people get themselves so worked up about emblems and symbols like flags. Whether it's people complaining about an Irish team flying an Irish flag, or the hysteria that greeted the posting of a picture of a Union Jack on a Politics thread some time back, it would all be laughable if it weren't symptomatic of a deep malaise.

Grudaire

getz wrote: »

the only woods in it i would like to change is ;the saxon foe; and dont tell me its about the germans-remember GSTQ hasent any anti /any race words in it -its just about an old dear who represents the uk and northern ireland-not matter what the bigots claim .

I think that I can handle a word from the third verse being taken out. Ironically the Irish version uses the word 'bíoba' - ie enemy/foe (according to my dictionary here it has no Saxon conoctations)

I didn't say anywhere that it wasn't about the British, I actually meant that short of going with a totally different song the underlying theme is going to be a problem.

It most definitely is about the occupation of Ireland by the English, and I'm proud that we got them out. And I sing it proudly whenever the occasion suits.