[US/IRL] 5X15 - "Follow the Leader" [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

Sad Professor

- WARNING: THIS THREAD WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN "FOLLOW THE LEADER" -

Episode Title: "Follow the Leader"
Airdate: May 6th 2009

Synopsis (from TV.Com):

Jack and Kate find themselves at odds over the direction to take to save their fellow island survivors, Locke further solidifies his stance as leader of "The Others," and Sawyer and Juliet come under scrutiny from the Dharma Initiative.

Next New Episode: 5X16 & 17 - May 13th 2009 - Season Finale

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SPOILER WARNING:

From now on, this thread shall reveal details of the episode mentioned above. If you have not yet seen this episode, please do not move any further down the thread.

This episode shall air on:

ABC (US) - May 6th 2009
RTÉ (IRL) - May 10th 2009

If you are sure you have seen the episode as mentioned above (on the channels on those original airdates), you can move down further in order to discuss the episode.

Otherwise, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - there shall be major plot details of the episode revealed and discussed below with no spoiler tags used!

Anima

5

Well that was okish, basically just setting up the finale. Should be good hopefully.

abelard

6

Agree with the above.

Good, solid episode, but obivously most of the exciting action was always going to be held back for next week.

Most surprising part of the ep for me was Sawyer, Juliette and Kate getting on the sub - I wonder where that arc will go.

And I actually enjoyed Jack/Kate interactions for a change, I like their conflict of ideas about whether blowing jughead is the right thing to do.

Agamemnon

7

Good stuff, setting the scene for the finale nicely. Watching Hurley trying to bluff Candle was funny.

Locke planning to kill Jacob was a good twist but why does he need all the Others with him? We should see Christian in the next episode so, and hopefully Claire too.

I'm not surprised Kate is against detonating the bomb because if Flight 815 landed in LA as planned, she'll be going to prison. But it doesn't look like they'll succeed in changing anything in the future - so far everything is happening just like it did the first time, with young Miles and Charlotte being evacuated from the island.

Sad Professor

8

Brilliant episode! Great build-up to the finale, along with some great character moments without the drag of flashback scenes telling us stuff we already knew. A definite contender for my favourite episode of the season. I hope we get more all-island episodes like this next year.

What is Richard and Ben hiding about Jacob? Is it as simple as Jacob not wanting to be seen, or is it something else? Jacob said "help me", not exactly the words of someone in a powerful position.

Given that Jacob is probably dead already, I don't think Locke's plan will amount to much. But what's up with Locke? Is he really following the will of the island?

Richard and the ship in the bottle would seem to indicate that the Others are descendants or survivors of the Black Rock. The Captain of the Black Rock was Magnus Hanso who according to the blast door map is buried somewhere on the island. Could Jacob be Hanso?

Zeouterlimits

8

Fantastic episode, much better that last week (Daniel :-( ).
Hope Jack cops on though, I fear he'll be mopey and feeling guilty if he ends up causing bad things.

DeepBlue

7

Great episode. You gotta love that crazy bastard Locke .

Of course the episode would have been the best ever if they had actually shot Kate. Dammit Sayid!!!

PirateShampoo

8

Sad Professor wrote: »

Brilliant episode! Great build-up to the finale, along with some great character moments without the drag of flashback scenes telling us stuff we already knew. A definite contender for my favourite episode of the season. I hope we get more all-island episodes like this next year.

What is Richard and Ben hiding about Jacob? Is it as simple as Jacob not wanting to be seen, or is it something else? Jacob said "help me", not exactly the words of someone in a powerful position.

Given that Jacob is probably dead already, I don't think Locke's plan will amount to much. But what's up with Locke? Is he really following the will of the island?

Richard and the ship in the bottle would seem to indicate that the Others are descendants or survivors of the Black Rock. The Captain of the Black Rock was Magnus Hanso who according to the blast door map is buried somewhere on the island. Could Jacob be Hanso?

Im going with the theory that Jacob is being contained some how. Remember the Red ash around the cabin. Maybe Lock needs to kill him to free him.

kronsington

really enjoyed this week's episode-

thought all the main players- locke, alpert, ben, jack- were great

is it just me, or does anyone give a sh1t about kate as a character?

nice bit of foreshadowing at the start with richard and the miniture ship and when ben says richard has had his role as an advisor on the island for a "very, very long time"

overall, a very good episode.

let's hope the season finale lives up to/surpasses that of previous seasons.

[-0-]

7

Good episode. As previously stated, sets up the finale nicely. So we have Sayid who's gonna figure out how to blow the hydrogen bomb, and Locke going to visit Jacob, with the intention of killing him.

I wonder how the Oceanic guys die.

I don't want this season to end. I can't wait until January again.

Patricide

8

Class episisode, hurly trying to bluff was brilliant, eloise saying that she watched jack and co die was a pretty big bombshell and of course locke saying he was going to kill Jacob.

Just a thought, maybe when locke said he was going to kill jacob did anyone else get the idea that maybe that jacob doesnt exist. That he was just going to kill the idea of "jacob" so that the people of the island wouldnt live bowing down to this greater being... i dunno, all i say is i cant FOOKING wait till next week.

PullMyFinger!

6

Very good episode.

I think Richard might not be the good guy we think he is.

claiva

8

Patricide wrote: »

Class episisode, hurly trying to bluff was brilliant, eloise saying that she watched jack and co die was a pretty big bombshell and of course locke saying he was going to kill Jacob.

Just a thought, maybe when locke said he was going to kill jacob did anyone else get the idea that maybe that jacob doesnt exist. That he was just going to kill the idea of "jacob" so that the people of the island wouldnt live bowing down to this greater being... i dunno, all i say is i cant FOOKING wait till next week.

Don't you mean Richard ?
Didn't he say it to Sun ?

Handsome Bob

8

You broke my heart John Locke.:( I could go with the flow if he had just said he was going to kill Jacob because as someone already mentioned maybe he would need to kill Jacob in order to free him. But the way he callously said that he didn't care about his people and was lying to Sun, that was just stone cold. Locke's evil, never saw it coming....

MikeHoncho

Patricide wrote: »

Just a thought, maybe when locke said he was going to kill jacob did anyone else get the idea that maybe that jacob doesnt exist. That he was just going to kill the idea of "jacob" so that the people of the island wouldnt live bowing down to this greater being... i dunno, all i say is i cant FOOKING wait till next week.

This is what I think also. But then what was in the cabin?

pyramuid man

Anyone else find sun supremely annoying in this episode?

Agamemnon

7

[-0-] wrote: »

So we have Sayid who's gonna figure out how to blow the hydrogen bomb

How would an Iraqi know how to detonate a nuke? Jaysus, Saddam had WMDs all along, hidden on the Lost island! :eek:

claiva

8

pyramuid man wrote: »

Anyone else find sun supremely annoying in this episode?

Yes - as well as every other episode actually.

[-0-]

7

Agamemnon wrote: »

How would an Iraqi know how to detonate a nuke? Jaysus, Saddam had WMDs all along, hidden on the Lost island! :eek:

Hehehe

PullMyFinger!

6

pyramuid man wrote: »

Anyone else find sun supremely annoying in this episode?

I want to stick my thingy into her thingy.

Patricide

8

MikeHoncho wrote: »

This is what I think also. But then what was in the cabin?

Im stumped on that one....the monster? It showed that it could take human form when it turned into bens daughter?

eddiehead

People, Jacob is real, if it were to come about that he wasn't real I would stop watching the show.

Psychedelic

9

That episode was ****ing brilliant. Locke was on fire the whole episode, he's totally ruling the roost now. Loved the way he just dropped that bombshell so calmly about killing Jacob, "So I can kill him". I don't think anyone could see that one coming. I actually burst out laughing when he said it, was totally gobsmacked, and the WTF look on Ben's face was priceless.

Here it is again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-67R4WcwI

People, Jacob is real, if it were to come about that he wasn't real I would stop watching the show

Na he's some sort of ghost from what we've seen of him sure, he can't be real, it would actually be surprising if he was real.

Sherifu

8

It was pretty good, crappy sub cgi aside.

Patricide

8

Ah the sub/plane/island cg always looks terrible in fairness..

DeepBlue

7

I presume from this episode that Richard can be in two places at once?

madrab

only 1 place at a time, we just happened to see 2 different times

Psychedelic

9

DeepBlue wrote: »

I presume from this episode that Richard can be in two places at once?

How's that? If anyone was in two places at once it was Locke.

[-0-]

7

DeepBlue wrote: »

I presume from this episode that Richard can be in two places at once?

LOL - different timelines mate.

DeepBlue

7

[-0-] wrote: »

LOL - different timelines mate.

Are you sure?

Edit- Ah yeah, forgot that Locke is in present day (well 2007) while the others are in Dharmaville sometime in the 70's.

Also Starring LeVar Burton

8

Decent enough episode. Roll on finale - it's bound to be epic.

[-0-]

7

DeepBlue wrote: »

Are you sure?

Edit- Ah yeah, forgot that Locke is in present day (well 2007) while the others are in Dharmaville sometime in the 70's.

Hehe.. sure can get confusing at times!! Especially when Richard doesn't age.

Handsome Bob

8

There HAS to be a Jacob. For fuck sake we heard him say "help me" to John. Surely they can't just turn around and have John kill "the myth" of Jacob. I cannot however explain Richard's reluctance in bringing John to Jacob.

tony1kenobi

eddiehead wrote: »

People, Jacob is real, if it were to come about that he wasn't real I would stop watching the show.

Mod edit: Spoiler removed

Sad Professor

8

tony1kenobi:

No finale spoilers in here please. Even behind tags, people get very very pissed.

DonkeyStyle \o/

7

I think there's some shít-stirring coming from Ben, confiding in John these things that Richard supposedly said... and at the same time agreeing with Richard that John's a handful, and "why do you think I tried to kill him".
I think Ben's up to his old tricks again, but John is so in touch with the island that he knows exactly how to take care of Ben... I think they're all going to Jacob so Ben can be publically destroyed/discredited in front of his people... maybe John had other reasons for telling Ben he was going to kill Jacob... or he's just going to kill Ben's version of Jacob. John accused Ben of never having seen Jacob, I wonder does he also doubt that Ben has heard Jacob... that he's been leading the others not with Jacob's words, but with his own.

Pretty good episode anyway, lots of changes in the landscape, which is nice.

mr_angry

8

Its also possible that Locke needs to kill Jacob in the same way that Locke needed to die himself. Then again, we know so little about Jacob, its hard to say anything with any certainty. I'm curious to see what Christian Shepherd's stance is on things.

Locke doesn't seem to be getting much wrong lately though.

eddiehead

Psychedelic wrote: »

Na he's some sort of ghost from what we've seen of him sure, he can't be real, it would actually be surprising if he was real.

Yea, but that means he is real, be he a ghost or whatever, not just an imaginary figure made up to control the regular Others

Draupnir

can someone delete the post with the finale spoilers in it, tossers who post thing like that in episode threads should be getting bans. Just having a spoiler tag preceded by the word Jacob gives enough away.

There are no priZes for ruining five years of enjoyment for people, so why be a tool?

Basq

To be honest.. I've banned tony1kenobi for 2 weeks for a few reasons:

1) Spoilers for future episodes are not welcome whatsoever.. and he's been here long enough to know better.
2) I had to come into a discussion thread for an episode I haven't even watched yet.
3) Lucky Bond-007 got there first and removed the spoiler or he would have been Perma-banned.

This is the one element of moderating the Television forums.. I hate people who spoil future plotlines and it's my responsibility to open threads containing these and remove them!

tipp86

Im confused with the locke bullet scenario ! Anyone else find it odd, just boggled me a bit !

Liber8or

tipp86 wrote: »

Im confused with the locke bullet scenario ! Anyone else find it odd, just boggled me a bit !

I guess he is just playing his role, in time. Remember, the flashes meant those trapped in the loop could move back AND forward. So, Locke made sure that whatever happened, happened. He guaranteed his existence on the Island now, by telling "Flashing Locke" to die and bring the others back to the Island.

On another note, I know it makes no sense, but i keep looking at the characters in the background, during the final scene of this episode, to see if they bare any resemblance to people of the Oceanic flight 815. The writers have challenged all avenues and thresholds of comprehension with the series of LOST, so i wont dismiss the possibility that the people Locke is surrounded by are infact those from 815. Call me crazy, but anything is possible.

Tragamin2k2

8

tipp86 wrote: »

Im confused with the locke bullet scenario ! Anyone else find it odd, just boggled me a bit !

What put me into a daze was the compass, who actually owns it and where did it come from? its just going around in a loop over the years

Spider_Baby!

Guys, i just had a bit of a crazy thought, which came about from an earlier post in the thread \9somebodys confusion over 2 Richards)...

There has been mention of what Christian Shepherds thoughts are, but...what if thats actually 1977 Jack 30 years later, and not really his Dad???

Sad Professor

8

Tragamin2k2 wrote: »

What put me into a daze was the compass, who actually owns it and where did it come from? its just going around in a loop over the years

Yeah we were talking about the problem of the compass back at the start of the season. I suggested at the time that it didn't come from anywhere and was just part of the causal loop.

However, as was pointed out to me then, this introduces an ontological paradox which is especially problematic with physical items such as the compass as it would continue to age or rust and would eventually break. This messes up what should be a perfectly logical causal loop in which only cause and effect are in a loop and events themselves only happen once.

A better explanation would have been that the compass was destroyed and replaced sometime between 1955 and 2007 and therefore had an origin. This episodes suggests it is the same compass.

Basically, the writers screwed up. We just have to disregard Alpert's rust comment and assume that the compass is magic. pfft.

kingpin55

Know its a bit off topic, but does anyone know how the stewardess and some children, upon seeing jack locked in a cage seemed strangely aloof, as if they couldnt understand y jack was so mad??

Sorry for phrasing of the question!

steve 0

Shenanigans! What a set up for the finale, some of it seemed predictable::
Jack and Sayid are the hero wannabes once again making the wrong decision that will guarantee the future happens the same way it happened for them (I think) :rolleyes:
Having said that, they through some massive curve balls:
3 of them heading off in the sub
"I'm starting to think John Locke is going to be trouble"
"So I can kill him" :eek:
That's all without any sign of the new gang and their jack in the box surprise, whatever the hell it is.
Much as I'm looking forward to the double bill I am dreading the thought of months and months of waiting.

DonkeyStyle \o/

7

steve 0 wrote: »

That's all without any sign of the new gang and their jack in the box surprise, whatever the hell it is.

It's the magic box that Ben was telling Locke about.

/gets his coat

♠Jay♠

8

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode. It wasn't what I expected it to be (I was hoping for a Richard origin story), but at the same time, I was very happy it was what it was.

Locke seems to be very baddass, I enjoyed Terry O'Quinn, Nestor Carbonell and Michael Emerson munching scenery together so much I had a nerdgasm.

cooker3

Really nice episode. Great set-up to next weeks finale. The finales always deliver every season and I expect no less of this years version.
I really loved Locke in this episode, nice touch at the start with the bore and the season 1 crocodile Locke music. Anytime Locke, Ben and Richard are together on screen then I am happy.

I was a bit bothered by Kate and Cheng. Why did she even go back to the island, not like she has achieved anything by journeying back. She didn't even try to find out what happened to Claire, you would think she at least ask?

As for Cheng, maybe I forgot something in the previous episode but he seemed to have a big change of heart from not believing Faraday to suddenly believing without any reason which for a scientist seems rather questionable. Especially doing something as dramatic as evacuating the island and leaving his wife and child.

There are a huge amount of threads going into the finale. What will happen with the sub and Kate, Sawyer and Juliet. Will we see Jacob? Why does Locke want to kill him? What are Ben and Richard hiding? Where are the other flight 316 people. What will Iliana and her group do and who allegiance do they hold. Will the attempted detonation of the hydrogen bomb inadvertently cause the incident? Where the hell is Desmond and Penny. I wouldn't be shocked if he didn't appear in the finale with the way this season has gone.
Anyway roll on next week!

PullMyFinger!

6

Sad Professor wrote: »

tony1kenobi:

No finale spoilers in here please. Even behind tags, people get very very pissed.

Thanks.

Id have hunted him down and killed him.