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N40 - Cork City Northern Transportation Project (formerly North Ring Road) [feasibility study]

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Yeah in the official NRA language, a 3 level stack is freeflow. Rathmorrisey is Free Flow, even though its not.

    Also the Red Cow is freeflow, despite the Turnpike traffic lights!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭mysterious


    Three stacks are not freeflow. NRA get those smart hats back on!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,276 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Also the Red Cow is freeflow, despite the Turnpike traffic lights!

    Turnpike traffic lights aren't on a national route, though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    True, but the "Red Cow interchange" as a whole is a freeflow junction, so Turnpike is part of it in my book ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Well the good news is that I've heard back from the NRA and they've said this ->
    The junction at Killydonoghue is proposed as a full free flow junction for traffic wanting to move between the N8 and the Cork Northern Ring Road. This is significantly different to the outline junction layouts included in the route selection report.

    Good news. What they mean by full-freeflow I dont know, but its better than the cack that was proposed originally!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    Good news. What they mean by full-freeflow I dont know, but its better than the cack that was proposed originally!

    Well I hope so... if the EIS was published this month (as scheduled originally) we would know soon, if not already.

    But this is good news none-the-less.

    Also, surprised to see the NRA still replying to you Chris. :D They've probably blocked me from their account... can't have somebody asking *difficult* questions now can we?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,082 ✭✭✭Chris_533976


    Took them 3 weeks :( But lots of infos :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,810 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    and another wee question

    the western route after coming across the lee hits a dual carraigeway with currently 2 roundabouts skirting Ballincollig.

    Is it planned to get rid of these roundabouts at Ballincollig and how is the Western ring to tie onto the existing Cork/ Tralee Dualcaraigeway? Will the existing roundabout junction be upgraded.

    Or will the whole scheme just start/ end there at Carrigrohane and leave everything else from there to the N25 as it currently is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    BluntGuy wrote: »
    According to the PPP documentation, the M20/N21 junction will be free-flow, the N22/M8 junction will be free-flow and the M20/N22 junction will be free-flow.

    After seeing the proposed M20/N21 junction design...

    I have almost no confidence in the other two. I expect a triple-stack for the M20/N22 junction and some sort of messy roundabout set-up with some lame free-flow slips for the M20/N22 junction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 148 ✭✭parkerpen


    Interesting thread. Read things here I never knew. Well done!!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    It's so depressing seeing poor T junctions being designed for future roads when the N28/N25 junction shows how it should be. full freeflow.

    Just don't have any other junction close to any of the 3 legs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭invincibleirish


    I'll just repeat once more the fallacy of not including the western section of the NRR, why oh why do the NRA have to do everything half arsed in the Cork City area?.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭BluntGuy


    It's so depressing seeing poor T junctions being designed for future roads when the N28/N25 junction shows how it should be. full freeflow.

    Indeed it is. :(

    I'm hoping the NRA have gone back to the drawing board for their M20/N22 and N22/M8 junctions. The junction designs we've seen are old ones prepared many years back...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    The NRA has suspended the West section of the North Ring Road, while the East section (M20 to the M8) is "subject to final design".

    The East section was coupled with the M20 Southern Section in the first PPP brochure the NRA released in 2009 - does anyone still have this, and, if they do, could they attach it to this thread?

    I really think that for the sake of 10 km they should include the western section too. I'm not sure what good the Eastern section will do on its own.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    As far as I know the CNRR Eastern section (M8-M20) has been removed from the M20 South PPP. Havent seen it in any of the recent maps, although the Adare bypass is still in with M20 north.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    As far as I know the CNRR Eastern section (M8-M20) has been removed from the M20 South PPP. Havent seen it in any of the recent maps, although the Adare bypass is still in with M20 north.

    What recent maps are you referring to? Any images you could post? Bloody disaster if the NRR has been entirely removed from the PPP as far as I'm concerned.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Dan Boyle has probably killed it off by now.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Dan Boyle has probably killed it off by now.

    Did you say last March in the M20 thread that the EIS for the NRR was due to be published this autumn? The western half appears to have been killed off (and yes, Dan Boyle probably bears some responsibility for that). But the east/north section was listed as being at the finalisation stage by the NRA in that scheme progress update brochure they released a good few months ago (attached).


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    My _guess_ is that it is dead, timing the EIS release behind that M20 oral hearing bodes ill.

    Dempsey only allocated €360k to the project in FY 2010 and allocated €9m to the M20 in the same allocations.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Dempsey only allocated €360k to the project in FY 2010 and allocated €9m to the M20 in the same allocations.

    Do you have access to allocations made for all schemes in FY 2010?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    No, a PQ would be required to get the breakdown. You may remember that I examined some of them HERE and found that in some counties the sums allocated were frequently for projects that finished years ago.

    On that list Cavan is to get €7.5m but half of that is for a road that will not start in 2010 and therefore the real sum is more like €4m max.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I never saw that thread at the time and hence it wasn't tagged. I've done that now.

    Anyway, since the North Ring forms an important part of the Atlantic Corridor I expect the east/north section at least will survive. I'm awaiting a response from the NRA to a number of questions, one of which relates to the fate of the North Ring/M20 Southern Section PPP coupling.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It would be possible to conduct an Oral Hearing on the NRR in 2011 and recouple the 2 projects thereafter unless the 2 hearings recommended an imcompatible interconnector between them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    It would be possible to conduct an Oral Hearing on the NRR in 2011 and recouple the 2 projects thereafter unless the 2 hearings recommended an imcompatible interconnector between them.

    And we've seen, based on Isaac's unsuccessful challenge to the New Ross Bypass in court earlier this year, that the NRA can decide to decouple and recouple parcelled PPP projects without too much issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I cant remember where I saw it, but definately I saw a pic of the M20 route somewhere with the Adare bypass attached, but no CNRR East :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    Latest I have from the NRA about this is as follows:
    Consultants have been appointed to prepare tender documents for the M20 Southern Section between Blarney and north of Buttevant. It is currently intended that this work will be complete by the end of this year which is also the anticipated time for the decision from An Bord Pleanala on the overall M20 scheme. This scheme will not include any part of the Cork Northern Ring Road as the EIS and CPO/MO documentation for this scheme have not yet been published.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,844 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    MO documentation means that the CNRR might be motorway :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    MO documentation means that the CNRR might be motorway :D

    It should be, it'll link two motorways


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    According to this map on the NRA website, the M8 Glanmire bypass will be redesignated as the N40 and incorporated into the North ring, when it is built.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,541 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    Amtmann wrote: »
    According to this map on the NRA website, the M8 Glanmire bypass will be redesignated as the N40 and incorporated into the North ring, when it is built.

    Certainly makes sense.

    Bigger question is whether the mainline will be switched so that the road will continue west as the N40 at Glanmire. Doubtful I suppose consider the extra work it would ensue. Plus there would maybe less traffic staying on the mainline in that scenario.


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