Does anybody else every find the culture of sex depressing?

LegacyUser

I dont know why this is. I'm 19, male and, for the record, not a virgin. I find the thought of people I grew up with throughout school having sex depressing.

The thought of people in my college class getting with each other and making love makes me feel some sort of depressing feeling, as if its no big deal to them, when to me sex used to be the biggest deal in the world, something for adults...i cant articulate myself!!..

I find the thought of people who are 15, 16 and even younger having sex really depressing. I dont find it depressing that they might be doing drungs, smoking or drinking; its just the fact that they might be having sex I didnt have sex till a while after that and it depresses me to think that I missed out on it when I was that age; it would have been a far bigger deal then, and much, much more exciting.

When I read a post by somebody the other day in this forum saying how he'll never forget "all the orgies at college" it made me feel horrible, as if people who sit in my lectures at college might be doing this and not considering it a big deal. I'd never be able to take part in something like that, or do anything with/in front of more than one person...it just seems so cold and loveless

Before I had sex I must have googled for virginity statistics loads of times, hoping to find stats saying that the average age for losing it is at least 18, just to make me believe that teenagers arn't generally doing it at a depressingly young age.

I'm not sure how to articulate what I'm thinking, but I assure you I'm not trolling. I'm wondering does anybody else find the culture of 16/17 year olds having sex and the thought of taking part in an orgy or having sex in front of somebody depressing?

LegacyUser

Yes, to answer your question, I do too. I think it's such a pity, as it rarely involves something meaningful. Its often drink-fuelled, keeping up with the Jones' stuff!

Something else strikes me, though. Do you have some other issue you need to deal with? You use the word "depressing" a lot and talk about the people in your lectures as if it's you versus them.....

Mr. Incognito

Why are you getting hung up on what everyone else is doing?

Seriously mate, who cares. Just live your own life the way you want to and ignore the rest. Most of it is bull anyway. It's the minority out there having orgies and a lot of people talking rubbish.

Long story short- there are better things to worry about.

monellia

I find it depressing how sex seems to fuel human behaviour and how society places so much emphasis on it. A genuine platonic connection between a man and a woman seems to be a very rare thing. I see typical sexual relationships as involving a lot of manipulation and deception, either mutually or from one of the parties. And a lot of it is subconscious manipulation, especially with men. Sex makes relationships so ingenuine. I'm not comfortable with that.

Wibbs

I have to agree with Mr. Incognito on this. Live your own life not someone elses. Live by your rules so long as they don't affect others badly or even yourself badly.

monellia wrote:

I find it depressing how sex seems to fuel human behaviour and how society places so much emphasis on it

While the current society makes a bit much of it, it is part and parcel of romantic relationship and part and parcel of the male female dynamic. On a purely biological level it's why we get into relationships. To make little copies of ourselves and sex is how we go about it.

A genuine platonic connection between a man and a woman seems to be a very rare thing.

I dunno, it's not that rare IMHO.

I see typical sexual relationships as involving a lot of manipulation and deception, either mutually or from one of the parties. And a lot of it is subconscious manipulation, especially with men.

I disagree. Women can be just as bad.

Sex makes relationships so ingenuine. I'm not comfortable with that.

Bad sex or manipulation using sex makes relationships ingenuine. Healthy sexual expression helps foster good relationships

monellia

I'm not arguing whether it's right or wrong ffs, I said I find it depressing :rolleyes:

Wibbs

Then like the OP, ask yourself why you find it depressing and then work from there. If of course it actually effects your life. If not, then no biggie.

prinz

I blame the media, in all it's forms. Sad fact about it is sex sells....... and the view that sex is a worthless commodity which can be bought and sold, with no forethought or commitment is permeating through society, down to the very youngest. It's particularly evident in this country. Disgusting really how sexualised kids are becoming.

Hagar

The world isn't becoming more sexualized, it always was that way.
The drive to reproduce is our most basic instinct, apart perhaps from survival - for long enough to reproduce.
Deep down we are still animals, maybe not just deep down either.

prinz

Hagar wrote: »

The world isn't becoming more sexualized, it always was that way.
The drive to reproduce is our most basic instinct, apart perhaps from survival - for long enough to reproduce.
Deep down we are still animals, maybe not just deep down either.

Try to grasp the idea of the difference between sex, and the abuse of sexuality. Then you may understand my point. People have never been as exposed to the same level of sexualisation as today, particularly children.

pwd

prinz wrote: »

I blame the media, in all it's forms. Sad fact about it is sex sells....... and the view that sex is a worthless commodity which can be bought and sold, with no forethought or commitment is permeating through society, down to the very youngest. It's particularly evident in this country. Disgusting really how sexualised kids are becoming.

Yes.
The way most girls dress going out these days would have been seen as shockingly slutty ten years ago. This coincides with a similar trend in the level of sex in music videos, and the coming of age of the Spice Girls children.
I think that the media encourages the mentality that women are products to be bought and sold, in order to sell things. Girls - Spend money on overpriced onanistic sh!te, because you're worth it - show how expensive you are! Guys - earn lots and buy status symbols, so you can afford this narcisistic spoilt b!tch you're shallow enough to be attracted to!
That and the way being a slapper is presented as some warped form of feminism.

You should read Brave New World by Huxley

Communicator

OP, when you say 'depressing', which you've stated many times, do you mean sad? Appalled? Disgusted? I find the word depressing a very general term.

I'm a bit lost as to how thinking about other young people having sex, might actually depress you? Is it because you're not having it an you want it? Or is it that you see sex as an act of love and you think they don't respect it? Perhaps there's another word you could use that might explain your question better?

seraphimvc

pwd wrote: »

Yes.
The way most girls dress going out these days would have been seen as shockingly slutty ten years ago. This coincides with a similar trend in the level of sex in music videos, and the coming of age of the Spice Girls children.
I think that the media encourages the mentality that women are products to be bought and sold, in order to sell things. Girls - Spend money on overpriced onanistic sh!te, because you're worth it - show how expensive you are! Guys - earn lots and buy status symbols, so you can afford this narcisistic spoilt b!tch you're shallow enough to be attracted to!
That and the way being a slapper is presented as some warped form of feminism.

You should read Brave New World by Huxley

^^like the man said :pac:

but really OP,surely this is not an PI at all?is more like a thread belongs to AH - this is a more general discussion than your personal issue.

personally i think orgy/lots of sex of other people is none of your business.you can show your perference to join or just say no then.simple as.you can live with your sex=great love anytime anywhere.

while personally i think the 'open-mindness' of people in ireland is still far behind many countries - the culture of sex atm in this country depresses you?then i suggest you to go travel around/read some books to broaden your mind abit.there is nothing depressing or shocking at all of the topic you mentioned.

Hagar

prinz wrote: »

Try to grasp the idea of the difference between sex, and the abuse of sexuality. Then you may understand my point. People have never been as exposed to the same level of sexualisation as today, particularly children.

No need to be condescending. I undestand your point perfectly, I was making a parallel point. The repression of our true sexual nature by society has led to its use as a money making tool by the same society because of it's inescapable appeal to our most basic nature.

liah

Just because people are having a lot of casual sex in this era doesn't mean that they won't also value a romantic relationship involving sex.

I've had both casual and committed sex and to be honest, I don't even see them as the same thing. Casual sex is just for a bit of fun, and it doesn't make me respect committed sex any less-- I still highly value sex while in a relationship and recognize its meaning and appreciate it.

People are allowed to have fun and do whatever makes them happy. It's not your place to judge them, especially when it's something like sex, which is a wholly personal thing that doesn't affect anyone but the people involved in the act itself.

The only thing I see as depressing is the fact that you let other people's means of enjoyment bother you instead of focusing on what makes you happy.

LegacyUser

I used the word "depressing" because the subject matter that I talked about in my OP is something that continually sticks in my head and bothers me!

I agree that people should be allowed to do what they like, so long as it isnt injurious to another person, but part of me hurts when I see the loss of innocence of some people that I have known by having sex all over the place. Another part of me hurts becuase I'm not as good looking as most people and therefore my oppurtunities at partaking in all the exciting teenage sex are limited.

If I was in my friends appartment at college for example, and after a while my friend leaves the room with a girl (girlfriend or otherwise) and goes into his bedroom with her, I feel terribly depressed. I'd love nothing more than to be in a loving relationship with a girl and have sex with her in private; in my opinion it is a big deal.

prinz

woogawoogawooga wrote: »

I'd love nothing more than to be in a loving relationship with a girl and have sex with her in private; in my opinion it is a big deal.

It will happen.Just relax and don't develop a complex over it.

prinz

Hagar wrote: »

No need to be condescending. I undestand your point perfectly, I was making a parallel point. The repression of our true sexual nature by society has led to its use as a money making tool by the same society because of it's inescapable appeal to our most basic nature.

It wasn't my intention to be condescending, obviously people are sexual beings, it's a fundamental need, on the other hand I don't think a bit less of the overtly sexual..everything... is in any way repressive. I don't need to see a girl taking her top off, in order to buy 7up, I don't think the kids toys such as the dolls now, with girls in minis and boobtubes, that I have seen being given to toddlers represent any sort of escape from repression. As it happens people have never been as unhappy with themselves physically as today. So the repression argument is counter productive. The OP is a case in point.

The abuse of sexuality is everywhere, selling everything, driving everything. Tbh I never felt repressed. There's a huge difference between healthily respecting sex and sexuality and abusing it. There is a middle ground somewhere.

irish_bob

interesting topic

thier was a documentary on channel 4 about seven or eight weeks ago , was shown over 4 or nights , was called the sex education show , baschically this fortysomething woman went around secondary schools in the uk talking to students about sex , the students were around junior cert age and a lot of them looked younger , only thing was , it wasnt just a biology lesson , they not only showed pictures of genitalia etc ,they had actual live naked models on stage , the presenters demeanor was one of boundless enthusiasm throughout and she made comments like , ok girls , thier is important stuff you should know about putting on condoms , the whole thing was entirely gratuitious and bordering on pornographic , never once was it mentioned that abstaining from sex was an option , the show just presumed that all were at it and that they needed to know how to do it well

i felt genuinly sorry for some of the baby faced students

liah

irish_bob wrote: »

interesting topic

thier was a documentary on channel 4 about seven or eight weeks ago , was shown over 4 or nights , was called the sex education show , baschically this fortysomething woman went around secondary schools in the uk talking to students about sex , the students were around junior cert age and a lot of them looked younger , only thing was , it wasnt just a biology lesson , they not only showed pictures of genitalia etc ,they had actual live naked models on stage , the presenters demeanor was one of boundless enthusiasm throughout and she made comments like , ok girls , thier is important stuff you should know about putting on condoms , the whole thing was entirely gratuitious and bordering on pornographic , never once was it mentioned that abstaining from sex was an option , the show just presumed that all were at it and that they needed to know how to do it well

i felt genuinly sorry for some of the baby faced students

Abstinence-only education has been proven to be completely fruitless, especially in the southern United States.

I think that would be a fantastic way to teach kids about sex. It takes all the unnecessary taboo and shame about completely natural acts and nudity and drills it into the kids' heads to be safe when (and I mean when, not if) they have sex.

I feel genuinely sorry for anyone who's taught that sex and nudity are things to be ashamed of. I'd rather they know the risks and how to perform acts such as applying methods of birth control than to have a bunch of teenage pregnancies and thus kids who won't be properly cared for... wouldn't you?

prinz

liah wrote: »

Abstinence-only education has been proven to be completely fruitless, especially in the southern United States.

Have any back up for that sweeping comment?

Much like anything unless unless kids have role models and live in a society which supports a particular point of view as legitimate then all the education in the world won't work completely. The poster made no reference to abstinence-ONLY education, what he said was it was never even mentioned as a possible course to take. A young person bombarded day-in day-out with sex, in advertising, music, films, tv etc. has to be extremely strong and supported by the people around them for abstinence to work. Unfortunately, as has been proven in this forum repeatedly on other threads there is very, very little understanding, respect or support for people who wish to abstain. In fact there is downright contempt, demeaning and belittling of anyone who chooses to abstain for whatever reason.

I don't think anyone is taught that sex is something to be ashamed of. Even people who are taught abstention are still given full sex education. So I don't know where you get that. In fact they are taught the opposite.

As for the teenage pregnancies you mention, well if our teenagers are taught abstention and those who follow through in that life, without being outcast and treated like a circus freak by their peers, and the media in general, they won't be the ones having these teenage pregnancies.

prinz

prinz wrote: »

Have any back up for that sweeping comment?

http://www.ppacca.org/site/pp.asp?c=kuJYJeO4F&b=139536
http://evolvinginkansas.blogspot.com/2009/01/ellen-goodman-on-abstinence-only-sex-ed.html
http://www.newwest.net/main/article/the_failure_of_abstinence_only_sex_education/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/13/AR2007041301003.html

Need any more?
I read a site about a year ago showing teen pregnancy rates in various states - iirc the higher rates were at the more abstinence-only education areas.

Even people who are taught abstention are still given full sex education. So I don't know where you get that. In fact they are taught the opposite.

As for the teenage pregnancies you mention, well if our teenagers are taught abstention and those who follow through in that life, without being outcast and treated like a circus freak by their peers, and the media in general, they won't be the ones having these teenage pregnancies.

It's well known that the USA abstinence only "education" programs involve lying and misleading about the effectiveness of condoms etc. Unfortunately they do indeed have the teenage pregnancies.

Unfortunately, as has been proven in this forum repeatedly on other threads there is very, very little understanding, respect or support for people who wish to abstain. In fact there is downright contempt, demeaning and belittling of anyone who chooses to abstain for whatever reason.

The only issues on the subject I've seen on this forum are:
-partners who have sex then suddenly decide they have to remain abstinent til marriage years into the relationship and the other person has to just suck it up
-partners who deliberately mislead and manipulate someone into "falling for them" before revealing they want to abstain
...and so on.
If someone is forthright from the start about wanting to abstain and doesn't appear to have any bad experiences causing this, then I think you'd find nobody cares.

liah

prinz wrote: »

Have any back up for that sweeping comment?

Much like anything unless unless kids have role models and live in a society which supports a particular point of view as legitimate then all the education in the world won't work completely. The poster made no reference to abstinence-ONLY education, what he said was it was never even mentioned as a possible course to take. A young person bombarded day-in day-out with sex, in advertising, music, films, tv etc. has to be extremely strong and supported by the people around them for abstinence to work. Unfortunately, as has been proven in this forum repeatedly on other threads there is very, very little understanding, respect or support for people who wish to abstain. In fact there is downright contempt, demeaning and belittling of anyone who chooses to abstain for whatever reason.

I don't think anyone is taught that sex is something to be ashamed of. Even people who are taught abstention are still given full sex education. So I don't know where you get that. In fact they are taught the opposite.

As for the teenage pregnancies you mention, well if our teenagers are taught abstention and those who follow through in that life, without being outcast and treated like a circus freak by their peers, and the media in general, they won't be the ones having these teenage pregnancies.

It's all over the internet, simply google it, these are the first couple of articles out of thousands:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2008581338_opin02goodman.html?referrer=digg
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14236771.htm
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/04/13/abstinence-only-programs-have-failed/
http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Abstinence_programs

One of those articles is from Reuters, which is an incredibly reputable source. The others use various other sources, but most of them are also highly credible.

Teenagers are going to have sex regardless of what the media, their peers, parents, teachers, etc. tell them. It is better for them to learn exactly what they're getting into prior to getting into it so they can make the decision themselves in regards to abstaining.

They're not two-year-olds. They are capable of making that decision. They may regret it later in life, they may not, it's their problem, but abstinence shouldn't be forced down anyone's throat in favour of learning about a perfectly natural function that everyone is going to take part in at one point or another.

I know people from my generation, my school, and my very class who chose to abstain. I also know people from my generation, my school, and my very class who chose to have sex at early ages. They all had similar upbringings. It was personal choice. We were given a very good education in terms of sex and I'm quite proud to say that in the entire time I was in high school (remember, high school in North America is later ages than over here) I knew of only one teenage pregnancy, and that was due to a rape. We were educated properly, freely made our own decisions, and were just fine.

I think the problem comes in when teens are criticised and ostracised for having sex early on, they're made to think it's a shameful, horrible, demeaning act and that they shouldn't do it-- which, often, just leads to a complete reverse psychology scenario, in which case they go out and have more sex in more dangerous situations because they're never given proper education on the subject and are only told "don't have sex."

This happens a lot in the southern States especially because they don't learn WHY they shouldn't have sex (pregnancy, STDs, etc), they don't learn how to take care of themselves properly and be safe about it, they're just simply told "don't do it, it's bad." There's a lot of protest by the religious to remove sexual education from the classroom entirely, and that's what I have major issue with. It leads to more teen pregnancy and spread of STDs simply because they don't know any better.

I have a feeling that the documentary irish-bob watched didn't bring up abstinance simply because there's not really a lot to be taught about it, it's fairly simple... just don't have sex, you pick your reasons why not. They were being responsible and realizing that kids are going to do what they want to do at that age and it's naïve to think otherwise. Kids already know that they have the option to or not to have sex, why on earth would a documentary on being safe about sex bring it up?

Wagon

Yes. I get really pissed off when people use each other. Now two people in the same boat just wanting a shag is grand but when one is being manipulated and lied to in order for the other to get their hole, that pisses me off. It's happened to me more than once too. I'm all for sexual liberation, but i hate when i get used by it.

prinz

liah wrote: »

Teenagers are going to have sex regardless of what the media, their peers, parents, teachers, etc. tell them.

Kids already know that they have the option to or not to have sex, why on earth would a documentary on being safe about sex bring it up?

Thanks, appreciate the links. A lot to read.:D

Very few teenagers do things regardless of what the media, parents, teachers etc. tell them. Kids are bombarded with the message that sex is great (which it is, dont get me wrong) but also that sex is for the here and now, enjoy the moment because there are no consequences etc. Sex is literally everywhere. So it's little wonder that abstention only doesn't work. However it should be advised, and not ignored. By not mentioning it as an option it is reinforcing the belief that people who abstain are weird.

From what I gather the documentary was about sex education, not safe sex, so should have included all the options. Of course they have the option to have or not have sex the problem is if someone chooses to abstain there is absolutely no support or recognition of that choice, in this country anyway.

There was a thread recently from a girl about her bf wanting to abstain, and the replies she got included; he's gay, he was sexually abused, he's not normal, he's repressed, he's ashamed and thinks sex is dirty, he's stuck in the middle ages, threaten to dump him until he agrees to sex, it isn't a real relationship without sex etc etc etc.

Only two posters, myself being one, made the point that if that's his choice, he's welcome to it. Whether he sticks to his guns is another thing. There's far too much emphasis placed on it these days, to an equally unhealthy degree as not talking about it at all.

Anyway going off-topic, and will probably incur the wrath of the bansticks soon.


EDIT: Some of the sources linked also appear contradictory about the usage of contraception between test subjects, and all apply to abstinence-only programmes which is not what anyone here suggested

iguana

prinz wrote: »

Try to grasp the idea of the difference between sex, and the abuse of sexuality. Then you may understand my point. People have never been as exposed to the same level of sexualisation as today, particularly children.

That's because we've only all had televisions in our homes for 50 years, cable/digital tv bringing multiple 24 hour channels into our homes for 25 years tops, the internet en masse in our homes for 15 years and broadband bring video internet into our homes for 5. So you're right children have not been exposed to this level of sexualisation ever before. But equally they have not been exposed to the same kind of violence, news, cartoons, adverts, soaps, games, etc.

While we weren't getting to see so much of other people's lives as much in the past "abuse" of sexualisation has existed throughout history. Do a little research on Anne Boleyn, Madame de Pompadour, Cora Pearl, Gerda Munsinger, Mata Hari, Nell Gwyn. Or Robert Dudley, Lord Byron or Grigory Orlov. People have used their, or others, sexuality to achieve their aims for millenia, it's just that through mass media more people can be reached and influenced than ever before.

Jack B. Badd

prinz wrote: »

Even people who are taught abstention are still given full sex education.

Maybe I'm a bit behind the times but 10 years ago when I was in secondary school, the closest I got to full sex education was one 40-minute class in Science where it was presented in an almost purely biological manner. Our teacher even informed us that he couldn't tell us anything about contraception available to us apart from the rhythm method as we attended a convent school. I presume/hope that things have changed since then!

Zaph

OK, this appears to have gone a long way away from the OP's post so I'm going to close this now as it's no longer in PI territory. May I suggest that if you wish to continue the discussion Humanities might be a good place to take it.