min oil level in the tank?

Kate253

whats the minimum amount of oil u should have at all times in the tank? was hoping to get away without another delivery at this stage in the year! i'm sure it's not a good idea to let it go empty. in the absence of a proper measurement, roughly how many inches deep? it's a standard 1000L tank.

JamesM

You must not let the oil level go below the top of the outlet pipe or the burner will airlock. The outlet is quite high on modern plastic tanks, so you need to keep the level at least 6" above the bottom of the tank. Also, the lower you let it go, the more chance of sludge being stirred up when the tank is being filled. Oil is quite cheap at the moment. The price will most likely go up before the Winter season - get it while it is cheap. Also you pay less per litre the more you order. 1000L is cheaper than 2 fills of 500L. Most plastic tanks are about 1200L, although some hold less.
Jim.

PJaysus

JamesM wrote: »

You must not let the oil level go below the top of the outlet pipe or the burner will airlock. /quote]

well Jim, as luck would have it thats just what I did.:mad:
I am raging with myself for letting it happen, as I was checking the levels regularly and had re-ordering on my to-do list. Now I have a tank full of oil but the burner is airlocked.

I had the burner serviced last month, and although the guy who did it was very good, I'd like to avoid the extra expense of getting him to come out again, unless I really have to. So how difficult is it to "bleed" the burner?

Its a Grant 50 - 70 burner, which is located in the utility room of the house.
I can see a tap-type valve on top of the white pipe coming from the tank into the boiller. Would I be right to assume I have to do something here?

I'm not the best when it comes to DIY and I don't want to mess up the good work the plumber did, but I can't be the first that this has happened to, so surely it can be done?
I would say the tank is about 6 years old, and from dipping it there didn't seem to be too much sludge. Anyway since it was serviced recently I figure all the filters should be working well.

@ Jim, I looked around for a while now on threads and you know your stuff about these things, maybe you can advise me on how to bleed the burner.
If its too complicated / risky I'll call in the pros.

Any help appreciated.

By the way, Kate , I got 974 litres for 38.6 cents a litres , comparted with 46.5 cents in August last year. So I recon its a good deal to buy now.

JamesM

PJaysus, Grant is the make of the boiler - you probably have a Riello 40 G3 or RDB1 burner. If you have a RDB, you will see the flexible oil line connected to the bottom of the oil pump on the left hand side of the burner as you look at it. You can see an allen screw on the upper side of this oil pump. If you loosen this, air will come out and then oil. When the air stops, close the screw and push the reset button. If it does not start, bleed again. If you have a G3, remove the cover and you will see the same screw. If it is older than about 10 years this screw may not exist and there is another means of bleeding the burner. On either burner, do not turn an adjuster screw which turns easily, and just needs a flat screwdriver.
Good luck,
Jim.

JamesM

PJaysus, read through this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055255246
Jim.

PJaysus

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the reply, the answer was very detailed and the other thread with the picture was very usefull.

I will have a look at it tonight, and see if I can find the allen key screw you were talking about. I will ask my son to hide all my other tools, in case I get tempted to do twist or turn something else.

You mentioned that " you probably have a Riello 40 G3 or RDB1 burner "

Where do I see the make & model of the burner? Even in the picture from the other thread I could not see it?

thanks again, your expertise is much appreciated.
PJ

JamesM

Riello will be written on the cover and a small label. Bentone is the other most likely make that you might have. Its adjustment screw is probably an allen screw, so don't turn anything that turns easily. If there are bolt heads, not allen screws, find the highest, where the air will gather, and try to loosen it.
Jim. On that other thread, if you have a Riello, the green arrow in the 2nd photo shows the allen screw.
Jim.

PJaysus

I will have to check the make again. If i am unsure I might take a picture and post it just to be sure. It definitly is a fairly new looking burner.

From memomory I do remember and kind of high spout on the left hand side of the boiler. It went straight up from the burner, was about 3 inches long and 1/2 inch wide. can't remember what type of screw was on the top, but it would strike me as somewhere , that air might be allowed to escape.

Does that ring any bells for you? I might put up a picture when I get home.

Cheers,
PJ

JamesM

Sounds like a RDB. If there is an allen screw in the centre of that, you can also loosen it and air will bubble out.
Jim.

PJaysus

hi Jim.
I looked at it now that I got home, and it is an RDB1 50 / 70 SH.

There is a allen key screw in the center of that spout I mentioned. I checked quickly and its not easy to turn, so I recon thats the right one. I'll give it a chance and see what happens.

PJ

PJaysus

Jim,
Do I need to press the reset button after this. It says on the cover "reset only twice". So don't want to press reset until absolutely necessary.

Cheers,
PJ

Avns1s

Yea You will need to push the reset button. The "push only twice" refers to without having cleared the fault.

(Sorry Jim for coming in on your show. )

PJaysus

ok lads, I turned the allen key screw that was in the spout. Its was a gold spout, and black allen key screw. I turned it about a 3/4 turn until a small bit of oil came out. No bubbles, just a few drips of oil.

I also twisted the allen key hole at the left side of the burner, this (now) seems to have been the correct one. I didn't hear any hissing but I turned it about half a turn, didn't want to go to far, as I could not see this allen screw, because it was to the left and very hard to get to / see.
I am now figuring that this is the one I started with.

I pressed the reset after this, and the burner fired and pipes underneath the radiator started to get hot, this only lasted about 5 minutes before the burner switched itself off.

Unfortunately I don't have a camera so can't take a picture. But I have a gut feeling that I turned the wrong screw first. The picure from a previous thread shows a similar burner, not exactly the same but quite close.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/51224/53450.jpg

I see now James description that the correct one to beed was the one I could not see, but I screwed the one that was facing me.

Any ideas on what went wrong & why the burner cuts out after five mins. Is it because the air-lock has not been fixed, or has it to do with oil pressure?

How many times can I press the reset button?
Is there a risk I've damaged the burner / boiler?

Cheers,
PJ

PJaysus

Me again, I did some searching and found the right manual (better late than never ; ) for my burner.

http://www.rielloburners.co.uk/lumo/upload_documents/riello_rdb12technicalmanual29027124.pdf

Looking at the diagram on page 2 I can see that it was the pressure guage port (number 7) that I loosened until a small bit of air came out. I did not touch the pressure pump adjustment screw (number 6).

So here is what I did.

1. Switch everthing off
2. Turned the pressure guage port allen key screw about half a turn until a tiny bit of oil came out
3. Turned the allen key screw on the side of about a half turn. N>B I did not hear any air escape, and definitely no oil came out.
4. pressed reset
5. switched on boiler.

My last questions are.
1. How does turning the pressure gauge port affect the burner?
2. should the boiler be switched on while I bleed it (step 3)?
3. Should the boiler be switched on before I hit the reset button?

Any help on the above would help. The missus is starting to nag about why there is still no heat ; )

Cheers,
PJ

JamesM

Have you tried to go through the cycle again ? Did the red button hop out again ?, if so, maybe there is just more air in the pump. Try bleeding the side allen screw again. Nothing you described could have damaged the burner. Avns1s is correct, You can push the button as much as necessary, if you are careful to let any fumes clear from the boiler - like, leave it a few minutes between pushes

If the red light is not on, maybe the boiler heated up in the 5 minutes and the second problem is that there is no circulation - the water pump can stick if it is off for a few days.
Jim.

Hurry up and get it going - I am going away for a week tomorrow !!!

PJaysus

Hi Jim,

fair play to you for answering so late.
So far I did the cycle only once, and to be honest very little oil came out the first time. At least I know now that I am on the right track.

So far I have been opening the bleed valve while the system is switched off, and closing it before I switch it on.

Is this incorrect? Should I be doing opening it while it is switched on, and pressing reset while valve is still open?

I checked the manual, but does not say to turn system on first, so I didn;t

I will have another go at it tomorrow afternoon, and if it still don't work after two more cylces I'll give my plumber a call.

Don't like giving up after all the effort (and help from yourself and others) but I've reached the limits of my patience with it.

Thanks again, if I don't hear from you tomorrow, I wish you a good holiday.
PJ

JamesM

Firstly you should loosen the allen screw on the side of the pump, with the burner off - get out whatever air you can - then tighten it up. Then when you turn on the burner, you could loosen the screw on the pressure gauge port a little bit, but remember the oil behind that one will be under pressure and could squirt out, but it will help to get the air out.

There could be one other answer. 5 minutes is a long time for the burner to run, and then cut out again from an air blockage. Usually it will keep going if it lasts that long. Also you said that there was almost no air coming out. Are you sure that you ran out of oil
Riello burners from about 2 years ago had a lot of trouble with oil pumps - they started sticking - it's just something else that might be happening. You may have to call that service guy
Jim.

PJaysus

Hi James,

thanks for the answer

"Firstly you should loosen the allen screw on the side of the pump, with the burner off - get out whatever air you can - then tighten it up. Then when you turn on the burner, you could loosen the screw on the pressure gauge port a little bit, but remember the oil behind that one will be under pressure and could squirt out, but it will help to get the air out"

I don't think I got enough air out the first time, so I'll try the cycles again.
Was worried about hitting reset to often, but at least I know now that as long as I wait the 30 seconds or more, this will be ok.

Definitely had run out of oil, knew it was low and just left it too late. Lesson learned for next time.

Appreciate the help, think I figured it out in the end. Will have another bash this eveing

PJaysus

James - thanks for your help - got the burner working, heres what happened.

Followed the instructions you laid out (spot on) , opened the hexagon pencil like pressure port with the allen key, but this time no oil came out.

My neighbour (who actually has done this before) came over and he did the same. Once he saw no oil was coming out, he got a suction pump and tried to use it suck out the oil. After a few gos still no oil came out the port.

He said there was no oil coming out, and asked me if I switched the tap outside on the tank off. I said I never touched it, but wasn't hear when the oil man delivered, maybe he did something. We both went out to look at it, and he switched the tap on , forgot to put the allen key back in the port, when we came back sure enough the oil was flowing out.

It took me a while to figure out what happened, but I rememberd that a the oil ran out during bank holiday weekend, and my 4 year old son was playing in the back garden.

It turns out that the little fecker turned the tap off at the tank, and I hadn't ran out of oil at oil. I laughed my ass off when I discovered it.
Not even a teenager yet, and causing me headache.

Anyway, thanks for all your help, if it happens again at least I'll know what to do.

Cheers,
PJ

JamesM

That's great
Leaving at 5 am
Now I can enjoy my Holiday :D:D
Jim.