Insurance Loopholes

Drummerboy08

Guys, I was having an argument about this down the local over the weekend. Now, i think i know the answer, but lets run it by here.

Lets say, John has an accident, his own fault, while driving on a policy as a named driver (i.e. the policy is in someone elses name).

Now, When this policy is up, John decides to get insured in his own name in order to start his own NCB.

Here's where the ambiguity sets in. Some of us felt that "John" could legally claim there has been no accidents in his name since he's started driving. Me, along with a few others felt that he should disclose the accident he was involved in the previous year.

I think im right, but can someone confirm it?

Mods, feel free to move this to a more appropriate forum if it shouldnt be in motors.

Anan1

AFAIK, both John and the policy holder get hammered.

PCPhoto

best of my knowledge he has to disclose any accidents that he has been involved in..... named driver or crash victim.

He's supposed to tell them - but if he doesn't they could find out anyway and cancel his insurance on the basis that he didn't disclose the details....could be a year or two or even three years later - which would completely leave him up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

in extreme worst case they could cancel any insurance he has and then report to gardai for fraud (knowingly creating a false document - ie. his insurance application).

in extreme best case: original owner of car gets premium hiked, he gets a fresh insurance.

if the guy is happy with knowingly increasing the owners insurance premium (insurance company are likely to hugely increase the next quote).... then thats his business - but how will the owner feel ?

Do you think its fair that the owner gets punished - I think the driver would have to consider if its fair to wreck the car owners NCB, hike their premium and damage the car.

-Chris-

My thoughts would be that the accident John caused would be of material value (or whatever they call it) to the new insurance company and so he should disclose it and let them decide whether to load his policy or not.

He can't rightly say that there have been no claims against him.

PCPhoto

just a point : isnt it very selvish of "John" .... he crashes a car he's a named driver on and thinks..... well... I've damaged owners car, their NCB is gone and their premiums will be through the roof.

so erm..... I dont wanna face the music - I think I'll run away (and get my own insurance)

Eoin

Does the principle of Utmost Good Faith not cover any ambiguous rules?

Bazzy

But if you make a claim the insurance company take your drivers licence number i'm sure the insurance companies have a database of all claims and this could be easily checked?

Jip

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Here's where the ambiguity sets in. Some of us felt that "John" could legally claim there has been no accidents in his name since he's started driving. Me, along with a few others felt that he should disclose the accident he was involved in the previous year.

I think im right, but can someone confirm it?

Mods, feel free to move this to a more appropriate forum if it shouldnt be in motors.

Don't they ask you if you've ever hand any accidents or claims rather than specifying if it was on a policy in your name (all the companies I deal with anyway) so that's fairly cut and dry I imagine..

Drummerboy08

Thats what i thought. Being realistic about it, it'd be fairly easy to get caught doing it too.

Cheers lads!

msg11

But what if it was actully non intentional ? That you said no ?

Eoin

You have a duty of disclosure - it's really as simple as that. That covers any wiggle room you might think you have in the small print.

oldyouth

You will be asked a question on the proposal form, 'Have you been involved in any accidents in the last X years'. If you do not disclose this and it is subsequently discovered, they can cancel your policy for mis-representation. Then you are compounding the issue for when you want to get another policy when it comes to another question 'has any insurer refused to offer cover or cancelled cover on you'

Bottom line is that you should always tell your insurer the true circumstances. They have all the cute hoorisms covered, having heard them all and it is you who will lose out. Trust me on this

Biro

There was a guy on Gerry Ryan a few years ago who got sent to jail for exactly this. Failed to disclose an accident, 5 years later had another one, the insurance company investigated, found all the details and he got brought to court and sent to jail for driving for 5 years with no insurance, as his insurance was null and void for that time.
In any case, they ask if you have been involved in any accident in the last 5 years on the form. Not "have you claimed on your own policy in your own name in the past"!
It's not a loop hole at all. The question "Have you been involved in an accident" is not open to interpretation, you either have or have not.

Anan1

As Jip said, they ask whether the proposer or any named drivers has had any accidents, claims or convictions within the last five years.

ronanc15

oldyouth wrote: »

You will be asked a question on the proposal form, 'Have you been involved in any accidents in the last X years'. If you do not disclose this and it is subsequently discovered, they can cancel your policy for mis-representation. Then you are compounding the issue for when you want to get another policy when it comes to another question 'has any insurer refused to offer cover or cancelled cover on you'

Bottom line is that you should always tell your insurer the true circumstances. They have all the cute hoorisms covered, having heard them all and it is you who will lose out. Trust me on this

100% bang on the money.

Non-disclosure of a material fact is just about the worst thing you could do on a proposal form. Suppose by some method you did slip through the net, if you went on and had an accident and they discovered you lied about having no involvement previously in an accident, then not only will your fresh accident not be covered, the policy will be void and you will be left to cover repairs, personal injuries, legal costs etc etc

mickdw

Even if you tell all the lies you possibly could think of, the insurance company are bound by law to cover all third party claims resulting from your actions. They will obviously not cover your side of the claim. They can then and most likely will chase you through th courts to recover the costs of the third party claim they had to settle for you.

ronanc15

mickdw wrote: »

Even if you tell all the lies you possibly could think of, the insurance company are bound by law to cover all third party claims resulting from your actions. They will obviously not cover your side of the claim. They can then and most likely will chase you through th courts to recover the costs of the third party claim they had to settle for you.

sorry i should have included this in my post. It is also important to note they will have no issues in getting a conviction against you and recover their total outlay