Any advice for someone who got fined for having green diesel in their car?

flamegrill

Someone I know got dipped by the Gardai on April 1st and has been accused of having green diesel in their car. The main issue is the guy is a professional driver who has accounted for all his milage and refueling. Should he challenge it? The points to note are:

1) he's a professional driver and has got fairly accurate/good records of his mileage and refueling.
2) the circumstances behind the dipping are in question. Apparently results can't be accurate if the tank is very low on fuel. He was in the red for a day at least before he was dipped.

Questions:

Does point 1 (record keeping) give him any advantages?
Does anyone know if the testing on an empty tank is admissible in court?

He's going to seek legal advice obviously but he asked me if I knew anyone out there who might have been through this. What better place to pose the question than boards.ie ?

Thanks,

Paul

Terry

Moved from AH.

flamegrill

For reference: The guy in question did not and has never used green diesel. He bought the car recently second hand and he believes the previous owner was the one at fault.

L1011

If he's got the details of the proof of sale (which I expect he would, if not the reg documents obviously say when you got the car) and receipts or other details of his refueling since I would expect he would get off in court. The dye markers can stay in the tank as residue for a very long time.

homer90

Are the test samples kept by customs / Gardai for prosecutions ?

flamegrill

@Homer90 I'd imagine that they'd have to be incase it's challenged.

Tipsy Mac

You sure it wasn't Customs and Excise who dipped it, Gardai don't normally get involved in this. How long ago did he purchase the car?

Sully

flamegrill? :O is that... you?!

Isnt this still legal advise, like why it was originally closed? :S

flamegrill

Not looking for legal advice really, looking to see if anyone has similar experience of buying a second hand car and this happening to them.

Paul

flamegrill

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

You sure it wasn't Customs and Excise who dipped it, Gardai don't normally get involved in this. How long ago did he purchase the car?

Yeah I think that's correct alright.

He got it 4 or 5 months ago, how long can the traces stay in the car? It's possible the guys he buys the diesel from could be mixing in green diesel. That's a whole other kettle of fish.

flamegrill

Sully wrote: »

flamegrill? :O is that... you?!

Eh.. yes I'm quite active ..

Tipsy Mac

I think the max fine is €1500, not sure how lenient they would be for a first offence especially if there is doubt as to him being aware of it. If he has reciepts for all fuels used from the last couple of months I would imagine he would get the benefit of the doubt and there would then be checks done on the seller.

Sully

flamegrill wrote: »

Eh.. yes I'm quite active ..

Where? At work? :P

The Legal Discussion/Emergency Service forum would probably have people with more know-how on this. How did your friend get attracted to the Guards attention? Something I rarely see done

run_Forrest_run

Sully wrote: »

How did your friend get attracted to the Guards attention? Something I rarely see done

this is off topic, doesn't matter how he came to the attention of the gardai does it? (unless there was a body in the boot or something:eek: )

flamegrill

Sully wrote: »

Where? At work? :P

The Legal Discussion/Emergency Service forum would probably have people with more know-how on this. How did your friend get attracted to the Guards attention? Something I rarely see done

Random check point, they didn't turn up at his gaff or anything. They were stopping all Diesel cars/trucks/vans etc one day and it was on his way home. He thought it was an April fools joke and was very shocked when he found out it wasn't.

FredH3as

Can't understand why someone who is being environmentally friendly by using green fuel is getting hassled by the gardi

shawnee

In cases for a private car using green diesel, the case does not generally go to court. The revenue have a fixed penalty which billed to the user, usually around 500 euro. I would say if the guy is a professional and has all receipts for his diesel and produces them to revenue, then they ''may'' show leniency. But it is at their discression. I would doubt that the residue would remain in a car for over 5 months if the vehicle was being refuelled with the correct diesel and being driven daily.

leeroybrown

If he's had the car for four or five months and he's completely above board about not using green diesel then he should consider the possibility that one of the filling stations that he's been using has been selling washed diesel.

WIZE

There is a reason it is called green diesel ( Its green ) and used for Farm machines. If the Garda managed to take a sample of the Diesel by using a suction device and it came out as pure green desiel then you friend has put it there . If there is just a trace of it mixed with normal desiel then he has a case

flamegrill

BVB wrote: »

There is a reason it is called green diesel ( Its green ) and used for Farm machines. If the Garda managed to take a sample of the Diesel by using a suction device and it came out as pure green desiel then you friend has put it there . If there is just a trace of it mixed with normal desiel then he has a case

It's hard to know really. They don't tell you anything apart from there was green diesel in his tank. I believe they gave him the impression that it was just trace elements and not full on green diesel though.

Sully

flamegrill wrote: »

Random check point, they didn't turn up at his gaff or anything. They were stopping all Diesel cars/trucks/vans etc one day and it was on his way home. He thought it was an April fools joke and was very shocked when he found out it wasn't.

Is the car second hand?

ianobrien

What's the sulphur level in the diesel?

"Ordinary forecourt diesel" has to have less than 50ppm sulphur in it, and is subjected to an expensive operation while refining to get the sulphur that low.

"Green Diesel" doesn't have to have less than 50ppm sulphur, and typically has 350 to 500ppm sulphur as it's not cleaned up.

So, if a sample of diesel has more than 50ppm diesel, it's green, or has had green in the tank before (not diluted enough).

The sulphur level can be tested easy enough

cruiser178

i think your friend should just grin and bare it even if he is innocent(which i doubt 5 months is a long time for traces of green to be found)if he says he didnt put it in himself he must point the finger and have proof,if he has no proof he could be in all sorts of trouble.take the fine and move on.

flamegrill

Sully wrote: »

Is the car second hand?

Aye. Bought second hand from what I'd call a small town "dealer". More like wheeler and dealer IMO. But that's just my opinion. Personally I always use main dealers (despite the price difference).

Where would he get the Sulphur level checked?