Second Car Insurance?

Charles Bronson

Here is the deal. I have a fully comp policy on a 2008 car with a value of 17000. This policy cost me 570 Euro.

I have a second car that was off the road for several months. I recently got this car fixed and now want to get it serviced. It is also booked for an NCT in June. I want to clock up a couple of hundred miles on this car to get rid of the cobwebs.

I rang my insurance broker and got a quote of 550 Euro for the second car. This was for third party only, with a value of 1500 on the car, which I thought was irrelevant being third party only .

I will more than likely pass this car on to a relative when I have it fully sorted out and properly checked and NCT`ed so will not be selling it on. Hence I don`t want to waste money on a twelve month 10000 mile policy when I only need a few weekends third party cover.

I can transfer my existing policy over when I wish to drive this other car, but what is involved in this. I assume I have to notify the insurance company every time this is done and may involve an administration fee. Quinn Direct once charged me 60 euro "Administration Fee" for four hours transfer of my policy on a loan car from a garage while my car was being serviced. I needed the car so had to pay.

The main question I have is, If I transfer the car over to a relative now, and the car is not insured by anyone, It is fully taxed by the way, can I legally drive it under the "Drive any other car with the owners permission"," That I don`t own, rent or lease, etc," clause, in my fully comp policy. How do the guards react to this, any guards, brokers, solicitors or peeps with similar experiences etc, please advise.

Thanks.

rowanh

If you transfer the car to your relative it will have to have a n insurance policy on it for you to be able to drive it with your policy.. If it does and the guards stop you then you would most likley have to bring both policies into a station.. Id say the best thing to do is just do a temp swap, im insured with quinn and you dont have to pay to do this, not sure what the story was with you getting charged before but i have swapped my policy all over the place onto different cars and its never been an issue..

Charles Bronson

Thanks for the reply. This is a joke the way we allow ourselves to be ripped off. I was under the impression I was insured to drive my main car plus another car with the permission of the owner as long as I don't own it. If I had an accident in some other car I was driving, my policy would cover it third party. The insurance policy on that car would not cover me or would it.

Am I insured or is my car insured. If some other person drove my car and crashed it, my policy would not pay out anything or would it. The small print on the policy does not go into detail and does not mention a double insurance.

All I need is the bare legal minimum of an insurance policy on the second car. I cannot get an extension to my existing policy to cover this car. I have to take out a separate policy and cannot use my no claims bonus as it applies to my main car and not to me. Even though I gained this bonus in what is now the second car.

As I got this policy through a broker and saved a couple of hundred euro off what Quinn were looking for, but the trade off is they operate only office hours, 9 to 5. When I made the initial inquiry on a Friday at approx' 16:30 I was told they were unlikely to get hold of the insurance company at that time of day and would get back to me. It was the following Wednesday when I heard back. So it is a slow process. Do I have to inform the broker who informs the insurance company who gets back to the broker who gets in touch with me every time I find an hour to take the second car for a spin/road test. And then do it again to get back to the main car.

Are there any insurance companies who offer a reduced mileage/weekend/short term type policy.

I don't need a full policy. The car will not be used for going to work. It will not be used for domestic or pleasure purposes. It is purely a policy to cover a third party only.

The thing that really gets me is I cannot drive both cars at the same time. If I have an accident in the second car the liability to the insurance company would be less then if it was in the main car. Yet they still want to charge almost the same price for a fully comp 17000 euro policy as zero value third party policy. They wont extend the current policy and don't mirror the No Claims Bonus.

And just to be clear, Is it definitely the law that you need to have the car insured by someone else before my insurance policy will cover me to drive it.
Has anybody any experience in a similar situation.

Charles Bronson

rowanh wrote: »

Id say the best thing to do is just do a temp swap, im insured with quinn and you dont have to pay to do this, not sure what the story was with you getting charged before but i have swapped my policy all over the place onto different cars and its never been an issue..

I booked my car into the garage and got a loan car. The guy behind the counter checked my insurance disc and phoned up Quinn to arrange the transfer. He then put me on the phone. The girl asked me to confirm my details and then said it would cost 60 euro to transfer the policy. I asked to speak to a supervisor and was told they were busy and did I want to transfer the policy. I needed the car, so had to agree. When I got home, I rang up Quinn again and asked for a supervisor. This time I was put through. I explained what had happened and was told it was an "administration charge". This is the reason I shopped around and went with the broker. I was not happy with the "take it or leave it attitude" I felt I got from Quinn.

rowanh

I really have looked into this.. Its not that its the law its on your policy, well maybe your is different to most but that is the way they generally all are, its to stop you say insuring a 1L car and then driving a 3L twin turbo car on the policy. Irish insurance is a total joke though, its time the motorist stood up and said wtf is going on.. We payout something like 4 billion in tax as a motorist and then we are bent over are cars and raped.. Thats how i see it anyway..

seanybiker

AFAIK
If your over 25 have a full license and fully comp you can drive any other car as long as its taxed and is not yours. thats the way my bike insurance works. Presume its the same.
If your giving it to a relative just sign over the ownership. Make sure its taxed. And away ya go. Sorry didnt read all the thread so someone probably already told ya that but. thats it

oh and if you do drive it on your fully comp but not yours then you only have TPO.




sorry actually. I had Fully comp up until last month and my bike was robbed. I have TPFT now and only received insurance details on firday. Turns out Im allowed drive other bikes as long as they not mine.
Make sure to read your insurance details with a fine tooth comb.

timmywex

Check your insurance cert, secction 5 i think.

It will detail what cars your allowed to drive, and the conditions attached, you may still be able to drive it even if its in your own name, it all depends on what your insurance policy says!

oldyouth

I'll try and answer without getting in to the technicalities. Firstly, if you are thinking of handing over the car to a relaitve, make sure the log book is transferred to their name. You cannot drive a 2nd car in your name under the driving of other cars section

The reason the vehicle needs it's own insurance when you are driving under your 'driving of other cars' extension, is because the car could be the cause of the loss and not your driving of it. If, for arguments sake, the brakes failed, there is no negligence on the driver if an accident ensues, it is down to a defect in the car. When the driver is also the owner of the vehicle, his insurer covers both aspects. When another person owns the car, their insurance covers losses from a defect in the car and your policy covers how you drive it.

As for substitutions, yes, you will need to notify your insurers each and every time and don't forget, if you say you want to go, for instance, from 9am to 8pm on any given day, then cover will automatically revert back whether you are in a position to park it up or not.

Insurers generally charge administration charges for substitions only when there is a high frequency. It is to stop people you want to run a few cars on the one policy (insuring a low cc one and substituting a higher one on, as a previous poster said) and also to stop a part-time motor trader (wrongly) thinking this is how he can do business

slavetothegrind

The reason the vehicle needs it's own insurance when you are driving under your 'driving of other cars' extension, is because the car could be the cause of the loss and not your driving of it. If, for arguments sake, the brakes failed, there is no negligence on the driver if an accident ensues, it is down to a defect in the car. When the driver is also the owner of the vehicle, his insurer covers both aspects. When another person owns the car, their insurance covers losses from a defect in the car and your policy covers how you drive it.

Understood, so where is the bulk of the risk?

Surely in the driver as personal injury claims are the major costs in collisions?

To use me as an example, i have a policy on a commercial 4x4, this does not allow me to drive anything else at all, others can drive mine ( with conditions).

I have asked for a policy extension to drive other peoples cars as this would be very convenient for me from time to time in work and lesiure but was told no as i must have a car to take a policy out on.

i Ask you, old youth, because you appear to be in the industry and are therefore all knowing and demonic:D why there is not an additional charge based on a given vehicle value, to allow me to drive other cars on my policy?

This could clearly define conditions relative to price, relating to value and non-customised or modified etc.

oldyouth

Unfortunately, joeclif, I do indeed work in the industry. 30 years this summer in fact.

People should be very careful of the wording on their certificate. Up to recently it was a driving of other cars extension and anyone who thought they were covered under their private car policy to drive your commercial vehicle were incorrect to do so. In recent years, some insurers have granted driving of other vehicles on their policies, but very few.

The risk is in the passenger cover. A private car policy will cover your liability to all passengers in your vehicle, whereas a commercial vehicle policy will cover your liability to passengers provided with a fixed seat. It's complicated but a private car insurer could be caught for passengers loose in the back of a van.

As for vehicle values, Insurer generally don't give a toss about vehicle values, either yours, a car you borrow, or the one you hit. Their concern is the cost of injuries you can cause. That is why there is little difference between Third Party Fire & Theft and full Comp. That's not where they get stung.

Charles Bronson

First, thanks to everyone who posted. The situation seems a little clearer now.

1. The second car needs insurance to cover possible accidents caused by mechanical faults and the driver needs insurance to cover driver errors.
2. All the questions about where you live and the value of the car etc, are just an excuse to bump up the price and don't really have any major bearing on the policy offered. I always believed they spent millions on actuaries who can predict the likelihood of an accident and so bumped up the price only on pure mathematical calculations. Silly me. :bendingover: Someone should add a smilie to fit that desciption


The exact wording from section 5 of my policy states...

"The Vehicle bearing the Index Mark or Registration Number:- 08DXXXXX
The Insured who may also drive any other motor car (excluding motor cycles,trikes, quads, commercial vehicles including car derived vans, work vehicles, mini buses, coaches etc.) that does not belong to, nor hired to, nor leased to the Insured or the Insured's Employer."

Section 6 goes on to state that a mechanic can drive my car under my policy? If the mechanic damaged the car, I would like to think he or the garage would be covered without my policy coming under scrutiny.

When I read section 5 I took it to mean... I can drive my Insured car and also any other similar car, that I do not own or rent. Now I see that this car must also be insured for mechanical failure.

The problem seems to be, the insurance companies will not insure the car for this. They want me to take a full policy. Which would mean I have two policies to cover me driving the car and one to cover the car. I know they won't pay me double in the event of an accident.

Section 5 quoted above came from the certificate of insurance and does not go into any more detail. The motor policy booklet that also came with the certificate defines a lot of the words and their meanings and how they apply to the documents, what is covered and the circumstances that are not covered "Invading army " but does not expand on section five.

I know in an argument with a Guard, Judge, Insurance company solicitor I would loose, but the way the document is worded is misleading.

Does anybody know of any insurance companies that would insure the car for mechanical failure and not driver failure which I believe is covered. Does anybody know of an insurance company that offers short term insurance, say for a month. Even at a slightly higher rate than I was quoted, One month for less than a ton would be acceptable.

slavetothegrind

Understood. But if that is the case then my liability whilst driving other cars has gone from one passenger ( in my jeep) to four in any given car. So why not give me a policy to cover this potential?
Why do i still have to own a car to get cover?

I am not picking on you, more at you!:)

Thanks for your reply

PS sorry charles if i appear to be hijacking your thread!

Charles Bronson

joeclif wrote: »

PS sorry charles if i appear to be hijacking your thread!

All peas in the same pod, hijack at will.:D

If its a nice summer and I can get the time off work and there is nothing good on the goggle box and I cant get a bird, I promise I will start a revolution.

REH

Hi Guys,

You all seem to have forgotten that all vehicles must have RTA cover to be allowed on the road. When driving using the any other motor car facility in our policies, the car needs to be covered whilst it is parked at the side of the road:(.
The issue is similar to insurance cover for a caravan. The caravan is insured for RTA whilst attached to ones car but not when it is detached; separate cover is needed before it can be unhitched on the public highway.

I am the only driver in my household. I will shortly have two cars because of a promised father's day gift! I want to be able to drive either when it suites me but so far all quotations for a second car insurance treat me as though I am a new driver.

I have a friend on low income (disability pension) with both a 4x4 and a small car. I shall enquire how he manages the insurance; it won't help us though because he lives in England. I shall post his solution in the hope that our local insurance agents think it is a good idea.

Meanwhile I shall phone the AA whenever I want to drive my second car; they have not charged for a "temporary substitution" in the past:).