A cup of water is all...

Christomouse

If someone could help me out on this it would be fantastic, my friends and I were talkin' bout it for some time.

Last night (friday) I went went into a well known sandwich bar on westmoreland st. (don't think i can say the name here) at about 3.30am and asked for a meatball and cheese sub...oopsie doodle, may have given a hint to the name there. As I was about pay is asked "can I have a cup of tap water please". i was told NO, I would have to buy a bottle of mineral water. After some back and forth between the chap in charge and I, I was told pierce st. Garda station was just across the road if I had a problem with it.

Tonight (saturday) I went to the same franchise, different location (this time temple bar, just beside where eager beaver was) and the same thing happened, I asked for a cup of tap water and was told he couldn't give me a cup of tap water, that the paper cups were counted every day and they'd (i'm assuming management) would know if i was given a free cup of water because the "count would be wrong on the cups" (his words). I was told I could pay 1.95 for a cup and have all the water i wanted. It was weird cause when I was arguing over it the security guard didn't do the usual "get out" routine. He was pretty baffled too that I couldn't have a cup of water with the roll that was gonna cost me near 6 euro

I didn't buy the sambo either time on principal. I know it seems scabby but needless to say i was pretty annoyed over this. A multi national business won't even give you a cup of tap water for cryin' out loud cause they want every cent they can get from you.

Anyway I know I've heard before that an eatery has to provide tap water and toilet facilities for paying customers but I don't know if it's actual law. If anyone could let me know the facts that would be great.

lods

Don't think theres any law to say , they have to give you free water. The counting thng on the cups could be right. They do that in McDonalds for sure. Vote with your feet if you don't like it.

calex71

there's plenty of restaurants that wont give jugs of tap water either.
annoying given the amount a table of 4 would potentially spent on food and alcoholic drinks.

In the case of the sandwich place id have never though to ask for a cup of tap water oddly enough i must start trying though.

Here is a question though, if you went into a spar / garage deli counter and got a roll or sambo would you have asked them for a cup of tap water ? (many of the city ones also have small areas to sit in and eat)

Rabies

I think under Irish law they don't have to supply free water on request. I remember something on the radio years ago about someone complaining that clubs and pubs were charging for a glass of water.
Here in NZ it is legal requirement to supply fresh drinking water on request if you serve alcohol and the premises (not including liquor stores).

I don't see why you're shocked. Would you go into a green grocers and ask for a few grapes or a deli for a slice of cheese. They sell water and yet you want it for free. Plus you want to waste one of their cups. Not to mention that they pay for their water in one way or another.

If a busy shop gets 1k customers a day asking for water, at maybe 2c a cup, thats €7,300 a year. You have franchise managers whose livelyhood this is and you're putting staff in awkward positions when they're worried about their job.

Seriously, take a water bottle with you. Its numpty customers like that that make me glad to have very little customer contact anymore. Its retail....simple...we have stuff, you want it, you pay for it.

darc

I went into tesco yesterday and they wouldn't give me free potatoes!!:mad: - Sure they grow in the ground, so how dare Tesco not give them to me free!


Just like subway, tesco obviously don't pay rent or utilities or pay their staff, neither do the drivers that deliver them or the farmers that grow them - so as they have no costs, I should get everything for free!


OP - you're obviously young and have no idea how a business works. Free water = loss of revenue = less profit = not worth having store = closure.

And btw - Subway probably pay in the region of €2000+ per year for tap water just like every other food business. Non food businesses nationwide pay €400 + depending on size of premises for water.

krudler

Stop being a cheapskate and buy a drink like everyone else

Davy

Do they not have a water meter? I know a lot of commercial places that do, so then the tap water is not 'free'

I dont know about the counting cups, generally they are just at the till, you could take a few if you wanted, they might think your a bit strange but i dont think they would be calling the guards.

I would never have this problem because i wouldn't drink water with a meatball sub!!

rubadub

Christomouse wrote: »

Last night (friday) I went went into a well known sandwich bar on westmoreland st. (don't think i can say the name here)

Don't see why not, it is not like they did anything to be ashamed of. I would be shocked if any place like subway, mc donalds, BK, O'Briens or a chipper would give out a cup of water, it is unheard of, the security guard was probably baffled as he probably never heard somebody expecting it before.

I didn't buy the sambo either time on principal.

So where did you go? I doubt you would find many similar places handing out free water.

Lollipops23

it would never cross my mind to ask for water in somewhere like that, or micky ds/burger king. however i'd have no qualms about asking for a glass of water in a restaurant and i'd expect it to be free!even eddie rockets don't charge for it, and they're crazy expensive!!you just gotta accept that somewhere like a sambo bar are gonna have fairly thin profit margins, next time just buy a drink like everyone else,they're great value and they let you refill!

artielange

darc wrote: »

Free water = loss of revenue = less profit = not worth having store = closure.

In this case Charging for tap water=loss of revenue=less profit=boards thread:)

condra

^ I was going to mention Eddie Rockets too. It's one of the things I like about Empty Pockets, and one of the many reasons I eat there. My point being, a "free water policy" may actually be good for PR/business.

Presuming I had ordered some food, if I was ever refused a glass of tap water in any cafe/restaurant, I probably wouldn't be dining there again.

alexmcred

when I worked for mickey d's we were told we had to hand to give it out. Afaik it's illegal not to hand it out.

dvpower

Deleted User wrote: »

If a busy shop gets 1k customers a day asking for water, at maybe 2c a cup, thats €7,300 a year.

If a busy shop gets 1k customers a day asking for a sandwich, at maybe €6 each, thats €2,190,000 a year.

Deleted User wrote: »

Its retail....simple...we have stuff, you want it, you pay for it.

Ah... customer service. I remember that ... back in the day.

dvpower

darc wrote: »

OP - you're obviously young and have no idea how a business works. Free water = loss of revenue = less profit = not worth having store = closure.

Read the original post. He said he refused to buy the ~€6 sub because they wouldn't give him some free tap water.

Adjust the formula accordingly.
Lack of Free water = loss of revenue = less profit = not worth having store = closure.

I've never come accross a sit down restaurant that wouldn't supply free tap water with a meal. Seems to be a fast food thing.

tony1kenobi

dvpower wrote: »

Read the original post. He said he refused to buy the ~€6 sub because they wouldn't give him some free tap water.

Adjust the formula accordingly.
Lack of Free water = loss of revenue = less profit = not worth having store = closure.

I've never come accross a sit down restaurant that wouldn't supply free tap water with a meal. Seems to be a fast food thing.

The tap water maybe isn't fit for consumption.

The store sell bottled water. It's the principle. The OP was refused in one place then went to another looking for something he had been told he couldn't have. Sounds like little more than a sh1t stirrer.

wmpdd3

The ice is free, dispence it into your hand and wait for it to melt!!

jhegarty

tony1kenobi wrote: »

The tap water maybe isn't fit for consumption.

A restaurant without a clean water source would be a bigger concern.

the_syco

womoma wrote: »

^ I was going to mention Eddie Rockets too. It's one of the things I like about Empty Pockets, and one of the many reasons I eat there. My point being, a "free water policy" may actually be good for PR/business.

Do they give you the water in a paper cup, or a reusable glass/plastic cup?

condra

A half-litre glass glass usually usually.

ProperDeadly

I work in a food establishment where we sell tea/coffee etc in paper cups. And we are not allowed give out cups (with or without water in them) because the cups are counted for stock taking purposes. So maybe that is the reason?

jaffa20

Wow, a paper cup costs how much:eek:

Seriously, some businesses need to rethink how they do business. Not providing a glass of tap water is going to cost them business. I would choose eddie rockets over mc'ds or subways because of this.

krudler

jaffa20 wrote: »

Wow, a paper cup costs how much:eek:

Seriously, some businesses need to rethink how they do business. Not providing a glass of tap water is going to cost them business. I would choose eddie rockets over mc'ds or subways because of this.

No people need to rethink how big a gobshyte they're being, for christs sake is it took much to as for someone to pay for something these days? or have Irish people gone so far up their own holes we just expect everything for nothing? having dealt with the public in every job I've had just makes me despair for humanity when we have people like the op with too much time on their hands to whinge and bitch about everything instead of just shutting the **** up and paying for something like everyone else

taram

jhegarty wrote: »

A restaurant without a clean water source would be a bigger concern.

It's probably just standard water being piped in, the problem is it's likely to be stored in a tank, like domestic bathroom water, meaning it's clean and grand to use for dishwasher/toilets/washing hands but probably not 100% good for drinking. Like my water has been tested as perfect, but the tank water tastes a bit weird regardless of how newly it's been pumped in.

mags16

I believe that for the sake of goodwill, the tap water should have been given out. He/she was a paying customer after all.

Once, I was driving from Limerick to Dublin with a terrible head cold and I stopped in the garage at the roundabout in Roscrea to get some hot water to make lemsip. I got my cup of hot water, went to the till and expected to pay the price of tea. The very nice assistant wouldn't let me pay for it. As a result of that good will gesture, I make it my business to stop there if I need to break my journey. Good will pays.

ch750536

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't see why you're shocked. Would you go into a green grocers and ask for a few grapes or a deli for a slice of cheese. They sell water and yet you want it for free. Plus you want to waste one of their cups. Not to mention that they pay for their water in one way or another.

If a busy shop gets 1k customers a day asking for water, at maybe 2c a cup, thats €7,300 a year. You have franchise managers whose livelyhood this is and you're putting staff in awkward positions when they're worried about their job.

Seriously, take a water bottle with you. Its numpty customers like that that make me glad to have very little customer contact anymore. Its retail....simple...we have stuff, you want it, you pay for it.

Such a right wing quote, blimey.

The person is a customer, you could use the same argument for using the toilet or washing your hands. Giving out tap water should be part of the SERVICE not extra.

Vote with your feet, don't go back to subway. Follow it up with a letter to subway head office asking why this is policy, see what happens.

Damn right-wingers.

dvpower

taram wrote: »

It's probably just standard water being piped in, the problem is it's likely to be stored in a tank, like domestic bathroom water, meaning it's clean and grand to use for dishwasher/toilets/washing hands but probably not 100% good for drinking. Like my water has been tested as perfect, but the tank water tastes a bit weird regardless of how newly it's been pumped in.

Any restaurant without a fresh water supply shouldn't be operating as a restaurant. If its not good enough for drinking then its not good enough for food preperation either.

In Dublin, tap water is perfectly safe to consume.

cormie

I once heard that if somebody calls to your house asking for a glass of water, it's illegal to refuse them? That could be just a tail though.

I think business wise, it's pretty bad to charge for tap-water in any case. As is evident in this thread, people have said they will take their business elsewhere, in fact about 5 posters from about 24 posters have said this. That's quite a high percentage. And if you want to go by the calculations of the cost of a cup, saying 1K customers a day asking for water@2c a cup=7,300 a year lost, if by the same calculations you compare 5/24 (20%) of that 1k, so 200, not buying a €6 sandwich, in one day, that's €1,200 lost. So in one week, you've paid for your year supply of cups, by keeping all customers happy with a simple request of some tap water. I know these calculations are pretty much nowhere near reality of the actual demand of water/refusal to buy but losing a customer over what is a tiny tiny fraction of cost compared to the potential that customer has to spend in the chain is a bad move.

cc

i think the OP shouldn't of gone for the footlong and would of had enough left over to afford the bottle of water also :cool:
I can't believe how some people expect 5 star service from a fast food joint.....reminds me when i used to work in a late night coffee shop before the mobile thing happened. Was mostly a young place but occasionally a couple would come in after a show from the opera house which was just around the corner and ask for the bill and to ring them a taxi also....i could never work out whether just pointing politley to the payphone or asking them for the 20p and i would be more than happy to do it for them was the best way of responding considering they had only spend £2 on two coffee's!

dvpower

tony1kenobi wrote: »

The tap water maybe isn't fit for consumption.

This was in Dublin city centre. Tap water here is fit for consumption.

tony1kenobi wrote: »

The OP was refused in one place then went to another looking for something he had been told he couldn't have. Sounds like little more than a sh1t stirrer.

Sounds like a consumer. Fair play to him.

RATM

krudler wrote: »

No people need to rethink how big a gobshyte they're being, for christs sake is it took much to as for someone to pay for something these days? or have Irish people gone so far up their own holes we just expect everything for nothing? having dealt with the public in every job I've had just makes me despair for humanity when we have people like the op with too much time on their hands to whinge and bitch about everything instead of just shutting the **** up and paying for something like everyone else

Sound like typical Irish customer service tbh. Shut the fook up, gis yer money and get the fook out.

Christomouse

Thanks for all those helpful posts people, appreciated.
The water must have been fine to drink cause he said i could have it if I bought the cup for 1.95 which wasn't going to happen.

cc wrote: »

i think the OP shouldn't of gone for the footlong and would of had enough left over to afford the bottle of water also :cool:
I can't believe how some people expect 5 star service from a fast food joint.....

I wouldn't consider TAP water 5 star service, more like the most basic thing you ingest.

the_syco

womoma wrote: »

A half-litre glass glass usually usually.

Aye. It costs them nothing, as they'll get the glass back, rewash it, and reuse it. Subway would be giving out a paper cup which would be an instant loss if they gave it away for free. Also, due to the way they do business, there'd be nothing stopping people from getting refills from the drink machines after they finished their water...

McDonalds used to give out tap water... until they started selling it in bottles. There's a demand for water... lets sell it to them!

For shops in general, the "no drinking water" is usually bullsh|t to tell the customer. It shuts them up faster than saying "we have water in the back but you're not getting it, nah-nah nah-nah! :P"

What the OP did was... odd. If they went to a different frachise, that'd make sense. But they went to the same franchise, and expected a different policy? Mind boggling! Perhaps going to anohter franchise, and getting tap water, you could say X does it, but Y doesn't, but going to the same franchise, with the same policy... Albert Einstein is quoted to have said that insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". You went to the same franchise, and expected a different result?

People don't seem to realise that shops make a business out of selling stuff. If they gave water to one person for free, everyone could ask for water, and the business would lose moeny. If they said no one person may walk away, but the other 20 will probably say "oh, okay" and buy the bottle of water.

rubadub

RATM wrote: »

Sound like typical Irish customer service tbh. Shut the fook up, gis yer money and get the fook out.

Irish? I would not expect a free cup or water in any place like subway anywhere in the world.

The water must have been fine to drink cause he said i could have it if I bought the cup for 1.95 which wasn't going to happen.

people pay for tap water in other places, I don't see the big deal. http://www.tapdny.com/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2004/mar/20/medicineandhealth.lifeandhealth

The person is a customer, you could use the same argument for using the toilet or washing your hands. Giving out tap water should be part of the SERVICE not extra.

Many places will not have toilets either, there will usually be one in the back for staff use only. If it is part of the service then the cost will be included in the other stuff. So if people do not avail of the service they are paying for the other people who do. Providing toilet facilities costs money to maintain, as does giving out water free which they must pay for, water, cup, time etc.

Somebody mentioned they will go to eddie rockets instead, thats fine, with the prices they charge I have no doubt they already have the price/cost/loss factored in.

joey54

I was in a nightclub before and asked for a glass of tap water. They wouldn't give it. All through out the night I'd spent a fortune in the place and they couldn't even give me a glass of water!

Haven't been back to that place since!

blinding

If you have your own cup then it should be incumbent on any dining/take away service to give you free tap water.

I am conteplating whether to start up my own discreet cup making business.

Should I go for the blow up cup.

The bra that can be turned into two water vessels almost instantly.

The dual cup and condom.

The shoe cup.

Waterproof socks.

A giant Straw that can reach over the counter and to the water source preferably not the toilet.

The toilet cistern water extraction device (Straw again but perhaps with a drilling device to gain access to cistern.

Rain collection device.(upside down umbrella that obviously with a little ingenuity could have a second use in Ireland and would cut out the middle man)

Sweat collection device with desalination plant.

The Pothole water extraction device with purification plant.

syklops

joey54 wrote: »

I was in a nightclub before and asked for a glass of tap water. They wouldn't give it. All through out the night I'd spent a fortune in the place and they couldn't even give me a glass of water!

Haven't been back to that place since!

Goodman!

If only everyone had this view.

the_syco

joey54 wrote: »

I was in a nightclub before and asked for a glass of tap water. They wouldn't give it. All through out the night I'd spent a fortune in the place and they couldn't even give me a glass of water!

Pretty sure they must provide water in nightclubs. I think a workaround is to sell the stuff in bottles, though.

enda1

Does anyone have a link to the law regarding toilets and water in pubs, restaurants etc.?

MOH

the_syco wrote: »

Aye. It costs them nothing, as they'll get the glass back, rewash it, and reuse it. Subway would be giving out a paper cup which would be an instant loss if they gave it away for free.

As opposed to charging 1.95 for a plastic cup, which is a bit insane.
If they charged a reasonable amount to cover the cup ot might be justified, but that's insane.

Davy

the_syco wrote: »

Aye. It costs them nothing, as they'll get the glass back, rewash it, and reuse it.

The glass doesn't wash its self, and would cost a lot more than a paper cup would to begin with

Christomouse

enda1 wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to the law regarding toilets and water in pubs, restaurants etc.?

Type "Irish statue book" into google. Open the link and just use the sites search function. I couldn't find anything about serving tap water though.

rubadub

enda1 wrote: »

Does anyone have a link to the law regarding toilets and water in pubs, restaurants etc.?

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1988/en/si/0147.html

Cloakroom Facilities and Toilets
9. (1) A restaurant shall have cloakroom facilities and toilets.

(2) Toilets shall be provided separately for male and female customers and be easily accessible from all public areas of the restaurant.

(3) Such toilets shall contain:

( a ) water closets (hereinafter referred to as WC) in separate compartments;

( b ) fixed wash-hand basins equipped with plumbing for the continuous supply of hot and cold water and the disposal of waste.

(4) The minimum number and type of sanitary fittings installed in such toilets shall be calculated in relation to the number of diners to be accommodated in the premises at any one time as set out in the Table to this Regulation.

TABLE


No. of persons Male Female
Up to 25 1 WC, 1 urinal,

1 wash-hand basin
1 WC, 1 wash-hand basin

26—60 1 WC, 2 urinals,

1 wash-hand basin
2 WCs, 1 wash-hand basin

61—100 2 WCs, 2 urinals,

2 wash-hand basins
3 WCs, 2 wash-hand basins

101—250 1 additional WC for every additional 50 persons, 1 additional urinal for every additional 75 persons and 1 additional wash-hand basin for every additional 100 persons. 1 additional WC for every. additional 50 persons and 1 additional wash-hand basin for every additional 75 persons.

(5) The toilets in a restaurant shall be equipped with mirrors, towel rails, clothes hooks and a clean and ample supply of toilet requisites (including either or both towels and hand drying facilities, soaps, toilet paper, disposal bins and other necessary accessories).

(6) The toilets shall be well ventilated (by direct or mechanical means) and properly supervised and kept in a clean and hygienic condition.

"restaurant" means any premises which are structurally adapted and used for the purpose of supplying substantial meals to the public for consumption on the premises and in which any other business carried on is ancillary and subsidiary to the provision of such meals;

subway might not qualify as a restaurant.

MOH wrote: »

As opposed to charging 1.95 for a plastic cup, which is a bit insane.
If they charged a reasonable amount to cover the cup ot might be justified, but that's insane.

Well people are praising eddie rockets for giving out free water. A large coke there is €3.10 http://www.eddierockets.ie/iopen24/pub/Menu%20March%202009.pdf
AFAIK most of these places are using syrups and tap water. So you could similarly say if they charged a reasonable amount to cover the cup and the 5-10cent worth of syrup and gas "it might be justified, but €3.10 is insane"

the_syco wrote: »

Pretty sure they must provide water in nightclubs. I think a workaround is to sell the stuff in bottles, though.

I don't think so, I remember the temple of sound would cut off the water to the toilets too, as people refilled the water bottles there, they would just claim it was a water supply problem. More prevalent in "e friendly" clubs for obvious reasons.

A poster mentioned water being given to people calling to your house. I think that is a myth, I used to hear ones about public houses having to though, dating back to horse drawn coaches or something, might have only been in the UK, and might have changed since then.

joey54

As previous posters have said its not in the law that nightclubs and Pubs have to provide free water. In my opinion it should be and it might just prevent people from going that step too far when they're having drinks. i.e make people more likely to have a glass of water in between rounds!

P.C.

rubadub wrote: »

subway might not qualify as a restaurant.

"restaurant" means any premises which are structurally adapted and used for the purpose of supplying substantial meals to the public for consumption on the premises and in which any other business carried on is ancillary and subsidiary to the provision of such meals;

No, Subway is not a restuarant - they are a take away establishment. Their food is made for consumption off the premises.
So, they do not have to supply toilet facilities.

As for the water issue - vote with your feet.

Davy

P.C. wrote: »

No, Subway is not a restuarant - they are a take away establishment. Their food is made for consumption off the premises.
So, they do not have to supply toilet facilities.

As for the water issue - vote with your feet.

Not 100% true, most of them have tables and chairs and a lot do have toilets, and in and outside the pale

MB Lacey

I think it's a sad thing to read some people's greedy retail driven barks at the OP for asking for a free glass of tap water.

He should be given a free drink of water if he's already provided the company with their huge mark up on the sandwich.

ch750536

Who gives a **** if Subway have to legally give tap water or supply toilet facilities? You are all so far from the mark here.

If a complete stranger knocked on my door and asked me for a glass of water I would get them one, hell I may even invite them in for a beer.

Called being nice & civil. Just because you are a business does not mean that you have licence to behave like ***** and disregard common civil manners.

Lab_Mouse

AFAIK pubs/venues restaurants need to have running water.Use to go to dance nightclubs years ago and they would only have hot water in the jacks to stop people filling up the water bottles with cold water instead of buying it from the bar

krudler

P.C. wrote: »

No, Subway is not a restuarant - they are a take away establishment. Their food is made for consumption off the premises.
So, they do not have to supply toilet facilities.

As for the water issue - vote with your feet.

Ive never been in a subway that doesnt have chairs and tables in it

Davy

Op if you bought it on a friday you can now get a FREE DRINK and not just tap water when you buy any footlong