Alcohol Licence

irish87 · 29-04-2009 9:04am #1

Hey

First post but i can see alot of people respond here so said id give it a shot. Im interested in opening my own pub with a few people in my local town but im finding it hard pressed to find a site that tells me all the details i need to start off. At the minute we are making out a budget for it and we are stumped as too how much a licence for a pub is. I THINK its something along the lines of 168,000 or thereabouts.

If anyone could shed some light on this id greatly appreciate it.

dublander · 29-04-2009 10:09am

as far as i've heard, it's almost impossible to get a pub licence, you would probably have to buy an existing pub to acquire one

Bandara · 29-04-2009 10:16am

price fluctuates but its about 180k normally, add another 10k on for the legals etc

irish87 · 29-04-2009 10:52am

Yeah i hear that it is hard to get one alright, something to do with only a transfer of licences is only available now alright. And the cost of late night licence is really expensive. Is their any sites where i can research all this? its just that i cant find any.

RoadKillTs · 29-04-2009 11:00am

Yes think you can only get one by transferring an old license these days. I'm sure there must be a few for sale at the moment.

Bandara · 29-04-2009 11:10am

irish87 wrote: »

Yeah i hear that it is hard to get one alright, something to do with only a transfer of licences is only available now alright. And the cost of late night licence is really expensive. Is their any sites where i can research all this? its just that i cant find any.

Why not just ring the Vintners Association?

irish87 · 29-04-2009 1:09pm

I will do that, cheers.

Also im just doing a bit of research on it. I mean the place im living in there is only 2 main late night pubs really and Im wondering durinf the recession, would it be a bad time to even try this venture? I mean it has always been my dream to do it but dont want to pile alot of money into it to see it fall at first hurdle due to the recession being in place. Any other pub owners themselves notice much of a decline?

Dabko · 29-04-2009 1:50pm

They (the revenue) are no longer issuing booze on-sales licences. You must buy one seperatly.
The prices are anywhere from 150k to 185k, depending on a) how many endorsements are attached to the licence b) how desperatly the owner needs the sale c) how greedy the owner is.

The best place to source this information is through a solictior (and we wonder why they are expensive;)) They should have access to where/who is selling. But dont jump into it quickly. Shop around. This aint the tiger no more - haggle like a mtf.
I suggest putting a free ad in the buy & sell advertising that you are in the market. Let them come to you!

Also, in relation to "it has always been my dream", look long and hard at running a pub. The profit margins aint what they used to, the customers aint spending, and everything from rates to insurances have gone through the roof.

Dont mean to pis5 on your parade but its something you must plan very well for.
Best of luck Irish.

DaForceCork · 29-04-2009 8:03pm

would you not look at leasing a pub etc first?

irish87 · 30-04-2009 11:11am

You didnt Pi$$ on my parade mate you making me think long and hard about it, which is what i want. I want to be able to make a profit margin at the end of the day as most people do ya know?

As regards leasing, the pub, might not be a bad idea as regards building a foundation. I know theres one up for lease alright

DaForceCork · 30-04-2009 3:22pm

keep us posted along the way!!

I have friend who has a pub and also another who is looking to lease one at the mo!!

Don't forget to check out rates, water charges, insurance etc. imro if you are having music in the bar etc

irish87 · 30-04-2009 3:34pm

Your friend who started his pub, what bank did he use to get his business start up loan or was it financed by another party?

itsonlyme · 30-04-2009 10:44pm

irish87 wrote: »

Your friend who started his pub, what bank did he use to get his business start up loan or was it financed by another party?

AIB, Ulster & BOI are very open for business at the moment but you can be assured that they are really honing in on the "stress test" to ensure that all stands up.

It would appear that the smaller banks such as NIB, ACC, BOS are not interested in doing any "New" business.

itsonlyme · 30-04-2009 11:12pm

irish87 wrote: »

Hey

.... im finding it hard pressed to find a site....

Why Not Lease a pub!!

At the minute we are making out a budget for it and we are stumped as too how much a licence for a pub is. I THINK its something along the lines of 168,000 or thereabouts.

If anyone could shed some light on this id greatly appreciate it.

To operate and run a licenced premises you need to acquire "7 day Ordinary Publicans Licence" free of any endorsements or blemishes.

As these licences are not issued as required, only a certain amount of licences permitted by law, you must purchase this licence on the open market and pay the market value. In doing this you are, what is known as, "extinguishing a licence" on one premises and transferring the extinguished licence to your premises.

Licences were crazy, crazy prices two years ago. Currently the market value is dropping substantially and you can buy a licence for between 90,000 and 125,000.The reason for this sharp decline in price of licences is purely due to the fact that there is a large influx of licences after coming to market. There are quite a few licences in Cork for sale.

Between newspaper notices, auctioneer finder fee, solicitor fee and architect fee you will want to factor in about 20,000 to 25,000 in professional fees to get the licence transferred.

MrPillowTalk · 30-04-2009 11:13pm

Licences are easily obtained you need to purchase one and transfer it to your new premises. I bought one last year for 142k however the price for them when I checked a couple of months ago had dropped to 90k odd, it varies widely depending on supply and demand. If you watch the classifieds in the national newspapers you will see plenty of them for sale, shop around though. There are some solicitors that specialise in licencing law but so ling as its a clean licence any solicitor should be able to carry out the legal work required for the deed of transfer but you will need to engage a barrister for the court appearance to actually carry out the transfer.

I parted with 15k all in for the legals on mine, but Im sure it could have been acheived cheaper as I used a specialist solicitor.

As far as the banks go, its my experience at present that they are effectively closed to new business. They may claim otherwise but thats the situation on the ground.

EKRIUQ · 01-05-2009 7:40pm

Technically you can't actually buy a license, what happens is that one is extinguished to grant another so the amount of endorsements matter's very little. I sold one for a person 2 years ago and it sold for €170k but i imagine there gone down considerately as the demand from supermarkets has decreased and the in influx of licenses from closing rural pubs has increased. Legal fees and cost for selling is about €1,000.

DaForceCork · 01-05-2009 10:34pm

legal fees 1000?? is that a typo!! thought it be in the region of 10k for fees

itsonlyme · 01-05-2009 11:08pm

DaForceCork wrote: »

legal fees 1000?? is that a typo!! thought it be in the region of 10k for fees

Legal fees generally are not any lower than 7,500 plus Vodka And Tonic for an application. If a barrister is involved, normally in cases where an objection/observation has been noted in the applicaation, you could be looking at least double that figure.

I heard of a guy who bough a licence in Cork for 97,500 today.

DubTony · 02-05-2009 8:58am

Yup. Prices have dropped like a stone in the past 12 months. A year ago you'd have been looking at 150K, 6 months ago it was 120K. This obviously has a lot to do with the slowdown in the opening of c-stores with full booze. There's no doubt that the Centra and Spar people were a major cause of massive price inflation in this area. Having said all that, is it a wise investment at this time? A lot of the big pub groups seem to be struggling although this may have a lot to do with huge investment in buildings and refurbishing. Is this proposed venture in a major town?

@ MrPillowTalk: What did you put your licence into? Is it a pub, a shop? And how's it going?

irish87 · 02-05-2009 7:49pm

Justt goes to show you this place is a great source of brainstorming ideas. Many thanks to all that took time out to reply back.

I suppose the only way to succeed is to have a well laid out plan and just take the plunge. Finances will be hard though (God damn recession

) but im alot on the side of leasing atm too i guess. But researching the differences at the minute. like for example i say a pub for sale for 900k and to lease it was 4k a month. Youd want to be pulling in some amount of cash at the end of the week

EKRIUQ · 02-05-2009 8:09pm

DaForceCork wrote: »

legal fees 1000?? is that a typo!! thought it be in the region of 10k for fees

That's for selling, not buying, all you need is a solicitor in court. Buying I'm sure would be a different matter with planning permission etc..

DaForceCork · 03-05-2009 1:54pm

as a matter of interest how much are the legal fees for purchasing a license from some one?

Bicky · 03-05-2009 4:19pm

You should maybe try this book for legal info.
The Licensed Trade: a users handbook by Constance Cassidy.

The essentials of managing a licensed premise are
outlined, including:
• Trading hours and late night trading
• Control of premises
• Occupiers liability
• Under-age persons
• The smoking ban
• Employees rights
• The right to refuse

MrPillowTalk · 04-05-2009 5:52pm

DubTony wrote: »

Yup. Prices have dropped like a stone in the past 12 months. A year ago you'd have been looking at 150K, 6 months ago it was 120K. This obviously has a lot to do with the slowdown in the opening of c-stores with full booze. There's no doubt that the Centra and Spar people were a major cause of massive price inflation in this area. Having said all that, is it a wise investment at this time? A lot of the big pub groups seem to be struggling although this may have a lot to do with huge investment in buildings and refurbishing. Is this proposed venture in a major town?

@ MrPillowTalk: What did you put your licence into? Is it a pub, a shop? And how's it going?

Its a pub, called McNeills on Capel Street. Its open since Xmas and has basically traded at just above breakeven since the day I opened the door, which tbh I was suprised at as I sort of expected to lose a fair ammount in the first 6 months or so. Feedback has been really good and we seem to be attracting a really nice crowd, fingers crossed it will be onwards and upwards with the summer coming in,

Bicky · 05-05-2009 9:55pm

Hi irish87,
Have a read of this thread this thread and this one on askaboutmoney. They are an interesting read.
I would also love to own my own pub, however i dont think the current climate is a great time to begin trading. I watch the asking prices for pubs on daft and have seen large drops over the previous few months. It just goes to show that they were obviously overpriced because of the property boom and not based on the actual turnover of the business in question.

What kind of pub are you thinking of opening?
Is the target audience young, old or in between?
Will you serve food?
Will it be a music pub? Sports pub?
Are you building a place from scratch and do you have a site in mind?

Alcohol Licence

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