I found a house We LOVE....I really want to buy...How can I get the best price???

~Trixiebelle~

Hey Guys, The housing estate near us that we have been wanting to buy in for over 1 year, has finally dropped the prices to a realistic (currently the best value around) price for the area. We really want to buy the showhouse because:

Its already built and we know what we are buying.
Its at the start of the estate loads of green areas and not overlooked.
Its a corner house.
Really low density houses and finished off beautifully.
I love the idea of just hanging up my coat its exactly to my taste, so budgeting to buy will be easy.

I spoke to the EA and he said he will get back to me re the price of the Show house but that 50k worth of stuff went into it. The EA wants 350k for a standard 3bed :rolleyes:but when i said forget it, he said that the builder would go to 330k no lower... I still think we could better than that. What should we be aiming for to buy the show house???

RasTa

Where is it?

niceirishfella

Your Question Op is "How can i get the best price"

Answer is "wait for 2 or 3 more years".
The bottom is no where in sight.
Buy now and you will seriously regret it.

irlrobins

The op's question was not "how can I get best price for any house", it was "how do I get the best price for this particular house". So rolling out the usual "bottom not reached" response doesn't apply here. The OP also stated that the showhouse fulfils many of her requirements.

OP, if you have approval in principle already this can be an effective argument to get a lower price. A builder these days will often go with a lower price if the buyer can guarantee that they a) can afford that price and b) don't have an existing property they need to dispose of thus resulting in a quick definite sale.

As to the EA's comment about 50K of stuff going into it, you could argue that was a) before deprecation and b) prices of such goods has fallen since then. TI's not what it's worth then that counts, it's what it's worth now.

No harm in lodging an offer and just keep at him. Worst he can say is no.

niceirishfella

Irlrobbins,

You're talking BS here. Read the OP's heading. The word "particular" was not used. Open your eyes.

irlrobins

True, the heading/title did not say particular. But the body of the post only talked about one house, not a/any house. So my comment is correct. If she waits 2/3 years, the showhouse that she wants will be long sold.

El Stuntman

start by offering 40% less than they want and tell them they have a week to decide

they'll ring you in six months wondering if your offer is still valid

then tell them you want another 20% off



(somewhat facetious but my point is DO NOT BE IN A HURRY; time is your friend in this market. Personally I'd wait two more years before buying, there is nothing underpinning Irish house prices)

Mugatu

El Stuntman wrote: »

start by offering 40% less than they want and tell them they have a week to decide

they'll ring you in six months wondering if your offer is still valid

then tell them you want another 20% off



(somewhat facetious but my point is DO NOT BE IN A HURRY; time is your friend in this market. Personally I'd wait two more years before buying, there is nothing underpinning Irish house prices)

So what is going to happen in two years time? Seems to me that no matter what price someone can get a house, they like and they can afford the same people come out and say wait another 8 months, 1 year and now 2 years.

As for what to bid, it has to be really tough to say without knowing the house or the circumstances. If you think there is another 20% to come off the house price between now and when it will sell then factor that into your bid. Like any major purchase go into it with your eyes open and get the best price for you. Good luck!!

irlrobins

Mugatu wrote: »

get the best price for you.

This is the key piece of info...

Rayan

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

Hey Guys, The housing estate near us that we have been wanting to buy in for over 1 year, has finally dropped the prices to a realistic (currently the best value around) price for the area. We really want to buy the showhouse because:

Its already built and we know what we are buying.
Its at the start of the estate loads of green areas and not overlooked.
Its a corner house.
Really low density houses and finished off beautifully.
I love the idea of just hanging up my coat its exactly to my taste, so budgeting to buy will be easy.

I spoke to the EA and he said he will get back to me re the price of the Show house but that 50k worth of stuff went into it. The EA wants 350k for a standard 3bed :rolleyes:but when i said forget it, he said that the builder would go to 330k no lower... I still think we could better than that. What should we be aiming for to buy the show house???

EA wants 350
Builder will accept 330

Based on the price the builder will sell for, predicting house prices to continue dropping for 2 years (there's no way they can possibly rise in that time, unless the banks suddenly acquire tens of billions of euro and start throwing money at people again),

So 12% drop in the 1st year would make it €290,000 in April 2010
Another modest 12% drop in the 2nd year would make it €255,000 by April 2011

This is the current direction the market is taking.

That's not that long, to be nearly €80k in negative equity. I would get mortgage approval for, and offer €240,000. That's just me personally though, based on reading about the economy and the property market. You lose nothing by making such an offer though. But have a LOT to gain.

El Stuntman

contemplate these two graphs before you do anything:

bubble graph

Irish house prices

anyone thinking of buying should be forced to look at these for hours on end

rugbyman

trixie.
though all the opinions given here have some validity, there are many more factors on which info is needed to gauge a price.

In my area there are 3 bed s, new, in good locations for under 200,ooo euro. though i am not familiar with other parts of the country, other than dublin i doubt if a house is good value in that estate for 330k.

Are they still building ?

How many , if any, have sold in the last three months. put the same questions to another development in the area. if there are any,

Speak to your mortgage provider to see what they value the houses at, or whether they have already financed any , from which a speculator might want to get out of?

You did not say if you already have a house.

My advice, never fall in love with a house, stay cool, and try and meet the builder. As for estate agents, without being nasty , it is hard to believe what they say.

One person who replied ,said there may be a fall of 80 k over two years, if he /she is only half right,, you can rent a palace in the meantime.

reading back thru this, i see your question is not answered, how to get that house at the best price.....

Regards, Rugbyman

PCPhoto

I like those graphs ...explains the essentials of economics situation of house purchase.

OP... My personal opinion is to offer what you think the place is worth, if you can afford to pay and you want it.... then do it , but remember that it'll loose value pretty much straight away.(Doesnt everything)

Anyway - as others have said - there are not too many people purchasing houses at the moment so that puts you in a strong position.

Best of luck !!

Oh ! in answer to your question : How can I get the best price? ...... IMO you can get the best price by talking with the seller/EA and offering a decent price for a house/home that will loose value...just a question of how much will it loose.

niceirishfella

irlrobins wrote: »

True, the heading/title did not say particular

glad you cleared that up and therefore you were wrong.:P
This is the way it is OP.
You are letting your heart rule your head/money/mortgage going forward for life.
Regardless of the nice curtins,finish,furniture, you will buy a house like this possibly 30% cheaper in 2 years and you can furnish it 100% to your liking and budget.
It make no sense to buy now,just cos its nice, and has nice stuff in it.

~Trixiebelle~

thanks for the replys!!:) Its just the one particular house!!

To answer a couple of questions the house is in Wicklow Town and this is the second time we have viewed this house to put an offer in. The 1st time was in sept and we tried to engage in talks re the price and the EA came back with a response from builder, that we would have to pay over 395k before he would talk and at that he would be taking out some of the spec!! We told him we were thinking more of the lines of 375k.. We never got that call back!!(thank god :eek:!!) We dont want the showhouse for curtains and furniture, although its nice and i wouldnt complain if we got it for a decent price but its the aspect and location in the estate.

I went into the EA's today to see if the builder is starting to get sense on his prices and he seems to have made some progress. Tbh, i dont know what the hell is going on with prices in Wicklow Town? House prices aren't coming down as much as everywhere else! There is houses left empty and the builders are just knocking off a couple of quid nothing like the drops we see in the rest of the country.

The properties that go on the market for less (around 20k)than similar properties in the area are selling within 3-4weeks?!! There seems to be stop on building houses that are unsold.

I really dont feel like we have all this bargaining power people think we should... The EA just rang me back and says he wants 360k for the showhouse and if he is not prepared to comedown from that i will walk away.... again...:( I really think 330k for the showhouse and not a cent more. what do you guys think??

Rayan

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

I really dont feel like we have all this bargaining power people think we should... The EA just rang me back and says he wants 360k for the showhouse and if he is not prepared to comedown from that i will walk away.... again...:( I really think 330k for the showhouse and not a cent more. what do you guys think??

Did the EA up the price?

Earlier you said the EA wants 350k but the builders will accept 330k?

Or is this 2 different properties?

As I said earlier, I wouldn't pay any more than €240,000 for the showhouse at the moment. Yes they will more than likely refuse the offer and laugh, but that's just me personally who would make that offer, based on market trends and the current economy.

Have you both got secure jobs for the next 30 years?

Can you afford the repayments + possible interest rate rises for that time period?

How would you feel if you could have got the house for €290,000 (which means lower monthly mortgage payments) in 1 years time? Or €250,000 in 2 years?

These are the questions you need to look at. If it's been on the market since last September, I don't think it's going anywhere in a hurry.

Senna

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

...... pay over 395k before he would talk and at that he would be taking out some of the spec!! We told him we were thinking more of the lines of 375k.. We never got that call back!!(thank god :eek:!!)

What are you thanking god for now, your doing the exact same thing now (thinking of buying) and will be looking at the exact same figures in a years time. You will buy now for 330k and then see that he will accept 260k next year. 395k was too dear, 330k is ok, but when its 260k you'll curse/thank god that you did/didn't buy at 330k.

I dont know Wicklow town, but i cant see how even 260k would be value for a 3 bed semi. Also unless that estate is completed with every house finished i wouldn't touch it with a barge poll, you'll be living in a building site for years, probably with the developer eventually going bust and nothing ever being finished by him.

bobbiw

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

Hey Guys, The housing estate near us that we have been wanting to buy in for over 1 year, has finally dropped the prices to a realistic (currently the best value around) price for the area. We really want to buy the showhouse because:

Its already built and we know what we are buying.
Its at the start of the estate loads of green areas and not overlooked.
Its a corner house.
Really low density houses and finished off beautifully.
I love the idea of just hanging up my coat its exactly to my taste, so budgeting to buy will be easy.

I spoke to the EA and he said he will get back to me re the price of the Show house but that 50k worth of stuff went into it. The EA wants 350k for a standard 3bed :rolleyes:but when i said forget it, he said that the builder would go to 330k no lower... I still think we could better than that. What should we be aiming for to buy the show house???

50k worth of stuff went into it, really do they think you are stupid.

Kitchen appliances - 6k
Living room - 2-3k
bedrooms - 1k each

thats for good stuff, so thats more like 12k, If they have 60 inch flat screens in each bedroom and bose suround sound throughout the house then you could add another 10k.

Add an outdoor hottub and maybe a outdoor kitchen with BBQ and wet bar and thats another 10k.

Oh and if they throw in a new car that might be 20k.

But even at that its too expensive, that house will drop 50% before it goes back up again.

Rayan

Rayan wrote: »

Did the EA up the price?

Earlier you said the EA wants 350k but the builders will accept 330k?
.

Bet the EA is jacking it up to take a huge cut anyway

Kipperhell

bobbiw wrote: »

50k worth of stuff went into it, really do they think you are stupid.

Kitchen appliances - 6k
Living room - 2-3k
bedrooms - 1k each

thats for good stuff, so thats more like 12k, If they have 60 inch flat screens in each bedroom and bose suround sound throughout the house then you could add another 10k.

Add an outdoor hottub and maybe a outdoor kitchen with BBQ and wet bar and thats another 10k.

Oh and if they throw in a new car that might be 20k.

But even at that its too expensive, that house will drop 50% before it goes back up again.

Those estimates of costs are incredible low as most show houses would include furniture and fitted stuff not standard in the rest of the estate. 50k is probably high but a bed in a show house alone would probably be over 1k, fitted curtains and blinds could set you back a lot and that is not even considering other things such as dinning sets which are often bought for show houses.

I would also doubt the certainty in which anybody can make the claim that any particular house will drop 50% without seeing the place. Overall market price could drop that amount but any rise or drop will depend on the property itself.

OP if you really want the place then it might be good for you. In saying that I would say you could find better than any new build within your range. There are benefits from new and old but I just find it hard to believe a new build is anybody's dream house given modern building techniques and plot size.

holly1

My daughter is looking at a four bed,end house in Edenderry for 230,000.She is making offers at the moment.The first offer last week 200k- refused,208k today fingers crossed.She will go as far as 215k and then walk.

~Trixiebelle~

Rayan wrote: »

Did the EA up the price?

Earlier you said the EA wants 350k but the builders will accept 330k?

Or is this 2 different properties?.

No, this is what really annoyed me!!:mad: Its like before we even got to deal in prices he reduced it and said thats the lowest price!?? It kinda of takes the power out of your hand!! but dont get me wrong, i have done my research in the area and im not getting sucked into what he is saying.

[/quote]As I said earlier, I wouldn't pay any more than €240,000 for the showhouse at the moment. Yes they will more than likely refuse the offer and laugh, but that's just me personally who would make that offer, based on market trends and the current economy.[/quote]

Do you think we are at that level yet for the area?... I do expect we will get there but i really dont think i can bear to wait!! I know its sounds silly but living in my CH is really getting us down.:( I was thinking by the time we may wish to sell (wouldnt be for at least 10yrs) the prices will be up abit again and we will be a third the way through the mortgage.

[/quote]Have you both got secure jobs for the next 30 years?.[/quote]

Can anyone be sure anymore?:o

[/quote]Can you afford the repayments + possible interest rate rises for that time period?.[/quote]

yep, i would hope so. We have good saving so we will put some off the house and keep some for rainy days.

[/quote]How would you feel if you could have got the house for €290,000 (which means lower monthly mortgage payments) in 1 years time? Or €250,000 in 2 years?.[/quote]

These are exactly all the points we have been considering for the last few months and we even decided that we would wait for a year or two before we buy but in the area they have ceased building bar a few apartments/duplex properties which wouldnt suit. tbh, if i knew it would be there in 1 year i would wait to buy. Its crazy but houses that come in at slashed prices in the area are selling!! The other suitable houses where bought and built in boom years. People seem to be hanging on even now, so unless its a forced sale..? I cant imagine people selling in such a big negative equity.

[/quote]These are the questions you need to look at. If it's been on the market since last September, I don't think it's going anywhere in a hurry.[/quote]

I agree with this but the builder (i dont know if i can say so edit if its a prob!! cheiftain) wouldnt negociate (sp?) and wasn't open to offers.

DJDC

The EA can sense your desperation and is playing you like any experienced salesman. Dual income households and the "nesting" tendency of women were one of the key drivers of the Irish bubble in house prices.

You need to take a step back and think about this purchase a bit more. The chances are the EA heard you say the words "love","really like", "adore" etc. in relation to the house and from past experience realises he can milk you for all you are worth. Dont EVER use any kind of subjective adjectives like the above in front of a salesmen, its a key lesson in bargaining pyschology.

~Trixiebelle~

DJDC wrote: »

The EA can sense your desperation and is playing you like any experienced salesman. Dual income households and the "nesting" tendency of women were one of the key drivers of the Irish bubble in house prices.

You need to take a step back and think about this purchase a bit more. The chances are the EA heard you say the words "love","really like", "adore" etc. in relation to the house and from past experience realises he can milk you for all you are worth. Dont EVER use any kind of subjective adjectives like the above in front of a salesmen, its a key lesson in bargaining pyschology.

I think that is some really good advice! Although i dont fully agree with the "nesting" tendency of women!! Himself is just as bad if not worse than me!!:D

I really do think we have to think about the purchase price. The house we do (dare i say!) love but its not at all costs. The truth is we don't have to buy but we want to. I just get so frustrated with trying to deal with the EAs in my area. You honestly seem to get more customer service buying a pair of shoes than a house!!:mad: They really make you feel stupid, when you say that the house is overpriced and that we are dreaming that it will fall lower. We aren't looking for the bottom price but near to it would be great but when will that be!?! It does freak me out that houses are coming on the market and selling soon after. We have viewed many of them and believed them to be well overpriced, are other purchasers seeing something im not?? Im certainly not doing anything rash.... hence starting this thread.... thanks for opinions!!:D

iguana

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

Do you think we are at that level yet for the area?... I do expect we will get there but i really dont think i can bear to wait!! I know its sounds silly but living in my CH is really getting us down.

You believe the house will fall to €90k less than you are willing to pay yet you don't want to wait? Would it make a difference if I point out that over the lifetime of a mortgage that €90k will cost you at least as much again in interest payments, probably more? Is it worth waiting another year or two for the sake of €180k?

SoupyNorman

Trixi.....I'm reading this and all I keep saying/screaming is "DONT BUY"!


Seriously, 'Love' is a condition that causes us humans to act irrationally. The outcomes of this irrationality can have many consequences, in your case it will have a financial consequence.


I feel your pain, Im so ready to buy too, I hate renting but at the moment it makes more sense to rent...there is zero sense in buying and no offence but there is less then zero sense in buying in Wicklow Town...currently.


My home town in Tipp built like there was no tomorrow in a town with a population of less then 1000 during the last 7years, up until recently 3bed semi's were 250k+, however one horse has bolted and has gone to 169k but I know it still will not sell. Point is, nobody is buying...the result is the price will fall, please hold off and let your patience prevail.


If I ever met you I'd probably try shake some sense into you


To answer your question, you will get the best price by waiting.

Thoie

Going back to the €50k worth of "extras".

I'd argue this figure down with him on a few points, the main one being with people traipsing in and out of the place for hours at a time, things like the flooring may need to replaced a lot sooner than you'd expect in a normal family home. All these things have been in there since at least September, so combine that with the possibility that if the heating in the place was off 5 days a week over the winter - soft furnishings like curtains *might* have got a bit damp. Items such as fridges/cookers/bathroom suites/tiles shouldn't be included in that €50k if they came as standard in all other houses in the estate.

As other people have said, €50k of extras sounds like a lot - I'd want a detailed list of what all these extras are, and then decide if they're worth it.

Tigger

i am offering very low monies on houses have been for a while now
i had an offer accepted at %57 of peak thats 43% less than it was for the other houses in that estate.

if they wanted 230 tell yer daughter 180 and wait thats my feeling

Trotter

What happens in the situation where a liquidator now owns the new houses in an estate?

If someone offers the liquidator say 200k now for a house listed at 300k, would it be accepted do you think, and would this be a good deal?

SoupyNorman

Trotter wrote: »

What happens in the situation where a liquidator now owns the new houses in an estate?

If someone offers the liquidator say 200k now for a house listed at 300k, would it be accepted do you think, and would this be a good deal?

I think €50k would be a reasonable offer if the liquidator had possession.

Tigger

SoupyNorman wrote: »

I think €50k would be a reasonable offer if the liquidator had possession.

seems low

Rayan

Is there any way you could rent the showhouse for a year or 2? Make the builder an offer.

~Trixiebelle~

SoupyNorman wrote: »

Trixi.....I'm reading this and all I keep saying/screaming is "DONT BUY"!


Seriously, 'Love' is a condition that causes us humans to act irrationally. The outcomes of this irrationality can have many consequences, in your case it will have a financial consequence.


I feel your pain, Im so ready to buy too, I hate renting but at the moment it makes more sense to rent...there is zero sense in buying and no offence but there is less then zero sense in buying in Wicklow Town...currently.


My home town in Tipp built like there was no tomorrow in a town with a population of less then 1000 during the last 7years, up until recently 3bed semi's were 250k+, however one horse has bolted and has gone to 169k but I know it still will not sell. Point is, nobody is buying...the result is the price will fall, please hold off and let your patience prevail.


If I ever met you I'd probably try shake some sense into you


To answer your question, you will get the best price by waiting.

haha!! i can pratically hear you shouting in my ear!!

Yeh, I take all your points on board and I think i will certainly not act in the next coming weeks, at least until the relaunch. I am so eager to see the asking price!! I certainly don't trust the EA's, nothing he said was on paper. I just cant believe that other FTB's in my area are buying so quickly and so close to the asking prices. It makes me feel like we are waiting for further massive drops that aren't going to happen!:o

~Trixiebelle~

Rayan wrote: »

Is there any way you could rent the showhouse for a year or 2? Make the builder an offer.

Not really Rayan, We are in CH, the rent is far cheaper than what we would pay the builder and he hasnt actually reduced the house prices, so he still has cards up his sleeves. Its not his last resort just yet.

~Trixiebelle~

Thoie wrote: »

Going back to the €50k worth of "extras".

I'd argue this figure down with him on a few points, the main one being with people traipsing in and out of the place for hours at a time, things like the flooring may need to replaced a lot sooner than you'd expect in a normal family home. All these things have been in there since at least September, so combine that with the possibility that if the heating in the place was off 5 days a week over the winter - soft furnishings like curtains *might* have got a bit damp. Items such as fridges/cookers/bathroom suites/tiles shouldn't be included in that €50k if they came as standard in all other houses in the estate.

As other people have said, €50k of extras sounds like a lot - I'd want a detailed list of what all these extras are, and then decide if they're worth it.

The appliances and flooring didnt come as standard in the other houses and they did get the garden landscaped, fitted wrought iron side gate, patio etc... They built a plasma in the wall and its fully furnished but i can't see 50k put in myself. The cost of everything has dropped and there is sales in every store. I certainly wouldnt pay 50k for second hand stuff!:eek:! The EA quoted a figure of 30k for the extras which is still crazy.

Its hard enough trying to strike a deal when it comes to buying a house but having to come up with a deal for the rig out thats in it?!

OK, im starting to see the light.....just a bit...

~Trixiebelle~

iguana wrote: »

You believe the house will fall to €90k less than you are willing to pay yet you don't want to wait? Would it make a difference if I point out that over the lifetime of a mortgage that €90k will cost you at least as much again in interest payments, probably more? Is it worth waiting another year or two for the sake of €180k?

When you say it back it does seem crazy....waiting is crap though.:(

I was thinking that we have really good savings so we could afford to sit out a loss for a year or 2 (we would be borrowing about 65%). The mortgage would be about the same as the rent. (sorry i dont want to start the "dead money" arguement!!:D). I know that we could get a better deal in the long term but its tempting just to think in the short and live for now.

iguana

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

When you say it back it does seem crazy....waiting is crap though.:(

It is crap, it's natural to want to settle into your own place. I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at houses I like online and fantasising about living in them.:o I'm so angry about the stupid unsustainable boom that has caused this part of my life to be put on hold. But on the otherhand I think about how prices falling means each year I wait is 5 years off the end of my mortgage and I think it's worth the wait.

Pat Mustard

If you really want this house, as opposed to another house, and you want to get best value for money, then I think you should:

1. Talk directly to the developer rather than going through the estate agent, if possible. He may try to direct you back to the estate agent, but you are a buyer and this is a buyers' market.

2. Put yourself in the developer's position. He is probably wondering where his next few hundred grand is coming from, just to keep up his own loan repayments. He is more desperate to sell than you think that you are desperate to buy.

3. If you want to be in a good position to bargain, you should have as many options as possible. Therefore, you may need to consider what your alternatives are if you don't get this house for the right money. Maybe you should throw a few speculative bids on other houses, and see what happens.

The above apply if you really want this house. What you described about this house doesn't sound unique. It just sounds like the house met criteria that you have. There are going to be so many more houses for sale in one or two years, and they are going to be so much cheaper.

I think that the only way to really get good value on a house is to be totally objective about it. Being objective, now is a bad time to buy, but if you really have to, then decide on a price (consider what it will be worth in 2 years) and then stick to it. If they don't accept it, then you should move on.

stepbar

The best thing to do OP is to log on to CRO.ie and purchase the last set of accounts he filed. Pay particular notice to his creditors (particularly the bank debt) and the amount of money he has in Cash on the balance sheet. And then make an offer or better still wait a few months..... The price you've been quoted just sounds like madness.

Senna

Ok if your set on buying this house and you realise the possible/probable huge mistake your making, then the best course of action would be to negotiate a price for a non show house, preferably a very similar house (same aspect etc).

I would go back to the EA, tell them that you just cant afford the showhouse but you would be interested in putting in a bid for a different one in the same estate. Now you should start low with the other house bid and try and get it for at least 20k less than you would want to pay for the show house. If you do negotiate a good price for the other house, pay the booking deposit (make sure EA or solicitor keeps it, not developer) and get them to draw up contracts (but tell your solicitor to ignore them).
Once a few weeks have past, contact the EA again and tell them that you no longer want the house, as your heart was set on the showhouse, tell them you want the booking deposit back ASAP. This is an EA's and developers nightmare, not getting sales is one thing, but losing sales they think they have got is much worse.
Tell them that you would be willing to pay the negotiated price (for the normal house) plus 20k for the showhouse. I think this is the best course of action if you want the house now. At the moment they are putting a higher price on the showhouse because of the extras but also because they need the showhouse to use it to sell other houses in the estate, once you find the lowest price they would take for a non showhouse they will be more open to selling the show house if it means they might lose a sale.

~Trixiebelle~

iguana wrote: »

It is crap, it's natural to want to settle into your own place. I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at houses I like online and fantasising about living in them.:o I'm so angry about the stupid unsustainable boom that has caused this part of my life to be put on hold. But on the otherhand I think about how prices falling means each year I wait is 5 years off the end of my mortgage and I think it's worth the wait.

hehe!! I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at houses too!!:D God, im so sad that the 1st thing i do when i come in for work is check daft and myhome for new properties! I so look forward to it! i really do stalk it!:)

I feel really angry about the whole situation too, even though we haven't bought, we still are suffering and paying for other peoples greed... sometimes it just feels like we are in a lose/lose situation. We always intended on doing things the "right" way, as in save a really good deposit and not borrow excessively. I think everything in this country is so unknown and buying would make us feel like we have more control of our own lives again, rather than trying to decifer what may happen in the future through the media and making our purchase off the back of it. If that makes any sense!!!...:P

I think thats a really great way of looking at things (every year you wait is 5 years off mortgage). I'm re-thinking this possible purchase.

Mugatu

~Trixiebelle~ wrote: »

hehe!! I spend a ridiculous amount of time looking at houses too!!:D God, im so sad that the 1st thing i do when i come in for work is check daft and myhome for new properties! I so look forward to it! i really do stalk it!:)

I feel really angry about the whole situation too, even though we haven't bought, we still are suffering and paying for other peoples greed... sometimes it just feels like we are in a lose/lose situation. We always intended on doing things the "right" way, as in save a really good deposit and not borrow excessively. I think everything in this country is so unknown and buying would make us feel like we have more control of our own lives again, rather than trying to decifer what may happen in the future through the media and making our purchase off the back of it. If that makes any sense!!!...:P

I think thats a really great way of looking at things (every year you wait is 5 years off mortgage). I'm re-thinking this possible purchase.

I can't see why you would not try and offer the builder what you think the house will be worth in 2 years time? If you believe the house will fall another 20% factor that into your bid and see what happens. Who knows you might get the house you want, for a price it may or may not fall to in 2 years.

You can be sure that in 2 years time if you pop onto a board like this and ask the question should I buy now the same amount of people will say "Wait the perfect price is only months/ years away!!"

Best of luck with what you decide.

kingofthecastle

op i'd ask you to keep this in mind. it was the popular view only about 3 years ago that if you didnt buy then you'd never get on the property ladder.People were buying because they were afraid that they would'nt be able to afford to in the future.

Now it is the popular view that property prices will continue to decrease for another 2+ years. Just becasue its the popular view does not make it fact. in the same way the property boom was built on greed, the property slump is beginning to exhibit the same greed with investors staying out of the market in the hunt for the "bottoming out" price. ironically then when the market appears to be bottoming out the influx of those greedy investors pushes prices up again.

therefore, in my humble opinion the best time to buy is when the popular opinion says not to buy and when the immediate future market expectations are for house prices to continue to decrease

offer 20% less than the asking price and if you can afford an 80% mortgage then you should never have to worry about negative equity

SkepticOne

kingofthecastle wrote: »

therefore, in my humble opinion the best time to buy is when the popular opinion says not to buy and when the immediate future market expectations are for house prices to continue to decrease

offer 20% less than the asking price and if you can afford an 80% mortgage then you should never have to worry about negative equity

But the popular view that prices were going to continue to rise was there for at least five or six years before the market turned. Likewise the popular view currently that prices are going to continue to fall may also exist for five or six years.

There's still a lot of denial about and this is reflected in the low numbers of houses coming on to the market at present. Inventory is high not because of large numbers of people selling but because of the almost complete absence of buyers at present. We have not yet had a capitulation with investors dumping their properties en masse onto the market.

After this capitulation occurs then it will be the time to buy even though it will still be the popular opinion that prices will continue to fall.

dny123456

SkepticOne wrote: »

We have not yet had a capitulation with investors dumping their properties en masse onto the market.

After this capitulation occurs then it will be the time to buy even though it will still be the popular opinion that prices will continue to fall.

This event will probably never occur. For it to happen the banks would have had to force the hands of the developers. The banks no longer need to do this, since the guarantee. It is not in their interests for this to happen and they now have no necessity to force it. So, in short, it won't happen. It'll be a long long slow grind downwards from here on (10yrs+ imho). We've already had the major drop.

SkepticOne

Given the help they have given the party, the developers were always going to be looked after, but I was thinking more of the amateur buy-to-let landlords who made up a large percentage of those who purchased from the developers in the latter stages of the bubble.

gurramok

dny123456 wrote: »

This event will probably never occur. For it to happen the banks would have had to force the hands of the developers. The banks no longer need to do this, since the guarantee. It is not in their interests for this to happen and they now have no necessity to force it. So, in short, it won't happen. It'll be a long long slow grind downwards from here on (10yrs+ imho). We've already had the major drop.

I think SkepticOne is talking about primarily BTL's with mortgages, not developers. What you say doe snot affect them. What affects them is negative equity and if they can make a return on their investment among other things!

When these get hit en masse, expect the major drop to happen.

ixus

stepbar wrote: »

The best thing to do OP is to log on to CRO.ie and purchase the last set of accounts he filed. Pay particular notice to his creditors (particularly the bank debt) and the amount of money he has in Cash on the balance sheet. And then make an offer or better still wait a few months..... The price you've been quoted just sounds like madness.

I'd add to this; find out what other developments he has on the go and how they are doing. If you have a good relationship with your bank manager maybe see if he knows anything about the builder (who knows, maybe the builder owes the bank you are using and they're putting pressure on him).

Information is power here, and the EA has more info about you (you love the place and can buy) than you do about the builder.

gamer

Wait 2 weeks and get your solicitor to make an offer of 300 , 310 .IF theres lots of unsold houses on the estate you have a better chance.BUT you will have to pay a bit more 4 a showhouse, it depends on the builders financial state.WITH namma being set up,i think many buiders will wait and see can they get a better dea from namma.ITS prby worth 10 grand more than a standard house on the estate.

bobbiw

SkepticOne wrote: »

But the popular view that prices were going to continue to rise was there for at least five or six years before the market turned. Likewise the popular view currently that prices are going to continue to fall may also exist for five or six years.

There's still a lot of denial about and this is reflected in the low numbers of houses coming on to the market at present. Inventory is high not because of large numbers of people selling but because of the almost complete absence of buyers at present. We have not yet had a capitulation with investors dumping their properties en masse onto the market.

After this capitulation occurs then it will be the time to buy even though it will still be the popular opinion that prices will continue to fall.

Prices will continue to fall for a long time. I really worry about ireland, its built on a house of cards, more people on this board were not working in the 80s.

That was not the time of a recession, that was the base line irish economy, it wasnt a resession, Ireland has never truely been in a recession until now. But it could just be the way the economy is going to be.

stepbar

ixus wrote: »

I'd add to this; find out what other developments he has on the go and how they are doing. If you have a good relationship with your bank manager maybe see if he knows anything about the builder (who knows, maybe the builder owes the bank you are using and they're putting pressure on him).

Information is power here, and the EA has more info about you (you love the place and can buy) than you do about the builder.

If the bank manager says one iota he/she's in bother due to Data protection laws. Not good advice TBH.