Do you still think of the War?

Mr.Lizard

World War II specifically and furthermore in relation to Germany and German people. I have to admit I cannot disassociate myself from thinking about the actions of Nazi Germany whenever I think of Germany or German people.

Now I've been to their country several times and it's a lovely place with some of the nicest, friendliest people you could care to meet, yet still whenever I'm dealing with a German there is like a rush of automatic wariness that passes over me that I have to quickly tell myself to ignore and just treat them like everyone else (which in fairness I do).

This reaction does puzzle me at times. Like 90% of Germans themselves I wasn't even alive during WWII so I've no specific reason to be anti-German. Actually correct that, not 'anti German' as I'm not anti-German. It's just a strange uncontrolable and unwarrented bad vibe I get off the bat.

My family even knew some Germans (living in ireland) when I was a kid so I can always remember the feeling being there in me. Sometimes I suspect as tho it has been programmed into me by society and the media in general and to this day I can't shake the warey feeling I get whenever I talk to a German.

So does anyone else feel this way or am I just mad?

(Ich liebe Deutchland usw!!)

Mr Benevolent

No. It ended 64 years ago. Germans are in general pleasant and funny people, they have the best country in Europe and I have no problem with them. We'd be in the sh!t without them.

liah

I love Germans, I think they're great people, and have a fair few mates who are German.

Never got a bad vibe off them. The majority of them are incredibly anti-Nazi anyway, and get incredibly offended if you even bring it up.

They're just normal people.

whodoo

maybe your mistaking your interest for 'bad vibes'. germany and its history is obviously on your mind. read up on german history and discuss it with some germans. maybe you're just interested in knowing about that period of history and its social effects.
i could be wrong though....;)

robinph

Confab wrote: »

Germans are in general ... funny people,

Really, that's not what the stereotypes would have us believe.

liah

robinph wrote: »

Really, that's not what the stereotypes would have us believe.

'Cuz, you know, all stereotypes are totally true.

Most of the German people I know have a great, playful sense of humour.

AnonoBoy

War? What war?

I remember The Emergency alright - a terrible shortage of jaysusing tea and butter - but I don't recall no war sonny boy.

johnny_knoxvile

Well i still think of the Japanese as Kamakazai bombers...

Why do you never see Japanese taxi drivers?

shenanigans1982

I associate the unfunny stereotype with them more than the war....Hitler was Austrian after all.

Wonder if the Jews will still hold it against them in 740 years time.

CreepingDeath

liah wrote: »

'Cuz, you know, all stereotypes are totally true.

Most of the German people I know have a great, playful sense of humour.

That's what they want you to believe !

Lull you into a false sense of security, then blitzkrieg your ass !

Snowie

I've a long line or family members who where killed in ww2 familly members i could of quite possibly meet majority of them where in the dessert rats situated in Egypt, In respects the soilder's have a job to do weather there on the good side, or other good side, Does my family blame the german who shot them, no its war(black hawk down )...

but i dont blame the guy who killed them because hes under order's and the way i look at things is its eather him or the other person holding the gun, I dont blame all germans for nazi because not all of them where, some of them yes but other didnt realise that hitler planned on killing mas genside on jews poolish and many other relgions and nations so I dont really blame them all that much i do blame the people who where in power except for that dude who tried to blow up hitler....

germans are good people my perent b&b have 8 of them staying ...

omyatari

not really, its been over for a good while now, and they can stop playing 2 docu's a day about it aswell!!!
respect for all those involved and survived, but...
hitler was bad, ss was brutal, we get it.

Fratton Fred

liah wrote: »

'Cuz, you know, all stereotypes are totally true.

Most of the German people I know have a great, playful sense of humour.

I have never met a German I didn't like. I find their sense of humour to be brilliant and lets face it, they spend most of September and October drinking beer in big tents, served by women with big jugs:D what's to dislike

Captain-America

Among the nicest people I've met. I always hear people stereotyping them as Nazis or lacking in sense of humour, but they're actually great people. Far better than the Irish. And hugely important in Europe.

BaZmO*

The reason why you still associate modern day Germans with the Nazi's is because of the obsession English TV & Filmakers seem to have with the War. Look at the Discovery Channel any day and you'll see at least one Documentary about the War.


And for the record, Germany is a great country and the people are pretty cool. Not like the stereotype at all.

11811

How do you feel about Sweden or Norway? - Those Vikings were terrible bastards...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfnYMZ46sQ4

Also, check out this Cherman raver dude who goes by the name Technoviking. Probably the only person who'd be able to beat Chuck Norris....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-ig2l83Fag

Smart Bug

Whatever you do, don't mention the war!

Sephiroth_dude

I was in germany almost 2yrs ago now and I found them really friendly and nice.Was thinking of going there again this summer actually.

roryok

I remember on my first day on a student exchange in germany and the guy i was staying with says lets play a board game (they're mad for them in Grermany).
Okay, says i as he whips out Axis & allies, he then demands to be allowed to play as the axis!
Cue me looking for an escape route.
Turned out very well though, especially as i crushed his army anyway!

His grandad was in WWII however, but he seemed a nice enough chap and would have been very young at the time so unliklely to hav ebeen making any of the big decisions. Nothing to hold against him

Fratton Fred

BaZmO* wrote: »

The reason why you still associate modern day Germans with the Nazi's is because of the obsession English TV & Filmakers seem to have with the War. Look at the Discovery Channel any day and you'll see at least one Documentary about the War.


And for the record, Germany is a great country and the people are pretty cool. Not like the stereotype at all.

in fairness, WWII was pretty important and is one of the earliest historical events with decent TV footage.

Acacia

Yeah, most Germans I've met are lovely. They have told me that they get the whole guilt thing drilled into them in school, though. Apparently most of their history courses are about the Third Reich, the Holocaust, etc. I can see why they feel the need to educate the younger generation about it, but, still, being constantly made to feel sorry for your grandparents' mistakes must be horrible ...kind of like English people here I suppose, getting crap about the 800 years and such.

AnonoBoy

11811 wrote: »

How do you feel about Sweden or Norway? - Those Vikings were terrible bastards...

Jaysusing hot women though so we'll forgive all that a rapin' and a pillagin' they did back in the day.

ejmaztec

shenanigans1982 wrote: »

I associate the unfunny stereotype with them more than the war....Hitler was Austrian after all.

Wonder if the Jews will still hold it against them in 740 years time.

I think that they'll keep the "shoah" on the road for longer than that.

A lot of people will insist on seeing the modern Germans in the same light as the Nazis, in much the same way, for example, as some people here think that Britain hasn't changed in a 100 years.

javaboy

Please see Acacia's sig for why everyone should love Germany.

Earthhorse

I can't say I do OP but I get what you mean. Such is the amount of culture that references the war, the association of Germans with the war is pretty inescapably drilled into us.

BaZmO* wrote: »

The reason why you still associate modern day Germans with the Nazi's is because of the obsession English TV & Filmakers seem to have with the War. Look at the Discovery Channel any day and you'll see at least one Documentary about the War.

It's not just English television to be fair. America produce a huge amount of material dealing with WWII.

AnonoBoy

javaboy wrote: »

Please see Acacia's sig for why everyone should love Germany.

The Germans created the nocturnal forum?

Earthhorse

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The Germans created the nocturnal forum?

Those Germans aren't all smiles und sunshine you know.

AnonoBoy

Earthhorse wrote: »

Those Germans aren't all smiles und sunshine you know.

Not much smiley sunshine in the nocturnal forum alright.

Mind you that land of chocolate...... hmmmmmmmm!

Oh wait, I see what we're doing here.

stovelid

Lived there in the 90's for a spell, and was struck by the comparatively (to here) decent organization and even at times, the acts of individual civic responsibility that I often witnessed. I think the latter is probably the root of the automaton jibes.

Pinning past war (or any other) crimes on an entire nation - excluding the priceless joke material of course - is pretty dumb.

stovelid

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The Germans created the nocturnal forum?

They originally had the neighboring Diurnal Forum, then the mods started the Lebensraum talk, and next thing you know...

Nodin

AnonoBoy wrote: »

The Germans created the nocturnal forum?

In one night, with group decision making and profit sharing.

Terodil

I am German (28 yo) so maybe some perspective 'from the other side of the fence':

- It's quite frequent for us to be met with wariness, distrust, sometimes even open hostility when abroad. It's not unique to you, OP. There are some times when I met the opposite but for equally unpleasant reasons (while in China: 'Chi-te-le? haoren, haoren' *thumbs up* /groan). Interestingly enough, this is *mainly* valid for anglo-american countries, I haven't been treated 'as a German' (instead of 'as a person') half as often in other countries.

- I think one of the main reasons is probably that WW2 is such 'excellent' movie material. It's kept alive and alive and alive again in contemporary movies and books. I was surprised to see WW2 material take up between 1/3 and 1/2 of bookshop windowspace when I was in the UK. Mind that I'm not against historic memory, that is very important, but this is different: this is fiction based on WW2, it's commercialising the biggest catastrophe in Europe in the 20th century.

- Knowledge of post-war German history is sadly lacking both in Germany and outside. Just to give you an idea: At school, we spend about 2-3 years' worth of history classes on the 3rd Reich and WW2. Post-war history is dealt with in maybe 1/2 year at best. That is deplorable, because I believe in learning from positive examples too, not just negatives. Germany has gone a long way since 1945. It undoubtedly has one of the most modern and stable democratic constitutions (leading to: a very stable party landscape, basically keeping all extremists out of positions of power; a strict political, but impartial formation in school; a constitutional self-protection against anti-democratic change, etc.). It has also been an integral and even the driving party in many arrangements that have made the world a safer place, e.g. the EU and its predecessors, and is an accepted diplomatic facilitator in many conflicts. It also is one of the major contributors to thirld world development programmes, etc. etc. etc. Germany, these days, is very much dedicated to a safe and stable world, and that includes the fight against Nazi ideas on all levels.

I can understand and I accept that the victims of that horrible, horrible time still see 'us' as the perpetrators, even if what -- 90% of the German population today have no recollection of those times. I feel sorry for them, like anybody else would who'd learn of their misery at the hands of Nazi Germany. I don't feel responsible for it, how could I -- but I feel moved like anybody else, and I'm determined to not let anything like that happen again.

I find it very saddening to see people my own age look down on me, simply because I'm German and supposedly carry this enormous historical weight on my back. It sucks to be stigmatised for something in the past that I have absolutely no influence over, but that we have learnt extensively from, possibly even to a greater extent than many other nations. Most of these people probably don't even have a clue about what exactly happened in those times, what lead up to these events, or what could have been done to prevent them, they just have a punching bag.

P.S. Sorry for the absence of humour in this post; I have spent my supply for this month yesterday when I told a joke to my friend.

IIMII

Acacia wrote: »

still, being constantly made to feel sorry for your grandparents' mistakes must be horrible

I agree

Acacia wrote: »

kind of like English people here I suppose, getting crap about the 800 years and such.

They still have an army here. It would help if they didn't

Goduznt Xzst

well I had forgotten about it completely, but then I watched "Die Welle" recently and realized the Germans could do it again :eek:

j/k (still, that movie had a weird moral), I've been to Germany a few times and every time I'm there I see something new that makes me say "why isn't the rest of the world already doing this?"

Fratton Fred

Terodil wrote: »

I am German (28 yo) so maybe some perspective 'from the other side of the fence':

- It's quite frequent for us to be met with wariness, distrust, sometimes even open hostility when abroad.

that's got nothing to do with the war, that is because you nick all the sunbeds

IIMII wrote: »

They still have an army here. It would help if they didn't

Have i slipped onto the Pashtun Boards site by mistake?

IIMII

Terodil wrote: »

I am German (28 yo) so maybe some perspective 'from the other side of the fence':

- It's quite frequent for us to be met with wariness, distrust, sometimes even open hostility when abroad. It's not unique to you, OP. There are some times when I met the opposite but for equally unpleasant reasons (while in China: 'Chi-te-le? haoren, haoren' *thumbs up* /groan). Interestingly enough, this is *mainly* valid for anglo-american countries, I haven't been treated 'as a German' (instead of 'as a person') half as often in other countries.

- I think one of the main reasons is probably that WW2 is such 'excellent' movie material. It's kept alive and alive and alive again in contemporary movies and books. I was surprised to see WW2 material take up between 1/3 and 1/2 of bookshop windowspace when I was in the UK. Mind that I'm not against historic memory, that is very important, but this is different: this is fiction based on WW2, it's commercialising the biggest catastrophe in Europe in the 20th century.

- Knowledge of post-war German history is sadly lacking both in Germany and outside. Just to give you an idea: At school, we spend about 2-3 years' worth of history classes on the 3rd Reich and WW2. Post-war history is dealt with in maybe 1/2 year at best. That is deplorable, because I believe in learning from positive examples too, not just negatives. Germany has gone a long way since 1945. It undoubtedly has one of the most modern and stable democratic constitutions (leading to: a very stable party landscape, basically keeping all extremists out of positions of power; a strict political, but impartial formation in school; a constitutional self-protection against anti-democratic change, etc.). It has also been an integral and even the driving party in many arrangements that have made the world a safer place, e.g. the EU and its predecessors, and is an accepted diplomatic facilitator in many conflicts. It also is one of the major contributors to thirld world development programmes, etc. etc. etc. Germany, these days, is very much dedicated to a safe and stable world, and that includes the fight against Nazi ideas on all levels.

I can understand and I accept that the victims of that horrible, horrible time still see 'us' as the perpetrators, even if what -- 90% of the German population today have no recollection of those times. I feel sorry for them, like anybody else would who'd learn of their misery at the hands of Nazi Germany. I don't feel responsible for it, how could I -- but I feel moved like anybody else, and I'm determined to not let anything like that happen again.

I find it very saddening to see people my own age look down on me, simply because I'm German and supposedly carry this enormous historical weight on my back. It sucks to be stigmatised for something in the past that I have absolutely no influence over, but that we have learnt extensively from, possibly even to a greater extent than many other nations. Most of these people probably don't even have a clue about what exactly happened in those times, what lead up to these events, or what could have been done to prevent them, they just have a punching bag.

P.S. Sorry for the absence of humour in this post; I have spent my supply for this month yesterday when I told a joke to my friend.

Studying the causes of fascism would be far better, and the evolution of anti-semitism over millenia

I think the English speaking world likes to overlook Germany's lead role in creating modern Europe, where that nation has done more to promote a European identity than some of the so-called heroes of the second world war. Don't worry about it OP - it suits certain countries to keep it going

Acacia

IIMII wrote: »

They still have an army here. It would help if they didn't

They have an army in Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK.;)

In any case, what I mean is individual English people shouldn't be made to feel guilty over events which they had no control over, just like present-day Germans can't be held responsible for the Holocaust.

IIMII

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Have i slipped onto the Pashtun Boards site by mistake?

Slip into anything that's comfortable

speedboatchase

Do Germans play WW2 videogames? Not sure how I'd feel shooting my digital ancestors in the face repeatedly

Fratton Fred

IIMII wrote: »

- it suits certain countries to keep it going

ironing anyone?

IIMII

Acacia wrote: »

They have an army in Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK.;)

Get ye. Bit like Poland was part of Germany

Faith

I'm quite fond of Germans, I have to say. Of the couple I know, they're very warm and funny and welcoming and kind. In fact, I'd happily spend all my time with one of them!

IIMII

speedboatchase wrote: »

Do Germans play WW2 videogames? Not sure how I'd feel shooting my digital ancestors in the face repeatedly

Yeah, I've often wondered how that must feel playing the likes of call of duty etc.

Acacia

IIMII wrote: »

Get ye. Bit like Poland was part of Germany

Ye know, I would actually like NI to be part of Ireland...but without going down that road, my point was English people today aren't responsible for the stuff their ancestors did.

Even today, I doubt many English people care about NI or want it to be part of the UK.

So making them feel guilty over it is pointless, imo.

Just like making German people feel guilty about Nazis is pointless.

Earthhorse

*readies self to invoke Godwin's Law*

BaZmO*

Fratton Fred wrote: »

in fairness, WWII was pretty important and is one of the earliest historical events with decent TV footage.

Oh I agree totally. Any relatively modern event where almost 50 million people die is certainly important and will always receive a lot of continued media attention. But I sometimes think that it's quite excessive.

And I think the TV footage is a very valid point also. That and the fact that it's such a base story in that it's as polarised as you can get, i.e. Good -v- Evil

Earthhorse wrote: »

It's not just English television to be fair. America produce a huge amount of material dealing with WWII.

Very true, but I just mentioned England because that's where we get a large chunk of our media from. And as far as coverage goes we are just as guilty tbf, Saturday evening seems to be WW2 TV on RTE with the amount of War Documentaries they show.


Terodil might be able to answer this.
With regards to the inherited guilt a lot of the younger generation of Germans seemed to have to have been lumbered with, didn't holding the 2006 World Cup go a long way to lifting a lot of that guilt, in that the younger generation seen it as a way to break from history and show a new younger vibrant Germany breaking free from the baggage of the past?
Spoke to quite a few Germans around the time and that seemed to be the consensus.

IIMII

IIMII wrote: »

Studying the causes of fascism would be far better, and the evolution of anti-semitism over millenia

And anti-gypsy-ism

Capt'n Midnight

shenanigans1982 wrote:

Wonder if the Jews will still hold it against them in 740 years time.

It will be 840 years on Friday.

Terodil

- Games that show the emblems of Hitler Germany are not allowed.
- Games that allow the player to change the course of world history to the benefit of Nazi Germany are outlawed. (I specifically remember one game being outlawed for this).

And I don't have problems with playing Commandos and the likes. Pixel heaps and all

Earthhorse

BaZmO* wrote: »

Very true, but I just mentioned England because that's where we get a large chunk of our media from. And as far as coverage goes we are just as guilty tbf, Saturday evening seems to be WW2 TV on RTE with the amount of War Documentaries they show.

BaZmO* wrote: »

But I sometimes think that it's quite excessive.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree it's excessive. To my mind anyway. But it's understandable why it's the case. And why the OP has that association as a result.