The defiant poets society

vinchick

I know this is a bit serious but I was wondering if anybody else had read this and what do they think if they had?

Its breaks my heart

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article6149248.ece

cuckoo

I don't understand how some countries end up one way, and others a different way.

Tupins

God, I just read through that whole thing. It's just horrific. It really makes me sick to even think about it.

It's so sad.

missmatty

Read that in the Times Magazine yesterday, we don't know how lucky we are really, compared to those women.

I really wish there was something we could do for them instead of sitting here helplessly :mad::mad:

bambera

Have you ever read A Thousand Splendid Suns by Khaled Hosseini?

It's a novel about two women living before and during the Taliban Rule and how there lives as women are affected by this.

It's a really great read.

allabouteve

International focus on the Taliban has moved to Pakistan where many rural areas are under their rule.

Womens lives are now being ruined in a greater area by the Taliban than ever before.

vinchick

I supoose the best thing that can be done is tell people about what is happening. It doesnt seem to be mentioned on the news or other media (apart from this article of course)

Black Swan

Living hell!

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Fox McCloud

These people seem to really really hate women..
Whats strange about Afghanistan is how close they seemed to progress and equality in the 70's.

vinchick

Fox McCloud wrote: »

These people seem to really really hate women..
Whats strange about Afghanistan is how close they seemed to progress and equality in the 70's.

Do they hate women or are they afraid, it's or what I've always wondered.

Some way to cover and control their insecurities.

Or is it just religion?

ascanbe

Scien wrote: »

[HTML]Islam[/HTML].

Not Islam itself but those currently exploiting it for their own ends; as has been done with just about any religion you could name.
The U.S. are currently fighting against the Taliban. These are the very people that took over in the country after the U.S. had funded them to bring down the 'left leaning' People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan.
The PDPA made women's rights a central part of their agenda, concentrating on education and encouraging women to participate in politics.
This is one of many reasons why Afghanistan is as it is today.

vinchick

ascanbe wrote: »

Not Islam itself but those currently exploiting it for their own ends; as has been done with just about any religion you could name.
The U.S. are currently fighting against the Taliban. These are the very people that took over in the country after the U.S. had funded them to bring down the 'left leaning' People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan.
The PDPA made women's rights a central part of their agenda, concentrating on education and encouraging women to participate in politics.
This is one of many reasons why Afghanistan is as it is today.

In this case however it is not any religion it is Islam and the Taliban are basing their practices through it.

Don't get me wrong I know there are many people of the faith who are disgusted at what is going on (including most of the poor women mentioned in the article) but to say it has nothing to do with Islam is also wrong. The taliban had to come from somewhere.

What is important is asking what is and can be done to protect these women? The taliban arent in control now yet a law legalising martial rape was passed not to mention all the stuff happening as stated in the article.

With more history like this and the plight of many women coming to light more it looks as if Islam and womens rights are not compatable in these countries. Something will have to give and I know which one I'd prefer.

GirlInterrupted

vinchick wrote: »

In this case however it is not any religion it is Islam and the Taliban are basing their practices through it.

Don't get me wrong I know there are many people of the faith who are disgusted at what is going on (including most of the poor women mentioned in the article) but to say it has nothing to do with Islam is also wrong. The taliban had to come from somewhere.

What is important is asking what is and can be done to protect these women? The taliban arent in control now yet a law legalising martial rape was passed not to mention all the stuff happening as stated in the article.

With more history like this and the plight of many women coming to light more it looks as if Islam and womens rights are not compatable in these countries. Something will have to give and I know which one I'd prefer.

Those are strong opinions and on the whole I'd agree.

The 'Issue' that I believe to be the root cause, is the many different interpretations of Islamic law and religious texts.

If a single authority had a single 'party line' there would be less room for the fanatics and mysoginists amongst them to bend the interpretation to their own ends.

I've no doubt that the majority of Muslims are peaceful and fair people, but I find a religion that seems to oppress its women to some extent (and most religions do), at either end of the spectrum, incompatible with my own ideas of freedom of expression, personal liberty, and personal worth.

brianthebard

vinchick wrote: »

In this case however it is not any religion it is Islam and the Taliban are basing their practices through it.

Don't get me wrong I know there are many people of the faith who are disgusted at what is going on (including most of the poor women mentioned in the article) but to say it has nothing to do with Islam is also wrong. The taliban had to come from somewhere.

Yes the taliban had to come from somewhere, but is Islam really the radicalising force here, or was it perhaps the catastrophic proxy war the soviets and americans fought in afghanistan in the 80s which tore the country apart? Or the history of oppression and colonisation in the region which made people seek refuge in their faith, some of those people looking for a message of hatred? I'm not excusing the taliban, but regimes like this do not simply spring out of nowhere.

GirlInterrupted

brianthebard wrote: »

Yes the taliban had to come from somewhere, but is Islam really the radicalising force here, or was it perhaps the catastrophic proxy war the soviets and americans fought in afghanistan in the 80s which tore the country apart? Or the history of oppression and colonisation in the region which made people seek refuge in their faith, some of those people looking for a message of hatred? I'm not excusing the taliban, but regimes like this do not simply spring out of nowhere.

They don't spring out of nowhere, and the refugee camps of Pakistan were the ideal recruiting grounds for those with extremist agenda's.

But there's also the problem of the many differing sects that use very literal translations of the Qu'ran. The Salafi theology of the Saudi's which strictly adhere's to Islamic law gives rise to conditions that make life at best restrictive to women, and at worst hellish.

So I guess the answer as to where extremism comes from, is either or both or any combination. The only common thread seems to be Islam itself.

brianthebard

Yes but my point was that if those refugee camps weren't there, then would the extremist agenda be so easily spread? Unlikely I feel. I don't agree with the Saudi version of how life for women should be, but at the same time there are cultural, social, historical and political reasons for why Islam became what it is and I'm not familiar enough with all of that to understand why women can be treated in that way through Islam, so I feel restricted in how I can comment.

Red Hand

The only way to get rid of such oppression is to get rid of certain religions, where dichotomies are the order of the day...and from such dichotomies, you get the oppressers and the oppressed.

The only way to get rid of such religions is to "innoculise" people (most of whom seem to need faith and religion) with a benign practice/religion.

Black Swan

Wahhabi Islam is not a small splinter group of Islam like the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but rather a major branch of Islam with millions of believers that controls Mecca and Medina, the two major locations of pilgrimage for the Islamic faith. The Wahhabi's courts in Saudi Arabia adjudicate and administer justice for the state, including the stoning of raped women (which appeared in recent BBC news). So this is not just an isolated Islamic group that dehumanises and subjugates women to conditions similar to those found in Afghanistan. The problem is much larger and more pervasive with millions of men who believe, practice, and enforce Wahhabi and related forms of Islam in the Middle East.

vinchick

brianthebard wrote: »

Yes the taliban had to come from somewhere, but is Islam really the radicalising force here, or was it perhaps the catastrophic proxy war the soviets and americans fought in afghanistan in the 80s which tore the country apart? Or the history of oppression and colonisation in the region which made people seek refuge in their faith, some of those people looking for a message of hatred? I'm not excusing the taliban, but regimes like this do not simply spring out of nowhere.

The wars would explain why they might hate foreign influence or be suspicious of the US. It doesnt explain why they take such extreme measures against their countrywomen who had nothing to do with any war.

You are right though regiemes like these dont spring from nowhere. They are gaining strenth again which is disasterous for women.

brianthebard wrote: »

Yes but my point was that if those refugee camps weren't there, then would the extremist agenda be so easily spread? Unlikely I feel. I don't agree with the Saudi version of how life for women should be, but at the same time there are cultural, social, historical and political reasons for why Islam became what it is and I'm not familiar enough with all of that to understand why women can be treated in that way through Islam, so I feel restricted in how I can comment.

You can comment anyway you like. You see the result and you can state if you feel its right or not.