What are the Government doing to get us out of this mess?

Daithinski

The IMFC has listed some measures that countries should be taking to improve their ecomomies. How do you think Ireland rates? I've given my rating (out of 10) on the steps listed.

If the government cannot do their job properly (which they are apparently not capable of), they should be taken out of power. For the sake of our future and the future of our kids.

I don't understand why if the opposition wants to be in power that they aren't organising protest marches at this lacklustre, incompetent government.

There is enough discontentment out there to pressure the green party to pull out of their "legal contract:rolleyes:" to stay in government.

I'm starting to think that they don't want to get in and are happy to snipe away from the other side of the Dail.

To ensure a recovery in 2010, an IMFC communique called for further action to restore the health of banks, revive lending and restart international capital flows. It urged countries to keep up fiscal stimulus and develop plans to exit from the extraordinary measures taken once recovery is established.

How does the FF / GP government rate on heeding the advice of the IMFC?

1. Restore health of banks? - 2/10 (for effort, crap as it may be)
2. Revive Lending - 1/10
3. Fiscal Stimulus - 0/10
4. Plan to exit from extra ordinary measures - 0/10

ART6

Daithinski wrote: »

The IMFC has listed some measures that countries should be taking to improve their ecomomies. How do you think Ireland rates? I've given my rating (out of 10) on the steps listed.

If the government cannot do their job properly (which they are apparently not capable of), they should be taken out of power. For the sake of our future and the future of our kids.

I don't understand why if the opposition wants to be in power that they aren't organising protest marches at this lacklustre, incompetent government.

There is enough discontentment out there to pressure the green party to pull out of their "legal contract:rolleyes:" to stay in government.

I'm starting to think that they don't want to get in and are happy to snipe away from the other side of the Dail.





How does the FF / GP government rate on heeding the advice of the IMFC?

1. Restore health of banks? - 2/10 (for effort, crap as it may be)
2. Revive Lending - 1/10
3. Fiscal Stimulus - 0/10
4. Plan to exit from extra ordinary measures - 0/10

The government can't restore the health of the banks. The depth of debt and write offs in the main banks is many times the Irish GNP and can't be afforded. It can't revive lending without restoring the banks health, so that's out too. It can't provide a fiscal stimulus when it already is unable to pay it's way by any recognised measure and is utterly unable to reign in public sector spending. And when did you ever hear of any government that ever exited from "extraordinary measures"? Once the people have become used to them, they stay.:(

It's been said before, but maybe the answer is to take the money that was available to bail out the banks and spend it setting up a new clean bank with no bad debts and a strong balance sheet. Hire the best (and uncontaminated) international financial brains to run it at whatever cost in salaries, and let the existing banks and their management either sort themselves out or go bust. When they do the latter, let the new good bank buy their assets from the Official Receiver for peanuts.

Schuhart

ART6 wrote: »

The depth of debt and write offs in the main banks is many times the Irish GNP and can't be afforded.

I think you're right that the level of debt to be written off is considerable, but I'm not confident its a multiple of GNP. I mean, the property loans seem to amount to €90 billion. Not all of that will default and not all will be irrecoverable. If we take a ballpark figure of 50% losses, that's still considerable - only a little less than what the Government will be spending on current services this year. But its not a multiple of GNP.

That said, I think your core point is correct. We simply don't have the resources, so there is no solution apart from constraining consumption. Put simply, we'll collectively be working much the same for next few years for less moolah.

The only alternatives I can suggest is to legalise gambling, prostitution and drugs and to tax the proceeds. If someone has a better idea for earning more money quickly, feel free to share it.

Fluffybums

Schuhart wrote: »

That said, I think your core point is correct. We simply don't have the resources, so there is no solution apart from constraining consumption. Put simply, we'll collectively be working much the same for next few years for less moolah.

Except for the TDs and ministers I suspect. If they need a boost they can removed from/given a ministerial/junior ministerial position or committee.

Daithinski

Ireland will go down in history as one of the first countries to tackle the global recession and recognise the scale of the crisis, the Taoiseach said today

Somehow, I suspect that we will be going down in history for different reasons.

Such as...

1. Most indebted nation in the world.
2. First country to be kicked out of the EU.
3. Biggest contraction in Economy.
4. Crappest government ever.

yoshytoshy

Irish politics ,having a leading party for so long come to afore.
I personally find it depressing that people aren't trying to work things out for themselves. It's the finger pointing and responsibility issues that got us where we are now.

If voters don't know whats best for their country ,what the hell are they voting for ?

Sorry for being a pessimist ,but we're all human.

ART6

Schuhart wrote: »

I think you're right that the level of debt to be written off is considerable, but I'm not confident its a multiple of GNP. I mean, the property loans seem to amount to €90 billion. Not all of that will default and not all will be irrecoverable. If we take a ballpark figure of 50% losses, that's still considerable - only a little less than what the Government will be spending on current services this year. But its not a multiple of GNP.

That said, I think your core point is correct. We simply don't have the resources, so there is no solution apart from constraining consumption. Put simply, we'll collectively be working much the same for next few years for less moolah.

The only alternatives I can suggest is to legalise gambling, prostitution and drugs and to tax the proceeds. If someone has a better idea for earning more money quickly, feel free to share it.

The problem is that no-one seems to know just what the level of bank debt is or is likely to be, because no-one can say which loans made by the banks are going to default. All that can be done is to examine their loan books and make a crude attempt to revalue the assets against which the loans were made, and then compare those values with the loans. I suspect that then we would discover that the potential level of indebtedness is several times the Irish GNP, particularly when the overseas lending is taken into account.

I don't believe that the injections of money made so far will have any significant effect either. After all, the international financial industry turns over more money than the Irish GNP every hour, and our banks are deep into that.

hallelujajordan

yoshytoshy wrote: »

Irish politics ,having a leading party for so long come to afore.
I personally find it depressing that people aren't trying to work things out for themselves. It's the finger pointing and responsibility issues that got us where we are now.

If voters don't know whats best for their country ,what the hell are they voting for ?

Sorry for being a pessimist ,but we're all human.

Totally agree . . so much arguing and finger-pointing on these boards its almost becoming a reflection of Dail Eireann . . Everyone saying how terrible the government is without anyone making any effort to provide real and effective alternative solutions . . .

Daithinski wrote:

How does the FF / GP government rate on heeding the advice of the IMFC?

1. Restore health of banks? - 2/10 (for effort, crap as it may be)
2. Revive Lending - 1/10
3. Fiscal Stimulus - 0/10
4. Plan to exit from extra ordinary measures - 0/10

If you think you are qualified to rate their efforts then you need to provide some alternative suggestions. . What would you do tomorrow if you were Lenihan / Cowen to achieve 1-4 ? ?

Daithinski

hallelujajordan wrote: »

If you think you are qualified to rate their efforts then you need to provide some alternative suggestions. . What would you do tomorrow if you were Lenihan / Cowen to achieve 1-4 ? ?

What I would do is, accept I am not up to the job, and hand over to someone that is.

Not that Krusty the Cowen and Sideshow Lenihan would be willing to do this.

yoshytoshy

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Totally agree . . so much arguing and finger-pointing on these boards its almost becoming a reflection of Dail Eireann . .

I wasn't really pointing out people using this site ,it's more the attitude of people in general. I find peoples thoughts here on topics really interesting and helpful to be honest.

hallelujajordan

Daithinski wrote: »

What I would do is, accept I am not up to the job, and hand over to someone that is.

Not that Krusty the Cowen and Sideshow Lenihan would be willing to do this.

Who should they hand it over to and what should the incumbent do to rate more highly on your scale ? ?

Raiser

Daithinski wrote: »

What are the Government doing to get us out of this mess?

In politics the greater the mess simply means a more pressing need to appear to be doing something while making sure that you are denying all responsibility and ultimately accepting none of the blame.

- So things are going pretty much by the textbook here......

maninasia

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Totally agree . . so much arguing and finger-pointing on these boards its almost becoming a reflection of Dail Eireann . . Everyone saying how terrible the government is without anyone making any effort to provide real and effective alternative solutions . . .



If you think you are qualified to rate their efforts then you need to provide some alternative suggestions. . What would you do tomorrow if you were Lenihan / Cowen to achieve 1-4 ? ?

I would resign and let the country have a proper debate about it's future!

Daithinski

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Who should they hand it over to and what should the incumbent do to rate more highly on your scale ? ?

I have to ask, are you suggesting in a round about way that you are happy to have FF in power?