New Chain - Grinding Noise

Rusty Cogs 08

OK, so after the fun watching the wheel turn the pedals I decided to try and figure out why there was an awful grinding (metal on metal) sound coming from my single speed since I fitted a new chain at the weekend. I thought that mayble I'd dried out the hub with too much degreaser so I removed the new chain and fitted the old one but as it happens, it's the new chain making all the noise.

It's a SRAM I bought in Cycleways at the weekend, I just asked for a chain for a single speed. Is it possible I should have specified the ratio (which I didn't actually know) and I have an ill fitting chain ? I had to remove a few links anyway. I remember buying a new chain for my road bike a while back and the guy said that I'd have to change the cassette as both it and the cassette had worn together and a new chain on a worn cassette wouldn't marry so to speak. Could that be it ?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

Did you oil it?

My last chain (an SRAM single speed /edit: Model was PC1 with Nickel finish) came dry. Bitta lube sorted it right out.

Wez

Some lube will help, but it could be extra tension on your chain? The chain/ring alignment? I've got a similar problem and I'm replacing any part I think is the problem..

Get behind your bike, and put your eye inline with the chain, looking straight down it's length, you should be able to see if it's straight or not. If it's even slightly off, it'll make alot of noise!

Could also be the mixture of old + new chain and cogs, would make sense that it's only the new chain. That means replacing your rear cog and maybe front chainring (usually more labour intensive).

Good luck!

Chips Lovell

Are you sure you haven't mated a 3/32 chain with a 1/8 cog?

Rusty Cogs 08

That's what I'm wondering. Are there different kinds of single speed chain ? You'll have to explain 3/32 and 1/8 to me though ?

Wez

Yeh, meant to add, there's the two chain's as Mario said.. A 1/8 will fit 1/32 rings etc, and maybe have some slack/play, the otherway around is pretty impossible, although I've never tried it because it's not a good idea if it can be avoided.

Considering ya asked for a single speed chain, you may have gotten a 1/8th. See if ya can compare it to a chain on a geared bike or your old chain. If it is, the 1/8 is a bit wider. Could be your problem.. Is it sitting properly onto your teeth on the cogs?

I know my chain is rubbing slightly off the front chainring, making noise. This is my chainline being slightly off, the chain's not sitting on perfectly straight causing friction.

Rusty Cogs 08

So is the difference in those two chains their width ?

Chips Lovell

Rusty Cogs 08 wrote: »

So is the difference in those two chains their width ?

Yes.

blorg

Wez wrote: »

Yeh, meant to add, there's the two chain's as Mario said.. A 1/8 will fit 1/32 rings etc, and maybe have some slack/play, the otherway around is pretty impossible, although I've never tried it because it's not a good idea if it can be avoided.

The other way around (3/32 chain on 1/8 cogs) is entirely impossible, you will not even seat the chain- I know this from trying a 3/32 chainwhip on a 1/8 cog.

rottenhat

I have had issues with noise from brand new chains in the past and the chainline on my fixie is pretty much bang on. I generally assume it's because the chainring, cog and chain all come from different manufacturers. It diminishes over time as the chain wears in, and there's no wear visible on the cog (it's a Surly cog - definitely recommended for long wear life), so I just live with it.

Just to clarify on the chain width issue, it's 3/32 and 1/8 (= 4/32) of an inch. 3/32 is the standard width for all uses apart from fixed/track where 1/8 is more traditional - a 1/8" width chain is usually quite noticeably wider but looking at your bike side by side with a regular road bike will make it obvious.

kona

whats your chain tension like?? is it loose or so tight that you cannot move the chain up or down by hand??

The difference in the two different sizes of chains are quite obvious, you said the chain was a sram pc1?? thats a SS chain. On sram chains and cassettes the number immediatley after the letters indicates what gear system the product is for eg pc-971 is a performance 9 speed chain, pc-871 is a performance 8 speed chain. The numbers after such as 71 is the quality of the chain, so i think it starts at recreation and goes up to full on race.

Deisetrek

yeah , OP it's a good idea to change your cassette when you change your chain , same thing happened to me 2 weeks ago , simple chain change turned into a nightmare . Sram 8 speed chain on a cassette(PG850 sram) I had only purchased in October , jumped , grinding noise . Replaced suspect cable , changed dérailleur and even bought a second chain 'cause I suspected I had a faulty one . Last resort bought a new cassette cause I had run out of ideas ....hey presto perfect , so I intend to change them as a pair in the future . New chain on old cassette a no no I reckon....

jollylee

Are there a lot of miles on the rear cog? The chances are its worn and your old chain would have worn equally so would match perfectly - no noise. Now that you've fit a new chain thats not worn at all its not fitting onto your worn cog as it should and your getting noise.

You've too choices, put up with the noise and wait until the chain wears in to match the cog or else just buy a new rear cog.... I think :).

Rusty Cogs 08

Well I gave the old chain a good clean so I'll run that for a while longer. Don't mind changing the cog if I thought that would fix it but I don't want to find it makes no difference and then go changing the chainring too (in the hope that that works...).

As mentioned in the OP, this is a single speed, not a new chain running on an old cassette.

What would be the best practice regarding this scenario ? It seems a little wasteful to have to replace your rear cog / cassette & chainring(s) everytime you change your chain. What if you changed your chain every year ? Would it make any difference ?

TinyExplosions

Deisetrek wrote: »

New chain on old cassette a no no I reckon....

Not to be pedantic or anything, but I'm currently running a cassette with about 1500km on it with a brand new groupset, and everything's fine for me.... could just be SRAM being all great though

blorg

You don't need to change cassettes with every chain change- if you change your chain on time. Less likely to be necessary on a singlespeed, I think the sprockets are tougher.

How long depends primarily on the environment you cycle in and how well you maintain the chain (e.g. clean and lube it.) Riding style does not matter.

Best way to know when you need to change is to measure your chain, and replace it before it starts doing damage to your cassette/sprocket. You can do this with a standard ruler (down a bit) - or you can buy a device that drops into the chain for a fiver or so.

Rule of thumb would be around 3 or 4 chains before you need to change your cassette, anything from 1,500-5,000km between chain changes.

kona

blorg wrote: »

Rule of thumb would be around 3 or 4 chains before you need to change your cassette, anything from 1,500-5,000km between chain changes.

Ususally you are good with advice but, I have to say thats just terrible advice sorry:(
Id be more of the opinion that while yes you can get away with just replacing the chain and not the cassette, the quality of the parts has alot to do with it too.
The max IMO is 2 chains for every 1 cassette, and thats pushing it, its worked for me sometimes but not other times, and thats in a workshop enviroment, not a home DIY, you may do 3 of these repairs a week.
The best advice is just replace the two together.

If you are cycling somthing on the level of deore or maybe a sram pg 7/8/9-51 and above you will get away with 2:1.
As regards to SS or fixed , considering that the freewheel(not cassette) is worked more than a geared cassette, and so would wear more, I would without a doubt say replace both regardless of quality.

blorg

@kona- this is my experience with road chains well maintained, measured and replaced early before the chain starts damaging the cassette. It has nothing to do with workshop vs. home environment, it is how the chain was used in the intervening period, whether it was cleaned/lubed regularly, and whether you change it in time. If you get a bike in that has never had its chain cleaned, full of muck and the chain has been left to 'stretch' beyond 1/8", sure you need to change the cassette.

I buy my chains in three packs, I certainly don't do that with my cassettes!

As I say, this is road, might be different with MTB, after all naturally you will get more crap into the chain off-road.

kona

blorg wrote: »

@kona- this is my experience with road chains well maintained, measured and replaced early before the chain starts damaging the cassette. It has nothing to do with workshop vs. home environment, it is how the chain was used in the intervening period, whether it was cleaned/lubed regularly, and whether you change it in time. If you get a bike in that has never had its chain cleaned, full of muck and the chain has been left to 'stretch' beyond 1/8", sure you need to change the cassette.

I buy my chains in three packs, I certainly don't do that with my cassettes!

As I say, this is road, might be different with MTB, after all naturally you will get more crap into the chain off-road.

Yes you are right about the maintenance 100% it will allow you to get more out of the cassette without a doubt, but i think it will still only just give you 2:1.
I think workshop V a DIY enviroment has alot to do with it, I could possibly replace more chains and cassettes in a week than a DIY may do in a year. From 4 years of this, 2:1 is what id use on my own bikes, but for a customer where the work needs to be guaranteed, the advice is change cassette and chain together unless explicity told by the customer just to do the chain, in which case a note will be left with the bike explaining that the gears may start jumping or making noises sooner than expected.
Its also a good way to destroy a new chain.

1,500 - 5,000 KMS is a fairly big range as is 3 or 4 chains to a cassette. On average what would you get out of 1 chain? My chain ive gotten a year out of, one of the lads in the shop gets 3months and he wouldnt do 4 times my mileage.

If you personally get away with those figures than its great, but not all people do even come close to that. Im just pointing out that these figures would be a fairly noteable exception to the norm.:)

rottenhat

blorg wrote: »

You don't need to change cassettes with every chain change- if you change your chain on time. Less likely to be necessary on a singlespeed, I think the sprockets are tougher.

You have to balance against that the fact that the wear is all on a single cog, not spread over a full cassette, but certainly a decent 1/8" cog is going to take wear better than an individual toothpick-thin cog in a 10/11 speed cassette.

I'd expect to get through 3-4 chains before needing to replace a cassette, on the third on my current fixed cog and as I say, little sign of wear on it.

blorg

I would be up probably over 5,000km mark for chain changes. The range is suggested as it is down to conditions/maintenance (and the chain to an extent.) Key is to measure and replace before you do damage to your cassette.

I think in a shop you will see a lot more badly maintained bikes coming in, after all if you can maintain your bike well you are less likely to bring it to a shop to have the chain changed, you will do it yourself, it is one of the easier things on a bike.

I did a bit over 13,000km last year albeit over around four bikes, changed chain I think twice on the road bike and once on the tourer. Fixie is at around 3,000km on the cheap chain that came with it. No cassette changes, and the cassette I was mostly using on that road bike is now on my new road bike. The tourer chain came with the groupset from a previous road bike and had well over 5,000km on it already, while the first road change was due to chain damage from it falling off.

I doubt most roadies on here replace cassette with every chain, cassettes are pretty expensive compared to chains.

Years ago when I had a hybrid I used not maintain it quite so meticulously, I would just dump more oil on the chain from time to time without cleaning it; when the chain on that needed replacement the cassette did too all right, or it would skip. I have never had this skipping on my road/tourer etc. despite much higher mileages.

kona

blorg wrote: »

I would be up probably over 5,000km mark for chain changes. The range is suggested as it is down to conditions/maintenance (and the chain to an extent.) Key is to measure and replace before you do damage to your cassette.

I think in a shop you will see a lot more badly maintained bikes coming in, after all if you can maintain your bike well you are less likely to bring it to a shop to have the chain changed, you will do it yourself, it is one of the easier things on a bike.

I did a bit over 13,000km last year albeit over around four bikes, changed chain I think twice on the road bike and once on the tourer. Fixie is at around 3,000km on the cheap chain that came with it. No cassette changes, and the cassette I was mostly using on that road bike is now on my new road bike. The tourer chain came with the groupset from a previous road bike and had well over 5,000km on it already, while the first road change was due to chain damage from it falling off.

I doubt most roadies on here replace cassette with every chain, cassettes are pretty expensive compared to chains.

Years ago when I had a hybrid I used not maintain it quite so meticulously, I would just dump more oil on the chain from time to time without cleaning it; when the chain on that needed replacement the cassette did too all right, or it would skip. I have never had this skipping on my road/tourer etc. despite much higher mileages.

Correct Maintenance is the key as you say.:) Unfortuantley for the misinformed lashing 3 in 1 oil on the chain as often as possible is classed as maintenace:D

I would doubt also that every roadie would replace the cassette too with every chain:D. However the majority of bikes are not as well maintained or up to the same standard as most of the bikes here, so for the interests of people who search this and take advice from it, unless you meticulously DEGREASE and REGREASE with proper bike lube and own a bike in excess of e400 the advice would be replace your chain with your cassette:)

However since we are talking about single speed there aint much else to grind on the drivetrain so my guess is its either incorrect chain tension OR the freewheel needs replacing.

A outside contender would be the wheel no being replaced straight and rubbing off a chain stay.

Deisetrek

blorg wrote: »

You don't need to change cassettes with every chain change- if you change your chain on time. Less likely to be necessary on a singlespeed, I think the sprockets are tougher.

How long depends primarily on the environment you cycle in and how well you maintain the chain (e.g. clean and lube it.) Riding style does not matter.

Best way to know when you need to change is to measure your chain, and replace it before it starts doing damage to your cassette/sprocket. You can do this with a standard ruler (down a bit) - or you can buy a device that drops into the chain for a fiver or so.

Rule of thumb would be around 3 or 4 chains before you need to change your cassette, anything from 1,500-5,000km between chain changes.

I religiously change my chain every 3000 km or so , last cassette change was about the same , thing is I also did not expect to have to change the cassette , but like I said I encountered "jumping" in the high gears almost immediately . After replacing a suspect cable , a derailleur and even trying a second new chain ( my chainrings are relatively new) , I was left with nothing else on my drivetrain but the casstette .....and for my situation this turned out to be the remedy . I should also point out that I regularly lube and maintain/monitor my chaindrive , so I will probably take up a new policy of replacing both at the same time . Perhaps as someone pointed out the Sram cassette is not as robust as a better quality Shimano one or something .