Towing trailers - legal??

vinruane

Hey guys, been reading through a few threads on the towing issue and I'm just a little confused!

First of all does anyone know the unlaaden weight of a rowing boat trailer? Its a twin axle trailer.

Secondly is the law that with a B license that you can only tow trailers of up to 750kg or is it a combination of weight of the towing vehicle and the trailer?

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information floating about!

Thanks for the info!

colm_mcm

the 750 is trailer and load combined. nothing to do with the vehicle.

Delta Kilo

If you have a B license you are permitted to tow a single axle trailer with a design gross weight of no more than 750kg.

However, I've seen cars pulling triple axle cattle trailers before, I dont think any of the trailer towing laws are enforced, unless you are taking the p*ss.

Drax

A guy in an A4 passed me on the M8 yesterday at about 140km/h towing a twin axle trailer which had another A4 sitting on it.
Two words came to mind... "fecking gobshíte".

vinruane

The reason I ask this is that I may be towing a trailer that is definitely over the 750kg and its twin axle. I'll be towing it with a jeep so just want to clear up everything, if I have to I'll take the test and get it sorted, but if I dont have to then I won't!

pred racer

dont worry about it, Ive been towing trailers since I started driving (20 yrs) with a normal licence. (in fact I didnt even know you were supposed to have a different one till I started coming on here:)) Just remember the important thing to remember about the vehicle is not whether you can tow the trailer... Just make sure you can stop it!

245

pred racer wrote: »

Just remember the important thing to remember about the vehicle is not whether you can tow the trailer... Just make sure you can stop it!

And if one of your trailer tyres blows out that you can control the resultant fishtailing - I've seen it more times than I'd care to remember - most spectacular was a Transit towing a compressor at 120 kmh on the M9. There's a speed limit when towing a trailer and its there for a reason. Even if it wasn't any knucklehead should know that there's a difference between having a very heavy weight attached to the back of your vehicle and not having etc etc etc. Unfortunately they don't.

Saab Ed

No I'll have to stand corrected on this one if Im wrong but Im 99.9% sure that if you are pulling a twin axel trailer then you need to have a 4 wheel drive vehicle. Ever notice any of the state or semi state bodies always have 4 wheel drive vehicles when pulling a trailer i.e ESB with their landrovers and 4WD Transits and Transporters and the guards with landcruisers and the like when towing boats.

Wishbone Ash

Delta Kilo wrote: »

If you have a B license you are permitted to tow a single axle trailer with a design gross weight of no more than 750kg

I've heard this several times but I've never seen anything in the relevant legislation which specifies the number of axles. The weight is the relevant bit.

Delta Kilo wrote:

However, I've seen cars pulling triple axle cattle trailers before, I dont think any of the trailer towing laws are enforced, unless you are taking the p*ss.

Those drivers may have a B+E licence which was issued automatically with a B (old category C) licence up until 1995(?).

Saab Ed wrote: »

Im 99.9% sure that if you are pulling a twin axel trailer then you need to have a 4 wheel drive vehicle

Again another 'pub tale'. There is nothing in legislation that I can find which specifies that the towing vehicle must be 4 wheel drive. Even if it were true, some very small vehicle are available in 4wd but that hardly makes them suitable.

The ESB, Gardai etc. use 4wd vehicle because they often have to go off road for access.

Wishbone Ash

245 wrote: »

There's a speed limit when towing a trailer and its there for a reason

Yup, 80kph for a trailer and, in the case of a vehicle towing another vehicle, its 65kph.

g5hn710m4xpdwy

Vinruane: Happen to be going to Schools\colleges champs or Queens with it? Just curious

AFAIK there is little enforcement unless, as previously said, our taking the piss.

Delta Kilo

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I've heard this several times but I've never seen anything in the relevant legislation which specifies the number of axles. The weight is the relevant bit.

Those drivers may have a B+E licence which was issued automatically with a B (old category C) licence up until 1995(?).

Again another 'pub tale'. There is nothing in legislation that I can find which specifies that the towing vehicle must be 4 wheel drive. Even if it were true, some very small vehicle are available in 4wd but that hardly makes them suitable.

No, I definitely remember hearing that if you are towing a trailer with more than one axle, and a gross weight of more than 750kg, you must have a 4wd jeep or a rwd van and the EB license. That is why caravan companies make a lot of single axle caravans, even though they should really have double axles.

As for the guys with the triple axle cattle trailers, I can assure you they dont even know such thing as an EB license even exists!

L-M

Fairly sure you need to 4WD for a twin-axle. I remember a lad telling me he stuck a 4 motion badge onto his Passat and he got away with it, lol.

jayok

Limerick man wrote: »

Fairly sure you need to 4WD for a twin-axle.

Urban Myth... think about it a the Ford Transit van is 2WD. Most class C trucks are 2WD, most buses are 2WD. None of these could tow twin-axle? Yet, a 1litre Suzuki Jimny 4WD can?

Seriously, there is no requirement in law that the towing of a twin-axle trailer requires a 4WD vehicle.

tin79

jayok wrote: »

Urban Myth... think about it a the Ford Transit van is 2WD. Most class C trucks are 2WD, most buses are 2WD. None of these could tow twin-axle? Yet, a 1litre Suzuki Jimny 4WD can?

Seriously, there is no requirement in law that the towing of a twin-axle trailer requires a 4WD vehicle.

i agree with that its the design weight of the trailer that matters. i have seen a couple of guys in our boat club with very small twin axel boat trailers that would weight only 400-500kg so if the 4x4 law existed it would be illegal to tow one of these with a big transit?

there is some good info on this thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055544720

brandon_flowers

Drive on! Even if you are stopped the garda is more likely to ask where your going with the boat than if your vehicle and trailer combination is legal. I have seen a Transit, a Land Cruiser and even a Passat towing 18/20ft tandem axle silage trailers. Once you are doing it safely I dont see any garda "doing" you for it.

Saab Ed

I dont think the 4WD thing is a myth. Class C 2WD trucks and the like can pull trailers because of their size but a B licence vehicle must be 4WD to pull a trailer with twin axels over 750 kg. I know a guy with a twin axel cattle trailer myself that was told by the guards not to be pulling it with an Opel Vivaro van. They told him it needed to be 4WD. And what about the horsey crowd. They all got out of their Volvo and Merc estates to get into 4WD's to pull their horesboxes.

peasant

Saab Ed wrote: »

I dont think the 4WD thing is a myth.

I think it's a load of bull ...but I'm prepared to concede I was wrong ...once you back it up, that is

peasant

Here's a random list of vehicles (taken from a caravaning magazine) stating their max towing weight according to manufacturers specifications. None of these is 4x4, and none of those weights could be put on a single axle trailer

Saab 9-3 2.0t SportCombi BioPower 1600
Citroën C5 HDi 170 Biturbo 1900
Fiat Croma 1.9 Multijet 16V 1500
Opel Vectra Caravan 1.9 CDTI 1500
Audi A4 Avant 2.0 TDI 1700
Mazda 6 Sport Kombi 1600
Volvo V70 2.0D 1500
Peugeot 308 SW HDi FAP 1650
BMW 318d Touring 1600
Ford Mondeo 2.0 TDCi 1600
VW Passat Variant 2.0 TDI 1800
Mercedes E 200 CDI T 1900

BrianD3

IME most rowing boat trailers are <750 kg laden even if the boat is one of the bigger rowing boats around. I'd estimate the unladen weight of the trailer is generally around 150-250 kg. Trailers should have a plate on them stating the weights and the boat maker should know the weight of his boat. Should...

Anyway it is complete myth that you need a 4wd to tow a twin axle trailer. Anyone (garda or otherwise) who says you do is wrong. However a 4wd can be very useful for launching and recovering boats on steep/slippery slipways. And obviously the higher the towing capcity of a vehicle, the more your vehicle can tow and the more comfortable it'll be towing a light trailer.

Re: licences my interpretation of the law is if your trailer is less than 750 d.g.v.w your car + trailer d.g.v.w limit with a B licence is 4250 kg. If your trailer is >750 kg d.g.v.w the car + trailer d.g.v.w limit is 3500 kg. in both cases the d.g.v.w of the trailer must be less than the unladen weight of the car.

4wds are heavy and have a high d.g.v.w compared to coventional cars. Therefore from a licence point of view you may only be able tow a 750 kg d.g.v.w trailer on a B licence as otherwise you'll exceed 3500 kg. At the same time you can't use a light car because then the d.g.v.w of the trailer will exceed the unladen weight of the car and the towing capacity of the car may not be enough. It's a balancing act.

Note that d.g.v.w = the maximum laden weight of the car/trailer, the maximum weight that the car/trailer COULD be. Not the actual weight at time of towing. Example An Ifor Williams 3 axle plant trailer is ~800 kg unladen. Stick a few blocks in it and lets say it's 900 kg. But that's irrelevant from a licence point of view. What matters is the fact the the d.g.v.w of the trailer is 3500 kg. The same principle applies to car d.g.v.w.

thethedev

4wd drive thing is definietly bull****!!
What about 2wd tractors? 2wd artics?
4wd drive is handy for towing but not neccassary, most jeeps are 2wd on the road anyway.

Del2005

pred racer wrote: »

dont worry about it, Ive been towing trailers since I started driving (20 yrs) with a normal licence. (in fact I didnt even know you were supposed to have a different one till I started coming on here:)) Just remember the important thing to remember about the vehicle is not whether you can tow the trailer... Just make sure you can stop it!

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Drive on! Even if you are stopped the garda is more likely to ask where your going with the boat than if your vehicle and trailer combination is legal. I have seen a Transit, a Land Cruiser and even a Passat towing 18/20ft tandem axle silage trailers. Once you are doing it safely I dont see any garda "doing" you for it.

It's not a very good idea to be giving this advice to anyone. What you are telling them to do is drive outside their licence conditions and break the law. If they where to be involved in a crash their insurance could be voided and they could be liable for all costs.

The Gardai may not be enforcing the B vs EB towing rules but they can if they want to and then some one says that it's OK Garda pred racer and brandon_flowers on boards.ie told me it was OK to break the law.

db330

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Yup, 80kph for a trailer and, in the case of a vehicle towing another vehicle, its 65kph.

:eek: i had no idea there was a speed limit for towing,
i've passed a number of gaurds doing 120kph, never been pulled over though,

Wishbone Ash

Delta Kilo wrote: »

No, I definitely remember hearing that if you are towing a trailer with more than one axle, and a gross weight of more than 750kg, you must have a 4wd jeep or a rwd van

Therein lies the problem. You remember 'hearing' it. I've heard it lots of times too particularly in farming circles but because a man in a pub told you, it doesn't make it the truth. That's the point I was trying to make in the earlier posts. Think about it - some very small vehicles are available in 4WD. Which would you prefer - a 1 tonne 4WD towing vehicle or a 2.5 tonne 2WD towing vehicle?

And how would it be enforced? Can a Garda tell if the 4WD is activated? And what about vehicles where 4WD is activated automatically? In an ordinary road, they would be in 2WD.

4WD may assist towing in difficult terrain but I'm not sure if it would be of any benefit in stopping. It is the ability to stop the trailer which is most important.

Delta Kilo wrote:

That is why caravan companies make a lot of single axle caravans, even though they should really have double axles.

The reason they make single axle caravans is because many campsites won't allow entry to twin axle caravans as they churn up the grass when manoeuvering to park.

Delta Kilo wrote:

As for the guys with the triple axle cattle trailers, I can assure you they dont even know such thing as an EB license even exists!

I agree in about 95% of cases!

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Drive on! ...... .........Once you are doing it safely I dont see any garda "doing" you for it.

db330 wrote: »

i've passed a number of gaurds doing 120kph, never been pulled over though,

It's this type of attitude that places the rest of us in danger. Whether or not the Gardai 'do' you is irrelevant. It's the safety of others which is of paramount importance.

Saab Ed wrote: »

I know a guy with a twin axel cattle trailer myself that was told by the guards not to be pulling it with an Opel Vivaro van. They told him it needed to be 4WD

In my experience, the average Garda has a very limited knowledge of the technical aspects of many Road Traffic legislation. They too apparently believe what they hear in pubs.

snowman707

vinruane wrote: »

The reason I ask this is that I may be towing a trailer that is definitely over the 750kg and its twin axle. I'll be towing it with a jeep so just want to clear up everything, if I have to I'll take the test and get it sorted, but if I dont have to then I won't!

Combined weight of jeep, trailer & cargo must be under 3,500 kgs for a B license, 3500 & above you need EB.

in either case max speed limit in 80 Kmph

vinruane

Thanks for all the info guys, been a great help. Cleared up a number of issues!I think I'm going to need to get the licence as the unladen trailer is approx 850kg and then the laden weight would increase it sufficiently to push me over the 3500kg limit. I'll just get it sorted while I'm off for the summer (ah the life of a studunt! :P)

If anyone here rows, then I hope ye all had a great weekend up north or down in Cork.


Thanks again,

V

Wishbone Ash

vinruane wrote: »

I'm going to need to get the licence ....... ..........I'll just get it sorted while I'm off for the summer

Just bear in mind also that the category EB test comes under the 6 month rule, so if it's your first time applying, you'll have to have had the Learner Permit for six months or more the day you sit the test (but you may apply anytime prior to that).

And I know that you probably don't want to hear this but, when towing the boat on a public road, you'll be legally required to be accompanied by a person who has a full EB Driving Licence and has had it for at least 2 years! :eek:

vinruane

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Just bear in mind also that the category EB test comes under the 6 month rule, so if it's your first time applying, you'll have to have had the Learner Permit for six months or more the day you sit the test

crap, i hadn't thought about that! Does the accompanying driver have to have sat the EB test or just hold that license?

Wishbone Ash

vinruane wrote: »

Does the accompanying driver have to have sat the EB test or just hold that license?

Just to have the licence is sufficient (most older drivers will have it).

vinruane

Thanks for the heads up Wishbone, better get my stuff sorted! Anyone here ever sit the test?

Wishbone Ash

vinruane wrote: »

Anyone here ever sit the test?

It quite a rare test category. I've only known one person to do it.

As well as older drivers getting it automatically with a car test, others like myself, were granted it by default after passing the articulated truck category.

Good luck with whatever you do.

twincamman

must one sit a theory test first

746watts

People! I've read all the posts in this thread and I must say there's a savage lot of wrong information. Some correct info but it gets lost in the pub talk.
To find accurate info on trailers, look up www.drivingtest.ie where it details the criteria for requiring an EB licence.
I have a full EB. (sounds like a disease but it's not)

Victor

Limerick man wrote: »

Fairly sure you need to 4WD for a twin-axle.

There is a difference between what is law and what might be necessary in some situations. I wouldn't like to tow a heavy boat up a steep slipway without a if I can use the word "robust" vehicle.

I remember a lad telling me he stuck a 4 motion badge onto his Passat and he got away with it, lol.

But was the vehicle inspected?

lil-evil

In a similar position a OP...

I have a single axle caravan and am currently looking at a car to pull it with.

Where in law or road reg's does it say you need 4wd or is it "urban myth" that you need 4wd.

Any document for and against would be helpful .......


Currently we are looking at:
Audi A4 2.5tdi Quatro
Audi A4 2.5tdi
Audi A4/ A6 1.9tdi

I would love to get an Audi A4 1.9TDi Quattro in salloon or Avant but impossible to find

budget is 6k btw

cian1500ww

lil-evil wrote: »

In a similar position a OP...

I have a single axle caravan and am currently looking at a car to pull it with.

Where in law or road reg's does it say you need 4wd or is it "urban myth" that you need 4wd.

Any document for and against would be helpful .......


Currently we are looking at:
Audi A4 2.5tdi Quatro
Audi A4 2.5tdi
Audi A4/ A6 1.9tdi

I would love to get an Audi A4 1.9TDi Quattro in salloon or Avant but impossible to find

budget is 6k btw

Towed loads of single axle caravans with a standard 1.9TDi Passat no problem. The extra power in the 2.5 A4 would be brilliant but smaller would do the job

thethedev

As far as I know, a suzuki vitara isn't legally able to tow more than a 2wd transit. Because the legislation constantly states it is illegal to exceed the manufacturers recommended towing weight.

http://leinster4x4.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?1493-Trailer-towing-..-The-law.&highlight=trailer

snowman707

746watts wrote: »

People! I've read all the posts in this thread and I must say there's a savage lot of wrong information. Some correct info but it gets lost in the pub talk.

+1
been towing trailers for 30 years + ,

why do people who know SFA about a matter submit replies,?

dunsandin

Ok, heres one thats not anecdotal. Pal of mine was towing a twin axel trailer with a dumper atop. On the M50. With a Vw transporter. Long story short, he got into speed wobble and wiped out big time. The van, trailer and dumper were write-offs. In the process of doing this he damaged the carriage-way and smashed 40m of crash barrier plus assorted vehicles. His insurance company were not impressed and neither were the owners of that section of the M50. Que big bills, denial of liability from Ins. Co, court cases and the pursual for huge sums of money. The lesson I personally took from all this was don't exceed your max. legal towing weight, because if you, God forbid, have an accident, it will not go well for you. He was bankrupted, incidentally.

Stealer78

The Law as it stands at the min in ireland is:
If you hold a Full category B licence, you may tow a trailer only if:

• the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is 750kg or less, or
• the unladen (empty) weight of your towing vehicle is at least the same as the trailer's design gross vehicle weight, and the combined design gross vehicle weight of the vehicle and trailer is no more than 3,500kg.

When using a car to tow a heavier trailer, you must hold a category EB licence.

Heavier vehicles and trailers
You must hold a Category EC, EC1, ED or ED1 Licence if you want to tow a heavier trailer. These are the licences that entitle you to drive the combinations of the towing vehicles and the trailer.

Hope this is of some help.

-Chris-

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