Slats or straw for cattle housing

F.D

My Dad inherited a farm from his uncle, the yard is very tidy and there is existing straw bedded sheds and and open yard for feeding, with all the slurry going into a dungsted, the problem is with the 16 weeks storage its not possible to keep big numbers of cattle without it getting full very quick especially with the rain, we are in the process of joining reps with the farm and yard been so tidy it leaves us with very little work to do to be compliant except for the slurry storage, we are looking at the options
1.modify the existing shed and put in a covered feed passage( lean to), use the existing straw bedding and leave a run on the inside of the feed rail that is not bedded and scraped out to keep it clean when there eating

2. same as above except put a slatted tank along the feed rail and the cattle go back in and lay on the staw,

option 1 would be cheaper, just concrete the floors and put up a lean to and install the feed rail, plus the shed could be used for something else if things with the cattle dont work out
with option 2 it would be big expense putting in a slatted tank (60 foot, 8 foot deep and what ever width we want) havent got any prices yet

We are finishing beef cattle and over last winter the cattle done well on the straw bedding so we would like to keep some area of bedding for that reason

Any advice or opinions would be welcome

locky76

slats all the way, the increased price will be long forgotten about in 3 years time. a mate of mine went with the scraping option and it is another job that has to be done twice a week.

Bitten & Hisses

Slats here as well. If I'm ever building another cattle shed, it'll have slats where they're feeding and a straw-bedded area to lie down.

fred432

If the cattle are being bedded on straw, it might be a cheaper option to have an automatic scraper at back of the feed area. I am in the same position, having to do something, either slatted tank in an existing shed or open slurry pit. How does straw bedding work for all of you. This winter gone, I used sand which worked well (kept the cattle clean) but it was labour intensive having to top up the sand every day. If you go with slats will you have enough storage for the used straw. If you keep your area draining to the pit to an absolute minimum and make your pit deep enough, a slurry pit can have enough 16 week storage for a large number of cattle.

irish_bob

fred432 wrote: »

If the cattle are being bedded on straw, it might be a cheaper option to have an automatic scraper at back of the feed area. I am in the same position, having to do something, either slatted tank in an existing shed or open slurry pit. How does straw bedding work for all of you. This winter gone, I used sand which worked well (kept the cattle clean) but it was labour intensive having to top up the sand every day. If you go with slats will you have enough storage for the used straw. If you keep your area draining to the pit to an absolute minimum and make your pit deep enough, a slurry pit can have enough 16 week storage for a large number of cattle.

automatic scrapers are imo highly over rated plus they do not work at all well at the feed face , especially if you are feeding baled silage , the cattle will inevitabley pull in a certain amount of silage , this is not such a big deal when the feed face is slatted but if its concreted with a scraper running past , you end up with whatever silage is pulled in being scraped out the door and causing the slurry ( when mixed with silage becomes dung ) wedging in the slats in the receptor tank outside the shed

scrapers are also tempremental buggers , its doesnt take much to throw a spanner in the works with scrapers

F.D

Thanks for the replys,
Irish bob i agree with you about the auto scrapers been tempermental and i have also seen where the silage builds up in front of it and can cause further problems,
Fred. We didn't get on that well with the straw this year i think the big problem was the quality of the straw, i hear some people saying you would get more value out of it if you put it in with a straw chopper, i dont know if its true or not? the biggest problem i actually found was with feeding out in the yard the cattle tended to eat more of the straw bedding when you put it in fresh and not the silage because it was wet or starting to go off etc. hopefully the covered feed area will solve this keeping the silage fresher I seen a friend of mine bedded the cattle on peat, and had them feeding on slats, it seemed to work ok but the cattle looked dirty where it was sticking to them

pakalasa

I just thought I'd throw this into the mix...stand-off pad with slats along the front.
Seen them a lot with pedigree breeders.

F.D

Not to sure about the stand off pads to be honest, how much extra slurry would they generate and how much maintenence would be required? for us i'd say it would cost the same just to concrete the floors in the existing sheds and put a slatted tank and feed area

leitrim lad

we have all dry bedded sheds

50 suckler cows at the minute, had more but cut down a good bit,

and we have a manure pit roofed its a 4bay double and it fills in the winter but we keep piling it up inside it,

our yard is stepped so its on the lower end, about 8 foot deep, 30 foot wide and 50 foor long, with 8x4 treeted timbers ackting as the wall on one side, and they are supported by dipped girders for piers, just slide the planks down into them, with a channel outside the timbers to take the waste water, and that goes in to a tank at the lower end of the pit,

after the first cut every year we empty it with an ex60, the dung is so dry and the straw mix that it crumbles like dust,

i have dug tanks for all the neighbors and the most of the county with the last grant ,and i spread the slurry for them now too but alot of them are complaining about the slurry damaging the ground,and cattle with sore feet,

and we got a grant from the reps a few years ago to knock the old pit and built this new bigger one with the roof, and its a great job,

bedded sheds are alot safer for cows in calf, and we tie a good few aswell before they calf and then let them into the loose shed ,

one end is bedded and a barrier at the other end , so there is no manual work atall just spread the straw for them,

drop the bales in with the tractor, and give the floors a run of the power box once a week ,and leave in a bale of straw and thats it, cattle are as healthy on it,

also the dry dung is very easy on ground, and you could empty the pit with the tractor and box easily if you wanted,without the cost of a contractor or a tanker and ajetator

F.D

hi leitrim lad do you find it gets very dirty where there feeding if theres no slats and do you find with them going to and from the feed rail back to lye down that they are hard on the bedding

reilig

No Offence Leitrim Lad, but

It sounds like an awful lot of work. We keep 70 sucklers. Everything is kept on slats. We have 19 bays currently. We also have 10 calving pens. There is an awful lot to be said for the slats. We kept cows in bedded sheds for years up to the late 90's, but we found that the slats reduced the workload by about 80%. Tieing cows before they calve went out around our place in the 1980's. Its archaic, dangerous and classified by some as cruel. A cow can often throw herself down to calve and hang herself on the chain. I saw it happen on at least 3 occasions (only once on our own farm thank god).

Personally I found that dung/straw mix is much harder on ground than slurry and I was never able to make any use out of it to grow grass. Slurry is handy, I can put it out in march or april and it will have disappeared into the ground by silage time and grow a lot of grass. Dung spread at this time is 100% guaranteed to come up through the silage/hay when you cut and bale it. For this reason, men with dung have to spread it after the first cut. Thus they get no use out of it for growing grass - cattle don't like the grass that it grows in August either and it often leaves a white sole that has to be topped.

Slurry damages ground, I agree with that - but only if you keep dosing it heavily on the same ground every year. Dung will leave ground soft too if you spread it on the same fields every year. Farmers need to learn to use this natural fertilizer properly, and in proper amounts. If they do, they will have no problems - its not the slatted shed that's the problem, its the farmer or contractor spreading it too thick, unwilling to pay for or travel an extra mile to spread on land that hasn't been covered before.

A great solution for land that gets a lot of slurry is to aerate it before the slurry goes out or spread the slurry with an injector system. This will mean that the slurry is absorbed much better.

As for lame cows, I think that you will find that you have more lameness with cows in bedded sheds, standing in their own dung for a week at a time than you would have on proper slats with rubber mats. I certainly noticed the improvement when I built the slatted sheds. Even th bull can be kept on the slats with no lameness.

Finally, on emptying costs, as i tried to point out above, the idea of liquid slurry is that it disappears into the ground quickly and is suitable for spreading on meadows in spring saving you fertilizer. So for example, you can afford to spend €800 agitating and spreading an 8 bay shed that held 30 cows for the winter if it saves you €1000 in fertilizer in comparison to spending €500 getting dung spread in summer after you had to put out €1500 of fertilizer to make the meadow grass grow. Not to mention the money that you would spend on straw.

In short, a properly designed and built slatted unit means that you have no weekly cleaning or bedding of cattle. You don't have to tie cows because you will have calving pens, creep areas and calving gates. Your set up was probably pretty modern when first built, but times change. What you have now is labour intensive. The modern farmer just wants to have to put the silage/hay in front of the cows and let them work away at it. Also for calving he wants a loose pen with safe and proper handling facilities incase the calving cow needs assistance.

leitrim lad wrote: »

we have all dry bedded sheds

50 suckler cows at the minute, had more but cut down a good bit,

and we have a manure pit roofed its a 4bay double and it fills in the winter but we keep piling it up inside it,

our yard is stepped so its on the lower end, about 8 foot deep, 30 foot wide and 50 foor long, with 8x4 treeted timbers ackting as the wall on one side, and they are supported by dipped girders for piers, just slide the planks down into them, with a channel outside the timbers to take the waste water, and that goes in to a tank at the lower end of the pit,

after the first cut every year we empty it with an ex60, the dung is so dry and the straw mix that it crumbles like dust,

i have dug tanks for all the neighbors and the most of the county with the last grant ,and i spread the slurry for them now too but alot of them are complaining about the slurry damaging the ground,and cattle with sore feet,

and we got a grant from the reps a few years ago to knock the old pit and built this new bigger one with the roof, and its a great job,

bedded sheds are alot safer for cows in calf, and we tie a good few aswell before they calf and then let them into the loose shed ,

one end is bedded and a barrier at the other end , so there is no manual work atall just spread the straw for them,

drop the bales in with the tractor, and give the floors a run of the power box once a week ,and leave in a bale of straw and thats it, cattle are as healthy on it,

also the dry dung is very easy on ground, and you could empty the pit with the tractor and box easily if you wanted,without the cost of a contractor or a tanker and ajetator

Ginja Ninja

well.we have all three of these sytems operating on our farm[sort of] as we had 4-5 sheds spread around the yard and about 15 years ago Dad,built a large shed to connect them all.The best and easiest in terms of labour is the slats,:Clean,comfortable(highly recommend putting down the rubber mats) and in my memory we have had no injuries due to slipping or lameness.

And slurry for us anyway,leaves the fields cattle ready (clean) in ~4-5 weeks,

ki

Ginja Ninja: - What are the benifits of rubber mats?

reilig

Rubber Mats
Easier on feet - less lameness
More Comfort - warmer and drier than concrete
More Weight gain because of above conditions.

Also - unlike straw/bedding, mats don't hold moisture. This reduces the spread of sickness or disease.

Bitten & Hisses

Reilig, any idea on what the cost per bay is, assuming a 12'6" slat?

reilig

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Reilig, any idea on what the cost per bay is, assuming a 12'6" slat?

I did mine about 4 years ago with easyfix mats and I fitted them myself and it came in at around €650 per pay when I had the VAT claimed back. I know that the price increased significantly with the FWMS grants in recent years. But I don't have a current figure on it - Didn't do my new shed yet as funds are tight while waiting for the grant to come back.

Maybe someone else on here put them down recently and can give us a better price??????

F.D

Hi Reilig How do you find the mats are wearing after 4 years, also do you find they have got loose or moved under the cattle, How many years do you reckon you'll get out of them? I have also heard from a few people that the cattle are not as clean as the dung cannot go down through the gaps as easy, what have your experiences been?

reilig

F.D wrote: »

Hi Reilig How do you find the mats are wearing after 4 years, also do you find they have got loose or moved under the cattle, How many years do you reckon you'll get out of them? I have also heard from a few people that the cattle are not as clean as the dung cannot go down through the gaps as easy, what have your experiences been?

There is little or no wear on them. Although I have seen mats fitted last year that have better grips on them. None have loosened. None were screwed or glued to slats or held in place by anything other than the wedge that goes between the slats. The mats are as clean as concrete slats because none of the mats are wider than the slat groove. There's another company putting down mats, they come in 8x4 sections, are screwed down and concreted in at the edges and the holes are then cut out of them with a skil saw. Have a neighbour with them and they are crap. They stretch and move and block the grooves. Go for the easyfix slats or any other similar mats that cover 2 slat beams at a time. Get someone to fit them or buy a good sledge hammer and beat them in yourself. They're a 20 year job at least!!!!!!!!

leitrim lad

F.D wrote: »

hi leitrim lad do you find it gets very dirty where there feeding if theres no slats and do you find with them going to and from the feed rail back to lye down that they are hard on the bedding

nope ,run the hyd box on it once a week ,cattle are spotless and so is shed,

same for bedden once a week they normally sh2te inbetween the barrier and the bedden

and thers not alot of work to it once a week with the tractor and box ,the only manual work is cutting the net and wrap off the bales,but if i find yer man that was on ear to the ground i will sort that manual labour out with the purchase of one of his machines for the front loader that holds the wrap and net and cuts the bale

i know land up the country is better than ours in leitrim but slurry is hard on ground no matter what anyone says ,i have 300 acres in kildare real good land and i ruined it by mistake a few years ago with slurry, i normally keep it all in meadow and its normally rock solid ,but i can tellyou after the slurry i sunk the baler real bad in it , slurry kills the worm and the water lies on the surface with no where to go ,only soften whats under it, fair enough it keeps the land clean apart from the dockens but dry manure is hard bet for also keeping ground clean and dry

reilig

leitrim lad wrote: »

i know land up the country is better than ours in leitrim but slurry is hard on ground no matter what anyone says ,i have 300 acres in kildare real good land and i ruined it by mistake a few years ago with slurry, i normally keep it all in meadow and its normally rock solid ,but i can tellyou after the slurry i sunk the baler real bad in it , slurry kills the worm and the water lies on the surface with no where to go ,only soften whats under it, fair enough it keeps the land clean apart from the dockens but dry manure is hard bet for also keeping ground clean and dry

Aeration is your only job to keep the land dry. It will let the air through it and allow the worms to move. A very small investment for what it does for the soil. With 300 acres it would be well worth your while doing it and getting better use from your slurry and fertilizer.

Personally I find dry manure as hard on ground as slurry and as I said above, I have awful trouble with it not disappearing into the ground and coming back up through silage or hay (although I got no hay in recent years)

F.D

I can see there are pros and cons to the different setups now
i agree with leitrim lad on the slurry and worms issue after you spread you see the bird flying around pecking them off so it has to cause damage to the land, I also can Reiligs point that the savings too made from slurry are too good to pass especially if you have your own way of spreading it, and how quick you can make use of the land afterwards, Does the whole aeration thing make that much of a difference especially if your spreading 2000 gallons to the acre in spring i'd reckon your still going to wipe out most of the worm population, maybe i'm wrong. Leitrim lad your lucky to have a covered area to store your dung where it can break down quicker and probably spread a bit finer. We were mainly looking at half slats half straw setup so maybe we will have the best of both worlds if we dont go for slat mats, plus some of the land may need ploughing and reseeding so the dung would be ploughed down for the next the years

buddylove1

F.D wrote: »

I can see there are pros and cons to the different setups now
i agree with leitrim lad on the slurry and worms issue after you spread you see the bird flying around pecking them off so it has to cause damage to the land, I also can Reiligs point that the savings too made from slurry are too good to pass especially if you have your own way of spreading it, and how quick you can make use of the land afterwards, Does the whole aeration thing make that much of a difference especially if your spreading 2000 gallons to the acre in spring i'd reckon your still going to wipe out most of the worm population, maybe i'm wrong. Leitrim lad your lucky to have a covered area to store your dung where it can break down quicker and probably spread a bit finer. We were mainly looking at half slats half straw setup so maybe we will have the best of both worlds if we dont go for slat mats, plus some of the land may need ploughing and reseeding so the dung would be ploughed down for the next the years

Any one use bark mulch?I know a farmer that is using it he says that it lasts him 3 years.after that clean shed and replace with new mulch

theMountain

I have a good lean-to shed 48'X18' with feeding barriers plus a 9' overhang after the barriers. How many cows would I hope to house with a straw bed setup.
Tks

epfff

theMountain wrote: »

I have a good lean-to shed 48'X18' with feeding barriers plus a 9' overhang after the barriers. How many cows would I hope to house with a straw bed setup.
Tks

40plus you will need calfing pens
hope you have acess to cheep straw labour and large dung sted

theMountain

TKs, I have only 14 cows so they should fit handy enough and hopefully bedding straw wont be too expensive.

blue5000

epfff wrote: »

40plus you will need calfing pens
hope you have acess to cheep straw labour and large dung sted

Depending on what part of the country you are in and how early/late you have to house cattle you could muck it straight out on to a field in January after the closed period without using a dung stead.

theMountain wrote: »

TKs, I have only 14 cows so they should fit handy enough and hopefully bedding straw wont be too expensive.

I reckon 5 cows per bay is all you'll fit in a straw bedded shed, so you should have room for 14 in that shed. Is there a concrete floor with raised edges to keep effluent in?

theMountain

I have 8' concrete walls on three sides and 12"x4" timbers on the remaining side between the pillers. Would 1 bale of straw a week be OK or would you think I would need more ?

1chippy

14 would be a max on straw, at that you would be fairly pushing it, unless of course they are dexters, even if they were i doubt they would carry 40.

just do it

Further discussion on this recently in this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056676820&pp=15&page=1

grazeaway

theMountain wrote: »

I have 8' concrete walls on three sides and 12"x4" timbers on the remaining side between the pillers. Would 1 bale of straw a week be OK or would you think I would need more ?

1 bale a week wont do much for you espically if they are in there all the time. just wondering if you have wallls on 3 sides it might be very awkward getting ina out to clean unless you get the gate barriers. Also put the bale at the back of the pen, the cows will more likey lie at the back of the pen. the area right behind the barrier will get mucky from the cows standing there so dont bother throwing good straw here (it'll get pulled down anyway. If your only goign to have about 15 cows then you wont need a feeding barrier all the way accross (2 will be fine). this will allow the 3 bay to be used for extra beeding area/caving pen/creep area.

bbam

Hi..
When we had cows we kept them in a similar set up and to be honest unless its purpose built and well drained with good falls its not easy..
Firstly we found that if you are bedding up to the feeding barrier then it will be shocking mucky at the barrier and you'll be in every 2-3 days each week cleaning the 8 feet behind the barrier.
We had 12 cows and it was taking 3 bales of straw every 2 weeks at a minimum, increasing to 2 bales a week close to calving time to ensure clean ground for a "supprise" calving. At €23 delivered (3 years ago) the straw bill racks up quickly each year, up to €1400 in a long winter being the worst I remember. If they got the chance they would calve right at the feed barrier to be away from the rest of the cows lying back further in the shed.
Don't underestimate the ammount of dung you're producing, great if you have your own loader and spreader... Another bill otherwise.

Our shed opened onto a large yard so we found it best to feed away from the shed and let them have access to a portion of the yard, which requires cleaning every few days to keep right and in frost becomes a pure danger to heavy cows..

We sold the cows a few years ago and while I wouldn't rule out suckling again I wouldn't do it without slats, mats and a creep area with adjoining calving pens..

theMountain

bbam wrote: »

Hi..
When we had cows we kept them in a similar set up and to be honest unless its purpose built and well drained with good falls its not easy..
Firstly we found that if you are bedding up to the feeding barrier then it will be shocking mucky at the barrier and you'll be in every 2-3 days each week cleaning the 8 feet behind the barrier.
We had 12 cows and it was taking 3 bales of straw every 2 weeks at a minimum, increasing to 2 bales a week close to calving time to ensure clean ground for a "supprise" calving. At €23 delivered (3 years ago) the straw bill racks up quickly each year, up to €1400 in a long winter being the worst I remember. If they got the chance they would calve right at the feed barrier to be away from the rest of the cows lying back further in the shed.
Don't underestimate the ammount of dung you're producing, great if you have your own loader and spreader... Another bill otherwise.

Our shed opened onto a large yard so we found it best to feed away from the shed and let them have access to a portion of the yard, which requires cleaning every few days to keep right and in frost becomes a pure danger to heavy cows..
.

Thanks for the replies lads. I also have another shed with calving pins/cameras/etc nearer home that I move the cows into two week prior to calving. My setup is very simular to yours bbam with yard but no dung pit so next summer will tell whether I will be extending the shed and digging a hole for slats in front of the feeding barriers.