Uk introduces scrappage scheme

mike65

Just announced in budget speech - cars over 10 years old, 2000 off against new cars. Limited to a certain time period - not sure of that detail.

Seth Brundle

runs until March 2010
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8012492.stm

Mr.David

Of the £2k, only £1k is from the government the other £1k coming from the manufacturer. As manufacturers were already heavily discounting cars, this will mean that they will rename the discount and the price will only drop by £1k - i.e. the amount the government subsidise.

ardmacha

This will of indirect benefit here. Presently there are few 09 cars being sold, here or in the UK. I am someone who wouldn't buy a new car but prefers one 2-3 years old when the worst of the depreciation is over, I keep this car for 5 years or so. I am aware that in 2011 I won't have much of choice of car to buy. Now at least there will be some in that age group in the UK which could be imported.

Seth Brundle

@ Mr. David Wait and see - the manufacturers are desperate for sales and the UK market is far more transparent than ours!

Darsad

Well if it was not for the myopic Greens we could have had a scrappage scheme here and saved thousands of jobs . But instead the industry here will suffer more as second hand prices in the Uk will drop as a result of their scrappage.

Gregor Samsa

Darsad wrote: »

Well if it was not for the myopic Greens we could have had a scrappage scheme here and saved thousands of jobs.

A scrappage scheme here is not going to save thousands of jobs.

How many people are driving around in ten year old cars that won't buy a brand new one unless they're a couple of grand cheaper? Most people that buy a new car are the kind that change every 2 or 3 years, and no scrappage scheme is going to scrap 3 year old cars.

New car sales from a scrappage scheme here would be minimal.

2 things are stopping people in Ireland from buying cars at present: confidence and credit.

People with cash aren't willing to go and spend it on a car, when they're not sure if they'll still have a job in a few month's time. They're saving that money just in case.

People without cash can't get the loans to buy a car.

L-M

Well, that's alot of possible future classics gone anyway...

Saab Ed

IMO a scrappage scheme will save jobs here. Reason: Most people at the moment are presuming there is better value in the UK. People by and large are like sheep and one follows the other. Now the actual scrappage scheme amount (i.e VRT discount rebate whatever ) might not be the deal clincher but it will create interest which will create footfall which will lead to people seeing the value in showrooms here. And we start all overe again.....

sparklepants

Darsad wrote: »

Well if it was not for the myopic Greens we could have had a scrappage scheme here and saved thousands of jobs .

The UK must be seen to implement a scheme like this because, unlike Ireland, they have a motor industry that needs saving. It would be foolish to believe that thousands of jobs could be saved in Ireland with a similar scheme. The Irish motor trade will recover only after the economy recovers.

But instead the industry here will suffer more as second hand prices in the Uk will drop as a result of their scrappage.

There's no reason why the prices of second-hand cars in the UK should drop as a result of this. If anything it makes 10 year old cars more desireable

Gregor Samsa

Saab Ed wrote: »

Now the actual scrappage scheme amount (i.e VRT discount rebate whatever ) might not be the deal clincher but it will create interest which will create footfall which will lead to people seeing the value in showrooms here. And we start all overe again.....

Some advertising of this value would me more effective, and would not cost the State anything, at a time when public money is tight anyway.

I think hoping that a scrappage scheme (that there would be very little take up on) would somehow have a knock-on effect to stimulate the sales of second hand cars here (people aren't going to the UK to buy new ones), is a little optimistic.

sparklepants

Saab Ed wrote: »

IMO a scrappage scheme will save jobs here. Reason: Most people at the moment are presuming there is better value in the UK.

But there is.
Almost all consumer goods are cheaper in the UK. Transport fuel is the only one that I can think of that isn't.

People by and large are like sheep and one follows the other.

People know a bargain when they see one! Thankfully the the Irish consumer has overcome his sheep-like mentality of accepting whatever price the Irish retailer demands of him, and now shops around for the best value.

I think that Irish retailers will find that the consumer's new habit of looking for value in the UK will be a hard one to break. Once that genie's out of the bottle he's very hard to put back in. They'll come for the prices and stay for the service an' all that...

Saab Ed

:rolleyes: Cars are not cheaper in the UK now

Gregor Samsa

Saab Ed wrote: »

:rolleyes: Cars are not cheaper in the UK now

Well, some are and some aren't. But if you're claiming that on average, there's better value here, (assuming it's true) then it's time to start shouting that out from the rooftops.

25 strategically placed billboards, along with some national press adverts (advertising rates have plummeted recently), showing side by side examples of equivalent cars that are better value here than in the UK, along with a list of advantages to buying here (warranty, less hassle, etc), would go a long way to making people think about

People that are spending are looking for value. In the internet age, it's just as easy for them to look up the price of a car in the UK as one situated here. Sure, there's a misconception that the UK is a nirvana of top spec cars for peanuts, but there's also a lot of dealers here that haven't dropped their prices to meet customer expectations. So the industry either needs to change customer expectations, or meet them. And when they do meet them, they need to get the word out there.

A scrappage scheme isn't going to do any of this.

Mailman

phutyle wrote: »

A scrappage scheme here is not going to save thousands of jobs.
How many people are driving around in ten year old cars that won't buy a brand new one unless they're a couple of grand cheaper?

I'm in a position to buy with cash in the bank and and have a 10 year old car that would qualify. €2200 saving might incentivise me to buy a particular new car that I know is sitting in a showroom less than a mile from where I live.
Scrappage scheme back in '98 incentivised me to buy a new car.

peasant

Mailman wrote: »

I'm in a position to buy with cash in the bank and and have a 10 year old car that would qualify. €2200 saving might incentivise me to buy a particular new car that I know is sitting in a showroom less than a mile from where I live.
Scrappage scheme back in '98 incentivised me to buy a new car.

Yeah, you and about three more people in the whole country


My impression is that most cars 10+ years old out there are either driven by people who couldn't afford anything newer in the first place or recession victims that had to hand back the company car / couldn't afford the finance for the 08 anymore and just had to get some wheels on the cheap.

I would say that potential scrappage scheme customers with actual money to spend are few and far between

Gregor Samsa

Mailman wrote: »

I'm in a position to buy with cash in the bank and and have a 10 year old car that would qualify. €2200 saving might incentivise me to buy a particular new car that I know is sitting in a showroom less than a mile from where I live.
Scrappage scheme back in '98 incentivised me to buy a new car.

Yes, but how many people in your situation are there? Look at the cars on the road - how many are over 10 years old? And of those, how many have the money to buy new? And of those, how many actually would? You're in a very small minority - there's certainly not enough of you to save thousands (or even hundreds, or dare I say tens) of jobs in our motor industry.


Anyway, with cash, there's a good chance that you could knock a good chunk of that €2200 off the list price of a new car (depending on the car, obviously). With a scrappage scheme, your scope for a negotiated cash discount evaporates, just as it would if you were trading in.

mumblin deaf ro

Hopefully this won't cause people to scrap their classic Saab 900s, most of which are for sale for £2K or under. I'm hoping to buy one over the next couple of months if i can find the spec I want.

Mailman

there were customers 10 years ago for the scrappage scheme. there would be customers now if it was offered.

Gregor Samsa

Mailman wrote: »

there were customers 10 years ago for the scrappage scheme. there would be customers now if it was offered.

We're in a very different situation now.

10 years ago, we were coming into the boom times, now we're coming out of them.

10 years ago, there were a lot of old cars on the road, now there are a lot less.

10 years ago, a car from 1988 was seen as technically backward compared to the new cars of 1998. Now there's less of a gap between a current car and one from 1998.

Anyway, 10 years ago, the motor industry didn't need saving, and the scrappage scheme wasn't designed to do such (nor did) a thing.

mike65

When the last scrappage schemes were running the economy was growing, poeple were reasonably confident of work and there were plenty of creaking old dogs on the roads, now people have better cars even if they are oldish and no confidence (or credit). If I was offered 2 grand on my 13 year old car, I'd still have to keep it I'm afraid.

roosterman71

phutyle wrote: »

People with cash aren't willing to go and spend it on a car, when they're not sure if they'll still have a job in a few month's time. They're saving that money just in case.

Thats my situation to a tee

Gregor Samsa

roosterman71 wrote: »

Thats my situation to a tee

Mine too, actually.

McSpud

Mailman wrote: »

I'm in a position to buy with cash in the bank and and have a 10 year old car that would qualify. €2200 saving might incentivise me to buy a particular new car that I know is sitting in a showroom less than a mile from where I live.
Scrappage scheme back in '98 incentivised me to buy a new car.

I am in similar position & will buy when get organised. I will spent 20-25k on 2008 car so 2k scappage won;t make any difference. Even if I was tempted to buy 2009 car at same price 2k would not push me in the door. UK is significantly better value in my price range & I could get Irish car at simialr price.

IMO Irish scrappage scheme would only benefit purchase of the cheaper new cars as the 2k would make up a bigger percentage.

Do we see any indirect benefit of this scheme for importing from the UK?

lifer_sean

phutyle wrote: »

Well, some are and some aren't. But if you're claiming that on average, there's better value here, (assuming it's true) then it's time to start shouting that out from the rooftops.

Several posters, including myself, have been stating here on Boards that at the moment there is better value to be had in Ireland, if you shop around, than in UK, for many popular cars. Any dealers that I know that were importing UK cars for sale have stopped and have switched to buying Irish cars (I havn't bought a UK reg car in over three months, compared with last year when it was the main part of my business).

You say to shout this message from the rooftops. We have been "shouting" this on Boards but no-one wants to listen.

Evertonia

Where are the comparisons then of these supposedly cheaper cars in Ireland with the UK equivalent?

lifer_sean

Evertonia wrote: »

Where are the comparisons then of these supposedly cheaper cars in Ireland with the UK equivalent?

Severals of examples have been posted here in the past. Take any large SUV such as X5 or Volvo XC90. On regular cars, I can give several examples straight off:

I bought 07 Nissan Note in Dublin, Irish car, for basically the euro equivalent of the sterling price, and no VRT due.
Recently I looked at 07 Toyota Auris base model at auction in UK, 14k miles, costing 13,250 when home. Next day I bought a lower mileage, higher spec Irish one in Dublin. Won't comment on what it cost me, but I can take 13,250 for it.

05 / 06 Nissan Almeras - cheaper in Ireland.

Mercedes C-class petrols - cheaper here.

etc etc.

And before anyone comments, these cars are not as cool as the BMW diesels that most of the posters here choose to buy, but all are cars that many people would be quite happy to drive.

pandamoanium

Do you reckon an Irish person could buy a brand new car in the UK and use their 10+ year old car to avail of the scrappage scheme over there?

I've been eyeing up the Fiat Grande Punto for ages now and reckon I could get one for about 8K new, If I could get 2k off that in the scrappage deal then that would be a pretty sweet deal for an 09!

Is there any stipulations that it has to be a UK reg car with valid MOT etc..?

Mailman

rules exclude you. can't be done.

pandamoanium

Awh! Too good to be true then!

Damnit!

Would've been worth a shot!

pandamoanium

I'm not doubting Mailman at all in his ascertain that Irish cars are excluded from this deal, however does anyone have a link to the exact T&C's of this deal?

Just curious to see what exactly it includes/excludes.

Cheers! :pac:

McSpud

pandamoanium wrote: »

I'm not doubting Mailman at all in his ascertain that Irish cars are excluded from this deal, however does anyone have a link to the exact T&C's of this deal?

Just curious to see what exactly it includes/excludes.

Cheers! :pac:

BBC website says you need to prove you have been the owner for last 12 months. Note sure if it says anything about residency.

pandamoanium

Yeah, that's what I read too - just that you needed to prove ownership of the car for the previous 12 months to avoid people buying bangers for £100 especially to get £2k off when they went to buy a new one.

I can't seem to find much more than that though regarding the finer print of the deal, like having a valid MOT etc...

skyhighflyer

These days a 10 year old car should not be considered an 'old car'. I'm looking into buying a 1993 car at the moment and if I buy it it'll be on the presumption that it has a fair few years left in it with regular maintenance. In many other countries, even 'affluent' ones like the USA and much of continental Europe one regularly sees well maintained older cars dating from the 70s and 80s in regular use. I wouldn't be surprised if Ireland had the youngest average age for passenger cars in Europe.

The boom times are gone and they won't be back anytime soon. Knocking €3k off your average €30k family saloon (the price of which is already grossly inflated by European standards due to VRT) isn't going to make suddenly make it 2007 for the car dealers all over again. Those who relied on easy credit don't have access to it anymore and consumer confidence is on the floor so anyone who has cash is holding on to it. Right now, cars have never been cheaper and sales have never been lower so its obvious that price isn't the problem.

What I would like to see done is the introduction of a flat-rate €500 tax rate for large-engined cars of say 8 years or older. Would at least help the dealers shift some of the perfectly serviceable used stock they have lying around in the forecourts.

TomMc

A scrappage scheme is a waste of time now in Ireland. The reasons mentioned above like people worried about job security and so unwilling to spend money or the rest who cannot get credit or cars having a longer lifespan now are the most valid. But what also comes into play is the fact that the celtic tiger era was the first time in this countries history where there was a boom period for the majority, most who only new moderation in all things beforehand. People went mad (consumerism) and while they would like it to continue it cannot, and they now know the costs and have worn that T-shirt. In the celtic tiger era lots of people got new cars, which in times past they could only ever aspire to. So it not of such novelty value and time to move on. Also factor in that lots of people with means have had their private pensions decimated and so aren't going to splash out when their longer term financial security is very much at risk.

Evertonia

I am looking to buy a 2008 VW Golf in the next couple of months. Do you think that uk used cars will go up or down as a result of the scrappage scheme?

TomMc

Any nearly new car is only going one-way in terms of price and that is down. Discounts on brand new cars, dressed up whatever way you like, whether scrappage schemes or manufacturer rebates, will further depreciate the price on existing 1, 2 or 3 year old examples. The times we are in will push prices even further down. You just want Sterling to stay weak if buying in the UK.

Evertonia

Volkswagen UK put up listing price on all its 2008 Golfs by £500 in April!!

sparklepants

Evertonia wrote: »

Volkswagen UK put up listing price on all its 2008 Golfs by £500 in April!!

This will have more to do with the exchange rates than the scrappage scheme. With the weaker pound, it's inevitable that all cars in the UK will get more expensive this year.

Evertonia

As they are targeting UK customers how would exchange rate come into it, as if they put up uk prices they will get less uk sales.

Gregor Samsa

Evertonia wrote: »

As they are targeting UK customers how would exchange rate come into it, as if they put up uk prices they will get less uk sales.

Cars built outside the UK will cost more for the distributors to import with a weaker pound, pushing up prices.

Cars built in the UK still rely on parts imported from abroad, with the same issue.

Evertonia

Why would they drop prices over the last number of months when sterling was even weaker and decide to increase prices now when this has been the stongest month for sterling for a good while.

McSpud

Evertonia wrote: »

Why would they drop prices over the last number of months when sterling was even weaker and decide to increase prices now when this has been the stongest month for sterling for a good while.

They probably initially dropped prices to stimulate demand but now they have to buy new parts to build future cars or import new cars so they are now using the weak exchange rate?

sparklepants

Evertonia wrote: »

As they are targeting UK customers how would exchange rate come into it, as if they put up uk prices they will get less uk sales.

All the major marques have raised their prices in the last few months or are about to imminently, all citing the weak Sterling as the reason.

See here: http://www.parkers.co.uk/News/Motoring-Costs/Manufacturer-price-rises/

For instance Ford say "Over the last 18 months we have seen a 30% decline in the value of the pound against the euro and that’s hurting us and making it more expensive to bring cars and raw materials into the country."

ninty9er

phutyle wrote: »

Cars built outside the UK will cost more for the distributors to import with a weaker pound, pushing up prices.

Cars built in the UK still rely on parts imported from abroad, with the same issue.

6 month hedges on Sterling are running out. Consumer prices in the UK are going to go up 20+% overnight when companies like Tesco and Asda, and similarly UK distributors currency hedges' expire.

Like someone else pointed out the UK has 10,000 if not more people involved in the direct manufacture of cars. We don't. The scrappage scheme is designed to buoy them, not showroom staff.

bromley52

Saab Ed wrote: »

:rolleyes: Cars are not cheaper in the UK now

There is good value in the UK. In march I purchased a 08 Ford Focus Zetec 1.6TDCI, 15533miles, black, in the UK for a total cost (Flights, boat, phone calls etc) of €13,700. I could come no where close to that here.

There is also excellent value to be had here. For example a VW dealer near Cork City sold some 09 Passats 1.9 reduced from 29k to 22k. He was told by VW to move them on.

pog it

Sorry if this has been answered already but I'm new to this thread.
Do cars registered in Ireland (irish reg plates) qualify for this scheme in UK?