black powder

mooneys500

hi all, can anybody tell me if black powder guns are legal in ireland. i was thinking about getting one and want to know what is the legal position regarding the powder and if this and the percussion caps can be got in ireland. i see it is big in the uk but have not found much info for ireland.

thanks,


B

Sparks

Same story as for reloading mooney - the equipment (ie. the firearms) are perfectly legal, there's no prohibition on felt or lead or any of the components except the black powder. That's controlled under the Explosives Act and that's being rewritten this year, and that's where they're planning on setting out the whole reloading/black powder ruleset.

disssco

Its piss easy to make though, not that I'd advocate such an offense.

chem

Hi,

Know afew people with black powder rifles. Most are re-enactors. They have them licenced as shotguns. Strange thing is. They are allowed keep real black powder in there homes! Not sure how much they can have at any one time. They dont use any of the other black powders like pyrodex etc.......

Repo rifles are cheap enough to buy. Dont know how tomorrows laws will effect the sport

Sparks

disssco wrote: »

Its piss easy to make though, not that I'd advocate such an offense.

So are a lot of narcotics, explosive devices, and a host of other things whose ease of construction is not considered to be a defence in a courtroom and for whose construction you could find yourself in a lot of hot water.

chem

Potassium nitrate is classed as an explosive in law here. So having it alone (without permit) is an offence under several Irish Laws

mildot

Sparks wrote: »

Same story as for reloading mooney - the equipment (ie. the firearms) are perfectly legal, there's no prohibition on felt or lead or any of the components except the black powder. That's controlled under the Explosives Act and that's being rewritten this year, and that's where they're planning on setting out the whole reloading/black powder ruleset.

I wouldn't agree with the above, component parts are clearly mentioned in the Definitions and interpretation of what is considered to be ammunition in the Firearms Act 1925. And if it is considered to be ammunition authorization to import is required.


“ammunition” (except where used in relation to a prohibited weapon) means ammunition for a firearm and includes—
(a) grenades, bombs and other similar missiles, whether or not capable of being used with a firearm,
(b) any ingredient or component part of any such ammunition or missile, and

BOBTHESHOOTER

mildot wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with the above, component parts are clearly mentioned in the Definitions and interpretation of what is considered to be ammunition in the Firearms Act 1925. And if it is considered to be ammunition authorization to import is required.


“ammunition” (except where used in relation to a prohibited weapon) means ammunition for a firearm and includes—
(a) grenades, bombs and other similar missiles, whether or not capable of being used with a firearm,
(b) any ingredient or component part of any such ammunition or missile, and

No authorisation needed if you are the holder of a firearms certificate, Section 17 Firearms Acts: States clearly that an importation certificate is not required by the holder of a firearms Certificate for a firearm, "ammunition" was added to Section 17 by amendment in the 2006 CJA. Technically if you have a certificate for a black powder item, you do not require an importation certificate for import of black powder!

The grey area is posession of an explosive, covered by the 1845 acts, however in every piece of legislation published since the 1925 Firearms Acts, when ammunition is mentioned it is immediately referred back to the Firearms Acts.

All of these issues however were sorted under the new section of the CJA 2006 dealing with certification for reloaders, although it is clear it will never now be commenced and those who reload will continue to do so in the twilight zone! Not illegal under the Firearms Acts but regarded as illegal under the Explosives acts to which a firearms certificate holder has no liability when it comes to components of ammunition!!!

kowloon

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote: »

Technically if you have a certificate for a black powder item, you do not require an importation certificate for import of black powder!

I'm a bit slow, explain again.

BOBTHESHOOTER

kowloon wrote: »

I'm a bit slow, explain again.

No worries:

Here it is again:

No authorisation needed if you are the holder of a firearms certificate, Section 17 Firearms Acts: States clearly that an importation certificate is not required by the holder of a firearms Certificate for a firearm, "ammunition" was added to Section 17 by amendment in the 2006 CJA. Technically if you have a certificate for a black powder item, you do not require an importation certificate for import of black powder!

The grey area is posession of an explosive, covered by the 1845 acts, however in every piece of legislation published since the 1925 Firearms Acts, when ammunition is mentioned it is immediately referred back to the Firearms Acts.

All of these issues however were sorted under the new section of the CJA 2006 dealing with certification for reloaders, although it is clear it will never now be commenced and those who reload will continue to do so in the twilight zone! Not illegal under the Firearms Acts but regarded as illegal under the Explosives acts to which a firearms certificate holder has no liability when it comes to components of ammunition!!!

It wasn't me!

Because of the extreme complexity of the laws, could I please advise anybody thinking of going down this path to seek legal advice only from a solicitor or someone comparably qualified. I'm not doubting what's being said (as I don't know enough myself to do so) but due to the potential consequences of incorrect advice being followed, seek legal advice elsewhere.

kowloon

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote: »

No worries:

Here it is again:...

When you put it like that .

Sikamick

Bob do you reload and or shoot black powder legally, if so you might enlighten us as to how one can get the necessary documentation to do so.

Sikamick

BOBTHESHOOTER

Sikamick wrote: »

Bob do you reload and or shoot black powder legally, if so you might enlighten us as to how one can get the necessary documentation to do so.

Sikamick

The answer to both those questions is no I do not. I do not reload and I do not have black powder firearms.

Althought I have looked at the legislation and clearly the legislation as it presently stands facilitates reloading. The difficulty is that it is not clear cut and depends on varying intrepretations of different legislation, firearms v's explosive.

Put simply the new provisions contained in the CJA 2006 facilitate the lawful reloading once a permit has been issued, unfortunately not commenced and until such time as it is commenced then is would be foolish for someone in the South of Ireland to be reloading.

The use of black powder is a completley different issue, this is not reloading, this is where black powder is required for a particular firearm to function. If one has been granted a permit to posess a black powder gun then it is not unreasonable for that person to be permitted to posess black powder, this is were there is a clear application of the C49, a permit issued under the 1845 explosives acts by the superintendent for the personal posession of explosvie being "black powder"

Can I make it any clearer!

BornToKill

Just in case anyone is trying to look it up, I think you probably mean the Explosives Act of 1875. That is still the primary legislation until the new explosives bill is finished and enacted.

Sparks

IRLConor had a link up to it earlier : click here.

Personally, I'd be hesitant about giving anyone advice on this one - the legislation is just too convoluted and arcane, and rarely do ordinary joe soaps wind up benefitting if an act is illegal under one law but legal under another. There are areas of law where it's clear enough that I'd feel happy saying something was definitely the rule - but this isn't one of those areas. Hopefully the rewrite of the 1875 Act that's underway will clarify all this mess...

sonic7

chem wrote: »

Potassium nitrate is classed as an explosive in law here. So having it alone (without permit) is an offence under several Irish Laws

Hi I have bought Potassium nitrate known also as salt peter for corn beef making. I did not need a permit

Grizzly 45

Maybe it is Potassium Chlorate KClO3 that needs the permit?
That is the weedkiller component in the explosive /sugar mixes.

sonic7

Dont know the chemist had a job to get it for me. It took a couple of venison steaks to get job dune.