Acoustic Pickups

Zangetsu

Looking to put a pickup in my tak, was wondering whats involved in installation, does the guitar need to be routed? (:eek:)

How accurate are they at picking up the tone of the guitar? Will it be different?

If someone could recommend a top quality one I'd appreciate it!

Its mainly for studio use, I mainly play with a pick only finger picking the odd time.

Eoin Madsen

For studio use, a microphone or set of microphones is indicated. There are very few scenarios in which recording an acoustic through its pickup is preferable or useful - and most of these would involve special effects.

Acoustic pickups are not at all accurate in reproducing the sound of a guitar. Even the higher end ones with microphone components will give you a highly coloured approximation at best. They are effectively a compromise for live use or other situations where a normal microphone is ineffective or troublesome due to feedback or mobility issues.

Zangetsu

Hmmm **** that then!

Gonna go research some microphones :pac:

Thanks.

Eoin Madsen

I recommend a mix of small and large diaphram condensor mics. I like a 3 mic arrangement, though some would consider it a little decadent. If using more than one mic, it's important to be aware of the phase relationship of the positions of the mics. What kind of money are you spending? Room is a big factor in micing an acoustic too, so don't forget about room treatment if required.

Zangetsu

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

If using more than one mic, it's important to be aware of the phase relationship of the positions of the mics.

I have a belly button.

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

What kind of money are you spending?

Was gonna throw about 200 into a pickup so I guess that would be the price. I already have an sE 2200A large condenser mic that sounds pretty good to my untrained ears so what would ya recommend in a small condenser?

Eoin Madsen wrote: »

Room is a big factor in micing an acoustic too, so don't forget about room treatment if required.

Here's something I've always been curious about... At the moment I'm recording the guitar (with the sE) in a small bedroom thats quite cluttered so I can imagine I'm getting all sorts of wierd and wonderful sounds being bounced around the shop... Bad thing yeah?

Downstairs I have quite an open room with tiles and large glass doors, very reverby in there, is that a good thing for recording acoustic?

/noob

One more thing, any tips on recording guitar and vocals at the same time? /looks at recording forum/ soooo far away :pac:

Dord

Zangetsu wrote: »

I have a belly button.

So do I.

Now, on to the guitar talk... :pac:


You shouldn't need to make much modification to fit a pickup.
Seymour Duncan make one that will fit in the soundhole and you could use an endpin jack with it. It's easily reversable.

Eoin Madsen

Sound will hit two mics at different times depending on the distance of each from the sound source. If, for example, a wave at a given frequency is exactly half a wave later when it hits the second mic, that frequency will undergo destructive interference when the mic signals are mixed, ie the frequency will be reduced or will disappear. It works both ways (you get additive interference on a full wave), and it happens at different times for every frequency in the sound spectrum. So the position of two mics will have a crucial effect on the sound if the mic signals are mixed together. If you have only one sound source, like a guitar, you have a large degree of control over the phase of the mics in post-production so you can be a little more lax about the positioning - as long as the room is fairly dead.

Room treatment is important because sound bouncing back off surfaces in the room represents a secondary sound source which is capable of causing interference in any single mic in real-time - you can never fully correct for this effect when mixing so it's crucial to get it right when you're recording.

What's good or bad in a room is somewhat subjective. Very often a room adds desireable character to the sound. There is a way of thinking that suggests that you should try and dampen everything and get as clean as sound as possible and then add reverbs etc later, but when it comes to stringed instruments, I think a nice room has a lot to recommend it. The strings and the soundboard will resonate differently - you can't reproduce this effect later. What kind of reverbiness is good really comes down to the individual.

Try every room you have available to you and try different places in the rooms and see what you can come up with. Compare them on playback and see what's most immediate and what's easier to work with etc. Even just playing the guitar in every room should give you a strong impression of what you like. Try hanging a few duvets about and see how it changes things. But simple DIY dampening only really works for higher frequencies so (unless you're adding bass traps as well) don't over do it or you'll end up with a very dull sounding recording that still has messy low frequencies. One thing I will say is that tiles are generally quite obnoxious sounding in my experience. Unpleasant high middle frequency interference tends to ensue. The position of both your sound source and your mics with respect to the walls makes important differences so it pays to experiment with positions in the room as well.

I'm a little out of touch with mics in that kind of price range. I got an AKG C1000 for around that many years ago which served me very well for a long time. I suspect you can get something better for the money now though. I'd see what SE have to offer, and don't be afraid of Thomann brand stuff - by all accounts the middle-end mics seems to be great value (I will be flamed for this). The advantage of an AKG or a Neumann or another reliable brand is that you can trust the reputation to a certain extent - but you have to accept also that a good part of your money is going towards the logo. For 200 euros, I wouldn't be thinking brand name.

One more thing, any tips on recording guitar and vocals at the same time? /looks at recording forum/ soooo far away :pac:

It's something I usually avoid unless necessary and/or the environment is very controlled. If you have two simultaneous sound sources into two mics then the ability to correct for phase problems in mixing is effectively gone completely. Very often the voice in the acoustic mic will make a mess of the voice in the voice mic. It becomes difficult to optimise everything. Add this to the fact that vocals are ideally recorded standing up (important for diaphram extension and lung capacity), while acoustic guitars are ideally recorded sitting down (the back of the guitar should be free to resonate, and fretting hand position is generally better) and you end up with a series of compromises which I don't like. If you must, standing is better, add some kind of floating dampener under the vocal mic to add seperation, and always use a pop shield (stretch a pair of tights over a wire hanger). Thanks to the wonders of 3d space (oft forgotten) :pac:, you can increase distance between acoustic mic and voice while keeping the distance between acoustic mic and acoustic, so don't forget to use the space available when playing with positions of mics. A mic can point down or sideways or upwards etc. and will pick up different levels and frequencies from sound sources which are at an angle to it etc.

Above all, don't over-think it. One man's phase problem is another man's perfect room sound.

Zangetsu

Jaysus man thanks a lot, really appreciate the advice... I'll have to read it once or twice more to get my head around all of it but fair play.

I know exactly what I need to do when I get home...

I'd usually be recording the vocals separately but the last song I recorded is an absolute cnut to sing properly without the guitar in my hands, down to rythem of strumming and vocals playing off eachother so much. Guess I'll just learn :P

Again thanks a lot for your time on this one!

Eoin Madsen

Experiment, above all else. There's no absolute right and wrong, and you'll never get exactly what you aim for first time around in any case!

Thinking about it, I'd actually get a second matched large diaphram (the same kind) and start with some stereo recording of the acoustic before I added a small diaphram to the mix.