Official: O'Connell to Lead Lions

toomevara

Brilliant news, congrats to the man...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8007666.stm

louthandproud

toomevara wrote: »

Brilliant news, congrats to the man...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/8007666.stm

Not official yet surely? Congrats to him if it is.

toomevara

louthandproud wrote: »

Not official yet surely? Congrats to him if it is.

Fair enough, 'virtually' official...BBC radio 5 reporting it as a done deal...

sslazio11

toomevara wrote: »

Fair enough, 'virtually' official...BBC radio 5 reporting it as a done deal...

It's a cert so, BBC tend not to run stories without verifying them 100%. Fair play to him, a great honour.

Interyurauldone

Nice one! That's the first win in a 3 leg bet I have going with a few Leinster supporters!

Delighted for the man, he's a great leader and a constant talker. Hopefully he can drive them to a successful tour now.

Hazys

Well done Paul, fully deserved.

I always felt he was a better leader than O'Driscoll and was just unlucky that Brian had cemented his position as captain for Ireland and did a good job and there was never a major reason to make a change.

Amabokke

It will be tough for O'Connell. Lions Assistant coaches are all welsh and it will be a big task of O'connel to convince rest of the Welsh Lions he is better than any of the Welsh second rows. O'Connell had a good 6N at home but going down in SA will be a different story. Alot of pressure so hopefully the Irish and Welsh players can come together and unite as one....otherwise we know what's going to happen.

stephen_n

I think it is a good choice, was always likely as McGeechan has a preference for a forward as captain. Might actually be good for BOD not to have the added pressure of the captaincy too. Great honor for POC and great for Irish rugby that the two main choices were both Irish!

anonymous_joe

Amabokke wrote: »

It will be tough for O'Connell. Lions Assistant coaches are all welsh and it will be a big task of O'connel to convince rest of the Welsh Lions he is better than any of the Welsh second rows. O'Connell had a good 6N at home but going down in SA will be a different story. Alot of pressure so hopefully the Irish and Welsh players can come together and unite as one....otherwise we know what's going to happen.

He's much better than the Welsh second rows, well, much better than Gough, and just better than WJ. But he's the best second row in the 6 Nations.

Was always a done deal in fairness.

louthandproud

Interyurauldone wrote: »

Nice one! That's the first win in a 3 leg bet I have going with a few Leinster supporters!

Other 2 being?

HEC and Magners?

thehighground

Amabokke wrote: »

It will be tough for O'Connell. Lions Assistant coaches are all welsh and it will be a big task of O'connel to convince rest of the Welsh Lions he is better than any of the Welsh second rows. O'Connell had a good 6N at home but going down in SA will be a different story. Alot of pressure so hopefully the Irish and Welsh players can come together and unite as one....otherwise we know what's going to happen.

O'Connell & O'Callaghan have played three games recently against the Welsh/Ospreys. On each occasion, the Munster duo cleared them out. How much more convincing do you think they will need that a POC & DOC combination is better?

BTW, the Lions Assistant coaches are a Kiwi & an Englishman - or do you now think that Gert Smal has become an Irishman?

anonymous_joe

thehighground wrote: »

O'Connell & O'Callaghan have played three games recently against the Welsh/Ospreys. On each occasion, the Munster duo cleared them out. How much more convincing do you think they will need that a POC & DOC combination is better?

BTW, the Lions Assistant coaches are a Kiwi & an Englishman - or do you now think that Gert Smal has become an Irishman?

A Welsh Kiwi and Englishman in fairness.

I think the Lions second row should be POC and DOC, but I reckon Wyn Jones will nip in in front of O'Callaghan, which strikes me as a pity.

buck65

Lions shlions
O Connell can only lose from this

Micky Dolenz

thehighground wrote: »

O'Connell & O'Callaghan have played three games recently against the Welsh/Ospreys. On each occasion, the Munster duo cleared them out. How much more convincing do you think they will need that a POC & DOC combination is better?

+1, How could any other pairing on current form be considered.

Gelio

buck65 wrote: »

Lions shlions
O Connell can only lose from this

Why?

anonymous_joe

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

+1, How could any other pairing on current form be considered.

Because O'Connell and Wyn Jones both do the glamourous stuff while Gough and O'Callaghan do the less visible stuff, so both lose out.

Amabokke

thehighground wrote: »

O'Connell & O'Callaghan have played three games recently against the Welsh/Ospreys. On each occasion, the Munster duo cleared them out. How much more convincing do you think they will need that a POC & DOC combination is better?

BTW, the Lions Assistant coaches are a Kiwi & an Englishman - or do you now think that Gert Smal has become an Irishman?

One good game and they're world beaters huh? :rolleyes:

POC does not have a really good track record in SH rugby with Ireland and previous Lions team so beating the Ospreys in your own backyard hardly makes up for it.

Warren Gatland will be more supportive of his own Welsh players than a full Irish Lions squad so he will have some influence on the Lions selections regardless wether you or any other Irish player believes it should be an Irish second row.

Leave Gert alone, he helped you won the 6N hey...

Micky Dolenz

Amabokke wrote: »

One good game and they're world beaters huh? :rolleyes:

Come on, be fair it is more than one good game, they have been consistent in red and green shirts as the success of both teams have proven.

anonymous_joe

Amabokke wrote: »

One good game and they're world beaters huh? :rolleyes:

POC does not have a really good track record in SH rugby with Ireland and previous Lions team so beating the Ospreys in your own backyard hardly makes up for it.

Warren Gatland will be more supportive of his own Welsh players than a full Irish Lions squad so he will have some influence on the Lions selections regardless wether you or any other Irish player believes it should be an Irish second row.

Leave Gert alone, he helped you won the 6N hey...

I actually reckon O'Connell's about the fifth or sixth best second row in the world, behind Matfield, Botha, Williams, Thorn and maybe just maybe Donncha.

He's not had one good game, he's had a good career.

Micky Dolenz

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I actually reckon O'Connell's about the fifth or sixth best second row in the world, behind Matfield, Botha, Williams, Thorn and maybe just maybe Donncha.

Funny you should say that, I have often thought DOC shades POC.

partyguinness

Personally I have always felt that POC was the most natural and appropriate leader but I honestly thought they would stick with BOD because of his more extensive experience as captain with Leinster, Ireland and the Lions.

I was worried that making POC captain would distract him..why change a winning formula and all that...

Another plus is that it relieves BOD from the burden of captaincy and to concentrate of his general play......

anonymous_joe

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Funny you should say that, I have often thought DOC shades POC.

Yay, I'm not alone. :pac:

partyguinness wrote: »

Personally I have always felt that POC was the most natural and appropriate leader but I honestly thought they would stick with BOD because of his more extensive experience as captain with Leinster, Ireland and the Lions.

I was worried that making POC captain would distract him..why change a winning formula and all that...

Another plus is that it relieves BOD from the burden of captaincy and to concentrate of his general play......

I know! God, the 6 Nations was awful with O'Driscoll burdened by captaincy. He did nothing1

partyguinness

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Yay, I'm not alone. :pac:


I know! God, the 6 Nations was awful with O'Driscoll burdened by captaincy. He did nothing1

I am specifically referring to the extra pressure it entails...

Interestingly he handed over the Leinster captaincy at the start of this season and then proceeded to play his best for Ireland in years...coincidence??..doubt it. So applying the same logic to the Lions....

partyguinness

anonymous_joe wrote: »

I actually reckon O'Connell's about the fifth or sixth best second row in the world, behind Matfield, Botha, Williams, Thorn and maybe just maybe Donncha.

He's not had one good game, he's had a good career.

I think thats Malcolm O'Kelly you are getting mixed up with...;)

anonymous_joe

partyguinness wrote: »

I am specifically referring to the extra pressure it entails...

Interestingly he handed over the Leinster captaincy at the start of this season and then proceeded to play his best for Ireland in years...coincidence??..doubt it. So applying the same logic to the Lions....

Well I know, but I think this is the kind of pressure that he's best at, it's a very intense but short period of time. Without offending the O'Connell lovers, O'Driscoll's proved himself as an international captain, O'Connell hasn't - that doesn't mean he'd be bad at it, but I'd have thought O'Driscoll would make more sense.

Then again, maybe, (if you ignore the fact McGeechan always picks a forward) just maybe they're trying to divert attention from O'Driscoll and try and keep the South Africans from paying attention to him.

partyguinness wrote: »

I think thats Malcolm O'Kelly you are getting mixed up with...;)

Ah píss off, Mal's a legend! :P

Though I'd love a second row to be signed this summer.

partyguinness

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Well I know, but I think this is the kind of pressure that he's best at, it's a very intense but short period of time. Without offending the O'Connell lovers, O'Driscoll's proved himself as an international captain, O'Connell hasn't - that doesn't mean he'd be bad at it, but I'd have thought O'Driscoll would make more sense.

Then again, maybe, (if you ignore the fact McGeechan always picks a forward) just maybe they're trying to divert attention from O'Driscoll and try and keep the South Africans from paying attention to him.



Ah píss off, Mal's a legend! :P

Though I'd love a second row to be signed this summer.

I agree with you...I am surprised with the choice. While I think POC sets a great example from the front and one you would gladly hand your sister over to...I would have stayed with BOD as captain...but at least it frees up BOD and he can now concentrate of continuing his good form...

My concern now is that the captaincy may be too much of a distraction for POC and may take from his general play and he may underperform..but it remains to be seen...

I hope the Tour is better than last time (cld it get worse?)...I was really looking forward to the '05 Tour and it was such a damp squid..

ScrubsfanChris

Correct me if I'm wrong, but historically hasen't McGeechan mostly if not always picked a forward to be the team captain, personally I don't think that it would make a difference if BOD and POC were both on the field.

thomond2006

There are some really negative cynics who have posted their "opinions". Just get behind O' Connell and his team, you little sh!tes.

partyguinness

thomond2006 wrote: »

There are some really negative cynics who have posted their "opinions". Just get behind O' Connell and his team, you little sh!tes.

A person of more sensitive disposition wld have reported that...changing from bastards to ****es...is that better or worse

bleg

fair play to him. he's definitely earned it, delighted it's an irishman and i wish him well.

_blank_

Keep it civil, thanks

Fozzie Bear

anonymous_joe wrote: »

He's not had one good game, he's had a good career.

Eh?? How can you have a good career but not have played a good game? Me thinks you need to watch POC playing but first take off those Leinster coloured glasses!;)

Congrats to POC fully deserved this. A natural leader if ever there was one who leads by example and is an inspiration to those around him. Will be really interesting to see how he gets on leading the other 6N players in red and if he can motivate them.

Podge_irl

Fozzie Bear wrote: »

Eh?? How can you have a good career but not have played a good game? Me thinks you need to watch POC playing but first take off those Leinster coloured glasses!;)

He meant he's not only had one good game but a good career.

thehighground

Amabokke wrote: »

One good game and they're world beaters huh? :rolleyes:

I think in the last two encounters between Ireland & SA, Ireland won. What are you going on about?

POC does not have a really good track record in SH rugby with Ireland and previous Lions team so beating the Ospreys in your own backyard hardly makes up for it.

You've obviously blanked the last two International games out of your mind.

For the record the score was:
04: Ireland 17 12 South Africa (Matfield & Botha both played)
06: Ireland 32 15 South Africa (Only Botha was around for that one).

Warren Gatland will be more supportive of his own Welsh players than a full Irish Lions squad so he will have some influence on the Lions selections regardless wether you or any other Irish player believes it should be an Irish second row.

First of all, who expects a full Irish Lions squad? (I'd expect about 1/4 of the squad. Do you honestly believe Gatland is going to risk his professional reputation for Wales by not selecting the best available players - Geech makes the selections anyway, or so Edwards has said, and I believe him).

Anyway, I'd rate what Gert has to say on the subject - he rates a POC & DOC combination (I doubt if he'd want to risk his reputation on losers - after all he had applied for the Munster job and was persuaded to take the Irish forwards job instead).

Leave Gert alone, he helped you won the 6N hey...

He seems to be an excellent coach and has certainly sorted out the Irish pack. He also seems to be a top bloke as well and he looks to be enjoying himself here.

Daysha

I would have thought BOD would be a shoe-in myself.

O'Driscoll's proven he can play at his best as captain and O'Connell has proved he can play his best without the need to be captain, so why change it?

bleg

Daysha wrote: »

I would have thought BOC would be a shoe-in myself.

a mixture of o driscoll and o connell? that would be some player

thehighground

Daysha wrote: »

I would have thought BOC would be a shoe-in myself.

O'Driscoll's proven he can play at his best as captain and O'Connell has proved he can play his best without the need to be captain, so why change it?

In fairness, it took BOD a while to prove it

This is what Jim Telfer (and a neutral looking on) had to say on the subject:

But a crucial insight into the way head coach Ian McGeechan was thinking was provided by his former Scotland coaching colleague and Lions legend Jim Telfer.

"Ian will go with O'Connell. O'Driscoll is an inspirational player, an outstanding player," said Telfer. "But when I watch Ireland it looks to me as though O'Connell and O'Gara run the team.

"You want somebody to sit there grim-faced and mean. That's what Johnson did."

efb

Brian O'Connell??? Isn't he an RTE reporter?!? Interesting choice?

gilmore

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Funny you should say that, I have often thought DOC shades POC.

Are you off your game? O'Connell has spent his entire career dragging O'Callaghans sorry ass around the rugby pitches of the world. Anytime O'Callaghan takes to the field without O'Connell he has the look of a lost puppy about him. You would think that he would step up to the mark when O'Connell has been injured for Munster, but no, it's left to the completely underrated Mick O'Driscoll to be the dominant second row.

Micky Dolenz

gilmore wrote: »

Are you off your game? O'Connell has spent his entire career dragging O'Callaghans sorry ass around the rugby pitches of the world. Anytime O'Callaghan takes to the field without O'Connell he has the look of a lost puppy about him. You would think that he would step up to the mark when O'Connell has been injured for Munster, but no, it's left to the completely underrated Mick O'Driscoll to be the dominant second row.

Thats extremely disrespectful to a player that has over 50 international caps, has won major tournaments both for provence and country. O Callagahan is a very capable player and on his day has out shone O Connell. Don't get blinded by the hype.

The major differance between the two is maturity and a calm head. Donncha has little of both.

Don't get me wrong O Connell is a mighty warrior and worthy captain but his patner does his own job just as well.

Hazys

efb wrote: »

Brian O'Connell??? Isn't he an RTE reporter?!? Interesting choice?

...but a good one.

Some people will critize his lack of size, speed and experience of playing rugby and the fact hes over 50, but i think his ability diagnose a situation and report it with accuracy, gusto and enthusiaism makes more than a worthy captain for the Lions tour.

Brian O'Connell will lead us to glory down under!!!!

thehighground

gilmore wrote: »

Are you off your game? O'Connell has spent his entire career dragging O'Callaghans sorry ass around the rugby pitches of the world. Anytime O'Callaghan takes to the field without O'Connell he has the look of a lost puppy about him. You would think that he would step up to the mark when O'Connell has been injured for Munster, but no, it's left to the completely underrated Mick O'Driscoll to be the dominant second row.

All his coaches seem to rate DOC above Micko (who I do think is a bit under rated).

DOC really stepped up to the mark when POC missed most of last season through injury in qualifying for the later stages of the Heineken Cup (POC wasn't back until the 6Ns). I seem to remember having an incredible game away in France against CA.

Apart from anything else, Gert Smal, when talking about Paul O'Connell was very quick to point out that POC wouldn't be the player he is without DOC.

toomevara

gilmore wrote: »

Are you off your game? O'Connell has spent his entire career dragging O'Callaghans sorry ass around the rugby pitches of the world.

Don't be a bell, I realise you're new to this forum, but it ain't the done thing to slag off players in that personal and unnecessary manner on here..If you have an issue with the way DOC/POC, or any combination thereof, play...well fine. But do couch it in coherent terms and refer to the rugby, not the man. If you want to do that sort of thing, hit the planet rugby forum...

RuggieBear

in defence of DOC, DOC was the form lock for the last lions. he put POC in the shade during that tour.

POC is a good choice as captain if it is official

[Jackass]

I think it's a good call - McGeehan made no secret of his love for an abrassive forward to lead the team (ala a Martin Johnson) and PO'C is certainly the closest the Lions will have to that.

RE DOC, I think his work ethic is immense and he's a good lineout operator, but can be Flakey and gives away an obscene amount of penalties. Good performer, but POC is certainly a better all round player.

Amabokke

thehighground wrote: »

I think in the last two encounters between Ireland & SA, Ireland won. What are you going on about?

What are you going on about? me not talking about Ire vs SA.

You've obviously blanked the last two International games out of your mind.

For the record the score was:
04: Ireland 17 12 South Africa (Matfield & Botha both played)
06: Ireland 32 15 South Africa (Only Botha was around for that one).

Both games won in Dublin. SA is a different story bud. Ireland lost last two games in SA.

First of all, who expects a full Irish Lions squad?

Have you not been reading through the rugby section in boards lately?

Anyway, I'd rate what Gert has to say on the subject - he rates a POC & DOC combination

Gert is not going to say otherwise and cause controvery.

I did not say POC and DOC is not a good combination. I said I hope that with the selections and selectors in mind that if POC is the captain he could bring the Irish and Welsh camps together as it will be a big task especially since there is a lot of competition for this tour.

7mountpleasant

one of the lads met a fairly hammered contempomi in coppers one night , apparently he described DOC as a journeyman hanging off POC's coattails.

partyguinness

7mountpleasant wrote: »

one of the lads met a fairly hammered contempomi in coppers one night , apparently he described DOC as a journeyman hanging off POC's coattails.

I think the definition of a journeyman is a player who spends his time going around from one mediocre club to another and never winning anything or make any impact on the game...that is hardly an accurate description of DOC..

If anything Contempomi is the journeyman if you compare both players on the teams they have played for and the medals they have won and he is off again in the summer...

Podge_irl

partyguinness wrote: »

If anything Contempomi is the journeyman if you compare both players on the teams they have played for and the medals they have won and he is off again in the summer...

Bronze medal in the WC ain't too shabby. Contempomi and DOC just don't like each other, I'd give very little heed to what either says about the other. DOC is a good player, though I've often thought he played better when POC wasn't playing tbh. He seems to retreat somewhat when POC is there, but he lays the groundwork for POC to be able to do what he does. They work well together.

gilmore

thehighground wrote: »

All his coaches seem to rate DOC above Micko (who I do think is a bit under rated).

DOC really stepped up to the mark when POC missed most of last season through injury in qualifying for the later stages of the Heineken Cup (POC wasn't back until the 6Ns). I seem to remember having an incredible game away in France against CA.

Agreed he played v well in that game but as you say O'Connell was out for the first half of the season and i have to say that it was Mick O'Driscoll who stepped up, not O'Callaghan.

Stick_man

DOC is a fine lock and deserves to travel, I dont think for a second he is in POC's league but he complaments him well. Its the right choice for captain, O Connell can lead from the front. If the Lions are to stand a chance they must match up phyiscally and O Connell can set the tone. Some will say BOD was unlucky to miss out but for me POC was the logical choice.